Oculus Rift DK2 on order, Now I need good sound

[nintari]

I just recently place an order for a Oculus rift DK2 and need to get started on good sound to go along with it.

I figure I will have to use headphones to have the audio follow me as I am turning my head and more so seal me in to the environment I am in.

Right now I am using a 5.1 sound system on my main gaming rig via HDMI to my denon receiver, and figure that wont really follow suit very well when I am turning my head.

I have three options available for sound to headphones

on board of MSI MPower Z77
on keyboard on Logitech G110
Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium

I obviously want to keep with the surround, but I hear arguments that with good stereo headphones you do not need surround headphones. But then you hear that almost all "surround" headphones are really just stereo headphones running through software to simulate surround.

So first are there any definitive guides out there for optimal headphone setup and quality for gaming?

I currently have a set of Sennheiser HD515 headphones, would these be adequate to use or should I look in to something better? While they sound ok I am not sure if the open ear design will be good enough, plus if there is something better for under $150 I may consider it.

Any help or links would be much appreciated as headphones are not something I am too accustom to when it comes to proper setup and quality now... home theater speakers and the like... yeah I'm good to go lol

 

[acerbic]

There are surround headphones that have multiple speakers in them. However they are expensive and the individual drivers aren't nearly ass good as those in stereo headphones. Thus running surround through your soundcard or using dolby headphone with a good pair of stereo headphones is often better than running surround headphones with multiple drivers.

It's also why you generally see multiple driver surround headphones from gaming centric companies like Razer, while top end audio companies like Sennhieser refuse to bother with it and call it a gimmick.

What you have is probably fine, run it off the soundcard. Getting something better is going to require spending well over 150.

 

[cageymaru]

These Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro-250 are $129 @Amazon. I'm not so sure how nice they are. Hopefully some of the gurus here can set you on the right path to the proper equipment.

 

[mannyman]

These Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro-250 are $129 @Amazon. I'm not so sure how nice they are. Hopefully some of the gurus here can set you on the right path to the proper equipment.

Wow thats a great deal. I think i may bite. OP these are fine headphones but you will need amplification to run them.

 

[43st]

The DT880 and DT990 are pretty neutral sounding headphones with a distinct lack of any spatialization (drivers are not angled, etc.). They are decent headphones, but I would not recommend them for someone wanting a 3d sound stage.

Edit: Just did a little more reading on the subject. Some people like the sound stage of DT990 with regard to gaming, so it might be worth a try for you. Can't really go wrong considering the price.

 

[nintari]

what about settings whist in game? Been seeing blurbs about dolby digital 5.1 live or some such software processing that turns your headphones in to a virtaul 5.1 sounding setup. Or is straight stereo enough if sound is done proper to get the feel of it being surround?

I know some music I can listen to on my home theater setup downstairs and it sounds phenomenal and almost has the feeling there is a center channel speaker playing the vocals (when there isn't). I mean technically I only hear things in stereo but the position of that sound behind me my brain knows to process that as it is behind me... I guess leaning toward is stereo straight to headphones going to give that same effect or is that extra processing needed (Dolby Digital live or whatever it is) to get that "surround" feel?

 

[nintari]

oh and how do those Beyerdynamic DT-990 headphones compare to the Sennheiser HD515s I have? Both appear to be open ear design (if anyone has any experience with them)

 

[Unknown-One]

There are surround headphones that have multiple speakers in them. However they are expensive and the individual drivers aren't nearly ass good as those in stereo headphones. Thus running surround through your soundcard or using dolby headphone with a good pair of stereo headphones is often better than running surround headphones with multiple drivers.

I second this.

Get a nice pair of normal stereo headphones, and run them using a sound card that supports Dolby Headphone. Better experience than any "surround headphones" I've ever tried.

 

[spaceman]

I second this.

Get a nice pair of normal stereo headphones, and run them using a sound card that supports Dolby Headphone.

Only use dolby headphone for movies or music encoded for dolby. Games don't really benefit at all.

Best budget gaming headphones around $150 are the Sennheiser 558. That or get a Creative Zx sound card for your 515s. Either way is a step up. Just use straight stereo.

 

[atarione]

since you have the HD515s already... I suggest waiting and trying them out first, if you are unsatisfied then consider changing headphones.


those are pretty nice (if older now) cans so it would be worth (imho) to give them a shot first before throwing money around.


