Official BenQ FP241W Thread !!! Info, Pictures, Reviews

toasty pwnd the thread :)

thanx toast. better to know the truth than digest lies. I wish it worked... VW version of benq is 10xmore of what I want in a monitor than any other.
 
Well I found out that I must hold down "B" when starting the game cube to get progressive scan rather than interlaced. The picture looks a lot better with 480p, but the scaling is the same.

To be honest the picture looks good enough to me, I am not watching movies or anything on the game cube, so a tiny bit of vertical stretching is not that bad.

However if you are using component for some kind of video playback at 480p, then it would be a bit of a pain I guess.

Also I have no game cube games with 16:9 ratio, sorry.......
 
argh.

most important setting is 480p/480i

20x more than 1080p.

2nd most is 1080i and 720p for broadcast hd.

I wanted to put my up and comming Wii through this, but alas, all is broke and so I just get a 26" planar and pump all through the pc.
 
OK how about this then. DVI and D-Sub seems to grey out the overscan option, but all other modes have the option there! :cool:

All the previous pictures of my game cube were taken with overscan turned on, I did not realise this. So I turned overscan off and selected aspect, here is the result:



Now to me that looks like the right aspect ratio, yes? :)

Cheers :D
 
Here is an in game shot, 480p, overscan off and aspect mode selected:



You can see that much more of the screen is now displayed. Look at the menu in the top right hand corner, where the "R" button is located :D

Great stuff! :cool:
 
RockoW said:
Oh, another question. Does the image from the GC change if you select overscan on or off?
Click to expand...

Thanks for asking that question RockoW, I would not have thought of checking otherwise. I thought overscan was just related to HDMI :)

My game cube is a US version I purchased via ebay, 480p works great now that overscan is switched off, much more of the screen is visable and the aspect ratio looks miles better!

Cheers :D
 
No, that's still not right. GameCube games are underscanned on the sides, so it's actually adding small black bars. You could see this if you can somehow change the black bars on the monitor to another color. It's still being stretched to 3:2.

Edit: Actually, you can tell by setting it to full. There should still be black bars.
 
Huh? Could you re-state that post please, I don't follow it at all, cheers :)

Turning overscan off gives back the 5% of the screen that was being removed by zooming in. Now the image that the game cube outputs is being displayed correctly, at least to my eyes it looks right.

On a 16:10 ratio screen a 4:3 ratio image should have large black bars on the left and right, which is exactly what we have in that picture.
 
I'm still most curious on how it shows Wii games in 16:9 480p.... I guess there is still a tiny shread of hope...
 
The picture is showing a 3:2 image which has its own black bars. Try setting it to full. You should still see black bars.

It's definitely not 4:3. The black bars are still not large enough for 4:3.
 
ToastyX said:
The picture is showing a 3:2 image which has its own black bars. Try setting it to full. You should still see black bars.

It's definitely not 4:3. The black bars are still not large enough for 4:3.
Click to expand...

What about with the xbox 360 doing 1080p? Is that working?
 
pixelperfect said:
What about with the xbox 360 doing 1080p? Is that working?
Click to expand...
I don't have this monitor or an Xbox 360. I'm just going by what the pictures are showing. The 1080p pictures look fine, but that's with HDMI. Someone will have to test VGA.
 
That blue lobster shirt is badass..I gotta get one of those.

I would be interested to see 480P at widescreen aspect as well. The updated firmware V2 could never do that.

I am so glad the PS3 does all the up scaling now, so no matter what media you play, DVD, PS one games etc, the monitor thinks it is receiving a 1080P signal because the PS3 is up scaling (at proper aspect as well) and not the monitor. Before the PS3 1.8 firmware this monitor and playing anything at 480i/p was not so hot.

*hugs PS3*
 
If the game cube adds black bars to the sides of the image it outputs, then obviously the monitor will have them there when set to fill, as it does. So the monitor is displaying the image correctly, exactly as it was sent from the video source, in the case, the game cube.

Here is my monitor set to 640x480 via VGA and set to aspect mode:



As you can see the black bars are displayed, in the same way that the game cube image was. I think the image is displayed correctly in both cases, the black bars are there as they should be, the image is not stretched or distorted.

The black bars would be bigger on a 16:9 screen to be sure, but this is a 16:10 monitor.

So I disagree with you, I think this is a perfect 640x480 image displayed, I can see no stretching or distortion.

