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Origin PC drops AMD graphics options

Unknown-One said:
They switched to lead-free solder, ergo they had to deal with the issues inherent to lead-free solder. What part of this isn't clear? :confused:

There are reports on this very forum of AMD cards being fixed by re-flowing them. A card that goes from perfect, to broken after extended use (and after lots of thermal cycling), that is then fixed by re-flow is pretty much without a doubt suffering from microfractures.

The fact that AMD delayed lead-free parts from public consumption until well after both Intel and Nvidia had already launched lead-free parts makes it pretty clear they didn't think they were ready yet.
Click to expand...

So basically you just said, "blah blah blah, I don't understand the technical details of bumpgate so I will just make up what happened."
 
shaolin95 said:
So far this takes the crown as most nonsense comment on this thread! Good job mate.
Seriously...what are you even saying...is not rocket science to install a video card so dont act like you are coding your own drivers to make it work or something lol
Click to expand...

I am suggesting that AMD has been improving their drivers in the past year or so. Also, my theory is that AMD drivers have been worse than Nvidia historically. I base that theory on the following survey:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1683315&highlight=

With about 200 responses, this survey confirmed a significant advantage to Nvidia drivers.

But perhaps I am wrong about AMD improving their drivers recently. I don't have any stats to back that up. Somebody else in this thread pointed out that AMD goes through cycles of improving and then declining in the quality of their drivers. Perhaps Origin PC can see a long term trend that is more meaningful (that is, over longer periods of time, nvidia drivers provide a better user experience).

The second part of my statement reflects the fact that some gamers don't want to tinker with their computers to get games to work. Since nvidia gpus tend to work better due to better driver quality (not something that can be proven 100%, but indeed the stats support this statement), these gamers would be better served by using nvidia gpus. Or consoles since they tend to "just work".

Fyi, my sig is updated, I do indeed run a Radeon 7870, and the prior gpus in my desktop were a 6870 and before that a 4890. Most of the folks here at hardocp are tech savvy and can deal with the driver issues from either company.
 
When I first read the thread title I thought they were talking about the Origin software.

Now I realize they are just talking about some tiny PC vendor that no one cares about.

Why is this even newsworthy? What am I missing?
 
Didn't all the lastest Macs drop AMD as well? Valve doesn't want to use them. Maybe it's just a trend.
 
PRIME1 said:
Didn't all the lastest Macs drop AMD as well? Valve doesn't want to use them. Maybe it's just a trend.
Click to expand...

They didn't have anything AMD to start with, but if you just trying to get some flames going good for you ...
 
The GPU makers fight for position in mac books just like they do for consoles.
 
I was asked to post this here in response to the Origin and AMD situation.

This post is by Origin Richard, one of the owners of Origin,

"Hey Guys,

The decision to take AMD GPU’s off the web was made based on support. More Specifically, support from AMD to Origin, and Origin to our customers.
Take their last chipset announcement for example. It was another hardware representative that informed us of the new Hawaii chipset. AMD never told us anything about it, nor shared a road map outlining its future integration. When we did get with our AMD representative, we were told that there was a new chipset launching, and we could watch the event live and get answers to our questions. We also asked for samples to start our research and development process, something that is standard in the industry for bleeding edge integrators, and we were met with resistance there. How can we ask questions at the event live, if we haven't had a chance to R & D the reference boards? When they did agree to send samples it was for 2 R9 270’s, rather than the R9 280's or 290's that we would be more likely to offer. We are performance based and focus on high end systems. Moreover, this wasn’t the first time AMD had done something like this to us. Support from AMD to Origin hasn’t been where it should be or up to par like we get from other vendors. In my opinion it's due to our size. We don’t move enough AMD product for them to worry about us. You would think they would work with us to help grow the Origin- AMD business relationship.
With regard to supporting Origin customers who chose AMD product, it’s been an uphill battle. ”Primarily the overall issues have been stability of the cards, overheating, performance, scaling, and the amount of time to receive new drivers on both desktop and mobile GPUs”.
Those 2 issues, combined with the very low percentage of Radeon cards that we sell, it didn’t make sense to continue offering AMD GPU’s. The way they treated Origin during the announcement of the Hawaii GPU showed AMD didn’t care for Origin's business relationship. In effect, AMD dropped us.
As far as Nvidia paying Origin to do it, that simply didn’t happen. Nvidia doesn’t make enough in sales from Origin PC to justify the allegation. The numbers aren’t there for Nvidia to come close to six figures, (or any amount) the basic math shows that. Without giving away trade secrets, Nvidia doesn't make the cards, they make the GPUs. So every time Manufacturer X sells a video card, Nvidia makes a small percentage. If you multiply that number by how many systems we sell per year, the allegations simply don't add up.
Conspiracy is exciting, and everyone loves controversy. The reality is, it's nothing that exciting. We feel AMD left us hanging on both sides of support so we reacted. If and when things change and we feel we can offer AMD and provide systems to our customers that will provide the best overall experience we will. We don’t have brand loyalty. We have customer loyalty.


