Overclocking a Northwood.

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by {NcsO}ReichstaG, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hey Guys,
    I was wondering- how far have you been able to overclock your P4 Northwoods? And how do they overclock when compared to Prescott?
    Also, (I know this is the wrong section for this but anyway-) Which motherboard that is 1) fairly inexpensive and 2) supports socket 478 with 800 MHz FSB, DDR 400 and preferably a 875 chipset, memory allows me the most overclocking flexibility? Currently, I have an Intel d865 PERL, but honstly I am bored with it. All it allows me to do is OC by 4% or about 133 Mhz.
     
  2. JoeBoomz

    JoeBoomz n00b

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    Yeah, you can't do so much of the overclocking with Intel boards :)

    ABIT's IC7 is what I'd recommend. If you can spend a bit extra get the IC7-Max3. IT really doesn't get much better than that.

    Most Northwood cores are good to 3.6 on air, but it really depends on how good your chip is. Of course, the more expensive of a chip you buy the faster it'll usually overclock.

    The 2.4c was probably the best overclocker out of the bunch, they would all run 3.0 without complaining and I even saw a few do 3.4 on air. I had a 3.0c on water do 3.9 without much trouble.

    Prescotts overclock pretty good usually, but unless you have adequate airflow over your motherboard you'll be cursing their power requirements. I gave up on and sold my Prescott CPU because my watercooling just didn't cut it because the motherboard started breaking 80 degrees (w00t uGuru!). Now I'm an AMD boy.

    I'd honestly stick with the Northwood though. Clock for clock they're faster than Prescotts, run cooler, and overclock almost as well. I was regretting getting rid of my Northwood when I switched to Prescott.

    I really get a kick out of how Intel's latest Extreme Edition is actually a Northwood :D
     
  3. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    While for the most part I would agree, it might be kinda tough for some ppl to grab a MAX3 these days...as they have been discontinued, and aren't being manufactured anymore. That aside, if someone can pick up a used MAX3 I would recommend going for it, as it is still an excellent board.

    However, it's not without it's faults. While the CPU voltage has a nice limit and is quite stable on this board, the memory needs a little work. The memory voltage itself is stable enough, but don't plan on feeding your ram anymore then 2.8v with this board...unless you're good with a soldering iron. ;) The problem is that the VTT tracking on the board is kinda faulty. The VTT voltage that is fed to the memory is supposed to remain a constant 50% of the actual memory voltage to maintain stability, for example...at 2.8v, your VTT theoretically should be at 1.4v. The problem with the MAX3 is that once you apply 2.9v or anything higher, the VTT drops off, and bottoms out at about 1.26v....leaving you with next to no stability whatsoever. Sadly, the only way to fix this is by means of a very difficult voltmod, which includes soldering electrical components to the motherboard in cramped spaces...and risking the death of the board itself.

    That aside, if you aren't planning to use more then 2.8v then it is a very capable board, but I'm getting mine modded early next year...because I actually want to be able to make use of the 3.2v limit the board provides you with. You could get around not being able to apply more then 2.8v by using the 5:4 or 3:2 memory ratios....essentially downclocking your memory at any given FSB. The calculation to figure out what speed your ram would be at with either ratio is: FSB x 4 / 5 for the 5:4...or FSB x 2 / 3 for the 3:2 ratio.

    There are other boards out there however, the Asus P4C800-E is an excellent board, but is plagued by an even more irritating issue effecting the CPU voltage once you start doing any decent overclocking....and isn't really something you can work around....again.....unless you're willing to voltmod the board.

    What I'd honestly recommend is the DFI Lanparty Pro875B reB if you're looking for a nice, highend s478 mobo that is relatively problem free. The Pro875 is the board I was using before I switched to the MAX3, and I think it'd be perfect for you. The Lanparty does NOT have any quirky voltage issues common to some other s478 boards, and it is a very good overclocker to boot. The only downside to the DFI is that you "only" get a max of 2.9v in the BIOS to apply to your memory, but the 2.9v is fully functional, and is still sufficient for most ppl.

    If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, as I have owned high-end s478 mobos from 3 or 4 different manufacturers...and have seen the pros and cons of each in person.

