Open Headset for Gaming/Music

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Xikan

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I'm looking to step up from my Audiotechnica ATH-AD700. I'd really like something with a built in mic if possible and not just headphones.

So far it seems like everything I read is pointing me towards Sennheiser PC 360. Are there any other competitors in the $100-250 price range that I should be considering?


Thanks,
Xik
 
nothing under $250 is a notable step up from the AD700. nothing with an attached microphone is a notable step up from the AD700. if you're looking to go beyond the realm of the AD700, be prepared to spend major money.
 
Look to Beyerdynamic for upgraded, open, sound under $250. 880 and 990.
 
Beyerdynamic makes some great gaming headphones:
Beyerdynamic MMX 300. They are a bit over your budget however at $349.99
http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-MMX-300-Premium-Microphone/dp/B001BYMZ5W

That said, Sennheiser also make a couple as well:
PC 350 = closed back design ($179.95):
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PC-350-Collapsible-Microphone/dp/B0012XFDWO
PC 360 = open back design ($239.95)
http://www.amazon.com/PC-360-Headset-Pro-Gaming/dp/B003DA4D2U/ref=pd_cp_e_2

Not too many other options out there with mics attached and made for PC gaming.
 
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So, what would be a step up from the audiotechnica for gaming?

Also, what soundcard would you guys suggest for Audiotechnica ATH-AD700 or your suggested upgrade?
 
Xikan said:
So, what would be a step up from the audiotechnica for gaming?

Also, what soundcard would you guys suggest for Audiotechnica ATH-AD700 or your suggested upgrade?
Click to expand...

I'm currently on a X-Fi Titanium on my ATH AD700 and its great.
 
Xikan said:
So, what would be a step up from the audiotechnica for gaming?

Also, what soundcard would you guys suggest for Audiotechnica ATH-AD700 or your suggested upgrade?
Click to expand...

I use my BeyerDynamic DT 990 for everything, music to gaming. They excel with music and they have a very good soundstage which is quite nice for gaming. They're extremely detailed and accurate with great bass and highs that extend further than most headphones too. However, they really do need an amp(I use a cheap Mini^3).

If you want a soundcard, get something with a high quality DAC(BurrBrown chips) like an Asus Xonar or E-MU(Creative's professional brand).
 
990 is not what I would call musical. The mids are missing. It is a fun sounding can with bass and highs. Not at all a bad headphone.

The 880 is the best all around dynamic semi open headphone under $250.
 
spaceman said:
990 is not what I would call musical. The mids are missing. It is a fun sounding can with bass and highs. Not at all a bad headphone.

The 880 is the best all around dynamic semi open headphone under $250.
Click to expand...
I own both the DT770 and DT880. The mids for the most part between the two are roughly the same. The 990's also have a mid-range that's about the same as the other two... Difference is the 990 has a healthier bump in mid-bass then either of the other two.
The 880 is a great set of cans, but they venture towards being a bit analytical at times. I normally grab my 770's first for that reason as I enjoy some bass :D

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Seinheisser HD595's? I had a pair a little while ago and they we're excellent for open ears. Really awesome for gaming.
 
The mid bass drowns detail out of the mids. If you eq it a bit, there will be more detail.

Regardless, both the 990 and 880 are excellent for gaming. Best stock earpads in the business too.

The 770 is a fartcannon stock and only bearable if headphile modded. Even then the price/performance is poor.

595 are ok but too small for me. IF you can get a pair of those around $100 and don't have big ears. Go for it.
 
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I had the PC 350, which is more or less the 360 but a little older, was horrible in comparison to the ATH-AD700, just my two cents. Also you ALWAYS pays convenience fees when buying a headset, get a set of headphones and buy a simple mic you like.
 
So I've been dabbling in the echelon above the AD700s for a bit and I've reached the following conclusion: the AD700s have spoiled me in terms of comfort.

I bought the AKG K702s as my first foray. They sound good. I'd say similar to the AD700, just better. More analytical, slightly better bass, and if you can believe it, a bigger soundstage. Along with the soundstage and sharper mids and highs came better imaging, always important for gaming purposes and for instrument separation. However, for what I considered to be minor-to medium improvements in sound quality came a HUGE hit to comfort.