Richard"


To read the whole thread, here is the link.

http://niche.originpc.com/showthread.php?t=6658
 
LordEC911 said:
So basically you just said, "blah blah blah, I don't understand the technical details of bumpgate so I will just make up what happened."
Click to expand...
Uh, no... the fact that AMD's hardware still passes ROHS certification proves that they switched to lead-free solder.

Ergo, they had to resolve lead-free solder's issues with heat cycling, just like all other major chipmakers. Again, what about this are you not getting?
At the very least, they waited for someone else to fix it, THEN implemented it (as I mentioned previously, out of AMD, Intel, and Nvidia, AMD was the last to switch to lead-free).

And then there are the reports on these forums of AMD cards breaking in exactly the same way as their Nvidia counterparts (and re-flowing being the solution in both cases). This doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together. The new ROHS requirements have not been entirely kind to anyone's component longevity, and nobody had a miracle solution out-the-gate...
 
Last edited:
EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
I was asked to post this here in response to the Origin and AMD situation.

This post is by Origin Richard, one of the owners of Origin,

"Hey Guys,

The decision to take AMD GPU’s off the web was made based on support. More Specifically, support from AMD to Origin, and Origin to our customers.
Take their last chipset announcement for example. It was another hardware representative that informed us of the new Hawaii chipset. AMD never told us anything about it, nor shared a road map outlining its future integration. When we did get with our AMD representative, we were told that there was a new chipset launching, and we could watch the event live and get answers to our questions. We also asked for samples to start our research and development process, something that is standard in the industry for bleeding edge integrators, and we were met with resistance there. How can we ask questions at the event live, if we haven't had a chance to R & D the reference boards? When they did agree to send samples it was for 2 R9 270’s, rather than the R9 280's or 290's that we would be more likely to offer. We are performance based and focus on high end systems. Moreover, this wasn’t the first time AMD had done something like this to us. Support from AMD to Origin hasn’t been where it should be or up to par like we get from other vendors. In my opinion it's due to our size. We don’t move enough AMD product for them to worry about us. You would think they would work with us to help grow the Origin- AMD business relationship.
With regard to supporting Origin customers who chose AMD product, it’s been an uphill battle. ”Primarily the overall issues have been stability of the cards, overheating, performance, scaling, and the amount of time to receive new drivers on both desktop and mobile GPUs”.
Those 2 issues, combined with the very low percentage of Radeon cards that we sell, it didn’t make sense to continue offering AMD GPU’s. The way they treated Origin during the announcement of the Hawaii GPU showed AMD didn’t care for Origin's business relationship. In effect, AMD dropped us.
As far as Nvidia paying Origin to do it, that simply didn’t happen. Nvidia doesn’t make enough in sales from Origin PC to justify the allegation. The numbers aren’t there for Nvidia to come close to six figures, (or any amount) the basic math shows that. Without giving away trade secrets, Nvidia doesn't make the cards, they make the GPUs. So every time Manufacturer X sells a video card, Nvidia makes a small percentage. If you multiply that number by how many systems we sell per year, the allegations simply don't add up.
Conspiracy is exciting, and everyone loves controversy. The reality is, it's nothing that exciting. We feel AMD left us hanging on both sides of support so we reacted. If and when things change and we feel we can offer AMD and provide systems to our customers that will provide the best overall experience we will. We don’t have brand loyalty. We have customer loyalty.


