OLED 20"+ Monitors

A

adamj023

Limp Gawd
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Messages
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LG revealed plans to hit the market with a 15-inch, 1366 x 768 model by the end of 2009. Models of 20 inches and up will arrive in 2010, 30-inch-plus models in 2011, and 40-inch-plus models in 2012.

I decided to pass on IPS and head straight to OLED since OLED is right around the corner and I am on a CRT monitor and I keep waiting and OLED keeps coming closer.

According to the articles, OLED has a 50% greater production cost over LCD but it didn't say over which panels. Even assuming it was over eIPS based panels lets say, that would still bring in a very reasonable price on this monitor and the usage of high end polarizers and the like are not needed for better quality performance.

If 23" OLED comes in at nice pricing I will get one of these monitors and throw out this CRT.
 
I wouldn't get too excited personally. Even if 20" models do arrive next year, they are going to be a lot more than 50% expensive compared to an LCD.

Has there been any news on improvements in OLED's lifetime/uneven wear of pixels? Do we know for sure OLED's will be suitable for computer monitors or they're going to be used only in TV's, like plasmas?
 
Price is determined by supply and demand. Compared to LCD supply, OLED supply will be very, very low in the first few years (think about all the investment in LCD production capability over the decade). If OLED lives up to the hype, demand will be very, very high compared to LCD.

Very very low supply + very very high demand = very very expensive. QED.
 
Production will ramp up quickly and prices will be reasonable when they are out.

OLED will indeed be in low supply compared with their LCD counterparts but that is because the manufacturers don't want to diminish their existing LCD investments.

Early production OLEDs will have a price premium attached to them. But not as high as one will make you believe once panels are produced in a volume scale and will ramp up quite quickly.

As of today an 11" OLED TV is around $2,500 but only cause it was an early adoption model to test a brand new product. The size ramps up to 15" OLED TV next, and then thereafter production will occur for larger panels on par with those LCD sizes we see now.

Yes, OLED is where I am going. IPS is too pricey and too weak for what you get requiring advanced polarizers for acceptable quality. OLED just blows away IPS in every direction, from viewing to energy cost and beyond. Definitely a winner here.

LCD's are now commodity products with very low cost except for the highest end IPS based models which cost around $1,000 a piece.

An equivalent in OLED by default will be less money because it uses less energy cost, and doesn't require any of the pricey addon components. The OLED displays will be absolutely amazing.

2010-2012 is the year of the OLED finally.
 
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If 23" OLED comes in at nice pricing I will get one of these monitors and throw out this CRT.
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That depends on what you mean by nice pricing.

LCD's are now commodity products with very low cost except for the highest end IPS based models which cost around $1,000 a piece.
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That's in fact incorrect. EIZO ColorEdge CG243W, a 24" IPS panel, cost around $2300.

OLED will become mainstream, but I very much doubt it'll be 2011-2012.
 
Considering the first OLED on the market, the Sony 11", retailed for around $2.5k...I would say that these 20"+ OLEDs are going to be quite pricey.

The Sony is a boutique item and thus overpriced itself, but I would not be surprised to see the first 20"+ OLEDs to be in the high $1k to low $2k range.

Remember how expensive LCDs were just a few years ago when they were coming out.
 
adamj023 said:
Production will ramp up quickly and prices will be reasonable when they are out.

OLED will indeed be in low supply compared with their LCD counterparts but that is because the manufacturers don't want to diminish their existing LCD investments.
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It is totally reasonable to expect that, in the next two years, LG can (if it wants to) single-handedly match the capital investment done by the entire LCD industry in the last 10 years.

adamj023 said:
Early production OLEDs will have a price premium attached to them. But not as high as one will make you believe once panels are produced in a volume scale and will ramp up quite quickly.
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It is totally reasonable to expect that OLED will lose its premium status in two years, just like how LCD became price competitive with CRTs two years after it appeared on the market (which was, what, 1999?).

adamj023 said:
An equivalent in OLED by default will be less money because it uses less energy cost, and doesn't require any of the pricey addon components. The OLED displays will be absolutely amazing.
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It is totally reasonable to expect that OLED manufacturers will make these amazing displays cheaper (in terms of total cost of ownership) than high-end LCDs. Companies hate making money; they would prefer pricing OLED displays so inexpensively that they cannot meet demand, and then give eBay sellers their opportunities to make money.

Is my summary accurate?
 
75% cost of TFT-LCD originates from raw materials, while cost of OLED on raw materials just accounts for less than 25%. TFT-LCD has had no means to reduce cost efficiently today; once the rate of finished OLED products improves to 70%, there will be no room for TFT-LCD in the future. Therefore, OLED industry has a bright future.

