OLED is coming!

[laguerre]

I don't think that there is hostility to positive news about OLEDs, at least not in this forum/thread. If anything, there is frustration among enthusiasts that the promising OLED technology is taking so long to come to market for use in monitors and TVs. If I could buy a good 24-30" OLED monitor or 46"+ OLED TV for a reasonable price in 2010 or 2011 I'd be grinning from ear to ear, as would many other people who visit this forum. However, many [H] forum members, including myself, do not think that is a reasonable expectation given the current information available.

[H]ard Forum is driven by it's members. When members are utilizing this site for only GenMay, I hardly see this as a demand for new technology.

Kyle recently did a USB 3.0 Preview. But this hardly garnered the attention it should have deserved. There are quite a few USB 3.0 devices out there and more coverage and interest will help to drive USB 3.0 into the mainstream market. Without Intel's support the implementation will ride much more on consumer demand than it will on proactive companies. The amount of people bashing USB 3.0 in this forum outweighs the people supporting it's adoption into current motherboard lineups. There's more to USB 3.0 than faster speeds.

The same thing with displayport. We're all excited about Eyefinity, and a 5870 Eyefinity Edition video card, except there is a larger interest in active-adapters instead of DP monitors. Where is the cry for DP monitors? Just like new video cards, why don't we see a bunch of monitors in the F/S section and people upgrading to the newest tech? And we're on the cusp of DP 1.2 coming out. Where is the discussion of the abilities of DP and DP 1.2 and it's inclusion into existing monitors?

10e did a review of the BenQ V2400W. It's been a while and I'm not up to reading the whole thread again, but the opportunity was made possible by [H]ard Forum interest (and Kyle). If this sort of interest AND focus can motivate a company to showcase it's products on this Forum before, I don't see why it can't happen again. The great thing about the Displays Forum is specific model discussion is usually organized, technical, with a true forum type critique. And the Displays Forum is consistently in the top 5 viewed Forum (and it has no subforum within).

While I'm not in complete agreement with adamj023, I do believe a higher standard of discussion can be aspired to. Supporting manufacturers with a lack of expectation is little help. Granted, I don't want to see your hopes get dashed when you were expecting OLEDs to be present in 2009, but you can introduce a lively debate that companies can take interest in and try to answer. There would be nothing better than seeing someone at [H]ard Forum reviewing an OLED here.

 

[Danevin]

No one is bashing OLED, in fact I believe we all can't wait for the technology to become available.

However, what myself and others think is that adamj023 has unreal expectations at the time line of this occurring.

 

[laguerre]

No one is bashing OLED, in fact I believe we all can't wait for the technology to become available.
However, what myself and others think is that adamj023 has unreal expectations at the time line of this occurring.

Perhaps you didn't mean it, but I would note that the technology is there, the demand, perhaps not. Without the demand, companies are not going to invest in ramping up their production.

... how about a display your looking for, a Sony KDL-ZX 27-inch OLED-TV from CES 2008 that may return at Sony CES 2010.

So tell me when SED displays are going to materialize?http://www.displayblog.com/2006/05/13/toshiba-sed-tv-in-2008/ Right...

CMEL 25-inch AMOLED Display

It's bad business to have customers waiting to purchasing new technology. Monitor manufacturers aren't going to tell you what they have for sale until they are ready to sell it, or trying to artificially compete. And they aren't going to introduce a new model until either old models lose sales or new models come with a higher profit margin. As a consumer, agreeing to follow along with standard business tactics only prolongs this effect.

With the market flooded with over-inflated LCDs, the profit margin is still good, but it's no longer just the industry leaders. Introducing OLED can shift that money back to the leaders' pockets.

Unlike arguing when Fermi is going be ready for sale, OLEDs have production models out. Many different manufacturers have shown the capability of producing working prototypes that are end user ready.

As far as unreal expectations, market speculation not production capability would be the debate. OLED manufacturers are not intricately tied to many other industries. If one manufacturer steps up and offers an affordable OLED solution, you can bet they won't be the only one for very long at all. The almost instantaneous release of competing OLEDs will be frightening.

 

[nomu]

If one manufacturer steps up and offers an affordable OLED solution, you can bet they won't be the only one for very long at all. The almost instantaneous release of competing OLEDs will be frightening.

Well that would be the part that sent this thread up in flames. What reason do we have to think there will be an affordable solution within a timeframe that would affect purchase decisions in the present? We know this stuff is going on sale sometime. What we don't know is if it will be like every other display technology ever and spend three+ years in the ultra luxury segment, or sweep all before it like the proclaimers say.

[H] is not just a technology site, it is a technology owners site. Everyone knows that OLED is superior to other technologies in every way we care about, but past a certain price point you run out of potential owners. So I think this far into the development of this technology, demos have entirely lost their impact. Put a currency figure next to that prototype and you might stir a little interest. So far we have had exactly one price signal from this emerging industry and it did not encourage anticipation of further offerings.

