Official 5830 Bashing thread.

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bastage

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as it appears to be impossible to read any thread without someone talking out there uneducated asses about how fail the 5830 is I figured I would make a post so that hopefully everyone that feels the need can simply crap here instead of every other thread in the video cards forum..

So Yes the 5850 is faster then the 5830.. No the 5830 doesn't cost as much since on newegg's current pricing its 70 bucks cheaper without rebates. No it doesn't use as much power as the 5870 & no its not as big as the 5870 either.

Yes the 5770 is a hell of a card for being the top of the mainstream. But no it doesn't perform better then the 5830. Yes it is cheaper, but its supposed to be isn't it since its a mainstream card not an enthusiast card.

So to sum it up.. If your paying a 5850's price for a 5830 your getting ripped off.. But if your paying in-between a 5770's & a 5850's cost then your doing just fine.

/me rant off
 
Riddlinkidstoner said:
I picked up a used 5830 for $170 on craigslist. Very happy.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
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I'd pay $179.99 for a new one. Performance wise I would rock 2 of them if i could afford to buy 2 of them over 2 HD5770s.
 
bastage said:
as it appears to be impossible to read any thread without someone talking out there uneducated asses about how fail the 5830 is I figured I would make a post so that hopefully everyone that feels the need can simply crap here instead of every other thread in the video cards forum..

So Yes the 5850 is faster then the 5830.. No the 5830 doesn't cost as much since on newegg's current pricing its 70 bucks cheaper without rebates. No it doesn't use as much power as the 5870 & no its not as big as the 5870 either.

Yes the 5770 is a hell of a card for being the top of the mainstream. But no it doesn't perform better then the 5830. Yes it is cheaper, but its supposed to be isn't it since its a mainstream card not an enthusiast card.

So to sum it up.. If your paying a 5850's price for a 5830 your getting ripped off.. But if your paying in-between a 5770's & a 5850's cost then your doing just fine.

/me rant off
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62620190_249d17d0b7_o.jpg
 
Given that its price where I am is way closer to the 5850 than the 5770, might as well spend an extra ~US$30-50 on the 5850 instead.
 
yimingwuzere said:
Given that its price where I am is way closer to the 5850 than the 5770, might as well spend an extra ~US$30-50 on the 5850 instead.
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It was 100 more in canada, and since there were none locally, add 20 shipping. Thats 120 more then i would ever spend on a GPU. With tax, 370ish.

Again, I've said this many times, I owned a 5770 that went to 1000/1350 and now the 5830, and the 5770 is not comparable at all. Overclock the 5830 and the extra 40 bucks is well worth it.

If im going to spend the extra 100 on the 5850, why not the extra 100 on top of that and get the 5870, since it's faster. Hell why not spend a alittle more and get the 5970. While we're at it, might as well just spend that extra few hundred more and get 2 5970's..

Hell for 80 more then the 5850 I could get 2 5830's.

If the 5850 were an option, don't you think people would just buy it? Does that not make any sense? Why would they even look at something slower?
 
bastage said:
So to sum it up.. If your paying a 5850's price for a 5830 your getting ripped off.. But if your paying in-between a 5770's & a 5850's cost then your doing just fine.

/me rant off
Click to expand...

How is that "bashing" ? This thread fails to deliver :p You should call this the "5830 Price to Performance Awareness Thread"

It seems like ATI has their bases covered across all price ranges this generation. Yeah, there may be 3rd party distributors who overcharge for some parts when there are better values out there, but that's not any fault of the 5830 or its MSRP.

It's up to the consumer to do the homework and get a good value for his or her hard earned dollar. I've learned much since 2004 when I bought a 512mb 6600 vanilla which sucked ass and cost more than a superior 128mb 6600 GT.
 
Zinn said:
How is that "bashing" ? This thread fails to deliver :p You should call this the "5830 Price to Performance Awareness Thread"
Click to expand...

And you failed to catch my sarcasm.. I am not a 5830 hater. I think the card is doing tis job well (I own a 5830 hawk that I paid less then 200 for). I am just tired of everyone saying the 5830 is crap in every thread I go to weather or not its even about the 5830 or ATI at all.
 
It's weird, I am sarcastic almost all the time, but I often fail to detect it in other people's writing. I wonder if there's an app for that.
 
If there is I hope my wife never finds it.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Seems like a huge rip when you could get a gtx260 or 4890 for so much cheaper and have it perform the same.
 
anonmoniker said:
Seems like a huge rip when you could get a gtx260 or 4890 for so much cheaper and have it perform the same.
Click to expand...

