One in Two People Say They Won’t Fly in Fully Automated Aircraft

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    You may also realize that the realities behind the yoke of a Cessna is a bit different than an Airbus A320. The prior can barely fly straight without a pilot where the latter is extremely advanced in automated control.

    The TCAS systems require pilot input CURRENTLY, yes. That doesn't mean that also that couldn't be automated. Actually there is at least one midair crash where the pilot chose to ignore the TCAS avoidance direction and pulled into the wrong way, causing a collision. Despite frequent pilot errors, current systems are designed to rely partly in the pilot, this is clear. Technologically speaking however it is already possible to create a fully autonomous flight as multiple drones already show. Airfields can easily be upgraded to specification anywhere where autonomous flight is required. It's simply a matter of cost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  2. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
     
  3. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    TCAS is a great tool in the cockpit but it does only one thing really well but lacks SA in just about everything else around the jet. I've only had to ignore it once for safety reasons but regardless, appreciated having it every time.
     
  4. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    No. Lol

    Will a person or a computer do better with the following--
    What's considered flat--a school yard or a corn field?
    New development that has not been pushed into nav DB that makes terrain no longer flat/uninhibited?
    Waterways that have cruises/taxies/ferry/bridges/powerlines?
    Attempt the landing across or with the chop/waves?
    Flap setting? Gusty winds usually drive different configuration

    Depending on the jet--loss of control surface do occur with loss of engine powered systems
     
  5. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh shit, it's that simple!

    Fuck me! I need to quit my job.
     
  6. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    98%? of what?

    $/profits and lack of regulatory guidance. Want pilots with more stick time? I'd expect your ticket price to increase to fund it.

    Don't get me wrong here but the increased automation/computers are great and it enhances pilot SA, decision making, and task management. Such systems are good while operating in the normal flight regime however it should never hinder a pilots abilities manipulate the jet during a catastrophic event.

    Teslas need their driver overrides, jets are no different.

    Most?
     
  7. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Why do you assume that the computer wouldn't be able to tell the difference between corn and kids? Or that it would be making navigational decisions based solely on its GPS database rather than the multitude of sensors and scanners it would be equipped with?
     
  8. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Of 100% :D
     
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  9. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    That'd make them more capable than a lot of our mil aircraft and cost quite a bit of money. What you're saying is not unreasonable but won't be realistic for quite some time. DAFIF/nav DB/Jep currently do not include those kinds of details.
     
  10. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    I'll gladly pay the extra cost. I'm not willing to let a company use their profits as a reason gamble on the loss of one autonomous airliner vs paying a pilot union.

    Source? I googled "Sully is an asshole" and didn't find anything. Not everyone gets along in any industry that's out there.

    I do both but couldn't do one or the either as long as I have the ability. High flying gets me places, smaller gets me upside down.

    That pitot system was jacked. Hypothetically in a world of complete automation, how quickly could they push updated and tested code to the entire fleet without downtime? Jets can stay airborne with an informed crew.

    And Simultaneous Approaches to Parallel Runways!

    Or that was just a police officer who walked the beat vs CCTV
    Doctor vs robot surgery
    English speaking customer service vs programmed voice menu

    There's that "most" word again. Channelized attention is what you're describing.

    True.
     
  11. rhexis

    rhexis Gawd

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    i fly a lot as a passenger and no freaking way would i fly on a plane without 2 or maybe 3 humans that know how to work it.
     
  12. amarvin125

    amarvin125 Limp Gawd

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    [​IMG]

    As long at the stewardess is properly trained we will be fine...
     
  13. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, it's Robocop vs human walking the beat.
    Doctors already use robots for fine surgery delicate enough to require extreme precision and magnification. The human body just isn't accurate enough. AI can make faster and more accurate cancer diagnosis on tissue samples than humans already.
    You really compare an Airbus autopilot to a programmed voice menu? Boy you have a lot to learn.

    Most aircraft accidents occur due to pilot error (one in two accidents actually): http://rblaw.net/5-most-common-causes-of-plane-crashes/
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  14. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I guess you'll never take an autonomous car ride then either.
     
  15. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Once again you demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. You also have no idea what I fly. That fact aside a Cessna is an extremely stable aircraft posses both positive static and dynamic stability. Which is precisely why they are used for training!
     