In other words: Transistion will be made from LCD to OLED and will progress quickly.

Those very expensive IPS monitors will become paperweights considering a much cheaper priced OLED will outperform and shine and it will happen in a very short timespan as we head into 2010,2011,2012, and beyond. 2010-2011 is really the beginning of the emergence of the OLED.

I do expect desktop monitor makers to be using OLED's and I fully expect notebook's to be using them as well.

The question I have is one of will one OLED maker be superior to the others or are all OLED's going to have an amazing picture?

I know Chi Mei is doing OLED along with Samsung and LG and others and Im wondering how differences will be amongst the different makers.
 
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chklin said:
It is totally reasonable to expect that, in the next two years, LG can (if it wants to) single-handedly match the capital investment done by the entire LCD industry in the last 10 years.


It is totally reasonable to expect that OLED will lose its premium status in two years, just like how LCD became price competitive with CRTs two years after it appeared on the market (which was, what, 1999?).


It is totally reasonable to expect that OLED manufacturers will make these amazing displays cheaper (in terms of total cost of ownership) than high-end LCDs. Companies hate making money; they would prefer pricing OLED displays so inexpensively that they cannot meet demand, and then give eBay sellers their opportunities to make money.

Is my summary accurate?
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... what are you talking about?
 
adriantrances said:
"Companies hate making money"

say whaaaat?
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That entire post merely points out the conclusions I reached from adamj023's claims. Take this particular statement as an example:

  1. Assume company loves making money
  2. The company would price OLED monitors so that they are more expensive to own than IPS LCD monitors (because consumers are willing to pay more for a superior product)
  3. adamj023 claims that OLED monitors will be cheaper to own than IPS monitors
  4. If adamj023 is right, then ...
  5. The original assumption must be false, and company must hate making money
Just trying to use a little logic to help adamj023 see how absurd his claims are.
 
chklin said:
That entire post merely points out the conclusions I reached from adamj023's claims. Take this particular statement as an example:

  1. Assume company loves making money
  2. The company would price OLED monitors so that they are more expensive to own than IPS LCD monitors (because consumers are willing to pay more for a superior product)
  3. adamj023 claims that OLED monitors will be cheaper to own than IPS monitors
  4. If adamj023 is right, then ...
  5. The original assumption must be false, and company must hate making money
Just trying to use a little logic to help adamj023 see how absurd his claims are.
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Your logic... I... I can't understand it. :(

Adam - you are mighty sure about the dates though aren't you?
 
Koko56 said:
Your logic... I... I can't understand it. :(
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Suppose you have a 20" OLED monitor that you want to sell. You know that:
  1. Your OLED monitor is much better than any LCD monitor
  2. People pay $2500 (for example) to buy high-end 20" LCD monitors
  3. Since OLED uses much less power, over the life of the monitor an OLED user can save $500 (for example) in utility bills
How would you price your OLED monitor? adamj023 claims that you would sell your OLED monitor for less than $3000.

The point I want to make is that the claim makes no economic sense: you will definitely sell your OLED monitor for significantly more than $3000, regardless of how much it costs you to make it.
 
chklin said:
Suppose you have a 20" OLED monitor that you want to sell. You know that:
  1. Your OLED monitor is much better than any LCD monitor
  2. People pay $2500 (for example) to buy high-end 20" LCD monitors
  3. Since OLED uses much less power, over the life of the monitor an OLED user can save $500 (for example) in utility bills
How would you price your OLED monitor? adamj023 claims that you would sell your OLED monitor for less than $3000.

The point I want to make is that the claim makes no economic sense: you will definitely sell your OLED monitor for significantly more than $3000, regardless of how much it costs you to make it.
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Well, initially - quite likely, but in the long term, they are most likely to go down to a resonable price. Maybe adam needs to clarify that he is talking about a slightly longer term than you. I mean - duhh, of course newer tech is going a have a price premium on it.
 
I understand the point and agree organic light displays are the future in quality and eventually cost production/yield, but, really, I'm willing to bet we are not going to see non-boutique 22+" PC displays within the next 3 years within the realm of reasonable purchasing price. LG can do all the market speak that it wants to make, but I'm not believing it until I see OLED plants up and running mass production at greater than 7". I have seen production units delayed almost a year (think: Samsung's LED edgelit XL2370) since announcement. And that was hardly disruptive technology, they had the mfg facilities in place, and w/r/t OLED we're still talking essentially about prototypes.

Until then, I am satisfied with my LCD as a stop-gap measure. If OLED looks far off, I'm hopefully that maybe some day there will be a backlit LED IPS with local dimming in two years. I would buy it if the price and quality are right while I wait for the holy grail.

