Optimum performance setup with RAID0 and other issues - READ!

[GizmoC]

Hello everyone

Lately a lot of heated debates have taken place on various websites and forums over the efficiency of RAID0

Apparently, Anandtech and Storagereview claimed that RAID0 is not as good as people have made it seem... they claimed that performance gained is insignificant while the risk is much great.

Before you continue reading, It would be better if you check out this article on Slashdot
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/08/1311241&tid=198
Most important, read the comments.

Ok.
All this inflow of information is overwhelming for users like me who are trying to buy a storage solution.

After doing my fair share of research and extensive reading. I concluded that for best performace and stability you need 3 harddrives. 2 harddrives should be in a RAId0 array while the other harddrive should be single.
But the problem is, I dont know which programs should go on which harddrive

We users would appreciate it if the experts can answer the following:

1) Where should Windows be installed?
Common sense says that it should be installed on the single harddisk and not the RAID0 array... because RAID0 is statiscally more prone to failure. However, on the other hand... it also makes sense to put Windows on the RAID0 array, because afterall... Windows is the most frequently used "program" on your PC it can benefit from the extra speed the RAID0 array provides.
So, what to do?!?!

2) Where should the Windows pagefile be put?
For those who dont know, the pagefile is a file which acts as "virtual memory". Basically... this is one file that Windows uses very frequently especially while running memory-intensive programs.
Microsoft says "Try to avoid having a pagefile on the same drive as the system files. "
In other words, the pagefile should not be in the same harddisk where Windows is installed. So, if Windows is installed on a RAID0 array, then the pagefile should be put on the other independant harddisk and vice versa.
We run into a dilemma here.
If Windows is on a RAID0 array, then the pagefile should be on a independant harddisk. This means that overall perforamance will be less than optimal (because its on the slower drive). Moreover, putting Windows on a RAID0 array is risky to begin with.
So, in this case.. the logical thing to do is to put Windows on the normal independant harddisk while put the pagefile on the RAID0 array.
Any comments?

3) Programs
Your normal programs. WinAmp, Photoshop, MS Word, etc..
Where should you install all your programs?
I am really stumped here. Users dont really care about the programs themselves but they value their data created using these programs. If you put all your camcorder movies, documents, music, etc on your RAID0 array. You can DEFINATELY see improved loading times. But then again, you are risking your precious data incase the RAID0 array fails.
What to do!?! WHAT TO DO?!


4)Downloads/Upload.
Ya kno... Kazaa, emule, FTP. I am the type of person who has several uploads and downloads going on simoultaneously. I am always transferring 200kb of data upstream and downstream... now, 200kb is no big deal for any harddisk. So, I think putting all your movies/mp3/pr0n downloads on a RAID0 array or a normal harddisk doesnt make a difference. Am I right?
Please comment

5) Games
About time...... many people play games here. Quite simply, where should users install their games?

Well, thats it I guess.
If someone could please shed some light on the above issues it would be great for everyone. Also...can someone provide a summary as to what kind of processing is most suitable for RAID0 and what kind of processing is best left on an independant harddisk.

Oh, and finally... I have one very important question.
During my research I found out that most latest mobos come with built-in SATA Raid. But there are also a lot of PCI SATA Raid controllers available.... and actually, I found some REALLY expensive ones on Newegg.. some were cheap.. but some were shit expensive. I am just wondering if the on-board RAID solution is sufficient for me? Will there be a gain in performance if I buy a dedicated PCI SATA RAID controller? will my mobo be under less "stress" or something? If there is any difference in performance... is it worth it? Please shed some light on this issue.


AND FINALLY
THANK YOU FOR READING

Your responses are much appreciated.

Regards

 

[Jiffylush]

First let me say, that the following is how I am setup, not necessarily the best way, just the way I like to do it.

I have 2 36gb scsi drives in raid 0, and an 80gb ide for storage.

1. Windows is installed on the raid array.

2. My pagefile is also on the raid array, but I have 1 gig of raid, so the pagefile is basically not used.

3. All programs installed on the raid array.

4. I use the 80gb for storage, downloads, copies of important files, etc.

5. Also on the raid array.


edit - Missed the last part, the onboard sata controller should be fine, especially compared to a cheap pci one. The more expensive hardware based cards would offer better performance, but really wouldn't be worth it until at least raid 5, at which point you would be close to saturating the pci bus, and looking at upgrading to pci-x

I do make backups, and I am very happy with the performance of my machine.

 

[GeForceX]

Let it be known that if you do a very nice build of your RAID 0 array hard drives together in the most proper way and conditions, you should NOT have to worry SOOO much about a failure. Only if you do extreme tweaks would you'd normally expect something to die. Anywho, this is a very controversial issue and it really does depend on your experience and/or judgement and/or the way you plan on using your system. RAID 0 seems to be plenty fine for a gaming PC considering it is not exactly a *if-I-lose-these-files-I-will-die* issue. It only runs on performance and thus it should be treated that way. It should have the most often used programs on RAID 0. Now, answering your questions sequentially:

1) Where should Windows be installed? - RAID 0, only if you made a proper back up of its' service pack(s) and critical patches and drivers on your storage drive. So, even if Windows failed, you will have all the handy files ready to be transferred on your new RAID 0 set. All good, no major loss except you'd have to re-install the programs again.

2) Where should the Windows page file be put? - All this depends entirely on your RAM. If you have 1 GB and you do not use so much programs that actually exceeds that much then you shouldn't worry. It can be set on the same hard drive but you will not use page filing at all (or more like barely). Unless page filing occurs for you more often, it is best to place it on your storage hard drive. It does depend on your programs as well because as you load the program, some of them will require page filing and as you click 'open file', it will search your storage drive which might, marginally at best slow you down a bit. Not that much however because you wouldn't be playing a 3D game now, would you? For 3D games, it should be installed on RAID 0 with the page file option on the storage hard drive.