The 260 does not perform at the level of a 5830. You might find a game or two but overall it beats a 260 more often than it loses and usually by bigger margins. Then you've got triple monitor gaming and a DX11 spec which you can actually run on a 5830. That comparison is kinda silly.
 
The HD5830 is a great card at $200.

The HD5830 is much better than the HD5770 and has allowed much better settings in every game I have tried. When the HD5830 is priced closer to the HD5770 than the HD5850 its a great buy.
 
I'd have got a 5830 if they'd had a reference design, 3rd party coolers and power consumption are a bit hit and miss and likely responsible for the massive disparity in opinion.
 
Elsie said:
I'd have got a 5830 if they'd had a reference design, 3rd party coolers and power consumption are a bit hit and miss and likely responsible for the massive disparity in opinion.
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that could definitely be part of it. When I went looking for one I Wanted the Hawk because of its 3rd party cooler though. Stock coolers have failed me time & time again on the sound front & that is a major concern to me. Like anything you should read every review you can find on the product your interested in & everything similar. That way there are no surprises.
 
kac77 said:
The 260 does not perform at the level of a 5830. You might find a game or two but overall it beats a 260 more often than it loses and usually by bigger margins. Then you've got triple monitor gaming and a DX11 spec which you can actually run on a 5830. That comparison is kinda silly.
Click to expand...

Or get a used or clearance 260 or 275 for ~130. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 99% of the people buying 130 or 170$ graphics cards aren't that into buying 3 monitors. Furthermore, DX11 is cool and all, but it's currently about as noticable as PhysX in the real world, and while I'm sure that will change in the future, we're not there yet.

Also even if the 5830 is faster, it's not going to be the 30% faster the price dictates.
 
As I see it:
- Performance wise the 5830 is closer to 5770 than it is to 5850. (Most reviews suggest it's 25-30% faster than 5770, with 5850 being 100% faster than 5770.)
- Power consumption of 5830 is equal or greater than that of 5850, with 5770 using significantly less.
- Current pricing (in Sweden) is about half way between 5770 and 5850.

That makes both 5770 and 5850 better value for the money, so the only reason for buying one is if you have a real need to have more performance than the 5770 can provide, while at the same time being unable to afford a 5850.

For the 5830 to fit right in there it should be priced 25% above the 5770, not 50%.
 
vengence said:
Or get a used or clearance 260 or 275 for ~130. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 99% of the people buying 130 or 170$ graphics cards aren't that into buying 3 monitors. Furthermore, DX11 is cool and all, but it's currently about as noticable as PhysX in the real world, and while I'm sure that will change in the future, we're not there yet.

Also even if the 5830 is faster, it's not going to be the 30% faster the price dictates.
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sure there are only 6 DX11 games out.. & 8 more set to be released before the end of the year. There is also 9 different game engines that use DX11 (all that per wiki) Who knows the next year. But since I would be willing to wager that the guy spending 170ish on a graphics card isnt one to replace there card every 6 months the longer they keep it the more dx11 becomes a stronger selling point.
 
bastage said:
sure there are only 6 DX11 games out.. & 8 more set to be released before the end of the year. There is also 9 different game engines that use DX11 (all that per wiki) Who knows the next year. But since I would be willing to wager that the guy spending 170ish on a graphics card isnt one to replace there card every 6 months the longer they keep it the more dx11 becomes a stronger selling point.
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Allow me to point out the futility of such an argument. And keep in mind, this is me pointing out the futility of the argument, not advocating PhysX as some kind of uberness.

List of DX11 games currently on the market according to wiki:
Aliens vs. Predator[1]
BattleForge
Battlefield: Bad Company 2[3]
Dirt 2[4]
Metro 2033[5].
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
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Here's a list of "upcoming games"
Battlefield 1943
Civilization V[9]
Crysis 2[10]
Dungeons and Dragons Online[11]
F1 2010[12]
Genghis Khan – Treasure Hunter[13]
The Lord of the Rings Online[11]
Race Driver: Grid 2[12]
Click to expand...


That looks pretty impressive right? I mean that's like well over 10 games so it much have huge market share and going to have an immediate impact to change the face of gaming!