Whoever designed the headband on those things should be shot. It's got these little hard leather bumps in the bottom of it presumably designed to help it stay in place on your head. In practice, they are so small and so hard that they just dig holes into your head. I'm not exaggerating this, after only an hour of wearing them, I had indentations in the soft tissue of the top of my head from these bumps. And furthermore, this is a REVISED VERSION of the headband designed to be more comfortable. They originally came with only 7 bumps including a more prominent one directly in the middle of the headband that dug straight into your skull.

As another side note on the 702's comfort, I found the earpads to be quite hard. They have a nice velour finish and they are MASSIVE, but the foam underneath was not well chosen: it's quite hard. They would need far more time breaking in than I gave them to become really comfortable. Also, their huge size (bigger than the AD700s) means that they can bug your cheeks and jaw if you're not used to it.

After the debacle with the K702s, I tried the Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250 Ohm. These were one of those phones that was almost universally praised as being comfortable. They're not. The velour on the earpads is a great feeling material, and I found them to be the type of phone that feels phenomenal for the first couple of minutes when you put them on. However, as time went on wearing them, I found the clamping pressure to be slightly too tight.

They just started to give me a headache. This was a combination of my issues with the comfort and the fucking unreal treble and highs in these phones. The first thing I noticed about the sound upon putting them on was that vocals sounded far away in my music. The mids were very recessed and no more clear than the AD700s. The second thing I noticed was that the highs sound way too bright, sharp, and tinny. They are sibilant and just hugely annoying to the last degree. They are typically described as having a U shaped frequency response: strong bass, weak mids, strong treble. This description is right on the money, to the point where the highs will just kill you. I wasn't listening to them any louder than any other phones and they literally left my head ringing after a long period of listening to them.

The bass is nice, the soundstage is good (but smaller than the AD700), and on the whole, I'd say that the sound is clearer and crisper than the AD700s, but not by much, certainly not as much as the K702. They are often praised as a headphone that is very musical and fun to listen to. I did not have fun listening to them. They gave me a headache, and that's it.

The earpads feel super nice at first, but I think I put my finger on the problem I have with them. They aren't too hard like the K702s, they are simply not big enough. The clamping force is not distributed over a large enough area to make them comfortable for me after using the massive earpads of the AD700s for so many years. They almost felt like they were strangling my ears, if that makes any sense.

Now, I know I sound like an Audio Technica spokesperson, but I just wanted to throw in that I find my old HD555s to be tolerably comfortable. Not in the realm of the AD700s, mostly owing to their slightly tighter clamping force, but if you were to consider the HD558s or HD598s, they would probably be as good as better. I cannot recommend the AKG K701/2s or the Beyerdynamic DT990s (or the DT880s by extension) due to the comfort issues. You may find them different, however, as most people seem to find the DT series of Beyers to be extremely comfortable.

Now, for a counterpoint to the AD700s to consider, I pestered a friend into buying them recently and he doesn't like them. He's been on the HD555s for years, and he had the same complaint I've seen a very small minority of AD700 owners have: the pads are too big and too loose. I don't know if these people who have this complaint just have small/weirdly shaped heads, but I really don't feel it. My head is fairly medium sized, and they fit marvelously. I love the low clamping force and the massive earpads because it doesn't even feel like I'm wearing any headphones at all. However, according to this friend, they mess with his jaw on the bottom of the pads and the pressure is uneven, as if they are pinching his jaw and barely touching at his hairline. Again, I could not disagree more with him, but it is what it is.

Now, to top off this incredibly long post, I can make one more recommendation if you want to graduate from the AD700 regime: the AD900. All reviews I've read on them seem to point to them being the same kind of sound, just better all around. Same design in terms of earpads and the 3D wings, same kind of massive, airy soundstage. In retrospect, I probably should have just bought the AD900s instead of dicking around with these AKGs and Beyers for several weeks, but I guess I just wasn't really thinking.
 
Xikan said:
krameriffic,
Thanks for the response that was super helpful!
Click to expand...

