for the past few months my system would freeze while playing counter-strike....now in the last week it freezes every single time i'm in game and reboots itself every once in a while....i checked and my +12V line is about 12.99.....i'm upgrading to an athlon64 and 6800 video card later this week....should i get a new power supply too ???
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old antec going bad?
- Thread starter ngk
- Start date
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2001
- Messages
- 27,174
your exhibiting classic symptoms of an overloaded rail
a little too high a draw of assorted components, with an increaseing temperature, that decrases the capacity the supply is able to produce and
crash
well as far as calculators goes, that one sucks (sorry)
its very important to actually determine the amps per rail
and not all calculators are automatically the worse case senerio
I use > takaman's Power Supply Calaculator v2
which does have the option to set a utilization percentage, and to manually enter amp values for a given component
which is very handy if you have real world test values like
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: ATi
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: Nvidia
(all the better because they break out the draw between the AGP and the auxillary connector, which on an ATX12V v2.0 is on different +12V rails)
and various databases like Processor Electrical Specifications
(if the board has a +12V auxillary you add to the +12V otherwise it goes on the +5V rail,
and you convert the watts to amps for the appropriate rail, AMPS = Watts / Voltage)
or the actual spec sheets on the components (like say from Seagate)
that way Im able to run multiple calculations
first I do a "full" calculation, of all the additive maximums of the components
then for an ATX12V v2.0 supply or an EPS12V supply I repeat that for the +12V1, +12V2 and additionaly for EPS12V +12V3\+12V4 rails
then I run a "realworld" worse case senerio,
Its just as likely Im helping someone calculate a NAS as a lean gaming rig
so a "spinup" calculation is the first criteria
all the fans and HDDs\RAID arrays at 100% value and a 25% value for the CPU\GPU, often that will tell me if a more powerful supply is needed simply to boot or if the NAS\SAN need to employ a controller with a delayed spinup option
(common on SCSI controllers, and found on quite a few ATA)
once the fans and HDDs are spinning they will drop to 1\4 of their full rating, so I recalculate with that value as a static load, and throw in a 100% CPU\GPU and single optical (full spinup draw) for a worse case senerio realworld
Interpreting the veracity of a manufacturer is the tricky part
since we dont get to actually see the engineering test specs
which will typically say sometghing like
rated for full power at 25C decreasing linearly to no power at 70C
and your operating temperature being around 40C
generally I start with deducting a third
off the rated amps for temperature
and then start to match to the baselines, factor in thermal considerations (PSU placement, type of thermal solution for the rig,) and special factors like overclocking or usage patterns (NAS\Server\Workstation\word processor
),
when I actually make recommendations however I typical build in a healthier safety value than the "real world" worse case senerio unless someone has specifically stated they are running a UPS, when there is a brownout, the nominal AC Voltage (110 or 220) sags to a lower value (say 90) the PSU has to draw more amps from the AC line inorder to maintain its DC output, and that is a real test of the DC load regulation,, so a combination of the three factors, total load on a given rail, temperature and source stability can combine to form a worse case senerio where you crash
any PSU will crash when the brownout gets to extreme, the question becomes how great a range it has and yet still maintain stable DC output, you see this specified for a supply as the Operating Range
here are a few examples
PCP&C 510.................... 90 to 264 VAC, 47 to 63Hz
Enermax EG565P............90 to 135V or 180 to 265V, 47 to 63Hz
Neopower........................100 to 240 VAC. 47 to 63Hz
Ultra-X POWmax..............115 to 230 VAC 50 to 60Hz
as the range decreases so does the ability of the supply to soldier through a sag or surge without a fluctuation to the rail, and it "should" shutdown before it actually lets a overshoot or undershoot through, in cheap supplies this often isnt the case and is how boards get fried
a little too high a draw of assorted components, with an increaseing temperature, that decrases the capacity the supply is able to produce and
crash
kesv said:
well as far as calculators goes, that one sucks (sorry)
its very important to actually determine the amps per rail
and not all calculators are automatically the worse case senerio
I use > takaman's Power Supply Calaculator v2
which does have the option to set a utilization percentage, and to manually enter amp values for a given component
which is very handy if you have real world test values like
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: ATi
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: Nvidia
(all the better because they break out the draw between the AGP and the auxillary connector, which on an ATX12V v2.0 is on different +12V rails)
and various databases like Processor Electrical Specifications
(if the board has a +12V auxillary you add to the +12V otherwise it goes on the +5V rail,
and you convert the watts to amps for the appropriate rail, AMPS = Watts / Voltage)
or the actual spec sheets on the components (like say from Seagate)
that way Im able to run multiple calculations
first I do a "full" calculation, of all the additive maximums of the components
then for an ATX12V v2.0 supply or an EPS12V supply I repeat that for the +12V1, +12V2 and additionaly for EPS12V +12V3\+12V4 rails
then I run a "realworld" worse case senerio,
Its just as likely Im helping someone calculate a NAS as a lean gaming rig
so a "spinup" calculation is the first criteria
all the fans and HDDs\RAID arrays at 100% value and a 25% value for the CPU\GPU, often that will tell me if a more powerful supply is needed simply to boot or if the NAS\SAN need to employ a controller with a delayed spinup option
(common on SCSI controllers, and found on quite a few ATA)
once the fans and HDDs are spinning they will drop to 1\4 of their full rating, so I recalculate with that value as a static load, and throw in a 100% CPU\GPU and single optical (full spinup draw) for a worse case senerio realworld
Interpreting the veracity of a manufacturer is the tricky part
since we dont get to actually see the engineering test specs
which will typically say sometghing like
rated for full power at 25C decreasing linearly to no power at 70C
and your operating temperature being around 40C
generally I start with deducting a third
off the rated amps for temperature
and then start to match to the baselines, factor in thermal considerations (PSU placement, type of thermal solution for the rig,) and special factors like overclocking or usage patterns (NAS\Server\Workstation\word processor
), when I actually make recommendations however I typical build in a healthier safety value than the "real world" worse case senerio unless someone has specifically stated they are running a UPS, when there is a brownout, the nominal AC Voltage (110 or 220) sags to a lower value (say 90) the PSU has to draw more amps from the AC line inorder to maintain its DC output, and that is a real test of the DC load regulation,, so a combination of the three factors, total load on a given rail, temperature and source stability can combine to form a worse case senerio where you crash
any PSU will crash when the brownout gets to extreme, the question becomes how great a range it has and yet still maintain stable DC output, you see this specified for a supply as the Operating Range
here are a few examples
PCP&C 510.................... 90 to 264 VAC, 47 to 63Hz
Enermax EG565P............90 to 135V or 180 to 265V, 47 to 63Hz
Neopower........................100 to 240 VAC. 47 to 63Hz
Ultra-X POWmax..............115 to 230 VAC 50 to 60Hz
as the range decreases so does the ability of the supply to soldier through a sag or surge without a fluctuation to the rail, and it "should" shutdown before it actually lets a overshoot or undershoot through, in cheap supplies this often isnt the case and is how boards get fried