OLED flat panels when?

[bob321]

Ok does anyone know when OLED flat panels may be developed. According to the article in the link below the author says we could see "9- to 15-inch OLEDs in laptops and desktops by 2005, and 17-inch OLEDs in TVs by 2006". http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/AnchorDesk/4520-6033_16-4207725.html

Also found a sample picture in the article below.
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=1485&pq-locale=en_US

If you are wondering how OLEDs are better than LCDs, well it seems that it will be perfectly viewable from any angle, (like a CRT), have bright vivid colours, no backlight, and a very low response time, "Because OLEDs refresh about 1 million times a second--as much as 1,000 times faster than some LCDs--moving images are much crisper". that was a quote from the first article. it looks like this could be a real replacement to CRTs. Anyone have anymore info about OLEDs, why its taking so long to get to market, and possible problems / dissadvantages to the technology?

 

[TheGameguru]

Just read that Opto Tech is introducing a 1.5" passive matrix OLED panel for cell phones for 4th quarter this year..

sounds like we have a ways to go before you'll see them in 15", 17" panels..

 

[dudewth]

Just read that Opto Tech is introducing a 1.5" passive matrix OLED panel for cell phones for 4th quarter this year..

sounds like we have a ways to go before you'll see them in 15", 17" panels..

That's sad when your cell phone's screen has a better response time than your computer LCD.

 

[BillR]

Pioneer used OLEDS in their car stereo displays many years ago.So have a number of cell phone companies.

I believe the issue was and still is the short life of the red OLED. The other issue is the same one that keeps LCD prices high, which is, how many panels out of 10 are saleable. It's much better then it used to be, but the reject rate is still pretty high.

 

[JackieO]

Bill is right, the red OLED is not lasting quite long enough, and the blue OLED is even worse. Current lifespans on those are something like 2500-5000 hours, which is unacceptable for any real long term use. A few manufacturers are trying to get around this by using the Red and Green's to make a variation of blue which would average all three lifetimes and put them in the ~15,000 hour range. The side effect of this is compromised blues.

In any event most people are confident the blue OLED thing will get worked out, but I wouldn't look for computer monitor or TV sized monitors before 2007-2009. Even the largest proponents of OLED are pretty much resigned to not having 40 inch+ screens out before 2010.

 

[Spetsnaz Op]

I don't know when, but I sure as hell wouldn't buy an LCD until they come out LCD's are slowish and when the OLED's come out they will be worthless too. CRT for now...yessir

Of course if you don't have the deskspace or don't game LCD's are great

 

[MisterDNA]

These worthless LCDs you speak of will be about 1/10th the cost of an OLED display. Remember, it's the early adopters who pay out the ass for the cutting edge technology just for the bling bling. It went the same way with the first LCD displays, color CRTs, CD players, CD burners, HDTV, digital satellite, ad infitum. You get my point...

OLEDs in what is our price range today? I predict 2012.

 

[BillR]

These worthless LCDs you speak of will be about 1/10th the cost of an OLED display. Remember, it's the early adopters who pay out the ass for the cutting edge technology just for the bling bling. It went the same way with the first LCD displays, color CRTs, CD players, CD burners, HDTV, digital satellite, ad infitum. You get my point...

OLEDs in what is our price range today? I predict 2012.

In 1982 a good CD player cost about a grand. A good one today still costs about a grand. Same with DVD, HDTV etc. Sure, you can buy cheaper anything, but you get what you pay for.

It’s like if you’re a regular customer type and want a top of the line PC. A top of the line unit in 1995 cost 3500 and a top of the line machine today is still 3500 or higher.

The best part will be CRT displays. Done any shopping for those of late? You won’t find many left, they are on the way out as far as high quality units.

Just some perspective

 

[Elledan]

These worthless LCDs you speak of will be about 1/10th the cost of an OLED display. Remember, it's the early adopters who pay out the ass for the cutting edge technology just for the bling bling. It went the same way with the first LCD displays, color CRTs, CD players, CD burners, HDTV, digital satellite, ad infitum. You get my point...

OLEDs in what is our price range today? I predict 2012.

Of course, one should not forget that existing TFT production lines are relatively easily modified to produce OLED dispays instead, reducing the initial investment signficantly. On top of that the actual production process is less complex, so the price of the first OLED dispays should be around that of a similarly sized TFT display.