 

[wrangler]

I have to agree that a more responsible adult discourse is desirable. I would like for [H] to seem more than a collection of 12 year olds with nothing more to say than "cool story bro" and knee jerk reflex bashing of.........well, pretty much everything.

However, I do think the discussion of "affordable" OLED technology is highly premature. I held onto a Trinitron until late this year thinking something might happen but alas, it did not and I believe it will not for quite some time.

I do appreciate the info and pics that the gentleman, who has now left the forums, imparted to us all and I can also appreciate and relate to his level of enthusiasm. The Ars article, although more pessimistic, did seem to lend credence to some of his claims.

I hope it comes sooner than later. But......

Dirty bastards are dirty and the same dirty bastards that are involved with LCD are the same dirty bastards involved with OLED and they are far from through milking the LCD cow.....OLED technology will be affordable when they belive they have borged the last breath of a dollar they can grab on an LCD monitor. They will hang onto them and maximize their profits until the last breath of life is left and they are stabbing at us from hell's heart.

Just my .02.

 

[laguerre]

What reason do we have to think there will be an affordable solution within a timeframe that would affect purchase decisions in the present?

We, the consumer, are the reason! If we show interest and represent a segment of the market, we will be noticed.

If you expect 11" OLED to cost 2k, then that's what it will cost. You'll notice how as we get closer to the introduction of OLED, the information about the price of production gets more and more expensive. And yet, one of the features of OLED was it being a low cost solution. The relative lack of knowledge about OLED by consumers and the efforts on manufacturers to stamp a price premium on it has lead to this build-up of OLED.

We can accept this and think of OLED to be a giant leap forward in technology, or we can recognize it as the development of a competing technology to LCD... that must compete.

Sony sell it's Playstation 3s regardless if it's at a loss or not. To be in the market, to be competitive, it must. If one manufacturer steps forward and starts selling OLEDs that consumers can afford, regardless of what other actual manufacturer costs are, many other OLEDs will become available at a competitive price. And just as Sony understands, when you fail to innovate, when you fail to meet the expectations of consumers, you end up losing out. The PS4 you can guarantee won't be sold at a loss, and sure as hell won't be short on technology.

So, it takes but one manufacturer to step forward. Therefore, it takes but one cry for a consumer OLED to be heard.

 

[JamesB_999]

We, the consumer, are the reason! If we show interest and represent a segment of the market, we will be noticed.

If you expect 11" OLED to cost 2k, then that's what it will cost. ...

Sony sell it's Playstation 3s regardless if it's at a loss or not. To be in the market, to be competitive, it must. ...

So, it takes but one manufacturer to step forward. Therefore, it takes but one cry for a consumer OLED to be heard.

If technology enthusiasts posting on [H] Forum and other forums could "will" the technology they wish to purchase into existence, then there would be plenty of choices for 24" - 30" LCD monitors with IPS panels, LED backlighting, moderate matte finish, and A-TW polarizers on the market for less than $1000. Who knows, in they might even have uniform color across the whole display!

As for Sony, they may sell the hardware for a loss, but they (hopefully) make up for that with licensing and royalties on the games sold for the PS3. Same for Microsoft and the XBox 360. I'm sure Nintendo's Wii margins are slim, and the real $$$ is in the games.

Let the cry for OLED be heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[laguerre]

If technology enthusiasts posting on [H] Forum and other forums could "will" the technology they wish to purchase into existence, then there would be ...

I would counter that in my opinion you are only slightly mistaken. Enthusiasts posting on [H} Forum must advocate for OLED and then widespread support must be shown. The "will" has to be shown.

Take multiple screens as an example, it' s almost a subculture. Multiple screens have been around for decades, but the willingness for a company to support this in the mainstream has not happened. You can have a dedicated forum like WSGF, but just having a forum isn't enough. Fast forward a bit and we a company like ATI bringing it to the mainstream. Now, will this force the industry to follow suite? NO. Not unless consumers agree that anything less is unacceptable. Will this make manufacturers produce monitors that capitalize on this technology? NO. As said, the technology has been there for long enough, but the demand from consumers hasn't been.​

Now, IF Nvidia's sales suffer because of their lack of support, you can bet that not only will Nvidia take notice, but monitor manufacturers also. The number of Eyefinity threads here on [H] Forum has been great. Kyle & his crew have started threads that continue to grow and really convey the interest in Eyefinity. Anyone that comes onto [H] Forum would not hesitate to say that Eyefinity is a factor.​

Generally, for consumers to get what they want it requires companies to anticipate what will be important in the future. For them to gauge this, they can't be active on all the forums on the web to extract this vague general consensus. It first takes a few people to be articulate on what it is the community wants. Without this, you only get murmurs, veiled requests that resemble rants. Once you bring the issue into the light, AND you get a large response, companies will take notice.

