Optane SSD DC P4800X

Shintai

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
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So, a doubling of Random Write IOPS from top-end SSDs and double the write endurance.
Oh, and a halving of the MTBF from the DC3700.

Anyone else feeling that this is petty much a dud? If this was just the next-gen NAND SSD, it would be a nice and very respectable improvement. Given what has been said about 3D X-Point however, I expected much, much more(at least in terms of sequential read/write speed)....


Intel DC3700 for comparison:
upload_2017-2-12_12-37-30.png

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww.../product-specifications/ssd-dc-p3700-spec.pdf
 
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The P4800X is interface limited in IOPS and access time is quite lower.

There is also much less extra provisioned. The P3700 got 17, but the product it replaces got only 3. So that's 10x in endurance there.
 
Shintai said:
The P4800X is interface limited in IOPS and access time is quite lower.

There is also much less extra provisioned. The P3700 got 17, but the product it replaces got only 3. So that's 10x in endurance there.
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these also don't come with as many channels and as beef as a CPU as they could and they also are still 4x for some odd reason. Planned generational upgrades?
 
Yep, its really nice and in very high demand for specially SQL servers.

It completely smashes everything before it. A giant leap for storage.
 
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As soon as regular folks can get one, people will put one in their ssd systems and try for a 5 second boot time. Wonder if that will satisfy "my computer is soooo slow to boot up".
 
that 4K QD1/2 is epic. I want this so damn bad!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing touches this.

That QoS is epic too!

This is PCIe too!!! I ant wait for DIMMs :D

Its <4K is insane too.

I cant wait for sane priced consumer drives. I am hoping in a year or two they are like 2 bucks a gig or so.
 
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Khahhblaab said:
As soon as regular folks can get one, people will put one in their ssd systems and try for a 5 second boot time. Wonder if that will satisfy "my computer is soooo slow to boot up".
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Doubtful.

edit rant: We just upgraded all our users to SSDs and 8GB of ram and still get "my computer is so slow" from them.... These things boot in less than 20 seconds and have zero process time when opening new applications even with 15 things open... I don't understand it.
 
walwalka said:
Doubtful.

edit rant: We just upgraded all our users to SSDs and 8GB of ram and still get "my computer is so slow" from them.... These things boot in less than 20 seconds and have zero process time when opening new applications even with 15 things open... I don't understand it.
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a lot of program and OS limitations are single thread limits due to coding.

The difference from my server and main rig is very noticeable before even putting a 950 PRO in it.
 
MRFSYS said:
We did a very rough comparison of bandwidth and latency recently:

transmitting one 4K IOP over an x4 PCIe 3.0 interface takes about 1 us (one microsecond):

8 GHz / 8.125 bits per byte @ x4 PCIe 3.0 lanes = 3,938,462,000 bytes per second

4,096 / 3,938,462,000 ~= 4 / 4,000,000 = 1/1,000,000 second

The stated latency of this P4800X is 10 us (ten microseconds).

Thus, an x8 interface should transmit one 4K IOP
about twice as fast, or in 0.5 us (one-half microsecond).


Look at it this way: you're a football Quarterback at Spring Training,
and it takes you 10 seconds to locate your favorite football in a storage locker,
and it takes you 1 second to pass that football to your favorite receiver.

Even if you can throw a perfect pass in one-half of a second,
it still took you 10 full seconds to locate that football in the storage locker.
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according to intel PCIe interface has a lot of overhead.

intel_3d_xpoint_projections.png


This was also shown to be true with the ULLtraDIMM that the latency for PCIe is magnitudes worse than memory channel. ULLtraDIMM don't use any fancy NAND and they are substantially faster than PCIe ones. Add XPoint and memory channel together and we have an amazing system.

If i understand what your doing correctly you are looking at cycle latency and not interface latency in that math. That is the same with gaming mice. 1000hz mice shave a small amount of latency off the overall latency but that isn't the total latency from CPU to XPoint storage latency.

It would only be twice as fast in that one part of the total chain resulting in only a .5us shorter latency not 5us shorter latency.
 
MRFSYS said:
Thanks! I believe Allyn Malventano's review of the P4800X has a graph
showing the relative percentages of several elements of aggregate overhead.

As far as Optane mounted on the DDR4 DIMM form factor,
I would LUV to see another triple-channel architecture with
one of those channels dedicated to Optane DIMMs.

The regular DIMM channels could still operate in
quad-channel mode:

6 DIMM slots total:
4 for DDR4 DIMMs in quad-channel mode
2 for NVDIMMs w/ Optane hosting the OS.
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thats my hope that they design either DIMMs to accept it in a new standard or great a new interface with lower overhead.

So yes faster than current RAMDisks according to intel graph above. It would be 4-5 times slower than RAM but faster than current RAMDisk by an order of magnitude!

250ns and Millions of IOPs :D

Optane is at the speed of where I am content and satisfied to see 400MBps 4K but better is always better :D


gap-4.png
 
MRFSYS said:
Over at pcper.com, Allyn and I have been bouncing around the kinds of changes
that will be needed to dedicate 2 out of a total of 6 DIMM slots to Optane-like
non-volatile DRAM.

Done properly, the BIOS / UEFI subsystem should allow
those 2 DIMM slots to be formatted as a standard NTFS partition before
doing a fresh OS install. That OS installation procedure will then detect that
memory in exactly the same manner in which it now detects a JBOD SSD,
or RAID array, for hosting the OS.

That enhancement to BIOS / UEFI subsystems should not be too difficult.

Many of us DIY enthusiasts are already doing a very similar thing now
with a RAID-0 array of 2x or 4x Nand Flash SSDs, ~50-64 GB formatted as C: and
the remainder formatted as the E: drive letter (assuming optical drive is D: ).

As such, the dual-channel Optane DIMMs will have the extra benefits
of DRAM bandwidth, in addition to all of Optane's other benefits; and,
this development should be implemented without requiring any
changes to existing OS software i.e. so it's "transparent" to
normal OS installation procedures.

There may be a problem if the sysadmin wants to overclock the
standard quad-channel DRAM, but the dual-channel Optane DIMMs
cannot clock quite as fast. We would need to ask Intel and AMD if
their on-chip memory controllers can clock simultaneously at
2 different speeds (something to consider for the future).

I suspect that current Intel and AMD CPUs do NOT have such a
capability, but this is certainly something that is on this side
of the visible horizon.
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My hope is since these XPoint DIMMs will be so fast we can start using next gen file systems like ReFS. ReFS sucks for main drive because it is slow on current tech but on XPoint it should be fast enough to compensate for the file-system overhead.

Hell XPoint PCIe should be fast enough to use ReFS but correct me if I am wrong. I havent read up on it in a long time.

ReFS isn't bootable ATM but my point is I am hopeful we will have a new file-system that is bootable that supported automated checksum for data integrity.
 
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walwalka said:
Doubtful.

edit rant: We just upgraded all our users to SSDs and 8GB of ram and still get "my computer is so slow" from them.... These things boot in less than 20 seconds and have zero process time when opening new applications even with 15 things open... I don't understand it.
Click to expand...

Guess that some folks just dont understand. We are a while away to have a computer "know" what they want b4 they even sit down! So, im guess'n, raid zero 4 optane drives and thread to a cpus level 1 cache, wont be enough. I used to know people that thought that when the tech is actually doing most of the work that they should get a full paycheck. Hopefully after a 20 sec boot they dont get up and find coffee.
 
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