Cheers :D

EDIT: Looking really closely, I think the bars are a tiny bit smaller on the game cube image, by a few mm or so. Still nothing to complain about and in no way a drastic flaw as you seem to be making out :D
 
Mickey,

I hate to be *that guy* but,

640 by 480 is a different aspect ratio then 480P/I which is 720 by 480 or sometimes 720 by 486.

Just a friendly correction.
 
BrokenAnimator said:
Mickey,

I hate to be *that guy* but,

640 by 480 is a different aspect ratio then 480P/I which is 720 by 480 or sometimes 720 by 486.

Just a friendly correction.
Click to expand...

480p can be 640x480, 702x480 or 720x480. I'm not familiar with the GC's progressive scan output, but it likely depends on the game. Some will be regular 480p (640x480), and some will be widescreen 480p (720x480). My guess is the games that Mickey has shown are all the former.
 
True, but the game cube outputs 640x480 :)

That is what the 480p mode is.

EDIT: Yep 720x480 would be widescreen, I have no widscreen games though :(
 
Mickey Padge said:
If the game cube adds black bars to the sides of the image it outputs, then obviously the monitor will have them there when set to fill, as it does. So the monitor is displaying the image correctly, exactly as it was sent from the video source, in the case, the game cube.
Click to expand...
You don't seem to get it. The black bars from the GameCube are adding to the black bars on the monitor, making you think it's being displayed correctly when it's not. It's still being scaled to 3:2, just like it is with overscan on.
 
Here is a comparison of the 640x480 modes on the game cube via component and VGA.





I taped the edges of the screen, so you can see that there is about 4-5mm difference on each black bar. Well within my threshold of acceptable image quality. There is not any noticable image distortion and Link does not seem "fat" :p

The fact that the game cube is adding black bars to the edges of it's video output, says to me that it may not be outputing a true 4:3 signal anyway. The monitor may actually be displaying the excact signal, as it is being received :)

Anyway this is a massive improvement over the old firmware, if anyone wants to send me a widescreen game cube game........ ;) :D
 
Mickey Padge said:
I taped the edges of the screen, so you can see that there is about 4-5mm difference on each black bar. Well within my threshold of acceptable image quality. There is not any noticable image distortion and Link does not seem "fat" :p
Click to expand...
You didn't take the black bars from the GameCube into account. The difference is more than just a few mm. You don't notice the distortion because you're used to it.

Mickey Padge said:
The fact that the game cube is adding black bars to the edges of it's video output, says to me that it may not be outputing a true 4:3 signal anyway. The monitor may actually be displaying the excact signal, as it is being received :)
Click to expand...
480p is 720x480, but it's supposed to be scaled to 4:3 or 16:9. It should never be treated as 3:2 like the BenQ is doing.
 
I think you are being pedantic :)

My original Benq monitor had zero aspect ratio options and no overscan settings, it was an early firmware revision.

Everything was overscanned and stretched to fill the screen, this new firmware is most welcome and as mentioned, a HUGE improvement

As for being used to the distortion, this is the first time I have used the game cube with this screen, or in fact used the game cube at all for ages

The picture quality is fine, and as I have demonstrated only a few mm away from a 640x480 4:3 picture, which is all that really matters.

If the monitor treated the signal from the game cube including the black bars as 4:3 then the image would appear very squashed, and link would look very thin :p

480p is not just 720x480, it can also be 640x480 too.....
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
no it can't be
Click to expand...

How about a quote?

The ATSC digital television standards define 480p with either 704x480 (non-square sampling) or 640x480 (square sampling) pixel resolutions, at 24, 30, or 60 Hertz frame rates. A 16:9 aspect ratio is defined at 720x480 pixels, using non-square, anamorphic sampling.

Both 480p24 and 480p30 are more common in countries that use or have used the interlaced NTSC system like North America and Japan (these formats are somewhat compatible with that system, when used to broadcast progressive film content).

Or how about this?

There are also 5 formats of 480 lines of resolution progressive, known as EDTV (Enhanced Definition Television), which offers less that HDTV, but more than SDTV. EDTV use a 4:3 aspect ratio. The 5 formats of EDTV are;

480p -704x480 pixels progressive, 30 frames per second
480p -704x480 pixels progressive, 60 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 24 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 30 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 60 frames per second
 
RockoW said:
I'm still most curious on how it shows Wii games in 16:9 480p.... I guess there is still a tiny shread of hope...
Click to expand...