Manufacturers know that anyone that knows anything about OLED wants this to come sooner rather than later. What they don't know, is that us enthusiast will not settle for crap TNs anymore. The second you provide an OLED that meets our needs, we won't let anyone we know purchase anything less.

Let the cry for OLED be heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Snowdog]

It seems like every few months someone thinks they discovered the next big thing: OLED.

While many of us have been quietly watching it's progress for years. Like any technology there are significant hurdles in commercialization that ardent fanboys fail to grasp. Remember 2008, the year of SED?

Reality is that 2010 has only one acknowledged panel from LG, a 15" 768P for ~$2500. This is a couple of years after the 11" $2500 OLED screen, so it represents very slow progress. You can also be fairly certain, that warranty will be voided if you display stationary pattern like a computer screen on it. Burn in will be a significant problem with OLED for the foreseeable future.

LG Projection/Goal of price parity in 2016. I doubt this one as well, but even if true, that is 6 years away, you need something till then. Heck my 1080P TV is only a year old and I will almost certainly upgrade again before that with an LCD/Plasma.

Waiting for technology(with hurdles to overcome) that isn't yet available is an idiots game.

An OLED TV is almost certainly in my future, but it is so far away at this point that it does not factor into today's decision process.

 

[Elledan]

While many of us have been quietly watching it's progress for years. Like any technology there are significant hurdles in commercialization that ardent fanboys fail to grasp. Remember 2008, the year of SED?

Actually that would have been 2006, if it wasn't for some stupid US patent dispute which kept the whole mass-production thing stalled for three years. At this point market conditions are deemed unsuitable for mass-production, so the whole thing got shelved.

Another reason why patents are generally evil.

 

[laguerre]

It seems like every few months someone thinks they discovered the next big thing: OLED.

Wouldn't it be better if instead of interest rising and falling as people discover OLED, to harness that interest and focus it into a common cry for OLED?

While many of us have been quietly watching it's progress for years. Like any technology there are significant hurdles in commercialization that ardent fanboys fail to grasp. Remember 2008, the year of SED?

Quietly. Most of us are quietly watching, and little good it does. Not being an "ardent fanboy" doesn't mean you can't be optimistic, and also vocal of what you expect. There's probably something about sheep that could be mentioned here. SED = Post #43

Waiting for technology(with hurdles to overcome) that isn't yet available is an idiots game.

Um... you're not waiting? What are you doing, not-waiting waiting?

An OLED TV is almost certainly in my future, but it is so far away at this point that it does not factor into today's decision process.

Agreed, that doesn't mean you can't plan for tomorrow, or let the industry know of what you demand of the future.

Tell me, what does your reality check achieve? Should we just /thread and come back in six months, make a post about new information, but emphasize that no one should get any ideas as discussion of OLED monitors is futile until Best Buy has them for sale?

 

[ASIA911]

I remembered I bought my first 20" POS Viewsonic LCD for $1000. But that was back then there weren't much competition. Hopefully with the mature of the LCD, the Plasma and others like the LED will drive down the OLED. The sad reality is that OLED won't be coming until 2012 because at this moment LCD are damn cheap to produce and companies are making money. So an affordable OLED is out of the question.

 

[Snowdog]

Wouldn't it be better if instead of interest rising and falling as people discover OLED, to harness that interest and focus it into a common cry for OLED?

Um... you're not waiting? What are you doing, not-waiting waiting?

Ummm exactly what good will crying about it do? You might as well have a common cry for flying cars.

Not waiting in that I am buying LCD's/Plasmas that are actually available unlike many who start these thread with, "not buying anymore LCDs waiting for OLED". These folks are idiots.

Pretty hard to asses the merits of something that likely won't be practically available for years, current versions of which are still extremely limited, extremely expensive and extremely fragile.

 

[Blackstone]

Panasonic claims it will have OLED sets on the market in 2010. Based on my experience with LCD, it can't come soon enough. I have an NEC 20WMGX2 LCD monitor that happens to be pretty good, but everything else that is LCD that I have seen is just terrible. Terrible contrast and black levels, washed out colors. We really need something better for screens under 42". I was even looking at Alpha-IPS based sets the other day--they still look like LCDs to me. The plasmas in the store look obviously good, the LCDs glaringly bad.

 

[mastercheeze]

It seems there are a couple subsets of consumers.

There are the "gotta have it now" crowd, who will pay anything for the latest and greatest.

There are the "bang for the buck" crowd who recognize the finer points of technology but wait for the combination of price, value and wow to come within reason.

There are the "bargain basement" crowd who won't spend a dime over a certain amount, no matter what the bells-and-whistles.

Adamj023 and metalsmart clearly fall in the first category. You guys are excited about OLED and that's great. You're not going to get a circlejerk going here, though, because most of us are in the second set. I understand the differences between TN, S-IPS, PVA, etc but it has to be a perfect storm of value for me to extend my spending limit that far. Most of us are not going to run out and spend 3k on a monitor because its OLED. We will spend 1k on an OLED monitor that is chock full of other features.