  16. bb_forrest

    bb_forrest n00b

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    I decided to get a friend of mine to email a friend of his about flying without a pilot.

    This person's answer was "Not a chance of getting me in the plane".

    You may of heard of him - his name is Charles Yeager, obviously he knows less about flying than you do.
     
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  17. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you begin to compare the autopilot capabilities of a Cessna to the A320 I highly doubt your pilot background. Did you even read the 2009 introduced fully automated TCAS certification I posted? The one you said can't be done without a pilot? :)
     
  18. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Did you read the part of my post where I objected to your ability to call a Cessna unable to fly straight with a pilot as a wholly inaccurate statement?

    Youre TCAS argument is not relevant. I was using TCAS as mentioned by a previous poster to show input is input regardless of the control manipulated.

    Bottom line is you have demonstrated a stunning lack of real world knowledge about aircraft and have refused to listen to experts who have commented on this thread. Reading a few articles on the internet and fooling around in a simulator does not make you an expert.
     
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  19. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Blah blah. I never even mentioned Cessnas stability in my post. I told its autopilot can barely keep it level as opposed to the extremely advanced automation found in the A320.

    Your small plane experience seems to cloud your vision. The big boys fly in a totally different league.
     
  20. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    You sir are nothing more than a troll. I quote you:

    Now go back to your dark bridge.
     
  21. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I can't help it if your reading comprehension is too poor to understand that the subject of the discussion was the autopilot.

    You seem to have zero knowledge on how advanced the modern autopilot systems are so I'm not going to waste any more typing time with you. Like I said, your Cessna experience has clouded your judgment. The big airliners are like supercomputers compared to the small consumer aircraft.
     
  22. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    You have no idea what I fly. Many more than just small aircraft. Good luck with your closed mind.
     
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  23. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    Robocop--you mean the movie where the man was driving (piloting) the machine suit?



    Correct, doctors are directly supervising and manipulating these machines. Piloted.



    But you said
    and then you said...
    and now you just said...
    Which one of your statements is the accurate one? They all can't be "most."
    BTW technically, one in two is half...not most.



    Autonomous cars require human monitoring and intervention/override when it makes a mistake.



    C'mon dude, don't be like that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  24. CharonPDX

    CharonPDX Gawd

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    Off the record conversations with multiple pilots. They were basically all threatened with negative consequences if they said anything bad about Sully in public.
     
  25. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Maybe their gossip is true but it seems strange that it would matter one way or the other or that anyone would threaten them if they said anything negative in public. I mean, what would motivate them to say anything negative in public? It certainly wasn't relevant to anything he was in the news for doing.

    Reporter: "That sure was an incredible landing!"
    Random pilot: "He's an asshole in person."

    What would be the point of that? "Negative consequences" probably meant someone with any sense warned them that they'd just come across like a douchebag.
     
  26. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Probably a PR thing. The media billed him as a hero and the airline most likely wanted to play off of that to increase passenger counts. Your own employees making public statements (think media mostly is my guess) that contradicted him or cast him in another light would likely harm that effort in their eyes. So policy issued.

    Stupid? Absolutely.
     
  27. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I understand that. My point was questioning the motives of whoever was badmouthing him, not the motives of whoever supposedly was restricting it.

    Badmouthing a guy behind his back, regardless of accuracy, just comes across as a jealous asshole to pretty much everyone else, imo.
     
  28. OldGator

    OldGator Limp Gawd

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    The only time I ever ride in anything automated is when it's enclosed, separated, and not part of a network - such as a tram going from one part of an airport to another.

    An automated car out in the open world? I'll never ride in one as long as I live.
     
  29. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Ah understood. Yeah badmouthing is just unprofessional anyway.
     
  30. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    No I mean the fully autonomous monster in the movie.
    For the time being. Progress is advancing to automated procedures.

    Your reading comprehension is poor. The phrase one of the most does not equal the most for starters. And if you would have understood what you read you would concur that those situations I mentioned lead to pilot errors and caused the crashes.
    Technically one in two is most when there are more than two possible causes for a crash. Which there obviously are. Math comprehension please.

    Wrong. Humans are required in helm only because of legislation. Autonomous cars can operate very successfully (they're on the streets as we speak and have way lower accident ratios than human driven cars on average).

    But it is like that. Sorry.