I own what I think are some of the best value gaming (and music) headphones out there right now because pioneer's marketing sucks .. but the Pioneer SE-A1000 ($52~ on amazon right now). I picked mine up as impulse buy (after reading a bit about them on another forum) on closeout (NIB) $35 at bb. These headphones have a excellent sound stage and sound quality and for me are quite comfortable.


http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SE-A1...d=1395424988&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+se-a1000


but i do also own the beyerdymanic DT770's which are very comfortable so the DT990s should be also and I would like a pair of those as well..

but probably if i was you i'd give the HD515 a go first.

 

[Unknown-One]

Only use dolby headphone for movies or music encoded for dolby. Games don't really benefit at all.

Uh... what?

I've been using it with games on an Asus Xonar DX. Control panel configured as follows:
Input channels = 8
Output channels = headphones
Dolby headphone = enabled

Games detect that I have a 7.1 speaker setup connected, games output 7.1 audio, Dolby headphone sucks that up (just like the 7.1 track on a BluRay) and produces positional audio.

I'm having trouble figuring out why you would suggest that it would work fine with one 7.1 source, but not another... that's one of the biggest selling points of Dolby Headphone (and CMSS3D), it works with any 5.1 or 7.1 source material.

 

[nintari]

Uh... what?

I've been using it with games on an Asus Xonar DX. Control panel configured as follows:
Input channels = 8
Output channels = headphones
Dolby headphone = enabled

Games detect that I have a 7.1 speaker setup connected, games output 7.1 audio, Dolby headphone sucks that up (just like the 7.1 track on a BluRay) and produces positional audio.

I'm having trouble figuring out why you would suggest that it would work fine with one 7.1 source, but not another... that's one of the biggest selling points of Dolby Headphone (and CMSS3D), it works with any 5.1 or 7.1 source material.

good to know

I have been reading quite a bit this afternoon, I know I dont get the rift till july but I can play around until then.

Thats another aspect I will deal with later, viewing 3D Blu-ray and MKV on the rift. There are several media players and even a virtual theater out for it now

I keep reading some like Dolby headphone better, some like THX studio better, some like CMSS3D better... guess I have a lot of playing around to do with my X-Fi and headphones this weekend to see what works best.

 

[spaceman]

For gaming, any effects tend to screw up the games audio engine. You might find that you like the sound but I can assure you for modern games like BF4 where directional sound accuracy is crucial, no external effects should be used.

Unless you have speakers, straight stereo headphones with decent amplification are the best solution for pc gaming.

So in your case, I would suggest getting an external amp for your X-FI and also consider upgrading the headphones to something like the 558 or if you want to really expand the sound stage, AKG 701 or 702.

 

[Unknown-One]

For gaming, any effects tend to screw up the games audio engine. You might find that you like the sound but I can assure you for modern games like BF4 where directional sound accuracy is crucial, no external effects should be used.

I havn't had any trouble using Dolby Headphone in BF4, honestly.

There's a noticeable improvement in spacial awareness going from the game's built-in stereo headphone support to using the games' 7.1 support + Dolby headphone.

The absolute BEST game I've used it with, by far, is Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Totally immersive surround experience with Dolby Headphone turned on. More than once I would hear a growl or a groan behind me, and I'd physically turn my head because I thought it was someone in the room with me, trying to screw with me.

 

[Venomous]

The DT880 and DT990 are pretty neutral sounding headphones with a distinct lack of any spatialization (drivers are not angled, etc.). They are decent headphones, but I would not recommend them for someone wanting a 3d sound stage.

Edit: Just did a little more reading on the subject. Some people like the sound stage of DT990 with regard to gaming, so it might be worth a try for you. Can't really go wrong considering the price.

Clearly you don't own or ever heard of set of 880s huh? 880s are fully open headphones, not semi closed. It's probably the most popular headphones used by recording engineers worldwide to boot. They sound better than sennsheiser hd800s that's for damn sure and the 990s are tweaked with deeper bass and more treble.

These are headphones that can do multiple jobs such as critical listening, audiophile listening and gaming. I've had $1500 headphones that can't touch these things. I'd recommend 250ohm if you don't have a proper soundcard with a good amp. If you already have an amp, 600ohm would be the ones I'd would grab.