    That is a rather vague statement, as something like a 3.2C is more then likely gonna hit 3.6GHz before a 2.4C or 2.6C is. The problem with assuming clock rates on something like a general Northwood cpu is that there are far to many factors that play into things. If you ended up with a decent stepping on your cpu and it was of a certain revision there are general clock rates assumptions that you COULD make....but it'd still be up in the air. Something in the range of 240-250fsb is usually a fairly decent spot to aim for with most northwoods. The reason I say "most" is because 250'd put a 3.2E at 4GHz....and not THAT many ppl hit clocks like that on air. As you can see, this isnt really something you can really predict the outcome of, and it needs to be taken on a case by case basis. On decent watercooling I don't see 250fsb and up being a problem for many Northwoods, short of POSSIBLY a 3.0 or 3.2E....but again, you never know...because that's assuming your memory and motherboard are both gonna be able to take you high enough.

    Here's a good example....MOST 2.4C's hit 3GHz...but not ALL did, just like anything else there were duds...and some ppl never hit that magic "3" mark. The 2.4C was/is one of those "oddities" that if given some half decent cooling and was of a good stepping, would frequently hit and clear 3GHz (250fsb) with ease.....but sadly there are fewer and fewer chips like that these days on the Intel front.

    Honestly, you can try overclocking a higher end Prescott on air cooling....but to keep things cool you are gonna have a fairly loud/irritating computer to be around. At the same clocks a Prescott will put out a great deal more heat then a Northwood of the same clock.....my 2.8C stock put outa bout 80W of heat......whereas a 2.8E (Prescott) puts out just over 100W. It's not only the CPU temp, but the fact that a lot of s478 boards out there are not designed to handle the demands of the Prescotts in terms of power.....and either start to overheat and cave.....or simply do not offer much overclocking, due to the circuitry on the board not being able to "keep up" for the most part.

    A good example of this is my previous DFI mobo. The reason I actually switched to the MAX3 is because the DFI Lanparty Pro875B is one of those boards that is "Prescott ready" but not necessarily the most capable prescott overclocker out there.

    For most ppl it is easier to stick with Northwoods these days if they're planning on doing any decent amounts of overclocking.

    I agree, on all but one point. Clock for clock if you're NOT overclocking the Prescotts are a tad slower then the Northwoods in most applications/games.....but if you're going to be doing a fair bit of overclocking, the Prescott can quite easily become the faster of the two. Once you hit and clear the 3.6GHz mark the longer pipeline in the Prescott (which is what's mainly slowing it down...but "needed" to hit higher clocks) starts to become less of a "bottleneck"....and above 3.6GHz the Prescott does start to pull ahead. However, because not ALL ppl are going to be hitting clocks higher then 3.6GHz, it is still usually easier to stick with a Northwood, as they are cooler running, and you have to go a bit beyond 3.6GHz for the Prescott to REALLY start to pull away.

    I'm not really regretting switching from my 2.8C that did 3.8GHz on water to get this 3.4E.....as I am so far at 4.29GHz.....about a 900MHz overclock, which ain't bad. The interesting part is that even though I am running a pretty good watercooling setup, the 3.4E at these clocks (and running at about 1.5v) is hitting 40-50C during benchmarking/gaming.....and even though that is still a fairly low temp for an overclocked Prescott to this extent.....it's still to warm for it to maintain any higher clocks then 4.29GHz. At this point I know it's the temps holding me back and I'm going to be taking one step further and will be picking up a Vapochill LS early next year, to hold the 3.4E somewhere between -20C and -40C, as opposed to 40C - 50C....which will actually let me find out what the chip's capable of. ;)

    Seeing as it's this early in the morning and I'm bored out of my mind I'd hope I have been of some help, but feel free to ask anymore questions. :cool:
     
  4. Parabellum

    Parabellum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow Cornelious! This is one of the longest helpful post I have ever seen :D . Nice job.

    Para
     
  5. acascianelli

    acascianelli [H]ardness Supreme

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    2.4c@3.4 here, watercooled with a koolance.
     
  6. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Gettin' back to my root.....as you might say.

    Those of you who have been around me long enough will recognize it. :p
     
  7. JoeBoomz

    JoeBoomz n00b

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    Right you are, I ended up running my 540 at 3.7 Ghz aircooled just to keep the rest of the motherboard cool enough to be stable. I just couldn't sustain the performance on water because the power temps went through the roof (was using an ABIT AS8). You're probably having better luck because you're using a MAX3 and it cools the board separately for you.