Does Wii output 852x480 when in 16:9? I've been told it does, but I don't care to rely on hearsay and I can't find a definitive answer with google
 
so the update is available in the uk then :D
how did you get the update? (send it off or travelled to the service centre or bought it with the update)
 
They did an exchange, taking my monitor and giving me a direct replacement at the same time :) No waiting for an upgrade.....

Parceline did the direct exchange. The first swap was not good, as the monitor they gave me did not have the overscan option and the DVI port did not work! :eek:

So when that monitor was swapped again, I got this new one with overscan settings, and of course the DVI works fine :)

Great service really, I was not without a monitor at any time. Apart from the first bad monitor they sent, everything was cool :cool:
 
Mickey Padge said:
True, but the game cube outputs 640x480 :)

That is what the 480p mode is.

EDIT: Yep 720x480 would be widescreen, I have no widscreen games though :(
Click to expand...

JBark said:
480p can be 640x480, 702x480 or 720x480. I'm not familiar with the GC's progressive scan output, but it likely depends on the game. Some will be regular 480p (640x480), and some will be widescreen 480p (720x480). My guess is the games that Mickey has shown are all the former.
Click to expand...

Wait, hold on there.

The gamecube might be outputting at 640 by 480 and that is 480P and a 1.0 Device pixel aspect ratio, I don't know that as I don't have a gamecube. If that is the case then the monitor is displaying things correctly.

Standard NTSC resolution (which I assume is what most gaming consoles would run at in 480) is 720 by 486 with a .9 pixel aspect ratio. Meaning most broadcast TV you watch is this resolution.

*long boring explanation, ok to skip*

For ease of typing 1.3 = 1.3333333333333333333333333333333

If you take 640 and divide by 480 then times it by the pixel aspect ratio 1.0 you get 1.3 Device aspect ratio.

If you take 720 divide by 486 then times it by .9 you get 1.3 device aspect ratio. Which is the NTSC standard.

.9 is the device aspect ratio or aspect per pixel.

1.3 is a "4:3" aspect ratio. Take 4 and divide by 3, you get 1.3.

So now we know 4:3 is 1.3 as 16:9 is 1.7 by simply dividing them:

16:9 = 1.777778
4:3 = 1.3333333333333333333333333333333

Widescreen aspect ratio is for 480i/p 720 by 405:

720 by 405 with a 1.777778 device aspect ratio. it's simple math:

16:9 is 16 pixel wide by 9 pixel high ... which is
16/9 = 1.777778 =720/486 = X/Y
Y = X/1.77777778

720 by 405 with a 1.77777778 Device aspect ratio or 16:9

Again for the 4:3 aspect:
4:3 is 4 pixel wide by 3 pixel high ... which is
4:3 = 1.3333333333333333333333333333333 = 720/486 * .9 = X/Y
Y = X/1.3333333333333333333333333333333 *.9

What the Benq is doing is taking these figures and treating it like 3:2, which is 1.5 device aspect ratio.

The benq is doing this instead:

3:2 is 3 pixel wide by 2 pixel high ... which is
3/2 = 1.5 = 720/486 = 720/486 * .9= X/Y
Y = X/1.5 * .9

You get 720 by 432 !!! with a 1.5 device aspect ratio or 3:2 aspect. Which is wrong. The monitor thinks it's getting this resolution and scaling away from that.

What the BenQ employees missed, was calculating the Device pixel aspect ratio correctly and that gives us what we see.

*End of long boring explanation*

So as we see, the BenQ is calculating 480I/p resolutions wrong in aspect mode from a mistake in the code. Any resolution that doesn't have a 1.0 device aspect ratio is scaled wrong, because the Device aspect ratio was miscalculated.

If the gamecube is outputting at 640 by 480 which is standard monitor resolution (VGA) then it is displaying correctly. If it is at standard NTSC at 720 by 486 with .9 device aspect ratio then it is not. All devices should have the proper device aspect ratio settings to display all resolutions at 4:3, 16:9, or for monitors 16:10, it is up to what ever is upscaling the media to have the right calculations, (in this case the monitor), which it does not.

It is simply not scaling properly because of an error by the BenQ engineers. It's such a simple thing too, that never should of happen.
 
That being said, I watch 480i/P TV on my digital box all the time on this monitor....you get use to it, it's not a big deal. Still an easy fix though for Benq.
 
Just to interject, all Gamecubes output 720x480 in both 4:3 and 16:9 modes, they rely on the destination display to do scaling. The Wii is exactly the same in this regard.
 