The biggest thing that I was trying to get across was that its tough to go back from the AD700 for me just in terms of comfort. Both the headphones I discussed were technically superior to the AD700, but I just couldn't use them. I ordered the AD900 earlier today and it will be here tomorrow. I seriously doubt it will disappoint in the comfort department.
 
I can completely relate. The comfort factor is definitely a large part of why I haven’t switched out my AD700 yet. I was looking at K702, as they have been praised, but I’m glad you pointed out a question that non-gamers don’t seem to be acknowledging: “Can you wear the headphones for more than an hour?”

Please let me know what you think about the AD900 when you get it.

So I have my new machine up and running now and I figured I would try the onboard since it’s been probably 10 years since I’ve tried onboard, well the verdict is in for me -- nope it’s not going to cut it!
 
I can personally wear the DT880 and DT770pros that I have for well over a hour no problem. I've actually forgotten I was wearing them before and ended up with them on my head for 3-4 hours.
 
Xikan said:
I can completely relate. The comfort factor is definitely a large part of why I haven’t switched out my AD700 yet. I was looking at K702, as they have been praised, but I’m glad you pointed out a question that non-gamers don’t seem to be acknowledging: “Can you wear the headphones for more than an hour?”

Please let me know what you think about the AD900 when you get it.

So I have my new machine up and running now and I figured I would try the onboard since it’s been probably 10 years since I’ve tried onboard, well the verdict is in for me -- nope it’s not going to cut it!
Click to expand...

I was hoping the onboard would be good enough...but nope, it's not.

What type of music do you listen to? Is gaming your main concern? Are you willing to get an amp?
 
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All in all, the DT 990 and AD700 are both great...but there's no comparison for me. The Beyers simply sound better in almost every aspect...especially richness, bass and clarity in the highs. But that's expected at almost double the price and more demanding needs. I recently(within the last few months) got one of my good friends to pickup the AD700s. They sounded better than I expected for the price and no amp. He loves them, but they just made me miss my Beyers. Beyers are also super comfortable...I wear them for at least 4 hours a day.

It's not a fair comparison. The AD900 would be more comparable to the DT 990. Given that, if you don't want to spend more than $200 on your headphone setup, I highly recommend the AD700s.

spaceman said:
990 is not what I would call musical. The mids are missing. It is a fun sounding can with bass and highs. Not at all a bad headphone.

The 880 is the best all around dynamic semi open headphone under $250.
Click to expand...

The 990s are extremely musical, these were Beyer's flagship headphones until very recently after all. They have a little less mids compared to its bass and highs, but that doesn't at all make it unmusical. They're very accurate, clear and rich. Excellent bass and high extension, better than a lot of the market.

They're almost too clear. If you don't have a good source or good quality material, you'll hear any noise that may be present. Part of what makes the DT 990s so good is their extreme clarity, especially in the higher end, where you hear more delicate sounds.

Some prefer the DT 880s more and others prefer the DT 770s. I think it comes down to personal taste and how your ears hear. The DT 880s have a little less bass and highs than the DT 990s and DT 770s are some of the bassiest headphones you can find(too much so imo).

krameriffic said:
After the debacle with the K702s, I tried the Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250 Ohm. These were one of those phones that was almost universally praised as being comfortable. They're not. The velour on the earpads is a great feeling material, and I found them to be the type of phone that feels phenomenal for the first couple of minutes when you put them on. However, as time went on wearing them, I found the clamping pressure to be slightly too tight.

They just started to give me a headache. This was a combination of my issues with the comfort and the fucking unreal treble and highs in these phones. The first thing I noticed about the sound upon putting them on was that vocals sounded far away in my music. The mids were very recessed and no more clear than the AD700s. The second thing I noticed was that the highs sound way too bright, sharp, and tinny. They are sibilant and just hugely annoying to the last degree. They are typically described as having a U shaped frequency response: strong bass, weak mids, strong treble. This description is right on the money, to the point where the highs will just kill you. I wasn't listening to them any louder than any other phones and they literally left my head ringing after a long period of listening to them.