They will do fine In spatial environments just like they kickass in gaming.

 

[Sycraft]

So if you want headphones that REALLY synergize with the Rift, you need ones that do head tracking. Sadly, that blows your budget... badly. However it is the only way to truly get surround sound. Much like your visual image shifts when you move your head, so does your sonic image. So the head tracking is part of what gives the Rift its realism in vision, you need he same tracking for equal realism in audio.

The cheapest option is the HeaDSPeaker. It is a $450ish unit that works headphones you provide and handles the head tracking. Also functions as a 5.1/7.1 USB soundcard so that is all handled. Supposedly it is pretty damn good.

Beyerdynamic has an all-in-one solution that gets a pair of DT880s, a headphone amp, and head tracking, the Headzone. However it is seriously overpriced at $1700 and supposedly the HeaDSPeaker is better, when paired with good headphones.

However expensive as that is, it can't touch the grand champion, the SVS Realiser A8. This thing actually recreates your room (or any room) precisely. It is so accurate, you can take the headphones off (it detects that and switches on speakers) and not tell the difference. It actually measures your headphones, the room, you ears, etc using little in ear mics. Positively stunning and has to be heard to believed. The awesomeness is eclipsed only by the outrageous price: $2900 for the unit itself, $3700 to get it paired with the recommended Stax SRS-2170 phones. Oh and it needs a good system/room to sample, so maybe $5000-10000 to get yourself a nice surround setup, or at least a couple hundred dollars to rent out studio time and sample their system.

Now, I'm not suggesting you run out and buy one of these, as I'm well aware they badly blow the budget, just want to put it on your radar. The HeaDSPeaker is expensive, but not out of this world expensive. It might be the kind of thing to consider in the long run. Paired with good phones like the DT880s or the like it should give a stupidly immersive experience along with a Rift. Static HRTF things like Dolby Headphone and CMMS3D will help, but they always fall short because things sound "wrong" since when you move your head, the sonic image moves with you. You have to get head tracking in there to really get it convincing.

Of course, an actual surround speaker setup is another option, but not necessarily any cheaper. It takes quite a bit of money to get speakers that can equal the detail of good headphones, and then there's the fact that everyone else has to listen to your speakers.

 

[43st]

Clearly you don't own or ever heard of set of 880s huh? 880s are fully open headphones, not semi closed. It's probably the most popular headphones used by recording engineers worldwide to boot. They sound better than sennsheiser hd800s that's for damn sure and the 990s are tweaked with deeper bass and more treble.

These are headphones that can do multiple jobs such as critical listening, audiophile listening and gaming. I've had $1500 headphones that can't touch these things. I'd recommend 250ohm if you don't have a proper soundcard with a good amp. If you already have an amp, 600ohm would be the ones I'd would grab.

They will do fine In spatial environments just like they kickass in gaming.

My wife has a set of 990's at her computer.. I totally agree they are decent headphones. They are very technical sounding to me however. If someone was to use them for gaming they would need to use Dolby Headphone or a spatializer of some sort. (It may come down to whether one prefers technically accurate sound, or a more immerse sounding environment.)

 

[nintari]

So if you want headphones that REALLY synergize with the Rift, you need ones that do head tracking. Sadly, that blows your budget... badly. However it is the only way to truly get surround sound. Much like your visual image shifts when you move your head, so does your sonic image. So the head tracking is part of what gives the Rift its realism in vision, you need he same tracking for equal realism in audio.

The cheapest option is the HeaDSPeaker. It is a $450ish unit that works headphones you provide and handles the head tracking. Also functions as a 5.1/7.1 USB soundcard so that is all handled. Supposedly it is pretty damn good.

Beyerdynamic has an all-in-one solution that gets a pair of DT880s, a headphone amp, and head tracking, the Headzone. However it is seriously overpriced at $1700 and supposedly the HeaDSPeaker is better, when paired with good headphones.

However expensive as that is, it can't touch the grand champion, the SVS Realiser A8. This thing actually recreates your room (or any room) precisely. It is so accurate, you can take the headphones off (it detects that and switches on speakers) and not tell the difference. It actually measures your headphones, the room, you ears, etc using little in ear mics. Positively stunning and has to be heard to believed. The awesomeness is eclipsed only by the outrageous price: $2900 for the unit itself, $3700 to get it paired with the recommended Stax SRS-2170 phones. Oh and it needs a good system/room to sample, so maybe $5000-10000 to get yourself a nice surround setup, or at least a couple hundred dollars to rent out studio time and sample their system.