But I'm also remembering that you were very price sensitive over a ~$40 variance when you were on the fence about the NEC 23" display. It will be the same with OLED displays, but on a much higher scale. If you're happy with the CRT, great, but at some point I suggest that you view your purchase as more of a stopgap until the next-best-thing. But if you are willing to wait for years, then that's fine too.
 
a nice 24" affordable oled, that is 400 or less wont be around till 2016 at least.
 
sippm said:
...Until then, I am satisfied with my LCD as a stop-gap measure. If OLED looks far off, I'm hopefully that maybe some day there will be a backlit LED IPS with local dimming in two years. I would buy it if the price and quality are right while I wait for the holy grail...
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LG 42LH90 for like $1330 a few weeks ago...
 
Ladic said:
a nice 24" affordable oled, that is 400 or less wont be around till 2016 at least.
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Looking at how prices dropped for LCDs once they became popular I would say that you're quite pessimistic.
 
http://gear.ign.com/articles/104/1040749p1.html

The news was delivered by LG's VP of OLED sales and marketing Won Kim during the FPD show in Japan, who took the time to lay out the company's OLED road map. Kim said that LG plans on releasing 20-inch and larger OLED panels in 2010, with 30-inch models coming in 2011 and 40-inch editions in 2012. He confirmed that 40-inch OLEDs will be "fairly expensive" in 2012, though "OLED panels will cost less than LCD panels in 2016."
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Such things must be taken with a grain of salt, as it assumes things will fall into place. There still could be speed bumps on the road.
 
Look: All the information about time schedules, production costs and everything else is all fully disclosed information.

OLED vs LCD pricing when volume production gets underway:

20" LCD TV = $200.00. OLED 20" = $300.00

OLED is right now $2500 with only one brand and model for 11" which has fallen to $2000 in price.

The LG 15" is unclear what the pricing will be. But 2 OLED models will not be sufficient to bring the price curve down right now. Volume production has not commenced.

It remains to be seen what differences in quality will be between different OLED products. We have no reviews on these products except for one high end SONY set.

Right now if you go into a Costco or an electronics store you will see LCD sets on the shelves. Maybe the Sony if the store is one of the few to have them since only 1000 a month are produced.

When the stores have various models and supplies of OLED on the shelves, prices will not be extraordinarily high but will be higher than the LCD products which will also coexist with them. And it is unclear how many OLED models will exist.

LCDs will be falling in price further and the truth is for most people the LCD TV's are good enough right now. For me, I have a CRT monitor and nothing but OLED will suffice right now.

I have a 26" Panasonic LCD TV and a 19" Hitachi CRT right now. You may say why I didn't go to a LCD monitor but it has to do with energy costs and the fact that computer viewing is done much closer up than an LCD TV requiring higher resolutions.

I still believe LCD is good enough for most people's viewing needs as of today. But when you see the OLED vs LCD side by side and take into account energy cost savings, I believe the OLED is going to be the superior product.

That 11" Sony OLED and 15" LG OLED are too small and the 20"+ ones are not out yet. I do believe firms like Viewsonic and NEC will likely use OLED on their future models. It is to be expected. Panels aren't even here yet so if we see announcements on models it will not be for awhile yet.

eIPS in good sizes was released in late 2009 for monitors. Late 2011 is prolly when in all honesty I will be buying my monitor based on my estimation.

News is ongoing. I am not buying anything and am in full waiting mode for OLED models and annoucements. eIPS quality is just inferior compared to what I am used to so the low cost eIPS for me are out of the question. H-IPS are also inferior.

When OLED is out in full scale, quality will be superior plus the monitor will be even thinner than existing LCDs and energy usage costs will be minimal. All around a total winner depending on how the monitors actually perform and look in person when they are introduced.

For 2009 press releases are going to be minimal to non existant for OLED. 2010 and 2011 is when we may hear more.
 
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The fact that <9" OLED screens are being used everywhere without noticeably affecting the pricing of the gadget it's used in shows that mass-production does help bring the price down :)
 
adamj023 said:
OLED just blows away IPS in every direction
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have you seen the BOE-Hydis AFFS+ screens? 0 color shift, and 180/180 viewing. black is BLACK. blacker than CRT imo.

granted, they need a powerful backlight, and BOE doesnt make screens larger than 12" that i can tell, focusing on the device/embeddded market
 
carmen said:
have you seen the BOE-Hydis AFFS+ screens? 0 color shift, and 180/180 viewing. black is BLACK. blacker than CRT imo.

granted, they need a powerful backlight, and BOE doesnt make screens larger than 12" that i can tell, focusing on the device/embeddded market
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The mere fact that it has a backlight makes it inferior to OLED..
 
carmen said:
have you seen the BOE-Hydis AFFS+ screens? 0 color shift, and 180/180 viewing. black is BLACK. blacker than CRT imo.

granted, they need a powerful backlight, and BOE doesnt make screens larger than 12" that i can tell, focusing on the device/embeddded market
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Yeah, I had an X60 Tablet with their 12.1" SXGA+ screen (1400x1050)

It was a great display, for a laptop.