The bass is nice, the soundstage is good (but smaller than the AD700), and on the whole, I'd say that the sound is clearer and crisper than the AD700s, but not by much, certainly not as much as the K702. They are often praised as a headphone that is very musical and fun to listen to. I did not have fun listening to them. They gave me a headache, and that's it.
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Its almost unreal that you didn't find the Beyers comfortable. I can have mine on for hours upon hours upon hours. I don't even feel them almost, they feel so good and comfy on my head. The band being tight loosens up quickly. I have times where I'll put my Beyers on and forget they're on for hours...I'll end up sitting there with headphones on and no sound playing lol.

The biggest issue most people have is sibilance and not being used to the highs. My DT 990s were rather sibilant when I was using an Audigy 2 ZS as my source. The minute I switched to my E-MU 0404 USB, whatever sibilance I had was gone. Using the headphones for a couple hundred hours also made any hint of sibilance gone as my brain got used to the sound signature. Yes the highs are almost unreal...but that's only because you're used to not hearing highs that extend so far. That part of your ear is more sensitive as it is not used much previously.

I like that you touched the K702. When choosing my headphones it came down to the DT 990s, K701s and Ultrasone 2500s. Your description of the K702s is exactly what I expected, which is nice to see.
 
I absolutely considered them the technically better headphones, both the DT990s and K702s. However, I seem to be stuck in a rut where the only style of headphone earpads/clamping I can tolerate anymore are the AD line from Audio Technica. I'd never seen someone complain of the comfort on the DT990s, and they were not nearly as bad as the K702's with that shit headband, but they just weren't good enough for me to justify the $230 I spent on them.
 
How long did you use the DT 990s? Did you have the Premium or the Pro version? Most headphones need some time for their bands to be broken in and the Pro version is known to have a stronger clamp.

What I personally can't stand are headphones that rest on my ears. I wear glasses and those type always make my ears hurt after 15 min or so.
 
Beyers have been the most comfy dynamic headphones I have ever had. I might add that I have owned almost every mainstream headphone.

Oh, the K1000 was more comfortable but that and Stax are totally different than normal headphones. The K1000 was open and did not touch my ears. Especially in full on batwing mode lol. Miss those funky cans.
 
Stax Lambda normal that Spritzer on head fi modded a bit and the srd-7 that came with it. then a pair of Headphile modded akg 340s w/ gold cable and a SQ-84 amp with some big honkin J&J tubes. Sold the amp to a producer of a Mr. Robert Plants music. ROBERT PLANT LISTENS TO MY OLD SETUP!!

That is pretty good imo. Also, I am an idiot for selling that combo.

K1000 was great but the bass was hard to come by. Even with the SQ-84 and speaker hookups to the K1000. Awesome, do not get me wrong. Just not the best. Stax are better overall. Just faster than anything else. Well, the new orthos are probably the new kings to some. I think Stax are better even with less slam than the orthos. I have yet to hear one though. I would have to sell my speaker gear though. Can't just collect toys in this economy. DAMMIT!
 
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I've had my DT 990 Pro for over a year. I use them strictly for gaming and they never disappoint. Comfort is excellent, too.
 
Deathwish238 said:
I was hoping the onboard would be good enough...but nope, it's not.

What type of music do you listen to? Is gaming your main concern? Are you willing to get an amp?
Click to expand...

I listen to mostly electronic dance music, and I do a little production too.

I'd lean more towards gaming as my main concern, but not by much. I really like to use CMSS-3M/Dolby Headphne when gaming, thats the feature I miss the most.

I am willing to get an amp and/or soundcard. I currently use a pair of AD700, and I'm considering the AD900. What would you suggest to pair up with these headphones?
 
So I received the AD900s. I'm not prepared to comment on the sound, but I can give the following first impressions on the comfort:

They are, as expected, very similar to the AD700s. The frame design is the same except they clamp slightly tighter, but this could be a product of extensive use on the AD700s for the last 4 years. They are not tight enough to cause me any discomfort, still far looser than, say the DT990s or K702s. The frame is cast magnesium instead of plastic, so they are slightly lighter (~30 grams). On paper it all sounds great, right?

