Oddworld Creator Calls out Nintendo's Third-Party Support: Switch Has “No Hope”

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Oddworld creator Lorne Lanning and his team, Oddworld Inhabitants, is no fan of Nintendo’s latest console: he has "no faith," in the Switch, due to "experience," and having seen how the Wii and Wii U played out. He claims that both consoles weren't successful for third parties, and Nintendo ended up making all the money at the end of their runs.

    ...he doesn't think people are going to go through the effort to work on an "under-powered console" (a sentiment THQ Nordic shares), and that in conjunction with their alleged efforts to ignore third parties to better themselves, it'll end up hurting studios. It's something a lot of developers are struggling with right now - whether or not to call out Nintendo after the Wii U situation. The Switch is doing great so you don't want to burn that bridge, but some studios have claimed that even after they've tried to make games for it, Nintendo hasn't reciprocated.
     
  2. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    the only reason nintendo exists is because people have a hard on for miyamoto games.
     
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  3. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg [H]ard|Gawd

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    Does anyone buy a Nintendo console for third party support these days? I know I didn't. Their first party games are really that good to sell consoles.
     
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  4. Alia Nexis

    Alia Nexis [H]Lite

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    I've only bought a Wii, WiiU and Switch for Nintendo games. At least with the Wii there were a lot of exclusive, 3rd party games.
     
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  5. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is a trick question as they have no 3rd party so the answer has to be no.

    The real question is how long is Nintendo going to be able to carry on with only first party titles. Towards the end people started to regret buying a Wii. Nobody purchased the Wii U as they didn't see it as that much of a step up from the Wii. They now got tricked into buying the Switch with the promise that things will be better. If they once again get let down, how many times will they keep coming back? Quality of their games are starting to drop, at some point people will stop caring.

    IF they had 3rd party support they could be even better. IF they sold a system that could go toe to toe with Microsoft or Sony people would only buy a Nintendo system and wouldn't bother with the other two.
     
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  6. Shmee

    Shmee [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think it will be different for The Switch though. Since it is actually the successor to the 3DS, not the Wii or Wii U, and Nintendo has sold a lot of third party games for their handhelds.
     
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  7. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    No one has bought Nintendo system for 3rd party games since the SNES.
     
  8. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    N64 had plenty of 3rd party and I absolutely bought it for those. Infact most of what I played on it were 3rd party and having owned most of N64's library, most were 3rd party. So I'd say N64, can't speak after that, didn't buy Nintendo period, controllers too wonky, among many other reasons.
     
  9. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal 2[H]4U

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    People need to stop milking off about it being a console and continue to focus on it being a portable system. Every kid my son knows wants one, including him, and they will all have one next christmas. Right now Nintendo will throw marketing money at any Switch game from any developer just to continue convincing people they have more than first party titles. As adoption for the switch increases in the next year, developers for the 3ds will start to make switch games as well. It may not be as lucrative as making a ps4/pc/xbox cross platform game, but if you make cutesy story driven exploration games, it's still a MASSIVE market.
     
  10. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    But you are backwards there. This is NOT the successor to the 3DS it IS the successor to the Wii U.


    It comes down to profit, how much do you have to waste trying to develop for a system and how much can you make from it once you make the game. As for it being a portable system. That is Nintendo that you need to blame there. They have told people over and over that this is NOT a replacement for the portable console line but is the next system in the home console line that just happens to have a portable aspect. The system runs in a way that not all games can be played in portable mode.
     
  11. Nytegard

    Nytegard 2[H]4U

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    Nintendo still suffers from the problem of thinking it's 1985, and they're myopic to companies other than them (and particularly when it comes to anything outside of Japan).
     
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  12. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    There were some but not many big title games like there was on th PS1. I had like 4 games for the n64 and they were all Nintendo games. Nothing else interested me.
     
  13. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    What must nintendo do? Pay millions for exclusives, is that it? Wii and wii i supposedly were made specifically so they are easy to write software for it.. was this a lie?.. no, its clear... its about them wanting nintendo to take the ri$k, pay for exclusives and such. Everything else is bullshit.
     
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  14. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal 2[H]4U

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    I wouldn't buy an oddworld game anyway. There's too many good first party games that my son has already been indoctrinated to buy.
     