Lets have a look at PhysX, here's the list of current games which support it (does not include upcoming games) and wiki claims it may be incomplete.
2 Days to Vegas
Adrenalin 2: Rush Hour
Age of Empires III (Mac version only)
Alpha Prime
APB
Army of Two
Auto Assault
Alliance of Valiant Arms
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Backbreaker
B.A.S.E. Jumping
Bet on Soldier: Blackout Saigon
Bet on Soldier: Blood of Sahara
Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport
Beowulf: The Game
Bladestorm: The Hundred Years' War
Borderlands
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway
Captain Blood
CellFactor: Combat Training
CellFactor: Revolution
City of Villains
Crazy Machines 2
Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason
Dark Physics
Dark Void
Darkest of Days
Desert Diner
Dragon Age: Origins[22]
Dragonshard
Dusk 12
Empire Above All
Empire Earth III
Entropia Universe
Fallen Earth
Fat Princess
Frontlines: Fuel of War
Fury
Garshasp
Gears of War
Race Driver: Grid
Global Agenda
Gluk'Oza: Action
GooBall
Gothic 3
Gunship Apocalypse
Helldorado: Conspiracy
Hero's Journey
Hour of Victory
Huxley
H.A.V.E. Online
iFluid
Infernal
Inhabited island: Prisoner of Power
Joint Task Force
Kran Simulator 2009[23]
Kuma\War
Aura of Wisdom
Mafia 2
Magic Ball 3
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Metro 2033
Mirror's Edge
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire
Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia
Monster Truck Maniax
Myst Online: Uru Live
Need for Speed: Shift
Nights: Journey of Dreams
Nurien
Odd Blox
Open Fire (and its successor, Open Fire Gold)
Overlord 2
Parabellum
Paragraph 78
Pirates of the Burning Sea
Prince of Persia
Point Blank
PT Boats: Knights of the Sea
Rail Simulator
Red Steel
Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends
Risen
Robert Ludlum's The Bourne Conspiracy
Roboblitz
Sacred 2
Shadowgrounds (Only on the Linux version)
Shadowgrounds: Survivor
Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened
Showdown: Scorpion
Silverfall
Sovereign Symphony
Sonic and the Black Knight
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Speedball 2
Stoked
Stoked Rider: Alaska Alien
Switchball
Trine
The Hunt
The Stalin Subway
The Void
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Tortuga: Two Treasures
Turok
Two Worlds
Ultra Tubes
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal Tournament 3: Extreme Physics Mod
Valkyria Chronicles
Velvet Assassin
Warfare
Warmonger: Operation Downtown Destruction
W.E.L.L. Online
Winterheart's Guild
Wolverine Origins
WorldShift
Zombie Driver
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Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying PhsyX is a "must have feature". I'm just saying DX11 isn't here yet, and it's going to be a while before it is. And by the time it is, I think it'll be time to upgrade your graphics card anyways if you really want most of the DX11 features like tesselation.
 
If I had $200 it would be the card I would buy. If you want laughable, lets make fun of the Nvidia 465. I thought this would be my next card until I saw the price point.
 
I bought one because it has more than enough horsepower to run all the games I play so I don't need anything more powerful. Sure, after I bought it I realized I may not have chosen a card with the best price-to-performance ratio (would be the 5850), but the fact remains I saved around $80. The HD6000 series are on the horizon and I don't foresee myself needing more horsepower before they get here. By the time the HD6000 get here the 5870, 5850, and 5830 will all start to get really cheap anyways, so if I wanted a better card by then I could get a 5850 at a much lower price. So whichever way you look at it, I saved myself money and still got a card that performs to my needs.
 
Olle P said:
As I see it:
- Performance wise the 5830 is closer to 5770 than it is to 5850. (Most reviews suggest it's 25-30% faster than 5770, with 5850 being 100% faster than 5770.)
- Power consumption of 5830 is equal or greater than that of 5850, with 5770 using significantly less.
- Current pricing (in Sweden) is about half way between 5770 and 5850.

That makes both 5770 and 5850 better value for the money, so the only reason for buying one is if you have a real need to have more performance than the 5770 can provide, while at the same time being unable to afford a 5850.

For the 5830 to fit right in there it should be priced 25% above the 5770, not 50%.
Click to expand...

This whole better value for your money is getting out of hand. If you look at some of the reviews, the 5830 actually score more performance per dollar then the 5770. I believe the tweaktown reviews show this(or a site with a similar colour scheme, don't remember).

Yes you can spend less, but you are getting less performance. Yes you are getting good value for your money, but at the expense of performance.

If the 5830 came out with the 5750, instead of the 5770 and the 5770 came out at the time of the 5830, people would have laughed at it because it was only marginally better then the 5750 and in some cases was 40-50 more.

It's really strange how people seem to be unable to make their own decision and make a purchase. I have never once made a thread on any forum anywhere asking what I should buy. Even when I was just starting out building PCs, I was always able research and use common sense and my own brain to make a decision. Bizarre.

In games like Resident Evil 5(and similar games which are really easy to run) you looking at minimums much lower then most people would expect, considering how people recommend the 5770 and say it will run everything "maxed out". My experience was incredibly noticeable dips in frame rate with the 5770, and 60+ on the 5830.