Now, I'm not suggesting you run out and buy one of these, as I'm well aware they badly blow the budget, just want to put it on your radar. The HeaDSPeaker is expensive, but not out of this world expensive. It might be the kind of thing to consider in the long run. Paired with good phones like the DT880s or the like it should give a stupidly immersive experience along with a Rift. Static HRTF things like Dolby Headphone and CMMS3D will help, but they always fall short because things sound "wrong" since when you move your head, the sonic image moves with you. You have to get head tracking in there to really get it convincing.

Of course, an actual surround speaker setup is another option, but not necessarily any cheaper. It takes quite a bit of money to get speakers that can equal the detail of good headphones, and then there's the fact that everyone else has to listen to your speakers.

for those setups I would imagine the majority of games right now would not benefit as the majority of games do not track the head separate from the mouse cursor. IE if I load up battlefield or amnesia I believe right now the aim is directly linked to the head tracking so as you turn whatever sound is behind you would be behind you still.

Now some games I know they have worked out separate head tracking from aim (some mods for portal, half life 2) and that is where those setups would benefit much more.

As for a surround setup I'm covered there But... a surround sound system will not work as well with the rift as it is stationary, at least with headphones as you move your head the sound moves with you relative to the aim cursor on screen. If I thought a good surround system would work i would use what I have now, while my bedroom / gaming rig system is ok, my main living room system would be much better as it is a denon 3808ci, 2 paradigm studio 60 speakers, paradigm cc370 center channel, paradigm studio 20 surrounds and a outlaw audio LFM 1 Plus sub all calibrated with audessy.

Part of what I am reading holds true to what you and others said. Sadly it doesnt seem like you can get accurate quality audio AND accurate positional sound. You can have one but not the other, if you want accurate positional audio you sacrifice accurate sound, if you want accurate sound, you sacrifice accurate positional audio.

So from here I suppose I am going to play around and see what seems to work the best for me to give that immersion in to the audio environment. sadly until I get the rift it will be hard to really tell as having complete immersion is not possible until then lol.

 

[Sycraft]

So the point of the head tracking headphones isn't to integrate with games, it doesn't need to. They receive surround information and then process it to where your head is positioned. It works with any surround source, movies included.

Basically when you have a static HRTF algorithm, like Dolby Headphone, it is like you took your living room setup and bolted it to your head, so it moved around with you. That would sound wrong, because when we actually turn our heads, sound doesn't follow it. Head tracking HRTF means that the sound stay put, just like it does on your real surround sound system.

Now it'll depend a little on how the game works for sure. If the game interprets you moving the Rift as moving the cursor, then it should change the convolution appropriately and effectively head track the audio for you. However I imagine that's not the case, that rather it tracks it as a veiwport, like flight sims do with the TrackIR, and thus will need something like head tracking headphones to properly convolve the audio. Also games may in the future learn to use the Rift for head tracking to alter their convolution of the audio for headphones, that would be possible and make sense, but they don't now that I know of.

You don't have to sacrifice positional audio for accuracy, you already know that with your surround sound setup. You just have to pay more . I personally game on a 7.1 surround sound setup and it is both accurate and precise... it is also exceedingly expensive and totally dominates the room.

Head tracking with headphones is the way to get that in a small package, but it is also expensive.


Also, since you are someone who clearly cares about audio in your games if you do go for speakers with your computer, you want to set them up a little different than for HT. HT speakers are made to try and emulate the way speakers are done in a large theater, which is an interesting setup. It is more about diffuse surround and wide listening fields. The correct way to set them up is main speakers at 30 degree angles from center, toed in only slightly if at all, surrounds at 90-110 degrees of the dipole variety, surround back speakers at 180 degrees, right next to each other (actually touching).

Speakers for games are about positional audio. So you do things a bit different. No dipoles, monopoles all the way around. The front speakers are at 45 degree angles from the center, and toed in to point at the listener. If you only have 5 speakers, you put the surrounds in the back, not the sides, at 45 degree angles off the 180 degree point, pointed in. With 7 you then add the sides at 90 and 270 degrees. Gives a much more narrow listening area, but far superior localization.