 

[bob321]

Its sad to know they still have so far to go. I hope it doesnt take as long as 2012 though, I don't think I can stand using LCDs for that long, and I have already abandoned CRTs. has anyone seen a device with the KODAK NUVUE OLED Displays. It seems that they are in use in devices available now. The link below has a review of a kodak digital camera with a 2.2 inch OLED display, the second pic shows the camera with the display on. http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/kodak/ls633-review/

Is it that they are having a problem making big OLED displays, as small OLED displays seem to be available now or by the end of this year? The KODAK NUVUE OLED Displays seems to used or may start being used for GPS Nav/TVs in cars as well.

I actually have a very small OLED display on the front of my cell phone (LG VX6000), but most of it is in one colour. the time scrolls across the display after a few seconds of closing the phone and I can vouch for what looks like CRT like response time, but it isnt scrolling all that fast. It is perfectly viewable from any angle. In complete darkness with the display on, parts of the display not showing anything shows as perfect black (since there is no backlight), not a washed out dark grey on many LCDs. It looks like what LCDs should have been, but wasnt.

What would be cool is if someone could get access to one of those KODAK NUVUE OLED Displays, somehow attach a DVI connector and mod the front of a shuttle XPC with the display) ohh well, back to reality. Kodak seems to have fixed most of the problems as they have the following on the Kodak site.

Features
Noteworthy color gamut in full-color OLED systems (third-generation KODAK OLED materials)
Rich color saturation
Excellent luminous efficiency
Long lifetime *
Excellent drive voltage (power) efficiency
Certified, device-tested “EL” grad

Anyone know about these NuVue displays (seen one in person maybe), know if they are actually available in devices other than that digicam, and an idea of the manufacturing cost compared to a similar sized LCD.

 

[MisterDNA]

In 1982 a good CD player cost about a grand. A good one today still costs about a grand. Same with DVD, HDTV etc. Sure, you can buy cheaper anything, but you get what you pay for.

It’s like if you’re a regular customer type and want a top of the line PC. A top of the line unit in 1995 cost 3500 and a top of the line machine today is still 3500 or higher.

The best part will be CRT displays. Done any shopping for those of late? You won’t find many left, they are on the way out as far as high quality units.

Just some perspective

in 1982 a cd player had the samed features and output as what you can get from a blister-pack sony portable. You can only push 16bitx2/44.1KHz so far. After that, you're into audiophile stuff that the average consumer just doesn't see any value in paying for that little of a difference.

I refuse to believe that technology's progress hasn't made better things cheaper and allowed more people to get ahold of such things. How many of us had DVDs in 1998? How many of us had flat panel displays in the same year?

Remember when laptops carried monochrome panels and passive color (STN or dual-scan) was on the uber expensive ones? Remember when the top option was a TFT panel that would set you back another $3000? Everything gets dirt cheap before it gets phased out. LCDs will be considered worthless maybe in twenty years. Just like greenscreen monitors for computers are now.

I predict in ten years when LCDs are a poor man's display and most you find are used ones with aging backlight tubes, the tubes will be replaced with high intensity LED bars that fire the light from one side into the edge of the light spreader. That will wire a few more years into these displays.

You will see LCDs at second hand stores for $10 maybe in 2012 but that's only if the donors don't crack the panels tossing them into the donation bins.

There will be no long-term second hand market for OLED displays. Unlike LCDs and CRTs which will operate at a reduced capacity for decades, with decaying brightness from phosphor burnout on the CRT and washout and backlight burnout (with replacements when available) on LCDs, OLED displays are dead for good when those little LEDs die. So at least the first generation of computer display-duty OLEDs will be garbage after a time. Maybe the OLED technology will improve to where we are able to see ten year lifetimes on each element of any color like with standard LEDs?

I guarantee running screensaver graphics will be discouraged on the first generation of OLED panels.

 

[BillR]

You make some valid points for sure. A few months ago I saw a display that was actually printed from a deskjet printer right in front of my eyes. It was to be fair, black and white, but the damn thing did work. Very scary stuff. There is a good chance OLED will never make it as a full sized display. Way too many people are working other ideas to make any judgments now.

It takes tons of money and time to bring any new product to market thus the manufactures of said products want to have as long a run time as possible.

Remember the TI DLP chip is about 18 years old and is only found it's way into our homes in the past few years.

Super Audio CD is only a few years old and has overcome any and all objections people had to digital recording, but because the consumer is willing to listen to MP-3s it too is a slow seller.

As long as consumers don't demand better they won't get it.