As far as getting excited and letting manufacturers know we want OLED, well, we all do. Any survey could tell them that. The ultimate vote is with our wallets, and they won't start to see that en masse until they can produce something we will actually want to buy at a given price point. This fact seems lost on metalsmart and adamj023.

Finally, I have to say that I'm not sure what the point of this thread was. Adamj023 decries the lack of intellectual discourse but seems to want everyone to agree with him that OLED is the best and all of his assertions are correct. Then, when he finds that most people are taking a "believe it when we see it" attitude, shits the bed and runs off. Cue metalsmart, who chastises us for the same.

Agreed, that doesn't mean you can't plan for tomorrow, or let the industry know of what you demand of the future.

Tell me, what does your reality check achieve? Should we just /thread and come back in six months, make a post about new information, but emphasize that no one should get any ideas as discussion of OLED monitors is futile until Best Buy has them for sale?

Good point. LG/Samsung/Sony, I want a 30" OLED with 4k resolution for $300. Are you listening?

 

[akotlar]

Why don't you get a 2209WA in the meantime? instead of suffering a dying CRT indefinitely waiting for a distant technology, you could pick one up for an absolute steal. You'd probably end up keeping it around as a complement to your mythical OLED display when you finally receive it.

It's not exactly mythical unless you're telling me the OLED devices I've been using for 3 years don't exist.

And 2209WA has shit quality compared to a great CRT. If he already has a great CRT, and I'm assuming he's using the FW900 at this point, why would he spend 200 on a similar size display and a significant downgrade in performance? Everything is "dying". If his display works, I don't see the impetus to change unless he needs the desk space.

LCD has just laughably bad image quality and motion performance unless you're talking about local dimming sets (which still suffer similar LC performance issues, but are better on motion handling due to image retention breaks, assuming they incorporate strobing backlights which some do).

 

[Whoisthisreally]

And 2209WA has shit quality compared to a great CRT. If he already has a great CRT, and I'm assuming he's using the FW900 at this point, why would he spend 200 on a similar size display and a significant downgrade in performance? Everything is "dying". If his display works, I don't see the impetus to change unless he needs the desk space.

LCD has just laughably bad image quality and motion performance unless you're talking about local dimming sets (which still suffer similar LC performance issues, but are better on motion handling due to image retention breaks, assuming they incorporate strobing backlights which some do).

Right, let us promptly defenestrate ANSI contrast measurement, realistic usage conditions, retail price and measured inquiry into employability and let the peanut butter fest begin!

I'll start us off: Black Level

 

[akotlar]

I'm sorry what? I think you're in support of my position. You spent a little too much time coming up with an interesting, symmetric, phrase with some good internal rhyme, too little time making it useful.

Retail price, inquiries into employability, and realistic usage are functions of a persons economic position and whatever their purchase goals are. Irrelevant to the discussion of performance (anyways outside of difficulty in acquiring an fw900 cost is in it's favor). ANSI contrast may paint CRTs in a bad ligh actually, as they are not nearly as luminous as LCDs. Better to look at min light output, which will certainly be in favor of CRTs. A great CRT may have a stunningly low ANSI contrast, but it really means nothing, as your pic shows

 

[akotlar]

And oled is absolutely the future. On mobile devices, the only current application, the difference is rediculous. My old iriver Clix2 had a much nicer screen than my iPhone. I'll be getting rid of it as soon as an oled iPhone comes out. The difference isn't funny.

And everyone arguing about how realisic or unrealistic it is in the retail h tv space due to price. Where were you arguing that lcds and plasmas would fail in 98? At least this time around well be getting high cost AND an improvement in image quality

 

[HowzThat]

Can I just interrupt to say how sad it is to see someone bashed (verbally) to the extent that they decide to leave.

I have nothing but thanks for adamj023. He is the one who started the thread on the NECEA231wmi and who provided useful information throughout the thread re: where to buy the monitor, stock availability, his thoughts on it etc.

I ultimately went on to buy the monitor from the postitive feedback and would like to thank adamj023 for bringing this wonderful piece of hardware to everyones attention.

It is surely one of the best purchases I have made (computer realated or otherwise)

Much like this thread I think he was only attempting to bring to peoples attention something that he believed passionately in. IMO insulting him was unnecessary, crude and added nothing to the discussion.

Whether you agree with his stance or not, he did bring interesting information to the table, made people think and had some interesting insights

Maybe just maybe he was actually Japanese/Korean (notice some English slip ups anyone?) and he actually DID have some inside info - from friends, family, colleagues etc

Adamj023, sorry to see you go. I for one thank you. Just my $0.02.

 

[Snowdog]

It seems there are a couple subsets of consumers.

There are the "gotta have it now" crowd, who will pay anything for the latest and greatest.

There are the "bang for the buck" crowd who recognize the finer points of technology but wait for the combination of price, value and wow to come within reason.