3) Where should you install all your programs? - You should put all your frequently used programs on RAID 0 and back up the saved files on the storage. It only makes sense. Since you can reinstall the program itself many times over, you certainly cannot re-save your precious files many times over, especially when it is lost. An example would be having Windows Media Player on RAID 0 (integrated with Windows XP) and having all of your songs on the storage hard drive. Windows Media Player will load fast but your songs will eventually get there. ;-) Another example would be 3D Max Studio or Photoshop 7.0. All these programs remain on RAID 0 while your saved files and renders would be on the storage drive.

4) Does upload/download affect my hard drive? - Basically, marginally at best, no. It should only affect your bandwidth and your CPU utilization (if you use onboard). Other than that, when your download is complete, that's when your hard drive works, it will copy the file(s) you downloaded fully to the hard drive and thus it uses that speed your hard drive has. However, here is a good idea. You can download anything onto your RAID 0 and speed up the process. If there is waste you do not like, you can simply delete it. As for the rest you'd like to keep, transfer it to the other storage hard drive. It's best to be organized as well by having a neat folder for each purpose. It will help you and the computer (or would that be placebo?). I almost forgot, as you upload, you're doing the opposite from copying; you are extracting it from your hard drive, making it a pack which it will upload. So in one way or another, it uses your hard drive once in a while. But IMO, it wouldn't make much of a difference to the naked eye (200 KB is nothing). Unless you handle 200 MB+ files then RAID 0 would definitely be glad to put these to work.

5) Where should I put my games? - Without a doubt, put them in your RAID 0 set. Games need all the speed it can load. All the saved files from gaming (maps, skins, mods, saved games, etc...) should be backed up to your other storage drive. You can always reinstall your favorite games easily.

Note: Here is one risk-free thing you can do but it will take up more time and space. You can back up every file you have, even with game saves, renders, documents and such and have them all ported over to the storage drive. The original ones will remain on the RAID 0. Everytime you make a new file located in RAID 0, you must manually back it up to the storage hard drive for safety purposes. So in such undesirable event that your RAID 0 system fails, the storage hard drive pretty much has 99% of all your *hard work* files saved.

Built-In RAID's utilizes your CPU so it may be slower when compared to an actual hardware RAID controller. In fact (last time I read anyway), the fastest RAID 0 setups uses a hardware RAID controller. It can transfer more like over 140 MB/second at peak and the more expensive ones can restore you some faith in your setup because it offers a more robust and reliable hardware-level PCI card. I would assume anyway. But is onboard RAID sufficient for you? If reliability is number one priority and you handle sensitive documents and applications across on that RAID 0 system, then no, it wouldn't be enough. It is basically your consumer level RAID which is good enough for a gamer so to speak. If you are one, then it is more than enough. Is there a gain? Slightly and most likely yes, but I wouldn't know how much more exactly. Will your motherboard be less stressed? Yes, and so would your CPU. Is it worth it? You decide if your applications are so sensitive. But either way, I would go for the expensive ones (hopefully you're considering the brand names, not just any cheap one) because I know I can rely on it without much trouble. Of course, I can be wrong too. It could happen to you out of nowhere too.

Can someone provide a summary as to what kind of processing is most suitable for RAID 0 and what kind of processing is best left on an independant hard disk. - That, I don't understand what you mean...

Hope it helps, if at all...

-J.

 

[GizmoC]

thanks for your replies!

 

[GeForceX]

Also, you may want to look on this: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=791065

Which djnes did some testing on RAID 0. Just focus on the real world usage of the drive. Performance degrades by a slight bit. Is it even worth it? I can't really say much now. Honestly, for the price, is it worth it? No. You're better off buying a 15K Cheetah or something. But let's do the math with some "supposed" values here--

All drives are based on 100% performance (fictional).

Setup 1: WD 74 GB Raptor - $180 = 100% + Page File = 90%(?) Total: $180.


Setup 2: WD 74 GB Raptor - $180 = 100% + Free Page File = 110%(?) Total: $360.
..............WD 74 GB Raptor - $180 = 100% + Page File = 90%(?)

Setup 3: WD 74 GB Raptor + RAID ($20) - $180 = $200 + Page File + Risk of Failure = 115%(?) Total: $400.
..............WD 74 GB Raptor + RAID ($20) - $180 = $200

Please note this is not even close to actual performance percentage wise, it is only a stupid scrap comparasion in aim of cost vs. performance ratio. And this can even be off the truth.

Comparing from Setup 3 to Setup 2, the latter seems like a better value/deal. You're paying $40~ dollars-ish (just an estimate value) for only some 5%~ extra difference in performance when you pick Setup 3. I would prefer the dual 74 GB set in which I can set the page file on the second hard drive. Either way, the hard drive would still be useful to back up data as it won't be used THAT much, only to store data QUICKLY. The main raptor would be for your everyday general use/work/gaming. That makes more sense. You save $40 dollars while already actually gaining some good optimal performance. This whole diagram could be bogus too. But when you add in the possibility of losing one hard drive thus losing both, that turns out to be a very bad idea. To me the RAID 0's aren't even worth it.

Unless you did all the proper steps to build a RAID 0 system with the best RAID controller on the market and such and you actually use memory-heavy programs then there's a good reasont to use RAID 0's.

Just my lame, very flame-attractive two cents.

-J.