OMG OMG I FOUND A CASE!!!!

[ryuji]

zalman deathstar

lol never thought of them that way, when i used to do air cooling i always thought they looked badass tho

 

[Xylo]

Yea, looks ok (big!), but of course I can find about 2 billion different cases with that ventilation system.

You can??...do tell! I've found only a couple. And of those, the ones that take eATX?...just the one, I think?

If you know of any other 120mm front and 120mm rear, nice black (pref. alum.) midtowers, I'm interested in hearing more...

The two cases in this thread interest me b/c of the dual 120mm exhaust (my primary concern). I'm guessing they are going to be available for the Back to School rush.

Looking at the Gigabyte again, it *is* very nice...designed for water-cooling even w/ tube holes on the back...heh...absolutely nothing on their website that I could find about it yet though...sigh. Might try to e-mail them later...

 

[Russ]

well, eATX isn't part of the ventilation system. To name a few cheap ones, the Aerocool Magic 3D and Thermaltake Tsunami.

 

[jonnyGURU]

TT PSU's are GARBAGE. DON'T buy into their labeled specifications!!! They are SO innacurate its not even funny.

They're not garbage. Just grossly underpowered for today's machines (Why would a 480W have only 18A on the 12V rail? Because all of the power is on the 5V rail!)

But the TWV500 is a completely different story. It can do 18A on each of two 12V rails simultaneously. I've load tested one well beyond 500W with an 18A load on each of the 12V rails and it didn't even get warm.

If only we didn't have to pay for the stupid, useless, TWV panel and knock another $20 off the price it'd be something worth talking about. I hate paying for useless toys that don't serve any purpose that I'm never going to use.

 

[ryuji]

how loud is the fan in the psu tho my 535w enermax handles the load of my whole system silently being little more then a little warm durring heavy gaming

 

[jonnyGURU]

Without the controller (letting the fan work off of it's own thermistor) the fan can get pretty loud under heavy loads. Amazingly enough, Enermax's two 80's are still quieter than Thermaltake's one 120MM.

That said, the PSU does come with a fan controller and at full RPM the thing didn't even get warm, so it's easy to say you could manually slow the fan down to an acceptable noise level and still provide proper cooling.

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

thats still a stop gap solution. why go through the hassle of adjusting fan speeds on a a component that should be completely transparent to the operation of a computing system?! i just don't get it. it's like people on this forum like to buy something shitty and then try to make it work better when they could get something good to begin with and not have the hassle! the TT's are even more expensive than good brands that are quiet and reliable.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Again, the TWV500's fan is quiet without the fan controller, but there are quieter ones out there. And, yes; they are expensive. But if someone WANTS to spend the money on one, I'm not going to say it's garbage. Just because something is overpriced doesn't make it garbage.

 

[ryuji]

the fan controller knob on my enermax doesnt do anything to fan speed, it must be broken, doesnt matter, i pull about 400 watts of power (measured with multimeter)and it only gets warm and stays silent , im happy

and it isnt 2 80mm fans, its a 80mm and a 92 mm fan or were you not referencing the thermaltake vs my psu

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

Again, the TWV500's fan is quiet without the fan controller, but there are quieter ones out there. And, yes; they are expensive. But if someone WANTS to spend the money on one, I'm not going to say it's garbage. Just because something is overpriced doesn't make it garbage.

Why would you WANT to spend money on something that's not a good value? Why wouldn't someone recommend getting something like a Fortron or Zippy, which is an excellent PSU at a good price?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Why would you WANT to spend money on something that's not a good value?

I wouldn't. But then again, I wouldn't drive a luxury rice burner either. I'm just saying that because it's I don't think it's a good deal doesn't make it garbage. What you and I see as a value may not matter to someone else.

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

Luxury rice burner?

 

[Russ]

Why are we talking about TT PSUs? pretty OT lol....

BTW, I'd never buy one. I'm real big on value stuff, getting what I pay for and such. Priceerformance ratio is one of my primary concerns.