  15. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes, Nintendo lies. They claimed that the Switch's SDK was designed to make it simple to port games from other system so the Switch and yet their only real supporter Ubisoft is having trouble trying to port a game, has Nintendo helping them now, and still might not be able to get the game ported because it is no where as simple as Nintendo tried to claim. There ware actually articles for Wii U (and I believe the Wii also) that talked about how hard it was to develop for. This is common, Sony did the same thing for the PS3. Claimed it was the easiest SDK to code for and all dev teams came back calling bullshit on them. Of course a console maker wants you to think that they have the easiest console to code for. Nobody wants to come right out and tell you they developed a steaming pile of shit of you to play with.


    Where are these games that you speak of? There are 4 games right now. 1-2-3 Switch, Mario Kart, Legend of Zelda, Arms... that is it.
     
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  16. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    I mean that's you, certainly not me. I had like 177 N64 games at the very minimum lol.
     
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  17. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, I don't know but I would bet the ' hard' part about the wii or wii u was about the different controls. Same thing may apply to the switch to an extent I don't know... However i doubt the switch is much harder to develop for than Nvidia shield as supposedly its the same hardware.
    Nintendo could not survive with a me too console. Why would anyone buy something they can buy twice already in the xbone and ps4. So some would say, just release your games everywhere, everyone would buy it! .. would they?... I take is Sega is a behemoth multiples bigger than nintendo?.. plus the game play experience is also controlled by the hardware...
    Lazy ass developers , that is all this is about
    .. they want to make the same shit, and make a ton of money or they want to eliminate risk by getting exclusives or some shit. That is all.. its not the hardware, its not Nintendo.
    Plus also, why the fuck would anyone say Nintendo needs to stop making consoles.. they been going at it longer than anyone, doing only that... AND trying not to stagnate in offering a modified or different gaming experience... Yes some failed to launch, but the weathered a lot just fine, its what they do, not this quarter to quarter bullshit everyone worries so much ( although on top if it they been fine financially, just not over the top incredible, which apparently that is another 'disaster' somehow)
     
  18. Mozgus

    Mozgus n00b

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    Nintendo is still living in the fucking 80's. They don't give third parties any reason to develop for their shit. They still think they are king of the castle. It's really bizarre. They need to step the fuck out of the way, charge absolutely no cut of any profits on any third party titles, and in fact invest in some of the key companies. But it's already too late for Switch. They needed a launch lineup and they launched with Zelda and fucking nothing else. It's a god damn joke at this point. As a huge lifelong Nintendo fan, it's very upsetting to see them so detached from reality.
     
  19. sirgallium

    sirgallium Limp Gawd

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    The PS1 and PS2 were both made with 3rd party support and being easy to develop for in mind. And they were two of the most successful consoles of all time because of their absolutely massive libraries.

    They make really good first party titles and that's about all they have going for them these days. They are almost becoming a company that relies on gimicks for sales, such as novel system designs. It worked for the Wii but I think they got lucky there and they haven't been able to reproduce the same effect in their consoles since.

    Treating 3rd party devs badly and pretending the internet doesn't exists isn't helping them either.

    Oh you bought a new Wii and want to transfer your virtual store games from your old Wii to the new one? Just mail us both systems and we'll do it for you. Internet? What's that? Game ownership based on user accounts you can login to? What does that even mean? You're fired. If snail mail is good eough for us, it should be good enough for everyone.
     
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  20. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    I agree, but I don't think Nintendo will change their ways anytime soon. Their last system with an enormous library was what, the SNES? Switch with it's portability would be an incredible system to open up for third party developers, it would make me start to even consider buying one.
     
  21. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    I disagree.. says who the console is closed to 3rd party? Yeah yeah if you release a game way way later after you have released it absolutely everywhere.. do you expect more and more sales?.. I mean yeah it will be another failure that way, Nintendo is not going to give you that much more exclusive market penetration ( even with huge sales as I doubt there are that many Nintendo only houses).. so yeah this happens when you are a lazy ass, and don't want to do shit properly, take proper advantages of the hardware. In the wii the last metroid was a much more fun game than half Life on the ps3 with a game pad... But the Wii controls worked very well. Nothing prevents 3rd party studios frm persuing a quality game as well as Nintendo does on their console... Nothing but lazyness and the quickest buck mentality.
     