Mickey Padge said:
480p is not just 720x480, it can also be 640x480 too.....
Click to expand...
480p is always treated as 720x480 as far as I have seen, which is a 3:2 resolution, but regardless of the resolution, the aspect ratio should always be 4:3 or 16:9, never 3:2 like your pictures show.

If you're not bothered by the distortion, that's fine, but you keep insisting there's no significant distortion when there is. It's more than just a few mm. It's more like an inch on each side. It's being stretched by 12.5%. That's a significant amount. It's just as bad as stretching 16:9 to 16:10. You can even see it in the button map. The circles are fat.
 
Mickey Padge said:
How about a quote?

The ATSC digital television standards define 480p with either 704x480 (non-square sampling) or 640x480 (square sampling) pixel resolutions, at 24, 30, or 60 Hertz frame rates. A 16:9 aspect ratio is defined at 720x480 pixels, using non-square, anamorphic sampling.

Both 480p24 and 480p30 are more common in countries that use or have used the interlaced NTSC system like North America and Japan (these formats are somewhat compatible with that system, when used to broadcast progressive film content).

Or how about this?

There are also 5 formats of 480 lines of resolution progressive, known as EDTV (Enhanced Definition Television), which offers less that HDTV, but more than SDTV. EDTV use a 4:3 aspect ratio. The 5 formats of EDTV are;

480p -704x480 pixels progressive, 30 frames per second
480p -704x480 pixels progressive, 60 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 24 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 30 frames per second
480p -640x480 pixels progressive, 60 frames per second
Click to expand...

I didnt enjoy wikipedia being incorrect the first time, now as for a second one, I will pass.

the tv industry is not allowed to say true 480p anymore on cheap lcd's for the kitchen on account of this. they say 640x480 and can accept 480p/480i.
 
BrokenAnimator said:
That being said, I watch 480i/P TV on my digital box all the time on this monitor....you get use to it, it's not a big deal. Still an easy fix though for Benq.
Click to expand...


easy yes, but they dont care about you. If they did, they would have tested it and fixed it.

that's why I say screw you to Benq for lying/misleading and then saying "we will fix it if you complain for a year, dont worry!"
 
Some one on this forum must have a Wii and this Benq monitor.

I am that close to buying the monitor!! and how the Wii performs really is a deciding factor.

Please Please Please any one post screen shots of Zelda Phantom Hourglass running through component 480p. I am sure there are people out there ... you no who you are!

Post pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Jay Jay
 
OK the image is stretched a tiny bit as I said before, but does not cause a massive distortion. It is not an inch on both sides :rolleyes: :p

I compared it with my 32" LCD and the image is very slightly stretched on the Benq. It is about 5mm on each side or a CM in total.

Anyway I am really happy with it, which is all that matters to me. The most important thing is that HDMI 1080p signals, with 1:1 selected, work perfectly now. There are not a lot of monitors in this price range where that is true ;) Great for my PS3 :cool:

I had the Dell 2407 before the Benq, and the Benq is without doubt the better monitor. No more screen tearing for me, and full 50hz PAL support! No crappy component image quality either.......

Anyone with this monitor should get the firmware upgrade done as soon as possible, it is well worth it :)

Cheers :D
 
Mickey Padge said:
Anyway I am really happy with it, which is all that matters to me. The most important thing is that HDMI 1080p signals, with 1:1 selected, work perfectly now. There are not a lot of monitors in this price range where that is true ;) Great for my PS3 :cool:
Click to expand...

Do you mind snapping a few (or more) pictures of the BenQ playing some PS3 games and BluRay movies?:D
 
this is indeed excellent news, especially because i have absolutely no damn use for 480i/p. you sure spurred a few comments mickey, im so happy to hear that it works right with the PS3. i hope it gets to newegg soon, and that they recognize that they actually have the correct firmware.

and like the guy before kind of said, if you want to know what aspect ratio your monitor is ACTUALLY displaying, you can measure (yes like with a tape measure or a ruler) the actual display that you can see on the screen, then just divide the length by the height. e.g. 12 inches lengh x 9 inches height = 1.333 and 4 divided by 3 also = 1.333 therefore you have a 4x3 display.

gawd i wish the damn price of this POS monitor would stop going up, fucking benq has no damn right to up the price to compensate for its shitty business tactics, and if there was any other company that offered what this monitor "supposedly" does i would buy it in a heartbeat over the benq.
 
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