edit: alright, let's put this back on track. Here's the system I hope to be putting into this bad boy:
Cooling:
Arctic Silver Ceramique $5.99

water cooling:
. CPU Block and Pump:
. 1 Danger Den Copper TDX and DD12V-D5 combo $108.75
. GPU Block:
. 2 Low Profile MAZE4 GPU block with 8 RAMsinks $46.45 + RAMsinks (OOS atm)
. Radiator:
. 1 Black Ice Pro II $35.99
. 2 Panaflo 120mm M1A $9.75 x2 = $19.50
. alternative:
. 1 Double Heater Core with shroud $48.94
. 2 Panaflo High Speed 120mm FBA12G 12U1C $17.99 x2 = $35.98
. Reservoir:
. 1 DD single 5 1/4 bay $17.95
. Tubing:
. 1 Tygon 3/8" ID 10 ft x $2.35 = $23.50
. Fittings:
. 1 1/4 NPT Fittings for 3/8" ID tubing $1.00 x 4 = $4.00
. 2 Polypropylene "Elbow" 2 x $1.75 = $3.50
. Clamps:
. 1 Metal Worm Clamps - hardware store $?
. Other:
. 1 MCT -40 water additive $0.00 (gift w/ >$100 order)
. 2 6" Velcro $2.49

I got the velcro to fix my pump in place and the elbows/fittings to be safe.
watercooling total: $262.13

any changed reccomended? I think I am gonna find a different dealer for the fans, they are just too expensive. Should I get a BIP2 or a double heatercore? What would be the difference in cooling and noise (notice that I am using different Panaflo models for each one)? Which one is worth it?

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

Well if you're looking for best cost/value ratio I wouldn't even go with a water cooled setup.

It's more of a novelty than a necessity unless you're running a supercomputer that has thousands of processors which are densely packed. i.e. a waste of money for PC users in general.

It's more of a novelty really and it uses a ton of power to boot, so if you've got it on all the time your electric bill will be noticably larger. It is a cool thing to say you have I guess, but at the PC level, little more than that in the end.

 

[Russ]

Water cooling will allow me to safely OC my CPU and GPU a lot. To me that makes it worth it because 1 OCing is fun, and 2 I don't pay a lot of money on a proc (I would say GPU too, but I'm spending a hell of a lot on it anyway, it'll just be that much better. GPUs are different.).

The 3800+ is $369. With air cooling you can probably OC it to 2.6-2.8 ghz. If I get a 3000+ for $120 and water cool it, I am pretty much assured of 2.7 ghz or so. Same performance, no? And I save $240 AND it's quieter. That makes watercooling worth it to me.

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

Water cooling will allow me to safely OC my CPU and GPU a lot. To me that makes it worth it because 1 OCing is fun, and 2 I don't pay a lot of money on a proc (I would say GPU too, but I'm spending a hell of a lot on it anyway, it'll just be that much better. GPUs are different.).

The 3800+ is $369. With air cooling you can probably OC it to 2.6-2.8 ghz. If I get a 3000+ for $120 and water cool it, I am pretty much assured of 2.7 ghz or so. Same performance, no? And I save $240 AND it's quieter. That makes watercooling worth it to me.

How do you figure its cheaper? 120 for CPU+260 for WC is 380 dollars. that's 10 dollars more than the 3800+...

There's no such thing as an "assured" or "safe" overclock either. It's a risk you're taking in the hope that you'll gain some performance from it.

 

[Lord of Shadows]

One can build a great wc system for ~$200 and overclocking is alot safer than some would have you believe.

 

[ikellensbro]

Courtesy of Urban Dictionary:
1. trolling
Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.
Guy: "I just found the coolest ninja pencil in existence."
Other Guy: "I just found the most retarded thread in existence."
Source: EREALLY GUD DEFUNITION MAKUR, Nov 11, 2004

4. Trolling
To use the internet to start problems, insult, or hurt others. An action that only usually affects the person trolling.
Usually a very bored, lonely person with no friends. Or a punk ass kid.
"My AOL account was shut down because I was trolling in a chatroom."
Source: tmofft, Jan 22, 2005

11. trolling
Holding up a bag of dope at a club or bar to try and get a girls attention. Trying to get her to bite.
I went trolling last night at the club. I dangled a teener of crystal in the air and three girls came over and started making conversation.
Source: Beezy, Mar 31, 2005

12. trolling
BossNoodleKaboodle's posts in this thread.



Really, you are talking out of your ass, which is the perfect phrase to describe what you're saying:

Well if you're looking for best cost/value ratio I wouldn't even go with a water cooled setup.

It's more of a novelty than a necessity unless you're running a supercomputer that has thousands of processors which are densely packed. i.e. a waste of money for PC users in general.

It's more of a novelty really and it uses a ton of power to boot, so if you've got it on all the time your electric bill will be noticably larger. It is a cool thing to say you have I guess, but at the PC level, little more than that in the end.

