ok so i made a mistake...

A

Asmoranomar

n00b
Joined
May 3, 2005
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...but i refuse to get discouraged into abandoning my watercooling project. I do need some guidance though, and I hope the experience here will help me out.

I purchased the DD NV-68SLI waterblock combo and failed to realize that the block only works with the asus board (note: the sli gap is larger on the asus board). Well, now im trying to figure a way to modify the its design to make it work. Basically I need to locate a elbow 1/2" barb that has 9/16-18 threads. I haven't been able to find any locally and I am now searching thru the forums to find out if other people have done the same mistake as I. One post looked promising and I was able to find this barb here: http://www.polarflo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=21

Will this barb work? Does anyone know of any other sites/places i can find the barb im looking for? Does anyone know of an alternate work around to elbow barbs?

Also, if anyone else has had this experience before and found a way around it PLEASE let me know.

Below is a bad drawing of what im attempting to do...
drawing.JPG
 
I'm not sure if i want to take that route yet. That mod required him to drill another outlet in the acrylic and attach another barb. I dont currently have the hardware to make that type of modification (drill bit sizes and taps...). Also, I think i might need the elbow anyways because i dont think i have enough clearance at the bottom of my case to allow a straight barb - so im still in the same boat.
 
I believe all DD products use NPT threads. A 9/16-18 thread spec is 9/16 diameter and 18 threads per inch. A 1/4 NPT thread spec is 9/16 -18, but is also tapered. Now what gets really confusing here is that some people (like Polar Flo) are making a proprietary 9/16-18 straight thread that doesn't fit anybodys threads but their own. You buy a block from them you are a customer for life till you decide to get another block. So the best way to resolve this is to go to the hardware store and get a piece of pipe that has 1/4 NPT on it and use it like a thread gauge. :D
 
So I'm assuming that your answer is "No".

Well at least im close - I guess I have to do more searching to find a good 9/16-18 (1/4") Thread 1/2 Barb elbow....

Anyone out there know of any good places I can find this?
 
Top Nurse said:
Now what gets really confusing here is that some people (like Polar Flo) are making a proprietary 9/16-18 straight thread that doesn't fit anybodys threads but their own. You buy a block from them you are a customer for life till you decide to get another block.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that Danger Den also did that, but I might ( and probably am) mistaken.
 
ok now im getting really confused. Are you now saying the fitting DOES work?

Does DD and PolarFlo use tapered or untapered?

I thought NPT meant that it was tapered (the link i provided above says the elbow is NPT).

Also, I read somewhere that the if the 'male' was tapered and the 'female' was untapered that I could use some teflon tape to make the fitting secure, but it doesn't work the other way around. Any insight on that?

I just want to make sure I'm ordering the right parts before I decide to spend more money and time.
 
Ok here we go...

I found out that Top Nurse was right. 9/16-18 is the same as 1/4" NPT. Resource found here..

Also according to that site, NPT IS TAPERED. So....with that said the only piece of information i need is: Are the DD barbs tapered?

I'm not a mechanic or plumbing guru - just a computer geek. What is the difference between tapered and non-tapered? Is it something i can look at the threads and tell?

Any help would be nice (back to researching....)
 
More Info: I haven't figured out if DD uses Tapered or NonTapered. Actually I found out alot of information about pipes I really didn't want to know.

First - I found out thru various references and other forums that most watercooling equipment uses a standard called British Standard Pipe (BSP). This is subcategorized into different sections, one being BSPT (The T meaning "tapered") and another being BSPP (The P meaning "parallel"). This is the typical threads used for plumbing applications in places outside the U.S. (excluding Japan - they have their own funky standard.) Both standards can be used for watercooling applications. Typically the BSPP standard uses an additional rubber washer at the joint to create a seal.

Second - In the US, the standard is the National Pipe (NP) standard. There are also two subcategories called the NPT (The T meaning "tapered") and the NPS (The S meaning "straight"). These threads are the ones used for plumbing applications within the U.S. Also, like the British standard, the NPS uses a rubber washer at the joint to create a seal.

Now time to recap and put this information together. Keep in mind that I am relating this information only to this specific application so not all of the below is correct for every applicaiton:
The thread difference on the DD barb is key here. The NP and BSP head and thread standard is different. I am taking the information that the barb is using a 9/16-18 not only from Top Nurse, but from other posts here on the [H]ardforums. I think I read somewhere that DD support provided this information. If you compare the head size of the DD with the NP chart, you find that the value matches the 1/4" NP standard. Likewise, when you compare the head size of the DD with the BSP chart, it also matches the 1/4" BSP standard (There are minor differences between the two, but I don't know the exact conversion from 9/16 to OD for NP and BSP - and since we dont know if we are talking about NP or BSP we can't assume its one or the other). Now, if we take the thread per inch (TPI), we find out that the NP standard is 18 and the BSP is 19.

So we learn something about the specific barb DD uses. It is a 1/4" NP standard, but now we need to determine if it is NPT or NPS.


And here is where the confusion sets in...MOST people have been refering to NPT, im not even sure if people knew about the NPS or just assumed it was all the same. But if it was NPT, then we wouldn't need the rubber washers...or maybe the washers were included as a bonus to help create a stronger seal.

I don't know, and I feel i'm creeping ever-so-slowly to my answer. I don't yet know how to tell the difference between a tapered and non-tapered visually.