  22. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The article I found when trying to look this up to refresh my memory was in regards to the Wii U and not the Wii but in the case of the Wii U it talked about how the SDK was not flushed out every well, had horrible documentation, the linker took 4 - 6 minutes vs 1 minute for all other consoles to compile anything you changed, the debugger was the worst they had seen for any console and was terrible to work with, trying to ask Nintendo questions took weeks to get replies and even then the replies didn't really answer their questions. And this was for one of the larger 3rd parties trying to make a game for the system not a small indy dev.

    As for a me too system. See the issue with your comment (and the rest that try to argue that) is that if they sold a me too system people wouldn't need the Xbox or PlayStation so they wouldn't be buying the game twice. Personally I own an Xbox One, before that I owned a Xbox 360. I haven't owned a PlayStation since the PS2. The only reason I bought a Xbox 360 was that I couldn't buy games for the Wii otherwise I would have only had the Wii that generation. But after 1.5 years of not being able to play any games that came out I decided fuck it guess I have to buy something else. As soon as I did that never really touched the Wii again as I had no need to since I was buying all my games on the Xbox 360 at that point. I didn't buy the original Xbox as I had no need for one as I had the PS2 at that point. Which again I didn't buy till towards the end of the generation as I had a Gamecube that allowed me to play most games for years until I seen FF7 and then decided that I wanted to play the game so bought a PS2 for that. Right now Nintendo is charging you more for a system than either Sony or Microsoft but giving you less in the way of hardware, and less in the way of game options. Which actually ties into your other comment. If people are willing to buy a system that cost that much JUST to play 6 - 12 games I doubt they would not play them if released on other systems.

    As for gameplay experience being tied to the hardware... they create a gimmick then play to that. Don't know I would say that gameplay is really tied to the hardware. The fact that Breath of the Wild was able to run on both the switch and Wii U which are vastly different shows that. When it comes to Sega, they never had as big of a 1st party bases, they also keep fucking up the one character they have by making more and more shit that nobody wants. All that said they don't need to get out of the console game per say, they just need to get closer to the level of everyone else if they want to keep in the game. Or they need to go to all portable only and just forget about home consoles. You can only weather so many storms before your ship breaks. Their profits were sliding there for awhile while making a recovery this past year. A large part of that was due to Pokémon, part of which wasn't even on their system but was Pokémon go. 3rd party games make a console money and help it stay afloat also. One could even say more than 1st party as you can only sell so many first party, The desire for them to make a better console or have 3rd party is not to make them into a me too system, but is to ensure that they stay around to make the games that people want to play. Something that being a 1st party only console isn't going to afford them forever.
     
  23. Balkroth

    Balkroth Limp Gawd

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    Clearly they just need to release a new Rogue Squadron
     
  24. Shmee

    Shmee [H]ard|Gawd

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    Technically yes it is the successor to the Wii, but everyone I know uses it as a handheld, so practically it has been the successor to the 3DS.
     
  25. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    Unreal Engine 4 supports the Switch, so there's really no excuse for dev's not to make games unless they just cant make the kind of games they want. If your goal is to make the next 1st person shooter / GTA franchise then the switch is too underpowered for your demands. People seem to act like Nintendo is deliberately trying to fuck over 3rd parties or something when the reality is they just dont care. Nintendo makes consoles for Nintendo games. They have a vision for how best to enjoy Mario/Zelda and then they build a console around that. If someone wants to go 3rd party and develop for them too then thats fine, but Nintendo doesnt really seem to court developers.

    Sony/MS have no 1st party developers. Any game that would be considered 1st party is merely the result of buying out what was once a 3rd party. They dont make games, they buy companies who make games. As a result they need a generic ubiquitous console that anyone can develop for with a similar experience in mind. Nintendo however actually makes their own games so it is only natural they would cater to their own design philosophies first. What advantage does nintendo have? They still make really good games and they're able to get away with it using cheaper hardware, thats how they stay in business.
     
  26. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nintendo consoles I've owned and the approx number of games I've owned on them.