Stuff like Call of Pripyat maxed at 1680x1050 with DX11, tessellation, 4xaa you`re looking at minimums on the 5830 that match the averages of the 5770. The difference was that drastic in some cases. Not exactly what you want to see from a card so many people recommend to people, and something you just bought, already having to turn setting down.

I don`t think that`s good value for you money. I don`t care what people buy, but it`s disturbing to see so many people buying something that really isn`t as good as the value for you money`` suggests.
 
TomGreen321 said:
This whole better value for your money is getting out of hand. If you look at some of the reviews, the 5830 actually score more performance per dollar then the 5770. I believe the tweaktown reviews show this(or a site with a similar colour scheme, don't remember).
Click to expand...

Your memory sucks.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5830_DirectCu/30.html

Performance / Dollar (all resolutions)

HD 5850 = %99
HD 5830 = %100
HD 5770 = %139

Performance / Watt

HD 5850 = %137
HD 5830 = %100
HD 5770 = %123

You get better performance/dollar and performance/watt from the 5770

You get outstanding performance/watt from the 5850

They're basically trying to sell the shittiest, leakiest pieces of silicon they can, so they can recoup a few bucks. They castrate the performance to 4890 levels by disabling 16 ROPS, and then they charge you halfway between 5770 and 5850 for it.

I don`t think that`s good value for you money. I don`t care what people buy, but it`s disturbing to see so many people buying something that really isn`t as good as the value for you money`` suggests.
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Eh, people buy what they will. I don't bitch about or dictate what other people buy unless they come to me and ask, or else it's just ignored. I only bitch on these forums because there are people who actually care about what products are released, and which one is the right purchase for a given circumstance.
 
The really depressing thing is that a year ago I could have bought cards with similar performance - of which yes the GTX 260 is one, but also 4890, even a 4870 isn't much slower - but for a fraction of the cost.

The next gen arrives and now I get less for my money then I did then.

The sort of people that spend $150 probably already have a 260/275/4870/4890 from the last time they spent $150. Looking at the current offerings $150 buys them less then they already have, other then:
-eye infinity: anyone who spends $$$ on 3 monitors to game is going to spend a lot more then $150 on graphics so pointless.
-DX11: all the DX11 games right now either look pretty well identical in DX10 or have a huge performance hit (e.g. AVP has both!). Lets be honest any games that really look better in DX11 are gonna take something faster then a 5830.

Both the 5830 and the GTX 465 really are failures.
 
vengence said:
Lets have a look at PhysX, here's the list of current games which support it (does not include upcoming games) and wiki claims it may be incomplete.


Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying PhsyX is a "must have feature". I'm just saying DX11 isn't here yet, and it's going to be a while before it is. And by the time it is, I think it'll be time to upgrade your graphics card anyways if you really want most of the DX11 features like tesselation.
Click to expand...

That list includes software only PhysX titles. Meaning *no* hardware acceleration of any kind even if you have the hardware. Here is a list of PhysX titles that support hardware acceleration:

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Crazy Machines II
Cryostasis
Dark Void
Darkest of Days
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 (GRAW2)
Metal Knight Zero Online (MKZ)
Mirror's Edge
Nurien
PT Boats: Knights of the Sea
Sacred 2
Star Tales
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal Tournament 3: Extreme Physics Mod
U-WARS
Warmonger: Operation Downtown Destruction
Click to expand...
 
I think its priced just right.

The 4890 is $200 on Newegg right now and so is the 5830. The 4890 is slightly faster but the 5830 uses less power and supports DX11. Seems about right to me.

The GTX260 is going for $179'ish and is slower and the 5850 is $290 and is much faster.

That all seems about right to me and the 5830 is right where it should be.
 
If I want a product between the 5770 and 5850, I want it between in all ways, including power consumption.

I find it ridiculous that they crippled it so much that they had to crank the clock speed high enough to end up using more power than the 5850.

I am sticking with my 8800GT and will wait and see what the next refresh brings later this year.
 
The 5830 would be a great card for 250$ if the 5850, and the 4890, and the 5770 were never made.

And the 4850 cuase you could Xfire those and be a S*hitload faster for 50$ less.
 
Gym Rat said:
I think its priced just right.

The 4890 is $200 on Newegg right now and so is the 5830. The 4890 is slightly faster but the 5830 uses less power and supports DX11. Seems about right to me.

The GTX260 is going for $179'ish and is slower and the 5850 is $290 and is much faster.

That all seems about right to me and the 5830 is right where it should be.
Click to expand...

