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Odd problem with Modem and Water Heater

Phelptwan

Phelptwan

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
6,915
First of all i'm not really sure this should go here but if it needs to be moved Mods please do.

For the last 6 years or so my family has had a problem with our water heater and our modem. I'll describe it in detail. When our water heater turns on (electric water heater) it disrupts the internet connection. Here is how it goes: connect to the internet and then if the hot water turns on the modem will disconect. Originally we thought it was the junk modems we were using so we switched to some expensive USR's...the didn't help. I posted about this a few years ago and somebody said that it had something to do with the phone line being grounded through the water pipes...that was the truth but now the system is grounded seperately. So what is causing my internet problem? Keep in mind: Electric Water Heater (not sure what model but i can get it if anybody wants), Phone system totaly seperate, good hardware modems.

Any help is appreciated.
 
GlobalFear said:
Line surge created by heating element? Interference?
Click to expand...
I don't know that's why I'm asking. Really I'm just hoping for any ideas anyone might have to fix it.
 
If it is surge or the heater drawing too much power, perhaps going through a battery backup might help? My screen does a flicker thing then the bathroom exhaust is running, and I use a backup, so that might not be any good. But it's an idea I guess.

Here's another idea. The positioning of your modem is bad feng shui, and you're seeing some sort of negative reaction. Heh, actually this one might more sense than my first idea.
 
Go with cable or dsl, that would solve the problem. How close is it to the water heater?
 
If he's having a problem using modems, then DSL probalby wouldn't be any better since it uses the same line.
 
where are you lines running in comparision to the water heater? You could be getting interferience form it because the line is to close. Also, when you say it was grounded, did you mean the phone line or the entire household panel. Inspectors make you ground to a outside ground and to the pipes as well (even c-pvc pipes lol)

i think your best bet would be finding exactly where your phone lines run and if they are to close move them.

about the user who suggested placement of the modem, this could be, i moved my computer across my room, and a bose wave radio at the other end of the house no longer picks up am stations
 
Well what I meant by grounded is that the phone line is grounded seperately (different...also longer) rod than the rest of the house. The modem proximity isn't it since the computer is as far away from the heater as possible in the house. DSL and cable aren't an option due to the distance from civilization. The phone line runs in quite closely to the heater though.
 
Phelptwan said:
The phone line runs in quite closely to the heater though.
Click to expand...


i think thats your problem, try re-routing the line and see if you get problems still
 
When you are on the phone talking to someone, what do you hear when the water heater turns on?
 
im no telco expert, but dont think phone lines are supposed to be grounded....are they? they might be shielded, and the shielding is grounded....
 
Is it possible that there was a shotr somewhere in the water heater electric line, causing it to warm up enough to fuse with the phone line?

I also have seen when companies come in and home renovation and accidentally drill through a wire by accident.

Good Luck!
 
SHouldn't anything with an electric current be ground? Ortherwise you risk shock, right?
 
DaRkF0g said:
Is it possible that there was a shotr somewhere in the water heater electric line, causing it to warm up enough to fuse with the phone line?

I also have seen when companies come in and home renovation and accidentally drill through a wire by accident.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

see the thing with that is
1) low voltage should never be run close enough to high voltage to "fuse" together
2) if it was drilled, nailed, or fuse, and the line was live you would end up with a fire.

i think the only way phone lines are grounded is if they go through a surge supresser, other than that, if you phone company still uses copper to the door then you will need a gound due to voltage jump from one building to the other
 
My guess would be somehow you're getting a sudden jump in line noise in the phone wires due to the current draw to the water heater. Do you ever hear anything when you're on the phone and it kicks in? I'd listen for that... see if you hear any sudden line noise when the water heater kicks on and you're on the phone. If not, rule that one out, if so, check where the phones lines run in relation to your electrical wires.

Just my guess, i'm not an expert on the subject.
 
yes, there are grounding requirements for TELCO lines too. Add to that, actual phone signal uses only two wires (usually red and green for primary, yellow and black for secondary) and the unused wires are commonly tied to ground to help prevent interference, provide shielding of a sort.
More than likely, you have an intermittent short to a water pipe. the vibration when water flows may be making an intermittent ground (HANGS UP).
Try using a different phone jack, or, to completely eliminate house wiring, get a long extension phone line and run straight into the plastic box outside the house, where the telephone comes into the house. If that fixes it, you know its the jack you are using.
oh, this assumes USA, if canadian, that may be another game altogether?
 
Well, get your modem out of the water heater. DUH! :p

Seriously, though, that could cause problems right there.

Are you experiencing the same problems when the air conditioner turns on? It could be that you're on the same breaker, and the water heater is drawing mucho amps to turn on. It would make absolutely no sense to ground phone lines through water pipes, since most water pipes are PVC, unless your house is hella old. If you've already addressed these solutions in earlier posts, please forgive my illeteracy and throw things at me.
 
they still use copper a ton, its better than pvc, it doesn't shatter if you drop something on it
 
Well, all I know is what's under my house, so I took a guess. :p

What you are saying has a point, though. PVC tends to get brittle in cold, too. And, you can't take a blowtorch to it to thaw your pipes.
 
Well here is another monkey wrench in the works. Me an my dad took the laptop out to the box outside the house (by the way it is damn cold in Michigan right now) and plugged it into the box. We connected and then had somebody in the house turn on the hot water and wadda ya know it disconected. I'm totally at a lose. Is it possible that the heater emits some frequency that disrupts the signal (what my dad thinks)? Oh by the way we do have copper pips and the house is 32 years old with about 18 year old wiring (including phones). The heater isn't even near the circuit for any of the computers.
 
Welcome to "This Old House!"

Those are the quirks that go with having old wiring and piping.

Sorry to say, but you're probably out of luck unless you want to rewire lots of stuff. (READ: $$$$$)
 
yeah, I reckon you're going to have to redo some plumbing and electrical in your house to get it to quit messing with the phones....OR you could always get rid of the Electric Water heater and go see Hank Hill at Strickland Propane and get you an LPG Water Heater. :p Though I reckon you'll probably just live with it as is.

/me is glad he has a Nat gas Water heater.
 
When our hot water system comes on, we always notice a drop in power (lights dim, etc) and interference in the TV signal. What is probably happening is that this combination of drop in power and EMI is affecting the phone line line (as I think has been established above), and this change in signal is giving the modem a nervous breakdown, causing it to drop out. Modems are pretty sensitive devices, any stray signal that they don't expect usually causes them to drop out, I guess thats what happening here. As mentioned above, probably re-wiring of the house to move the phone line away from the water heater would be the best option.
 
Thanks for all your help. There will be no rewiring since my dad is old and I no longer live there and don't want nor have time to do the work, so I think they will just have to deal with it until BPL comes out. Again thanks for the advice.
 
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