Opinion on new server quote

[nowwhatnapster]

Use:

For SMB with <10 client machines. The only software that the machine runs is POS and Worldship. The client machines do not have a local install of the POS software. It runs via shortcut to server. Client machines have their "My Documents" mapped to a shared drive on server. Some clients run outlook and quickbooks. Again, those files are on server. There is some "bulky" non-critical data which gets stored on the external drive. This data is not fully duplicated locally or remotely.​

Existing Server Specs:

Dell Optiplex GX520
P4 3.0ghz (Prescott)
2GB (2x1gb)
80GB 7200rpm SATA
+ 500GB 7200rpm External USB
Windows 2000 Advanced Server​

New "Quoted" ~$1300 Server Specs: (you think dell would have figured out how to make their quotes more organized by now?)

Spoiler: Specs

Base Unit:                   PowerEdge T110 Chassis with upto 4 Cabled Hard Drives (224-6816)
Processor:                   SHIP,T110,NO,NO,DAO (330-6454)
Memory:                      4GB Memory (4x1GB), 1333MHz, Single Ranked UDIMM (317-2431)
Memory:                      Memory for 1CPU Platform (317-2022)
Video Card:                  X3430 Xeon Processor, 2.4 GHz 8M Cache, Turbo (317-2044)
Video Card:                  PowerEdge T110 Heatsink (330-5552)
Hard Drive:                  250GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive (341-6085)
Hard Drive Controller:       No Controller (341-3933)
Operating System:            Windows Server 2008 R2, Standard Edition, Includes 5 CALS (421-1622)
NIC:                         On board Network Adapter (430-0488)
Modem:                       Baseboard Management Controller (313-7919)
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM Drive:     ODD Cable, PowerEdge R210 (330-5707)
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM Drive:     16X DVD-ROM,SATA, INTERNAL (313-9100)
Documentation Diskette:      Electronic System Documentation and OpenManage DVD Kit (330-5704)
Additional storage Products: 250GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive (341-6085)
Feature:                     PERC S100 (Embedded SATA Software RAID) supporting 3-4 Hard Drives - RAID 5 (330-5565)
Feature:                     INFO,S100,3 TO 8 HDDS (341-1134)
Service:                     Basic: Business Hours (5X10) Next Business Day On Site Hardware Warranty Repair 2Year Extended (905-0542)
Service:                     Basic: Business Hours (5X10) Next Business Day On Site Hardware Warranty Repair Initial Year (905-8070)
Service:                     Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Initial Year (905-1847)
Service:                     Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Extended Year (905-3508)
Service:                     Basic support covers SATA Hard Drive for 1 year only regardless of support duration on the system (994-4019)
Service:                     DECLINED CRITICAL BUSINESS SERVER OR STORAGE SOFTWARE SUPPORT PACKAGE-CALL YOUR DELL SALES REP IF UPGRADE NEED (906-2139)
Installation:                On-Site Installation Declined (900-9997)
Misc:                        250GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive (341-6085)
Misc:                        Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13 wall plug, 10 feet (330-5113)

My two big concerns with this build:
Software Raid 5?

If I read the quote correctly it looks like its 3x250GB 7.2k SATA drives with a PERC S100 (Software raid on sata chipset). I typically avoid MOBO raid because if the raid dies you need a new mobo. [STRIKE=]Secondly, most onboard chipsets do not have the horsepower for RAID5.[/s] Actually I guess it uses the CPU so that statement is not true. I would imagine the CPU is going to be underutilized for the most part, so if the raid is using part of it I suppose that is fine. I still think if my budget restricts me to mobo raid I I would opt for another HDD and go RAID10 or settle for RAID1.
​

Non-Intel Onboard NIC

Documentation shows the onboard NIC is a Broadcom BCM 5722. My experience with NICs is Intel > Everyone Else​

Local Backup

This quote does not address the issue of local backup. While raid is convenient, a full system image locally stored is a big time saver.​

In regards to the POS software requirements, this new build fits the "recommended" plus some extra.

Another idea that might be worth some thought is two raid 1 arrays. OS/POS/Worldship on one and documents/outlook/quickbooks/non-critical on the other.

 

[thedge]

Broadcoms are solid NICS. I have installed many servers with them and have never had an issue or performance problem that could be attributed to the NIC not being an Intel.

Its Realtek that you need to run from.

 

[mwroobel]

My one first question is are you running Quickbooks POS and is it older than version 8 (There are some shared issues if so)? Also, spend a few extra bucks and get a hardware RAID6 card. Use bigger drives to get the same amount of storage if you are stuck with a specific number of drive slots. Also, what is your backup strategy going to be for this server?

 

[nowwhatnapster]

Broadcoms are solid NICS. I have installed many servers with them and have never had an issue or performance problem that could be attributed to the NIC not being an Intel.

Its Realtek that you need to run from.

I can't seem to find anything disputing your claim so, broadcom it is.

My one first question is are you running Quickbooks POS and is it older than version 8 (There are some shared issues if so)? Also, spend a few extra bucks and get a hardware RAID6 card. Use bigger drives to get the same amount of storage if you are stuck with a specific number of drive slots. Also, what is your backup strategy going to be for this server?