I also need to mention that I gathered all of this info across a few pages off google. And unfortunately I didn't save all of them as references to provide. To top that off, I did a whole half a second research on this topic, so chances are there are lots of missing parts and maybe even incorrect assumptions. There - you heard my notice.

Here are some of the resources I have on this topic:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:7qlobfkbTVcJ:forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php%3Fgoto%3Dlastpost%26t%3D10144+%22tapered+thread%22+non-tapered&hl=en
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/npt-national-pipe-taper-threads-16_750.html
http://www.newmantools.com/taps/bsp.htm

Whew, this was quite long...

So...now I need to find out what 'tapered' and 'non-tapered' look like... *back to google*
 
yeah i was kinda hinted at that while searching online. I wanted some 'visual' proof but I couldn't find any 'side by side' differences photos.

Unfortunately the threads are too tight together for me to tell if they are NPT or NPS. I want to say its NPS but I'm not 100% sure. This could cause some problems because I don't know where to find 1/4" NPS elbow 1/2" barbs.

I just found out that my local lowes may have some elbow barbs, i looked there earlier this week and didn't find the ones i wanted...I just didn't bring my waterblock with me at the time. Guess I'll do that tomorrow - I'm sure people have done weirder things than explain what the heck im holding as I walk thru the store looking for what I need...

Oh, and I'm thinking about that NPT and NPS male thread will work with NPS female thread I was talking about earlier...Maybe it doesn't even matter if I use NPT and NPS...but I can't find the link where I saw that bit of info..

Its really late and I'm starting to get delusional...I think I should get some sleep....
 
It is much harder to see a tapered internal thread than an external tapered thread. Especially when the internal thread is only about 5-6 threads long. You can use some straight threads in a tapered pipe thread, but you have to be aware that you will undoubtedly only be hanging on to maybe 1-2 threads maximum. As I also mentioned before many of the NPT threads have a pretty big bevel on the starting threads which often does not allow for proper sealing of a BSPP threaded fitting that uses a o-ring to do the actual sealing. The bottom line is to only use the proper fittings with the mating thread spec. To do otherwise is to court disaster. :eek:
 
CAD OC'er said:
Danger Den fittings use a 9/16 straight thread with O-Ring Seal.: http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=70&cat=34&page=1
Click to expand...

Just because some manufacturer calls it a 9/16 straight thread does not mean it is a BSPP thread. The BSPP fittings have an o-ring that fits in a recess in the shoulder and seals on the face of the mating part. The DD fitting uses an o-ring, but it just sits in a thread recess and seals on the thread itself. As I pointed out earlier, do yourself a favor and don't use different thread specs on your water cooling parts even if it seems like it might work if you apply gobs of pipe sealant.
 
Top Nurse said:
Just because some manufacturer calls it a 9/16 straight thread does not mean it is a BSPP thread. The BSPP fittings have an o-ring that fits in a recess in the shoulder and seals on the face of the mating part. The DD fitting uses an o-ring, but it just sits in a thread recess and seals on the thread itself. As I pointed out earlier, do yourself a favor and don't use different thread specs on your water cooling parts even if it seems like it might work if you apply gobs of pipe sealant.
Click to expand...

:confused: It's not a BSPP thread nor did anyone say that it is. And every tapered thread requires a sealant.
 
Just because some manufacturer calls it a 9/16 straight thread does not mean it is a BSPP thread. The BSPP fittings have an o-ring that fits in a recess in the shoulder and seals on the face of the mating part. The DD fitting uses an o-ring, but it just sits in a thread recess and seals on the thread itself. As I pointed out earlier, do yourself a favor and don't use different thread specs on your water cooling parts even if it seems like it might work if you apply gobs of pipe sealant.
Click to expand...

Except the manufacture also says the thread is 18 TPI, which makes it NP standard thread for its size, not BSP standard.

I was confused on this at first also, because MOST watercooling is BSP. But this one isn't. Check my lengthy post above to learn the difference.
 
er, excuse me, but please just call or email DD. They are tops on customer service and if someone cannot answer your question right off the top of their head, I am sure someone will get back to you ASAP and you will have it from the horses mouth.

All my DD blocks have std 1/4 NTP pipe threads but I have not bought one in over a year.

Also here http://www.mcmaster.com/

you will find most every kind of fitting that exists as well as descriptions and compatiblilty of the differing pipe thread standards. Do a search on "Threaded Pipe Connections" for discussion of pipe threads. Page 223 of the catalog will probally fix you up and you should be able to find the part at any good home center or hardware store if it is 1/4NPT x 90 degree 1/2 ID hose barb . Lowes has them in plastic and brass.

Oh and tapered pipe threads where specifically designed to eliminate the need for sealant on the joint. You would be nuts not to wrap some teflon tape around them anyway as the design also requires that they be extreamly tightly screwed together not to leak. Much more torque than you want to apply to watercooling components.
 
Wow you guys are helpful. Just when I want to give up I find some more promising news.

I may have to cut the barbs down as indicated in the previous post. It seems like that is one of the better solutions.


I can say that the elbow technique will NOT work. There is no clearance to attach an elbow barb, or an elbow male/female joint. That really sucked. I really didn't want to try the male-male 1/4" NPS 1 1/2" length pipe but i did anyways...it didn't hold a good seal at all even with teflon. Out of the whole mess that was the only option that looked like it would have worked (poorly at that). But in the end it leaked terribly.

I do have a dremel, but I'm not very handy. Any tips on how to cut the barb straight and what grit of paper i need to sand it all down?
 
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