 

[JackieO]

BillR is right - It's just too early to tell, plain and simple. Many people point out that OLED won't take the kind of up front investment to get running that other technologies do which makes it more desirable to reseach for companies - but on that same note there are technologies like FED which are more advanced than OLED and also wouldn't require new plants to be constructed since it works on already established technology. Right now for computer LCDs and CRTs are where it's at, and that isn't going to change for at least 3-5 years.

 

[oddlycalm]

What will change is that 2005 will be the year for LED backlighting, which should improve overall LCD display performance and logevity. By early 2006 most of the cold cathode models will be gone.

There will be some high quality CRT's around for a while, but merchants and distributors hate them due to their size and weight. Many don't carry any now and we can expect that trend to accellerate. My advice to anyone wanting a high end CRT would be to get one during the next year, two at the outside.

oc

 

[MisterDNA]

LED backlighting that early? Interesting. I never looked it up to see if it was being developed. Makes perfect sense, however. That would get rid of the high voltages present in CCFL systems as well as the heat they make. And with no reduced brightness like we see with CCFLs over their lifetime, we're looking at a much better technology. And the phosphors used on the LED dies can be more closely tuned to what we consider pure white than those of the CCFLs.

I haven't heard of FED technology yet either. Can you shoot me a link?

What Bill says about DLP is true. It mostly had to do with the fact that nanotech mechanisms like that were by no means inexpensive (I use that term loosely) and now they are within reach of a lot of upper middle class folks.

 

[JackieO]

Here are some links about FED.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Field emission

http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/open2003/en/tenji/28.html

There are a few small companies working on contract for Matsishuta and Sharp that are researching it, IIRC. It was demo'd recently in small sizes but it's still years away - the only reason I brought it up is because it uses CRT technology so it's promising in that there is already an infrastructure for it and they know that if they make it work it will have a long usable life.

 

[steal]

These worthless LCDs you speak of will be about 1/10th the cost of an OLED display. Remember, it's the early adopters who pay out the ass for the cutting edge technology just for the bling bling. It went the same way with the first LCD displays, color CRTs, CD players, CD burners, HDTV, digital satellite, ad infitum. You get my point...

OLEDs in what is our price range today? I predict 2012.

2012?

then what's going to replace lcd's, which are pretty much absolutely trash when it comes to accurate color reproduction, inbetween all those years?

 

[JackieO]

2012?

then what's going to replace lcd's, which are pretty much absolutely trash when it comes to accurate color reproduction, inbetween all those years?

OLED will likely be out in sizes that work for computer use before 2012 - for HT maybe, maybe not. Either way LCDs are going to be the only game in town for at least 2-5 more years. As for color reproduction, I wouldn't get too excited about OLEDs colors just yet, as mentioned above they may need to leverage the lifespan of the green and red LED to make blue and variations of blue, which would mean less than perfect color reproduction.

 

[steal]

OLED will likely be out in sizes that work for computer use before 2012 - for HT maybe, maybe not. Either way LCDs are going to be the only game in town for at least 2-5 more years. As for color reproduction, I wouldn't get too excited about OLEDs colors just yet, as mentioned above they may need to leverage the lifespan of the green and red LED to make blue and variations of blue, which would mean less than perfect color reproduction.

blacks are easily the most important to me, and LCDs cannot reproduce them very well at all..

OLED on the other hand can considering there is no actual backlight..

 

[JackieO]

Oh alright, when you said color I assumed you meant actual colors and not black levels. If it's blacks you're after then you're right, OLED looks good.

 

[MisterDNA]

Here are some links about FED.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Field emission

http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/open2003/en/tenji/28.html

There are a few small companies working on contract for Matsishuta and Sharp that are researching it, IIRC. It was demo'd recently in small sizes but it's still years away - the only reason I brought it up is because it uses CRT technology so it's promising in that there is already an infrastructure for it and they know that if they make it work it will have a long usable life.

Looks similar to plasma. Damn good idea I think.

 

[bob321]

Here are some links about FED.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Field emission

http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/open2003/en/tenji/28.html

There are a few small companies working on contract for Matsishuta and Sharp that are researching it, IIRC. It was demo'd recently in small sizes but it's still years away - the only reason I brought it up is because it uses CRT technology so it's promising in that there is already an infrastructure for it and they know that if they make it work it will have a long usable life.

It does indeed look promising. I hope at least one of these new technologies gets to market in the next 2 to 3 years, but I guess we can only wait.