There are the "bargain basement" crowd who won't spend a dime over a certain amount, no matter what the bells-and-whistles.

Adamj023 and metalsmart clearly fall in the first category.

Not really. Adam is instead the exact opposite of have it now, using old junk (19" dying CRT with lines on the screen!!!) while living in fantasy land waiting for the OLED fairy to bring a magic monitor from a half decade in the future. Someone still using a CRT hardly sounds like someone in the "gotta have it now,pay any price" group.

I am a lot more likely to actually buy an OLED than someone using old junk dreaming of OLED. I pay to have top end monitor today (NEC 2490), I just don't live in a fantasy world where OLEDs will magically drop in price and grow in size "next year".

LG has a statement about beating LCD pricing in 2016. I doubt they will reach that projection/goal, but 2016 may be a realistic target for an affordable OLED TV.

But that is 6+ freaking years from now. My desktop LCD 2490 will almost certainly be replaced with another LCD before then. My 1080P Samsung LCD HDTV will also almost certainly be replaced with another LCD or Plasma before then. It is also possible that OLED will never be rugged enough for desktop monitor usage do to easy burn in.

OLED just doesn't remotely factor into buying decisions for a long time to come, for those of us who live in reality.

 

[Walker]

Not really. Adam is instead the exact opposite of have it now, using old junk (19" dying CRT with lines on the screen!!!) while living in fantasy land waiting for the OLED fairy to bring a magic monitor from a half decade in the future. Someone still using a CRT hardly sounds like someone in the "gotta have it now,pay any price" group.

I am a lot more likely to actually buy an OLED than someone using old junk dreaming of OLED. I pay to have top end monitor today (NEC 2490), I just don't live in a fantasy world where OLEDs will magically drop in price and grow in size "next year".

LG has a statement about beating LCD pricing in 2016. I doubt they will reach that projection/goal, but 2016 may be a realistic target for an affordable OLED TV.

But that is 6+ freaking years from now. My desktop LCD 2490 will almost certainly be replaced with another LCD before then. My 1080P Samsung LCD HDTV will also almost certainly be replaced with another LCD or Plasma before then. It is also possible that OLED will never be rugged enough for desktop monitor usage do to easy burn in.

OLED just doesn't remotely factor into buying decisions for a long time to come, for those of us who live in reality.

Yep, agree with all that. I bought my plasma a year and a half ago and next year I'm upgrading to a bigger, better one. I will also be upgrading to a bigger LCD monitor and I'd be very surprised if that's the last LCD i will buy.

I'm also yet to see one manufacturer announce any plans on using OLED in actual computer monitors. People just assume that burn in issues will be dealt with but I wouldn't be so sure about that. Although much improved over early models, plasma technology for instance is still not suitable for static images and will probably never be.

I'd bet plenty of affordable LCDs actually have better image quality than OP's old dying 19" CRT but to each their own.

 

[krupted]

so, in 5-10 years we will finally see mainstream oled starting to replace lcd's completely. i can live with lcd until then, but its nice to know the rollup 100" screens are just around the corner.

 

[daveswantek]

Yep, agree with all that. I bought my plasma a year and a half ago and next year I'm upgrading to a bigger, better one. I will also be upgrading to a bigger LCD monitor and I'd be very surprised if that's the last LCD i will buy.

I'm also yet to see one manufacturer announce any plans on using OLED in actual computer monitors. People just assume that burn in issues will be dealt with but I wouldn't be so sure about that. Although much improved over early models, plasma technology for instance is still not suitable for static images and will probably never be.

I'd bet plenty of affordable LCDs actually have better image quality than OP's old dying 19" CRT but to each their own.

I agree with Snowdog's comments as well, but I think you have hit on the more interesting aspect of OLED. Will it ever make it to the desktop? People that have not researched this tech. are assuming that it will automajically lead to perfect displays which is unrealistic at best. Even if OLED was a perfect tech. the vendors that implament it will find a way to screw it up. Case in point, just look at how LG and others have screwed up the implamentation of S-IPS LCDs. Pink/green tint, white glow, uneven backlight; very few of them are worth having. Same is true with S-PVA it is just a different set of issues. All of these issues could be corrected, but none of the vendors really care, because they are making plenty of money off of consumers that generally do not understand what they are buying.

Personally I do not care what the underling tech. is, I would just like to see displays start improving again.

Dave

 

[nomu]

And oled is absolutely the future. On mobile devices, the only current application, the difference is rediculous. My old iriver Clix2 had a much nicer screen than my iPhone. I'll be getting rid of it as soon as an oled iPhone comes out. The difference isn't funny.

And everyone arguing about how realisic or unrealistic it is in the retail h tv space due to price. Where were you arguing that lcds and plasmas would fail in 98? At least this time around well be getting high cost AND an improvement in image quality

Who has ever said OLED would fail? Think about this: It's 1998 right now. Would YOU buy a LCD or plamsa? We know for sure OLED is the default option for the next era in displays, the ones we don't know about are SED/FED and laser projection.