Richard"


To read the whole thread, here is the link.

http://niche.originpc.com/showthread.php?t=6658
Click to expand...

This just screams of being butthurt over not being treated special...guess what, you don't deal in big enough volumes to warrant it, so your not. If you sold so few AMD cards then why would it matter either way?
 
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pcjunkie said:
This just screams being butthurt over not being treated special...guess what, you don't deal in gig enough volumes to warrant it, so your not. If you sold so few AMD cards then why would it matter either way?
Click to expand...

Exactly. I highly doubt they move any kind of volume that would warrant them getting advance units for their "R&D process". Really? I'd love to see what a small boutique PC builder's "R&D" department looks like. Fred in the back room playing Crysis 3?

And I also believe in Occam's Razor; they got money from Nvidia to dump AMD. Fine. At the end of the day, I'm not even sure why this is news; never heard of these guys and will probably never care about them after this thread dies out.
 
Unknown-One said:
A corporate conspiracy and bribery is simpler than dropping them due to complaints? :confused:
Click to expand...

the very low percentage of Radeon cards that we sell
Click to expand...

That would make sense if they actually sold enough to be swamped with complaints. Also, that sounds like an after thought to the real issue of not feeling special enough. :rolleyes:
 
Unknown-One said:
A corporate conspiracy and bribery is simpler than dropping them due to complaints? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes, it's simpler to link a press release that they're partnering with Nvidia only a few days ago to a press release that they're dropping AMD than anything else. Money talks.
 
pcjunkie said:
This just screams of being butthurt over not being treated special...guess what, you don't deal in big enough volumes to warrant it, so your not. If you sold so few AMD cards then why would it matter either way?
Click to expand...


You nailed it.

Put a fork in this story, it's done.
 
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TwistedAegis said:
Exactly. I highly doubt they move any kind of volume that would warrant them getting advance units for their "R&D process". Really? I'd love to see what a small boutique PC builder's "R&D" department looks like. Fred in the back room playing Crysis 3?

And I also believe in Occam's Razor; they got money from Nvidia to dump AMD. Fine. At the end of the day, I'm not even sure why this is news; never heard of these guys and will probably never care about them after this thread dies out.
Click to expand...

Indeed...

Origin is saying that because they source their Nvidia cards from an OEM, Nvidia doesn't make any money from them. They also say AMD doesn't provide them with any support in terms of test products. Shouldn't Origin be complaining to their AMD OEM source about not receiving test products and product failure rates? What does AMD have to do with (possibly) poorly specced OEM products?

Not offering AMD GPU products is one thing, making a public display announcing you are now an Nvidia-only shop is completely another.

"We don't have brand loyalty. We have customer loyalty" - Not if your customer wishes to purchase an AMD GPU. You are a boutique computer assembler... if the customer asks for something, you should provide it.
 
JohnnyH24 said:
"We don't have brand loyalty. We have customer loyalty" - Not if your customer wishes to purchase an AMD GPU. You are a boutique computer assembler... if the customer asks for something, you should provide it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. They are limiting their own market. If I have the money to buy the exact system I want, you either can provide it or you can't. If I'm dropping 5k on the kinds of systems they build and I hear "I'm sorry, we don't offer that, how about this instead?", I'm taking my money to another company who can provide what I want.

On another note, why does this even matter? This isn't [L]imp forum we are all big boys and girls who don't need boutiques to build our systems for us.
 
First, why does this matter. Origin is a private business they can do what they want, when they want, with whatever they want.

Second, I do see their thinly veiled point......if AMD won't give you product to test in the systems you build, and then your customers bitch over lack of support after the sale, especially as it pertains to AMD......then bye,bye.

I agree with what someone said above.....maybe Origin doesn't use much AMD product to begin with? so they got no favor from AMD.

I'm sure AMD isn't losing any sleep over this, nor is NVidia dancing in the street.

I have the suspicion it's about money somewhere.....or Origin just likes nvidia.
 
Michaelius said:
Yep I'm always laughing when someone takes semiaccurate seriously :D
Click to expand...