    One thing I also noticed was my Vantec Stealth 420W PSU was cooling itself a lot more with the Prescott than with my current AMD rig. Now I can't even hear its fans, whereas when using the Prescott watercooled the PSU fans would constantly be ramping up to full speed to cool itself.

    Put it stone, people, he's got it bang on.

    I'm looking forward to hearing your results!

    The main reason I switched to AMD was because for a few hundred less I'm still getting the same performance (actually better now that I've overclocked) than the my old Intel.

    I REALLY do miss RAM/FSB ratios that actually make sense though <sigh> I just can't get used to AMD's CPU/11 setup here. :D
     
  8. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    w0w, cornelious0_0, Thanks for the input and the time you put into it. :D
     
  9. jnex26

    jnex26 2[H]4U

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    I Also recommend a DFI Lanparty 875 Pro. Quite happily hit 3.5Ghz with my 2.8c with a stock intel heatsink and a Fan Heatsink on my northbrige.

    AS for over clocking, your not going to beat the lanpartys over clocking features. CMOS reloaded is possibly one of the best features i've ever seen on a BIOS. but keeping in mind that as I've found its much more improtant to cool the Northbridge when overclocking the the system.
     
  10. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yea, I was looking at the DFI Lanparty boards and they are nice, but a little pricey :(
     
  11. kubalaTF

    kubalaTF Limp Gawd

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    So far I've gotten my 3.0C to 3.45 but I get heat problems at load. I think this is my motherboards faulty sensor, but untill I get a diffrent temp monitor this is where my OC adventure ends. for now.
     
  12. SEALTeamSix

    SEALTeamSix 2[H]4U

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    My 2.4C did 3.2GHz stable on an IC-7. For my money, I'd get a 2.4 Northwood.

    -SEAL
     
  13. BillLeeLee

    BillLeeLee [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I've gotten my 2.4C to 3.3 on stock voltage on an Abit IC7-G. It's a nice board, but the heatsink fan sucks and died on me recently, making this annoying high pitched whirring sound. I just unplugged the fan and the system's been running much quieter.
     
  14. MemoryInAGarden

    MemoryInAGarden 2[H]4U

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    Just for the record, there are a lot of 2.4C out there above 3.3-3.4 on air. I've seen quite a few at 3.6 on air.
     
  15. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It is quite a freakishly nice chip......that much I'll give it. .;)

    You EASILY get your money's worth though.....the mobo box is about twice the size of any others I have ever seen....as its packed full of extra goodies. One of the extras that I was most pleased with was the carrying harness for my case...a nice value in itself.

    For northwood overclocking I can't recommend any board other then the DFI Lanparty Pro875B revB after having a chance to use nearly all the other available high end boards out there....but when it comes to Prescotts the MAX3 reins supreme. :D
     
  16. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not meaning to jack this guy's thread, but I was wondering what you thought of the 875P-T. I really like that it takes socket 775, but keeps the 875 chipset so I can use my BH-5 and AGP videocard. I want to put a 3.2 or 3.4 in there with hopes of getting 4GHz on WC.
     
  17. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    My 3.0C went to 3.55GHz and NO higher. My Prescott on the other hand did 3.6+ Although I did have trouble stabalizing it, I think that was more of my cooling and memory than anything holding me back there.

    Prescott seems to OC better, but you've got to take more extreme cooling measures to make it work.
     
  18. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    EnderW, the DFI 875P-T is a VERY capable board, and if you wanna try out the new processors but still keep your BH5 and AGP card then it's just the board for you.

    Hehe, bingo. :D
     
  19. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I just looked at your sig dude. WTF are you using to cool your processor?
     
  20. kubalaTF

    kubalaTF Limp Gawd

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    No shit, that's some crazy stuff. (please say air, please say air, please say air)
     
  21. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Prescott at 4.29GHz on air, lol, that's funny.

    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=815603
     
  22. kubalaTF

    kubalaTF Limp Gawd

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    so there's still hope for me, alright!
     
  23. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Hehe, not quite air on this puppy.....DangerDen TDX waterblock in the loop by itself right now running "off of" a DTek Pro Heatercore /w a 120x25mm aluminum fan @ 80cfm sucking off it.