5830 uses as muych power as 4890;.
 
vengence said:
Ok, so they're the same size. The point still stands.
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Yeah, but not very well. DX11 games are new, popular, and have more coming. The only recent, interesting PhysX game is Batman: Arkham Aslyum. Mirror's Edge is getting pretty old now.

DX11 is quickly becoming, if not already, more important than GPU PhysX if your goal is to play recent/new games.
 
Builderbobftw said:
5830 uses as muych power as 4890;.
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Power%20Draw.png


Power.png


power_consumption.jpg


21798.png


21799.png


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5830,2564-13.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/249-ati-radeon-hd-5830/page11.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1228/12/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2947/12

The Anandtech review shows that they use about the same amount in total system draw but the idle power is drastically better with the 5830. All the other reviews show the 5830 using a good bit less power than then 4890. Yeah, its not a ton less power but 30 watts over a 4 hour gaming session could add up on the old electric bill.
 
defaultluser said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5830_DirectCu/30.html

Performance / Dollar (all resolutions)

HD 5850 = %99
HD 5830 = %100
HD 5770 = %139

Performance / Watt

HD 5850 = %137
HD 5830 = %100
HD 5770 = %123

You get better performance/dollar and performance/watt from the 5770

You get outstanding performance/watt from the 5850
Click to expand...

Problem is that since that was written a little over 3 months ago the 5830 has dropped in price & the 5770 has not (atleast not as much).

& I have never seen anyone argue saying the 5830 is a better bang for buck card then a 5770. But its not a bad bang for buck like it used to be & as time goes on its onlt becoming a better value for the money.
 
bastage said:
Problem is that since that was written a little over 3 months ago the 5830 has dropped in price & the 5770 has not (atleast not as much).

& I have never seen anyone argue saying the 5830 is a better bang for buck card then a 5770. But its not a bad bang for buck like it used to be & as time goes on its onlt becoming a better value for the money.
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Next time you butt-in on my conversation with another poster, would you PLEASE be so kind as to read the quoted text I am responding to, instead of just blindly taking my post out of context?

I was replying to this:

Originally Posted by TomGreen321 View Post
This whole better value for your money is getting out of hand. If you look at some of the reviews, the 5830 actually score more performance per dollar then the 5770. I believe the tweaktown reviews show this(or a site with a similar colour scheme, don't remember).
Click to expand...

I do believe that the above is an example of someone claiming the 5830 is a better bang for your buck than the 5770. Given that, you HAVE seen someone "argue saying the 5830 is a better bang for buck card then a 5770," unless you never read the quoted text.

NEXT TIME READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE YOU REPLY, PLEASE.
 
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Defaultuser.

IMO you should be banned for screaming with that post....
 
Snowdog said:
Defaultuser.

IMO you should be banned for screaming with that post....
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I don't scream in threads, usually(go ahead, search for my posts, I doubt you'll find any other examples). I was only doing that because I received a reply that missed the point of my original post completely. He didn't even read the quoted text I was replying to, he just replied on autopilot.

I don't usually feel I need to shout to drive a point home, but in this case...he already missed the context when I used the regular-sized font.

EDIT: I toned down the size, but I'm not taking them out entirely.
 
Last edited:
defaultluser said:
Next time you butt-in on my conversation with another poster, would you PLEASE be so kind as to read the quoted text I am responding to, instead of just blindly taking my post out of context?

I was replying to this:



I do believe that the above is an example of someone claiming the 5830 is a better bang for your buck than the 5770. Given that, you HAVE seen someone "argue saying the 5830 is a better bang for buck card then a 5770," unless you never read the quoted text.

NEXT TIME READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE YOU REPLY, PLEASE.
Click to expand...

wow.. someone musta shoved a big one up your but to get you all worked up.. & note.. I am the OP so replying in this thread is not butting in to anyone as this is a conversation started by myself..

Next off common courtesy would dictate that since I didn't yell at you the same should be done in return..

Also that quoted test that you highlites a portion of.. You missed a very important word. it was "some".. ie not all..

Next time read the whole thread before you reply.
 
Vengence, I have no idea how PhysX come into play here.
The primary issue at hand is whether 5830 is a "black sheep" in the ATI "flock" or not. None of the Radeons support PhysX or Cuda, so it's a non issue!
(If PhysX is a major requirement for you, go with nVidia!)

While I consider the 5830 to be "less than ideal", by technical specs and price, I think the 5670 seems like a non-starter. Too powerful (and accordingly expensive) for just about anything but gaming. At the same time it's too weak for gaming and the 5750 is only marginally higher priced.
 
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