With peltiers, you may have a point with the extra work needed for insulating and an extra psu able to supply the necessary amps to power a larger pelt, but none of what you're saying applies to regualr water cooling. Pumps only use 10-20 watts, so I'm pretty sure that won't make much of an impact on your electricity bill. Loops can last through many upgrades by purchasing any needed additional mounting plates for new hardware, while the cpu & hsf quite possibly will have to be replaced after an upgrade, especially when changing platforms. For pure and simple pricing, air will almost always be less. The question is which option gives you more value.

Your 'water cooling is only needed for running supercomputers'statement is completely flawed, first in that supercomputers are not cooled with loops such as those we in this forum assemble. It is obvious that you have either never used water cooling before, or really mesed up and didn't get what you wanted from a kit, because you have no concept of what water cooling lets you do. You can use fewer, quieter fans with a properly assembled loop, achieve much cooler temperatures enabling you to use higher voltages and more stability than air, giving you a much better chance of getting higher OCs.

How do you figure its cheaper? 120 for CPU+260 for WC is 380 dollars. that's 10 dollars more than the 3800+...

There's no such thing as an "assured" or "safe" overclock either. It's a risk you're taking in the hope that you'll gain some performance from it.

That price for the loop is also cooling a gpu, enabling higher potential OCs there as well as the cpu. Unless you've been living under a rock the last couple of months, you would have seen almost all reviews of Venices OCing to 2.7 or much higher with better cooling, such as water cooling. Yes, there is no assurance of getting to 2.0 on a 3000+ Venice, but that is part of the fun in OCing, something you obviously don't have much appreciation for.

BossNoodleKaboodle, you really need to stop talking out of your ass, do some research, and find out why there have been over 2,700 threads and more than 33,000 posts made in a forum about a topic that is

more of a novelty than a necessity unless you're running a supercomputer that has thousands of processors which are densely packed. i.e. a waste of money for PC users in general.

and is

more of a novelty really and it uses a ton of power to boot, so if you've got it on all the time your electric bill will be noticably larger. It is a cool thing to say you have I guess, but at the PC level, little more than that in the end.

So ends my much too long post .

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

3800+ with good air cooling OC'ed cost/value ratio > complicated, even more expensive watercooled 3000+ /end argument

didn't he say something about cost value ratio???

your urban dictionary of bullshit words doesn't impress me either.

 

[Russ]

well 1, watercooling is more fun. 2, it looks cooler, and 3, it's quieter.

being picky: a good cost/value ratio would be low, so you are agreeing with me by saying the 3800+ air has a ">" ratio than a 3000+ water. But I digress...

A 3800+ with good air would add about $50 to the price (making the respective options relatively equal), and you probably wouldn't get more than 2.8-2.9 out of it (Check out the Rev. E overclocking database). Meanwhile, a 3000+ with good water will probably be able to hit 300HTT comfortably, or 2.7ghz. Yea, you will be 100-200 mhz better than me, but I will have a MUCH cooler AND faster GPU, turning the tables in games (only thing where more than a 1.8 Duron matters) back towards the 3000+.

Your argument is no more than saying "My way is right. Discussion over." Oh, and FYI, "troll" isn't a UD bullshit word, it is quite common on the internet, and those definitions (besides 12) fit it very well.

 

[ryuji]

water cooling is cheeper long run, you save power because you only need to cool the radiator and run the pump, instead of needing a ton of high rpm high power consumption fans

second part about it is adapting the water cooling blocks to ANY cpu or graphics card past or future costs about $15 compared to a new heat sink costing $50-60

third part which has been mentioned clear enough but i will say again, water cooling is quieter then air cooling, sure air cooling can be silent if you sacrafice preformance but water out preforms even the noisiest air cooling, at low noise

a higher fsb lower rated cpu at simmalar clock speed will kick the ass of the higher rated cpu at stock fsb

 

[Russ]

back on track:
Anyone got any comments on the Antec Sonata?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129127 $99

Someone said they could fit a 120.2 rad in it w/o modding, but I don't see how.

 

[Xylo]

well, eATX isn't part of the ventilation system. To name a few cheap ones, the Aerocool Magic 3D and Thermaltake Tsunami.

Haven't looked at the Aerocool, and *almost* bought the Tsunami (still might)...

 

[Xylo]

So, Russ, in the Gigabyte, where would you mount your 120.2 rad?...right up against the back two fan areas?...or?...

 

[BossNoodleKaboodle]

Has anyone actually seen and touched an Aerocool or Tsunami? I have and I was disgusted at all the bits you can just break off with your finger. You'll want to get some serious axle grease for those hinges too. *squeak squeak* Not to mention the gap spacing regularity is on par with a Yugo. I've never handled that Gigabyte case, but I'd be willing to wager its much better than either of the others.