Well, AT made a stupid design decision. There is a subtle difference in the angle of the drivers inside the ear cups. On the AD700, they are angled front to back away from your head. This gives sufficient space for someone of my ear size to fit their ears comfortable inside. On the AD900, the driver is not angled in this way. What this means is that the cups are not deep enough to fully encompass my ears, and so the back part of my ear presses against a little piece of plastic inside the cup. This effect is quite annoying, and it baffles me why they designed them with effectively shallower earcups.

My ears are not large either. I'm not Ross Perot. In fact, I'd say they are rather small and certainly close tucked into my head compared to some people I've met. This problem can be remedied somewhat by wearing the headphones a little ways forward on your head so that your ears sit further back in the cups. It doesn't get rid of it entirely, but it lessens the effect.

Disappointing, yes, but I'm not prepared to call it a dealbreaker. I'll comment on the sound later on once I've listened to them for longer.

EDIT: So a bit of research has revealed this to be a common problem with the higher end range of Audio Technica headphones and, like the audiophile nerds they are, many forms of a mod generally called the "Phatpad Mod" have been formulated.

I have not tried it yet myself, but for anyone with the AD700, you've probably noticed that there is a little bit of space underneath the inner ring of the earpads. If you put your finger underneath, you can pull it up just a little bit, increasing the space between the pads and the driver. Basically, the mod involves putting "something" into this space in order to stretch the pads out away from the driver grilles in the headphones, this providing a slightly more spacious interior for ones ears.

The typical media used to perform this mod is around a half-inch wide flexible plastic tubing like from diving or from a fish tank. You coil it up into itself so that it's the right diameter and then stuff it under the pads to give them a little lift. This guy here used basically some scrap cloth. Gonna try it now, and pray that it makes this better.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/342659/audio-technica-earpad-mod
 
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I totally concur on the DT-990 comfort. I worked in a few audio research labs, and tried many high end headphones over the years. DT-990 Pros were the only ones I ever bothered to remember the name of. I loved the sound, I love the fact that they're open, so you don't feel like you're isolated from the world. And even after wearing them for 5+ hours, I barely noticed I was wearing them... well other than the cord.

So when I decided I needed my own pair of high end headphones, that's the model I went with. I mainly use the 990s for when I need to do some critical listening. And sometimes I do wish I had a pair of closed ear phones for that, mainly because the noise floor in my computer room is so terrible.

Even given my lousy noise floor, I wouldn't trade them for any other pair of headphones. Now I'd trade them for any number of speaker setups. For non-critical listening, I do prefer speakers, but that's another topic. And I might someday add a pair of closed ear phones, DT-770s perhaps...

I wish Beyer would launch an open ear version of the MMX-300. And I wish I had another room to stick all my computers in... I have a feeling I'm going to get my 2nd wish first...
 
krameriffic said:
Well, AT made a stupid design decision. There is a subtle difference in the angle of the drivers inside the ear cups. On the AD700, they are angled front to back away from your head. This gives sufficient space for someone of my ear size to fit their ears comfortable inside. On the AD900, the driver is not angled in this way. What this means is that the cups are not deep enough to fully encompass my ears, and so the back part of my ear presses against a little piece of plastic inside the cup. This effect is quite annoying, and it baffles me why they designed them with effectively shallower earcups.

My ears are not large either. I'm not Ross Perot. In fact, I'd say they are rather small and certainly close tucked into my head compared to some people I've met. This problem can be remedied somewhat by wearing the headphones a little ways forward on your head so that your ears sit further back in the cups. It doesn't get rid of it entirely, but it lessens the effect.

Disappointing, yes, but I'm not prepared to call it a dealbreaker. I'll comment on the sound later on once I've listened to them for longer.

EDIT: So a bit of research has revealed this to be a common problem with the higher end range of Audio Technica headphones and, like the audiophile nerds they are, many forms of a mod generally called the "Phatpad Mod" have been formulated.

I have not tried it yet myself, but for anyone with the AD700, you've probably noticed that there is a little bit of space underneath the inner ring of the earpads. If you put your finger underneath, you can pull it up just a little bit, increasing the space between the pads and the driver. Basically, the mod involves putting "something" into this space in order to stretch the pads out away from the driver grilles in the headphones, this providing a slightly more spacious interior for ones ears.