    NES -100+
    Super Nintendo - 100+
    Nintendo 64 - 50-80
    GameCube - 25
    Wii - 10
    WiiU - didn't buy, unlikely to ever buy.
    Switch - not purchased, but I do want one. However due to the terrible decisions (VoIP requires a phone app) among others and the fact that there is only one game I want, I'll likely wait a while. Actually since they made a great game but the art style looks shitty. I'll probably wait until I find a switch with a broken LCD on Craigslist for super cheap since I'll never use the portable feature. So one game I want to play, but not badly enough to pay full price.

    This is a worrying trend for me. I love Nintendo games but hardware and software decisions from them the past few generations are getting worse.
     
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  27. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal 2[H]4U

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    Well, Since It will be an Xmas present, I will probably have to get Mario Kart (even though we literally play the same game minus a few tracks on my Cemu Emulator in higher 4k fidelity right now,) Zelda, Splatoon 2, Mario Odysee, and I'll be buying Xenoblade 2 for myself which you may as well call a present for him. That should set me back a crisp $7-800 with the system, games, and extra peripherals. Since He has exactly one birthday and one Christmas a year I don't see myself buying more than 4-6 titles a year unless there is an act of god and the system becomes a jrpg mecca.

    Not sure how many games you think someone needs in a year but I can assure you he doesn't have time to play much more than that.

    I bought a 2nd Wii just to play Xenoblade 1 even though my parents already had a wii that was essentially unused unless my son was interested in some wii sports and I never bought another game for myself in its lifespan. I was more than satisfied with the purchase and would have bought a Wii U recently for Xenoblade Chronicles X, but It now runs extremely well through completion on Cemu so I will be skipping that generation of console.

    It's hard to quantify a price for something you love and hold close to your heart. While I wouldn't say i was ever emotionally attached to Zelda, I will say I was a changed human after playing Xenogears in my youth, hence my forum avatar name. I would have bought a Switch just to play Xenoblade 2 on it and wouldn't even care what the cost was.

    Many nintendo fans are the same. I'm sorry if 3rd party devs don't feel like it's the right platform for their ip, but it's not skin off my ass.
     
  28. sleepeeg3

    sleepeeg3 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would say most non-fanboys in the US would agree that Nintendo could make a killing on a new console if it...
    *Matched the hardware of it's competitors
    *Had an online platform similar to Xbox-live
    *Made its previous-generation games available for free or for small fees
    *Made gimmicky control systems secondary to a generic control system

    You do all that and third party support would already be there and Nintendo would rule the console market. Instead, Nintendo insists on marginalizing themselves.
     
  29. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Based on your comment it sounded like you had a switch already and where trying to say that you were already buried in games at launch here that you needed to buy him. Sure if you are waiting a year or two into the launch there will be more games to purchase. My statement was that TODAY, which is what I thought we were referring to, you don't have a huge lineup of first party games.

    As for how many games a person needs a year. Well... technically none. Anything beyond that depends on many different factors. Some games are going to be party games that you would only get use from when you have other people there so games like that basically give you zero gaming time. Then you have the games that might keep you interested for a few weeks then you get tired off and stop playing. Other games could take 40+ hours of play time to beat so depending on how many hours you dedicate to gaming you either finish and spend months of your time, or you stop playing after little time.

    Personally Breathe of the Wild kept me interested long enough to beat the game with only getting about 70% of the hearts. At that point I started getting very tired of the mini dungeons and just beat the game to be able to stop playing it. Gave the game to my nephews then. Think it interested them for about a week or two then they stopped playing it. Don't think they even got to a single guardian yet. And yet they play every other Zelda game to completion getting everything. So you can have games like that which after you start playing them may or may not be worth your time and could be a one week game or many others.

    So for some people, depending on the games and their amount of time they have to play games, 4 - 6 games could be a few months of time or it could be 1 month.
     
  30. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal 2[H]4U

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    Yeah man, I see where you're coming from. 2 brothers my sons age 3 houses up the street got switch on launch and once they burned out on zelda, they come over to my house to play the original wii sports with my son. Apparently there isn't much in the way of multiplayer crack yet on switch.

    I know they wanted to use Zelda to launch the switch, but really the console should have come out next Xmas, possibly with an upgrades SoC to actually take advantage of current technology a little better. Nvid literally sold them a part off the shelf which really seems like Nintendo got the short end of the straw in the console wars.