The POS is not Quickbooks. They use something called Retail Pro. It is a bit dated and uses a flat file database. I believe the new version which they will eventually upgrade to uses an oracle database.

I agree, if it were my business I would invest a hardware raid card. Any suggestions for a budget minded dell raid card? This page seems to say there are only 4 options for the T110.

• PERC H200 (6Gb/s)
• SAS 6/iR
• PERC S100 (software based)
• PERC S300 (software based)

Hopefully that is not the case because only the H200 and 6/iR are listed as hardware raid, and none of them support advanced raid levels. I would assume I can pick from any of these.

As for the flavor of RAID, what makes you lean towards Raid6 over say RAID10 or RAID5.

In regards to backup strategy, they have a remote backup of critical data via StoreGrid to amazon s3 serviced by a local reputable SMB. Bulky non-critical data gets backed up through Mozy. I also setup a nightly local backup via syncback of the POS data to the external USB drive. There is no full system image of the OS. If the OS drive fails tomorrow they would be down for at least a full business day, maybe even 2.

With this new build everything stays the same except the addition of RAID. Again, no local full system image. I have never dealt with system images of a server OS, so I am not sure how easily/cheaply this can be implemented, but I definitely want it.

 

[mwroobel]

Broadcom PHY chips are top notch, up with the intel. The ones you should stay away from (if you can) are the Realteks.

If you are going with Dell onsite service (especially if the site is far from you), you may not want to put in a third party controller because of lack of support. You could choose the PERC 6/I adapter from dell in this case which would give you HW RAID6. As to why 6 vs 5+hotspare or 10.... R6 can continue to give you uptime with any 2 of the 4 drives failed. R10 or 0+1 can survive 2 failures, but only if it is the right 2 drives. For example, if you have D1 and D3 being your R0 and D2(Mirror of D1) and D4(Mirror Of D4) if D1 & D2 die you are screwed, you have a mirror copy of 1/2 of your array. R5+hs is similarly constrained, where if 1 drive fails, the rebuild starts and prior to completion a second drive (not the hs) fails you are down.

Another item, even though the quote says you chose 2 years for service, your drives as per the quote are only covered for 1 year.

A particular problem with dell is how they lay out what you can choose based upon the model. In their on-line config, the cheaper model may only have choices of 250GB-750GB drives (even though it is capable of using larger drives), or may not offer the more expensive RAID card (they figure if you want the cost and capabilities of the better card, you can afford more expensive hardware). You may have success calling their business sales line, they can offer you options that the online config does not.

It is very good that you have a proper backup strategy in place for online storage, but you might want to think about a complete backup of a complete system image to a 4TB external USB3 drive (get a USB3 card for the box), this would give you a relatively fast backup to fit within a standard business backup window and a single image to restore a snapshot of the system when the replacement hardware arrived in case of complete failure. This would also minimize their downtime and be a good adjunct to their existing backup. As for software, you can use something like Retrospect Server which has bare-iron DR capabilities, or Acronis or the like (Server version, 2008r2 compliant).

 

[nowwhatnapster]

I agree with your suggestions, however, I do have to draw the line somewhere for these folks. They are on a tight budget and I will need to justify (in laymens terms) any additions over the original quote.

Right now I am feeling like the following additions make the most sense for this SMB. Maybe this will run an additional $400 to $700? I really have no idea how much the software will be.

• Add PERC 6/i in RAID5 config (3x250gb)
• Add bare metal backup software to existing 500GB USB drive

I see there is a CERC 6/i that has 128MB cache and no BBU, worth considering or is it garbage?

Considering they are fairly contempt with their current system speed which is just a single 7200rpm 80gb drive. I have serious doubts I will be able to convince owner that these are necessary upgrades.

 

[mwroobel]

Honestly, as this is just a one-off box and you only intend to stick with R5, you can stick with the original plan with the S100 (or SAS 6/iR) instead of going with the PERC 6/I which is going to offer cost and features you aren't using. Better to (in this case) put those $$$ towards the backup software. Upping the RAM to 8GB might also give you a quick speed boost (depending on what software is going to run on the box itself Worldship (horribly written app) + POS + Backup and who knows what they may add.) Also, again by the quote, it looks like they only specced 2 250GB hard drives. The last item is I believe the T110 has been replaced by the T110 II (at least on Dells site it has, and with 5 CALS, 3 drives etc it is quite a bit more expensive)

 

[nowwhatnapster]

Just wanted to bring you up to speed. I got a few more quotes lined up. The first quote for the T110 as shown above is totaling about $8k when all is said and done. That includes a Shadow Protect for local backup, a non-consumer grade UPS, Install/migrate, 5 additional CALs, Tax, Travel and a workstation to replace a super old machine.

I had them price out a more robust T310 machine that comes in around $11.7k. It includes everything above less the workstation. It allows us to turn the old workstation into a thin client and other aging workstations for that matter. It also allows us to run a our POS software in a 32-bit VM while still having a 64-bit Host OS that is capable of running the new version of our POS software that we intend to upgrade to. They also tossed in a wallmount rack.

The price is a bit steep, but this is fairfield county and everything comes at a premium here. Also bear in mind the last time a server was purchased in this company was 2003.

 

[hotcrandel]

glad it worked out for you. seems a little expensive but i suppose that cost also covers the consultant.