The typical media used to perform this mod is around a half-inch wide flexible plastic tubing like from diving or from a fish tank. You coil it up into itself so that it's the right diameter and then stuff it under the pads to give them a little lift. This guy here used basically some scrap cloth. Gonna try it now, and pray that it makes this better.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/342659/audio-technica-earpad-mod
Click to expand...

Yup that works. Not being mean or trollish but just funny and helpful based on the same experience with the AD900s with the following:

What also works is getting a pair of Beyer 880s with the awesome velour pads, larger and more accurate soundstage. Etc.

Oh btw there is a pair of Darth beyer extra deeps or VX3s on headfi for $250. That is a FUN headphone. I would rather spend the money on some Stax Lambdas and a SRD7 but that is a hard find used these days. For a reason, they rule for the money.

Go Beyer unless you want to go up the AT scale and get one of their upper tier cans. Those are comfortable for sure. The AD900 design is DUMB and they have never done anything about it. Flat ass pads.
 
Xikan said:
I listen to mostly electronic dance music, and I do a little production too.

I'd lean more towards gaming as my main concern, but not by much. I really like to use CMSS-3M/Dolby Headphne when gaming, thats the feature I miss the most.

I am willing to get an amp and/or soundcard. I currently use a pair of AD700, and I'm considering the AD900. What would you suggest to pair up with these headphones?
Click to expand...

I would get a good DAC to pair your ADX00 with. They're easy to drive headphones, so you'll notice the biggest difference from having a really good source. I'm not sure what the best DAC/source that supports CMSS-3M and Dolby Headphone are. I chose my E-MU 0404 USB for its musical sound quality and being able to work with a laptop.

Under $250 you have a lot of options. Have you browsed Head-fi much?


The Asus Xonar is popular for its quality DAC. For $200 it has Dolby Headphone and Dolby Digital support. The amp built in is higher quality too. That's the nicer $200 model, there's a $90 model as well. However, it's built in so you're relying on your computer. If you get an external DAC or DAC/Amp combo...you'll be able to have some portability and use it without a computer.


stewartjm said:
I totally concur on the DT-990 comfort. I worked in a few audio research labs, and tried many high end headphones over the years. DT-990 Pros were the only ones I ever bothered to remember the name of. I loved the sound, I love the fact that they're open, so you don't feel like you're isolated from the world. And even after wearing them for 5+ hours, I barely noticed I was wearing them... well other than the cord.

So when I decided I needed my own pair of high end headphones, that's the model I went with. I mainly use the 990s for when I need to do some critical listening. And sometimes I do wish I had a pair of closed ear phones for that, mainly because the noise floor in my computer room is so terrible.

Even given my lousy noise floor, I wouldn't trade them for any other pair of headphones. Now I'd trade them for any number of speaker setups. For non-critical listening, I do prefer speakers, but that's another topic. And I might someday add a pair of closed ear phones, DT-770s perhaps...

I wish Beyer would launch an open ear version of the MMX-300. And I wish I had another room to stick all my computers in... I have a feeling I'm going to get my 2nd wish first...
Click to expand...

I've always wanted to get a pair of Darth Beyers for when I want isolation and a great sound. Consider getting a pair!
 
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Deathwish238 said:
The Asus Xonar is popular for its quality DAC. For $200 it has Dolby Headphone and Dolby Digital support. The amp built in is higher quality too. That's the nicer $200 model, there's a $90 model as well. However, it's built in so you're relying on your computer.
Click to expand...
For gaming, would the DX be a good choice for ad700s? Or could I get away with the lowly DG? I am using the onboard on my DFI LP x48(Bernstein audio module with ALC885 codec). I will be using headphones 90% of the time. And of my time, 90% of that will be gaming.
 
The DG has a headphone amp while the higher priced DX does not. The DG is quite a bargain for the price and performance.
 
Deathwish238 said:
I was hoping the onboard would be good enough...but nope, it's not.

What type of music do you listen to? Is gaming your main concern? Are you willing to get an amp?
Click to expand...

Onboard audio is fine as long as you have an Amp. lol.

I use a M-Audio 24/96 + Amp from my mixer. Perfect.

ATH M-50
 
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