    At these clocks at 1.55v or so the 3.4E is getting quite warm.....and hitting up into the mid 40's under load. This would normally be a good temp for a cpu of this clock/votlage....but it's still to warm to get me running any faster then 4.3GHz ATM. It is comforting to know that it's just temps holding me back though.....makes me want to make the switch to a Phase Change setup that much more.....and then I could leave my h2O dedicated to my NB and video card. :cool:
     
  24. kubalaTF

    kubalaTF Limp Gawd

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    I just noticed your air sarcasm 4 hours later. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box. I want water so bad, but I'm poor after spending 1800 on this thing. If only I could go crazy, I have so many ideas I want to try.
     
  25. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And I'm also still being quite conservative with my computer, based on what I'd want to do.....damnit, I hate being 19...need a better job.

    I might be able to go from this 30hour/week $7 job to a 40hour/week $10 job early next year....that'd mean about $1600 CDN coming in every month as opposed to the $700 I'm getting now.....and I'm SURE I could find a use for some of that extra cash. :D
     
  26. kubalaTF

    kubalaTF Limp Gawd

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    I get about $3k a month now, but I'm saving most of that for school. Higher education sure ain't cheap. I'm probably going to try to build myself a CS server in there somewhere too. Non of ya'll might know how to do that sort of thing would you?
     
  27. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I haven't even come to the point where I've been inclined to put togethor a file server for my two home computers....so you better look somewhere else for advice on that. :p
     
  28. Slava

    Slava 2[H]4U

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    My 2.4C running at 3.4ghz all on air. Stock voltage on everything. Been running it since early 2003.
     
  29. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I wish I would have jumped on the P4 bandwagon right about then....sadly I was still stuck on my AXP for awhile after the "C" line hit the market.
     
  30. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Does the 865 PE chipset perform alot worse than the D75 PBZ?

    Edit- I meant D875 PBZ..
     
  31. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm going to assume you meant to say 875P or something similar..... :p

    If you're looking at/talking about stock, out of the box performance, then the two chipsets really aren't set THAT far apart. However, once someone is getting really into overclocking you more or less want to avoid the i865 boards. Not that they're horrible boards or anything, but the highend i875 mobo's out there simply ARE (for the most part) much more capable in the overclocking department, and tend to be a little more "Prescott friendly" if that's the route you're taking. ;)
     
  32. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am not really talking about the Prescott... I meant their out of the box performance and overclocking capability.
     
  33. 99rollaguy

    99rollaguy Gawd

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    my 2.4c has seen 301.5fsb on stock air. I think that's the limit for this little guy, though. I still need to get a better heatsink..xp-90/xp-120..one of the two. I just hate spending money, even if it's a measely 75 or so on a nice heatsink and fan.
     
  34. rusek

    rusek Limp Gawd

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    On my 2.8 I've reached 3.5 on Air.
     
  35. cornelious0_0

    cornelious0_0 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I know that....and I address both points, I just had that pop into my head and kept typing. ;)

    Wow, different points of view, I'd be excited to spend $75 on a new HSF if I had a chip hitting 300fsb like that...such good fun. :D

    As did I, but I just got tired of trying out different HSF's that essentially did the same job...so I decided to "take the plunge". :p
     
  36. n64man120

    n64man120 2[H]4U

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    :( My 2.8 is only stable at 3.22 curently. Maybe my XP-120 for christmas will upp that a bit.
     
  37. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have a 3.2 C Ghz P4. How much OC would I need to do to see "real world" performance? Right now I am oc it by 4% so its at 3.3 Ghz and as you might expect I see no difference. :(
    Would I start seeing a difference at 3.6 Ghz ?
     
  38. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    After about 3.4GHz the Northwood doesn't scale as well as the Prescott. Still at 3.6GHz it should perform really well. I'd recommend giving it a try.
     
  39. SEALTeamSix

    SEALTeamSix 2[H]4U

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    You might as well go for a cheap H2O setup at that price... dangerden maze4 block ($35), go to a pet store for a pump ($20), and to local auto parts store for a heatercore, and $5 for misc tubing and clamps from home depot. Total would be around $100, and would be cooler and quieter.

    -SEAL
     
  40. {NcsO}ReichstaG

    {NcsO}ReichstaG [H]ard|Gawd

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    I can't give it a try with my Intel D865 PERL motherboard :(