 

[Xylo]

Has anyone actually seen and touched an Aerocool or Tsunami? I have and I was disgusted at all the bits you can just break off with your finger.

The Tsunami I saw was quite nice...no "breakable with finger" parts...

You'll want to get some serious axle grease for those hinges too. *squeak squeak* Not to mention the gap spacing regularity is on par with a Yugo. I've never handled that Gigabyte case, but I'd be willing to wager its much better than either of the others.

Anecdotal evidence...and when 20 others say they have cases that don't squeak, well...

 

[Russ]

about the mounting, in the back yeah. I'll take out the 1000 rpm stuff they ship it with and mount it with my panaflos + BIP2.

You can see that I am very close to finishing buying everything here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=898255

I am going to use my old case to fit everythign in for now and buy the Gigabyte when it comes out. We are getting some prices in several different places. The most common is $130 or 85 pounds. One site said $100 though. I doubt it will be that low

 

[Xylo]

about the mounting, in the back yeah. I'll take out the 1000 rpm stuff they ship it with and mount it with my panaflos + BIP2.

You can see that I am very close to finishing buying everything here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=898255

I am going to use my old case to fit everythign in for now and buy the Gigabyte when it comes out. We are getting some prices in several different places. The most common is $130 or 85 pounds. One site said $100 though. I doubt it will be that low

Yeah, $130 is right...

So going to mount your radiator against the back, then your fans inside, sucking air in?... What else are you doing for air cooling?...PSU out and front in, I assume?...what else? I'm trying to figure out how to do the air in a case like that if I mount over both of the back 120mm's...

 

[Xylo]

I'm really wondering how easy it would be to cut out the mesh and more on the side and more, and make a big window....would be hard to judge without seeing a close up of the side panel and how the mesh is made into it, I think...

 

[delusion_2005]

Woah awesome looking case.

 

[Russ]

well what I mean is I'll probably have both the rad and fans inside the case, with the fans sucking air out the back. I'll have the 120mm in front sucking air in, and I'll probably have a spare fan blowing air over the ram (mounted completely inside the case, maybe taped to the side.)

The grate on the side will let in any air that needs to, if I have air being sucked through the rad, then it will come from the air right behind the rad in the case, right? That's right next to the grate, so cool air will probably be coming to the rad even though it's inside the case!

Here's an ascii version of what I'm talking about ( "<" is air flow):
< | F R
.< | A A (Cool air from grate)
.< | N D
< | S .

That cool air would be warm in any other case because the CPU and GPU will have heated it up since it would have flowed across the entire mobo. Just another reason to love the Gigabyte!

I am placing an order for one tommorow if I can.

 

[L0s7_4_Lyf3]

holy shit you gave me such a good idea (prolly unoriginal) why not mod one of those old crappy filing cabnets for my computer and radbox.

Ya, I know a guy that did that.
http://www.modestolan.com/articles/jdacura/fileserver/

 

[overwhelming]

That's one ugly case IMO.

 

[Xylo]

well what I mean is I'll probably have both the rad and fans inside the case, with the fans sucking air out the back. I'll have the 120mm in front sucking air in, and I'll probably have a spare fan blowing air over the ram (mounted completely inside the case, maybe taped to the side.)

The grate on the side will let in any air that needs to, if I have air being sucked through the rad, then it will come from the air right behind the rad in the case, right? That's right next to the grate, so cool air will probably be coming to the rad even though it's inside the case!

That cool air would be warm in any other case because the CPU and GPU will have heated it up since it would have flowed across the entire mobo.

Well, not really sure how that would all be significantly different from a side-mounted fan?...probably just misunderstanding something...

In any case, I was thinking about this...Suppose, the two air-flow scenarios (in any case):

1) PSU out, front 120mm in, two 120mm on rad sucking out through the back
2) PSU out, front 120mm in, two 120mm on rad sucking in from the back

I'm guessing neither one of those scenarios would work very well without at the very minimum without some additional grating or similar somewhere?...or probably, more likely, another fan leading in for scenario one or blowing out for scenario 2??...

The Gigabyte has the big side grate... I wonder if in another case a small grate in the top or side (or even bottom??) would be enough??...

 

[Russ]

eh, I'm not worried about it too much. The rad will reduce actual air flow more than a free flowing fan on the front.

But check out this e-mail that the place I ordered the case from sent me:

The comments for your order are

Sorry but we do not send these units overseas, I have to cancel your order, you card has not been charged, my appologies about the inconveniance.


Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Cancelled

I'm pissed.