 

[laguerre]

Ummm exactly what good will crying about it do?

I'd be quicker to associate crying with denouncing the possibility of OLEDs in the market, than a show of interest in it's arrival.

Pretty hard to asses the merits of something...

I agree, trying to asses anything has it's challenges.

You're not going to get a circlejerk going here...
As far as getting excited and letting manufacturers know we want OLED, well, we all do. Any survey could tell them that. The ultimate vote is with our wallets, and they won't start to see that en masse until they can produce something we will actually want to buy at a given price point. This fact seems lost on metalsmart and adamj023.

Have you participated in a survey of OLEDs? I haven't. I only hear little bits of news about oled, The "Any survey could tell manufacturers" that we want 120hz monitors hasn't worked out so well. The ultimate vote may be with your wallet, but no one gets voted for without first being nominated.

Finally, I have to say that I'm not sure what the point of this thread was.

The thread title says, "OLED is coming!" and the response is more closely rated to a crowd booing than it is a discussion of this. Perhaps I read to much into the thread title and the OPs post, but I merely wanted to expand the knowledge on OLED for myself and others.

OLED just doesn't remotely factor into buying decisions for a long time to come, for those of us who live in reality.

And? I have no intention of saving my pennies for the day OLED comes out, nor will or have I held out for OLED. I will continue to be interested in OLED discussions and promote [H]Forum as source for OLED info. As I've said before, the Display section at [H]Forum gets a very large amount of traffic, but few contributions. I would be nice to read more than "What's the best gaming monitor..."

More so, the undefined "people" that make assumptions and are uneducated about the tech of OLED might have had a chance to find information here, but that's thus far been quick to be stifled. Doubting coming technology won't be tainted by manufacturers, or yet to be addressed issues of OLEDs will keep it from the monitor market, is not a solid basis or an argument.

 

[Snowdog]

I'd be quicker to associate crying with denouncing the possibility of OLEDs in the market, than a show of interest in it's arrival.

The Crying was your terminology, saying we should join in a common cry for OLED...

And? I have no intention of saving my pennies for the day OLED comes out, nor will or have I held out for OLED.

The OP has a dying 19" CRT and is trying to hold out for OLED.

The thread title says, "OLED is coming!" and the response is more closely rated to a crowd booing than it is a discussion of this. Perhaps I read to much into the thread title and the OPs post, but I merely wanted to expand the knowledge on OLED for myself and others.

The thread title is part of what drew a negative response. It would be like posting "LED backlighting is coming". Rather pointless and empty common knowledge at this point. Then the poster presented a Pollyanna view of manufacturer PR and extrapolated even more optimistically beyond that.

If there is actually concrete new OLED info, by all means start a thread, don't over-hype, give an indication of what the concrete new info is in the title. New announcement of an actual screen. Great bring it on. Review of the "giant" new LG 15" screen, absolutely!

But, manufacturer hype maintenance, blah...

Wake me when there is more real info...

 

[laguerre]

The Crying was your terminology, saying we should join in a common cry for OLED...
But, manufacturer hype maintenance, blah...
Wake me when there is more real info...

My terminology, and I'm saying if there is any crying going on in this thread, it delivers a negative cry for OLEDs not a positive one that the OP was attempting to bolster.

Calling it as it is, I'm not going to argue with stating that. Calling it as it is every time there's a new post for OLED in this thread is a bit excessive. If the OP was to post the Apocalypse is coming! (in 2010) and went on to give a few details in support of his thread title, do you feel that the best way to approach this is to dominate the thread with the understanding that the apocalypse is no where near of being here? Or would you call it as it is, and see what other information is there in support of this? What you post is for you to determine, I would not presume to direct you in any way. I am interested in his supposition and would rather see supporting information, rather than hang reality on every comment. The apocalypse may be a bit extreme, but my interest in the information surrounding the potential of OLED to emerge in 2010 isn't. I think it's a waste to not take advantage of a thread that can consolidate useful information about OLED. You've asserted that the most useful information is that OLED is no where near coming. Is it necessary to follow every comment that may say otherwise with this?

Back to my previous statement. Tell me, what does your reality check achieve? Should we just /thread and come back in six months, make a post about new information, but emphasize that no one should get any ideas as discussion of OLED monitors is futile until Best Buy has them for sale?

 

[tombew]

adamj023
May I ask what monitors you are using now?

 

[Snowdog]

Calling it as it is every time there's a new post for OLED in this thread is a bit excessive.

I don't think it is excessive to answer delusion thinking, with a healthy dose of reality any time I see it.

I think it's a waste to not take advantage of a thread that can consolidate useful information about OLED. You've asserted that the most useful information is that OLED is no where near coming. Is it necessary to follow every comment that may say otherwise with this?

Back to my previous statement. Tell me, what does your reality check achieve? Should we just /thread and come back in six months, make a post about new information, but emphasize that no one should get any ideas as discussion of OLED monitors is futile until Best Buy has them for sale?