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/

While SemiAccurate is not up on the nuances of antitrust law, from our perspective this looks to be both blatantly illegal and falls afoul of a whole mess of antitrust rules. While this is only our opinion, sources high up at Nvidia are saying the Nvidia Board of Directors agreed with our assessment. In fact our sources told SemiAccurate that earlier today the board called a one Jen-Hsun Huang about the topic, SEC regulations, and ethical corporate behavior, and “reamed him a new one over Tier 0“. I guess the board doesn’t like it when the leadership ethics of their company are exposed for what they really are.
Click to expand...

Keep on laughing , seems that the program has been terminated ....
 
magoo said:
First, why does this matter. Origin is a private business they can do what they want, when they want, with whatever they want.

Second, I do see their thinly veiled point......if AMD won't give you product to test in the systems you build, and then your customers bitch over lack of support after the sale, especially as it pertains to AMD......then bye,bye.

I agree with what someone said above.....maybe Origin doesn't use much AMD product to begin with? so they got no favor from AMD.

I'm sure AMD isn't losing any sleep over this, nor is NVidia dancing in the street.

I have the suspicion it's about money somewhere.....or Origin just likes nvidia.
Click to expand...

The problem is it is only the GPU. It matters because if they wanted to not sell AMD GPU why make it public you can show it on your website and your customers will either keep buying or find another place to spend their money, now it looks like they have been wronged by AMD.
 
If somebody that spends $5,000 on a system wants an AMD graphics card I sure as hell would make dang well sure they got one....but whatever. I can almost see their point with xfire issues but they never mentioned that sooo....
 
Michaelius said:
Funny how Kyle, Anand, Guru3d and other big sites don't have such sources in Nvidia :D But those sources always trust biggest Nvidia hater in the whole internet ;)
Click to expand...

I believe Kyle isn't on speaking terms with Nvidia anymore from what I remember.
 
NickJames said:
I believe Kyle isn't on speaking terms with Nvidia anymore from what I remember.
Click to expand...

Semiaccurate can do it because they don't sign NDA's and get review hardware in advance...not really hard to understand that it could ruin a lot of relationships if the more popular websites wrote about it. :rolleyes:
 
pcjunkie said:
Semiaccurate can do it because they don't sign NDA's and get review hardware in advance...not really hard to understand that it could ruin a lot of relationships if the more popular websites wrote about it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Exactly.

NickJames said:
I believe Kyle isn't on speaking terms with Nvidia anymore from what I remember.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure [H] gets Eng Samples as well. Notice how they post their review the day the NDA lifts.
 
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Tbh with yas, I dont give a fuck about the situation, I just got an email "not from anyone at originpc" asking me to post the post on these forums and to link the original thread back to originniche.com

Thats all.
 
Wow Semiaccurate is usually 50% right. So makes me wonder if indeed Nvidia paid them off. I would not be shocked if they did.

Besides first time i heard of origin pc's was then his thread was created.
 
Origin PC? Never heard of 'em. I am surprised this thread is 6 pages long. This is [H] people, we build our own rigs here.
 
NukeDukem said:
Origin PC? Never heard of 'em. I am surprised this thread is 6 pages long. This is [H] people, we build our own rigs here.
Click to expand...

I think thats what origin does, but then charge another 300-400 on top of it.
 
DASHlT said:
I think thats what origin does, but then charge another 600-800 on top of it.
Click to expand...

FTFY.

You can double that if we're talking about the more expensive ones.

($800 was the premium on a $3000 configuration -- $2200 @ Newegg)
 
Xonar said:
Pretty sure [H] gets Eng Samples as well. Notice how they post their review the day the NDA lifts.
Click to expand...

Those are from Nvidia partners I belive - most reviewed cards on release date are non stock.
 
Michaelius said:
Those are from Nvidia partners I belive - most reviewed cards on release date are non stock.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I remember him saying he has to go through loopholes now to get samples because Nvidia refuses to send him any.
 
DASHlT said:
Wow Semiaccurate is usually 50% right. So makes me wonder if indeed Nvidia paid them off. I would not be shocked if they did.

Besides first time i heard of origin pc's was then his thread was created.
Click to expand...

If by 50% right you mean .01% right
 
PRIME1 said:
If by 50% right you mean .01% right
Click to expand...

Nope 50% is about right. Iv seen him spot on on Nvidia and AMD Launches, but I also seen him very wrong.

50% is very accurate when concerning semiaccurate lol
 
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