  • Contrast is not better then CRT. Decent, but only 800:1. Nothing compared to OLED. Not really better then IPS. Black is definitely not blacker then SPVA or similar.
  • Veiwing angles are best for LCD, but only slightly better then IPS. There is most definitely still color shift and contrast shift. Viewing angles are 180/180 only if you consider IPS 180/180.
 
I'd probably be willing to drop $1000 for a 23/24" 1920x1200 OLED screen if,

  • it has a decent lifespan
  • built in calibration, aging correction to ensure consistant performance as blue elements fade
  • zero or near zero input (this is a must, there is no excuse for any input lag, IMO. These screens don't need any of the acceleration techniques and buffering needed for LCDs.)
 
Sumitomo Chemical is working with Panasonic on their OLED's so I believe Viewsonic will likely use Sumitomo Chemical OLED's on their models in the future.

Japan still seems to be way ahead of the curve on display technologies.

Unclear who the competitive landscape will feature and what will become available and how competitors models will perform against each other for OLED.

Nothing is available right now in terms of computer monitors for OLED.

However I will replace this one with OLED when they become available in nice size ranges. eIPS and H-IPS just don't hold a candle to OLED.
 
http://www.oled-info.com/lg-display-oled-ltps-fab-construction-photo

LG plant is under construction in that photo and will be ready for 1st half 2010.

AUO has a 14" OLED that will begin production soon. Lots of competitors and it will definitely not be long till we see OLED Monitors being announced.

The wheels are in motion and the factories are on their way up. Not to mention how many factories right now exist for LCD yet quality on them is not up to par due to technological limitations.
 
okashira said:
[*]zero or near zero input (this is a must, there is no excuse for any input lag, IMO. These screens don't need any of the acceleration techniques and buffering needed for LCDs.)
[/LIST]
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Displayport has a Direct Drive ability, allowing the PC or other hardware to control the output. The monitor would do zero processing, resulting in almost zero input lag. By the time affordable OLED gets here this should be relatively common. Add the ability to run 1920x1080/1200 @ 240hz with Displayport 1.2.... drool.
 
Matija said:
Aren't OLED monitors going to be wide gamut?
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Not necessarily. Standard and wide are both possible, although the trend appears to be among new displays to make them wide gamut.
 
My crystal ball tells me we still have 3-4 years before we can start putting 22" 1920x1080 $500 Oleds onto our desks.
 
Elledan said:
Not necessarily. Standard and wide are both possible, although the trend appears to be among new displays to make them wide gamut.
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And I'd expect them to have an even wider gamut than current LCDs. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if 100% NTSC was common in a few years.
 
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Given that there are fewer materials in general in the production process, im hoping for a quicker price drop curve than LCD had. Not that i think fewer materials necessarily means easier, but i can hope.

Im hoping to pay 6-700 for a 22-23" in 2012-2013.
 
11" OLED from Sony $2k. When tested came to half brightness in 1000 hours.

15" OLED from LG (soon), $2600.

Double the 11", add the usual "large screen" tax and you are talking 5-7k for a 22" screen. You have many, many years to wait for these things to be mass produced, and the craze to die off enough to get prices even close to double what you'd pay for a similar LCD. Think SSD costs at 10x the price.

Best putting these onto the "maybe someday" list...
 
Anemone said:
11" OLED from Sony $2k. When tested came to half brightness in 1000 hours.

15" OLED from LG (soon), $2600.

Double the 11", add the usual "large screen" tax and you are talking 5-7k for a 22" screen. You have many, many years to wait for these things to be mass produced, and the craze to die off enough to get prices even close to double what you'd pay for a similar LCD. Think SSD costs at 10x the price.

Best putting these onto the "maybe someday" list...
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The LG screen was launched this week in South Korea for $2,500 converted. It's also a 5th generation OLED screen versus the second gen of the XEL-1. There's a huge difference between both screens.

Samsung and LG are working on a 5.5 gen OLED production line at the moment. LG expects to churn out at least 40.000 panels a month for its current 15" OLED TV.

http://www.oled-display.net/lg-display-debut-the-15-inch-oled-tv-in-korea-this-week-for-2500-dollar
 
No matter how great OLED is 15" TV is a joke . They should use those screens as ultra high end laptop screens imho.
 
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