This thread was tainted from the beginning and thus doesn't serve as a useful consolidation thread. A reality check is the most useful info when facing delusional postings. This thread should die. Threads are poor for consolidation anyway, they drop off the radar quickly. There are already OLED consolidation sites:
http://www.oled-display.net/technology/oled-tv
http://www.oled-info.com/oled-tv

Also aside from the years away reality check for TVs, there is a more dire reality check when it comes to monitors: BURN IN. This pretty much kills OLED for computer monitors, possibly forever. OLED is coming for TVs (years from now), but monitors? Nope, no sign of that at all.

When there is actual information, start a new and more balanced (reality based) one. It will attract less negative posting that way.

But if you start delusional hype threads, don't be surprised if they are met with negativity.

 

[laguerre]

I think it was understood quite early on in this thread had veered off track. From the very first reply to the OP's post, it was decided that a discussion of oled was not happening, adamj023 quickly realized and resorted to expressing his frustration. I was a bit confused as to why everyone felt the need to administer that healthy does of reality

I don't think it is excessive to answer delusion thinking, with a healthy dose of reality any time I see it.
But if you start delusional hype threads, don't be surprised if they are met with negativity.

I'm clearly not surprised. Disappointed.

 

[daveswantek]

It was the first post that was off base and for me there is nothing wrong with all parties concerned expressing their views. The place where I will agree with you is that [H] has some members that resort to personal attacks and name calling way to easy. I believe this is due to the lacking moderation. I have only seen a Mod issue a warning once in the 2+ years I have been hear. Anand Tech and AVSForums is a much different story.

There are other OLED threads here that have some good info in them. This one should should be locked at this point.

Dave

 

[steal]

I don't think it is excessive to answer delusion thinking, with a healthy dose of reality any time I see it.



This thread was tainted from the beginning and thus doesn't serve as a useful consolidation thread. A reality check is the most useful info when facing delusional postings. This thread should die. Threads are poor for consolidation anyway, they drop off the radar quickly. There are already OLED consolidation sites:
http://www.oled-display.net/technology/oled-tv
http://www.oled-info.com/oled-tv

Also aside from the years away reality check for TVs, there is a more dire reality check when it comes to monitors: BURN IN. This pretty much kills OLED for computer monitors, possibly forever. OLED is coming for TVs (years from now), but monitors? Nope, no sign of that at all.

When there is actual information, start a new and more balanced (reality based) one. It will attract less negative posting that way.

But if you start delusional hype threads, don't be surprised if they are met with negativity.

You're joking, right? Burn-in?

I suppose you completely forgot about the people who play countless hours of games on their HDTVs these days? Have you heard of this thing called the Xbox 360? It's pretty popular, let me tell you...

I've heard a lot of crap about burn-in on OLEDs, but no one has offered up any concrete proof. Show me some Sony XEL-1 users complaining about burn-in, or users of any other OLED devices like PMP's?

 

[Zellio2010]

I don't think OLED is the future at all.

Consider the past of lcd. We've gone from really awful displays with extreme blur, horrible refresh rates, and horrible contrast (If they even had color), and you had to be right in front of the lcd to see it in the late 80's/early 90's. Today, you have lcds with easyto see displays in all angles, good refresh rates, high contrast, and are actually competiting against plasma and oled. Considering how little it cost to make an lcd display, I'd bet you'd see an lcd of the exact or comparable quality for less then the same sized oled before oleds are affordable.

 

[steal]

I don't think OLED is the future at all.

Consider the past of lcd. We've gone from really awful displays with extreme blur, horrible refresh rates, and horrible contrast (If they even had color), and you had to be right in front of the lcd to see it in the late 80's/early 90's. Today, you have lcds with easyto see displays in all angles, good refresh rates, high contrast, and are actually competiting against plasma and oled. Considering how little it cost to make an lcd display, I'd bet you'd see an lcd of the exact or comparable quality for less then the same sized oled before oleds are affordable.

LCDs still have horrible contrast and viewing angles, even IPS and *VA LCDs. I use a 2209wa, and while the viewing angles are very good compared to a TN, there is still off-angle IPS glow to deal with, and IPS panels typically have poor contrast. with *VA panels, there is horizontal off-angle gamma shifting, and while there is better "contrast", black crush remains to be an issue with *VA panels.

I think you're wrong. Go to a Best Buy and pick up a Zune HD and you'll see what I mean. There really is no comparison.

 

[Zellio2010]

LCDs still have horrible contrast and viewing angles, even IPS and *VA LCDs. I use a 2209wa, and while the viewing angles are very good compared to a TN, there is still off-angle IPS glow to deal with, and IPS panels typically have poor contrast. with *VA panels, there is horizontal off-angle gamma shifting, and while there is better "contrast", black crush remains to be an issue with *VA panels.

I think you're wrong. Go to a Best Buy and pick up a Zune HD and you'll see what I mean. There really is no comparison.

This is true, although some of the high priced lcds (Like my samsung) have really good viewing angles. But then the high priced ones doesn't have good blacks (But I've seen h-ips have good blacks, but not good angles like my samsung).

Still, with the high prices of oleds, and how unstable the tech is (With the low color life), I'm not sure when we would have affordable oled. And lcd does improve every year. I'm not totally sure it would ever reach oled, but at least comparible quality.

Either way, competition is always good. Good priced oleds would drive down plasma and lcds prices.

 

[Snowdog]

You're joking, right? Burn-in?

Go read the Sony Manual. Go read some 3rd party testing of the Sony. It is burn in defined. Much worse than the first plasmas.

As far as Sony XEL-1 Users complaining... What XEL-1 users??? The XEL-1 was a tech demo that you could buy(if you had more money than brains), not a serious product.

As far as PMPs they average maybe 5 hours a week in screen usage and the interfaces are are red/black/green to minimize burn in. Computer monitors can average over 10 hours a day and will have white/blue all over the screen all the time.

If you have a scale from 1 to 10 of things that burn in screens. 1 would be PMP/cell phone, 10 would be computer monitors. The last place you will see an OLED is in a computer monitor.

Every individual emitter technology subject to wear is subject to burn-in. That includes CRT/Plasma/OLED (in order from best to worse).

Plasma is much more robust than OLED at this point, but you still wouldn't use a current plasma as a full time computer monitor as you would quickly burn in interface element, icons etc. OLED is even more fragile and has an additional issue of being extremely fragile on blue.

 

[daveswantek]

You're joking, right? Burn-in?

I suppose you completely forgot about the people who play countless hours of games on their HDTVs these days? Have you heard of this thing called the Xbox 360? It's pretty popular, let me tell you...

I've heard a lot of crap about burn-in on OLEDs, but no one has offered up any concrete proof. Show me some Sony XEL-1 users complaining about burn-in, or users of any other OLED devices like PMP's?

Man; at least do a search on the topic:

From HDTVexpert:http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Sony_XEL-1_OLEDTV.html

"One warning that caught my eye pertained to image burn-in. Like any other emissive display, OLEDs can experience differential aging over time from continuous display of bright, contrasty material, such as network bugs, screen crawls, and logos.

Here’s what the XEL-1 owner’s manual says about it:

Image Retention — Due to the characteristics of the material used in an OLED screen for its high-precision image, permanent image retention may occur if still images are displayed in the same position on the screen continuously, or repeatedly over extended periods.

Images that may cause image retention: Wide screen sources with black bars at top and bottom (Letterboxed Image), 4:3 screen sources with black bars at the left and right, non-moving images such as photo, game sources, on-screen tickers such as those used for news and headlines, on-screen menus, program guides, channel numbers, etc. of connected equipment such as a set-top box, video recorder, disc player, etc.

So there you have it. Of course, Sony hasn’t mentioned anything about differential color aging during normal operation. The jury’s still out on that one, and it will be interesting to see what posts come up in the next few months about the XEL-1 and any shifts in color over sustained period of use."

Another source; Look at the bottom of this doc: http://data.4dsystems.com.au/downloads/micro-OLED/Docs/4D_AMOLED_Presentation.pdf

Just google "OLED Image Retention" the facts are well publicised.

Dave

 

[Danevin]

I simply do not understand why there is an argument about why this thread went down hill. Here is a simple list.

1) TS didn't post any articles or anything to back up any claims.
2) There wasn't anything NEW discussed in the OP.
3) I think that a few people are overzealous about the OLED pricing/timeline.
4) I also think that the "realists" that have posted have provided more evidence for their side of believing that OLED will not be extremely cheap or have a high adoption rate in the next 1-2 years.

Had the OP made a thread with new information citing credible sources for said information, the thread would be completely different. Show us some new OLED models coming up for CES, show us a ground breaking article about them fixing burn-in, show us ANY new information about OLED computer monitors.

Civilized conversations can happen, but making a thread with no real new information except saying "OLED is coming" then having no new information about it except speculation, is kind of asking for it.

 

[akotlar]

I simply do not understand why there is an argument about why this thread went down hill. Here is a simple list.

1) TS didn't post any articles or anything to back up any claims.
2) There wasn't anything NEW discussed in the OP.
3) I think that a few people are overzealous about the OLED pricing/timeline.
4) I also think that the "realists" that have posted have provided more evidence for their side of believing that OLED will not be extremely cheap or have a high adoption rate in the next 1-2 years.

Had the OP made a thread with new information citing credible sources for said information, the thread would be completely different. Show us some new OLED models coming up for CES, show us a ground breaking article about them fixing burn-in, show us ANY new information about OLED computer monitors.

Civilized conversations can happen, but making a thread with no real new information except saying "OLED is coming" then having no new information about it except speculation, is kind of asking for it.

Great post.