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nVidia Hype? Fanboi question

L

lucid270

n00b
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
6
Allright, recently I've been doing my rounds reading forums, etc, etc and have come upon one question. I've been reading many comments about how nVidia has been "over-hyping" nv40 like they did with the fx line and "how it will lead to them looking embarassed when ATI beats them"...
My question is, how has nVidia overhyped themselves? Seems to me they have said practically nothing. I'm sure they've said they have a good card comming, out.. but the vast majority of the hype I have been reading has been from 3rd party sources. ie, Carmack, random Inquirer "sources", supposedly leaked 3dmark scores, etc, etc. Not really that much directly from them.

Now time for my disclaimer.... Currently I'm on a dated system running a gf2 ultra. I have a friend who interns for nvidia (and has gotten to see nv40/doom3, bastard)... Also, right now I feel ATI clearly dominates in terms of image quality, but I tend to feel that nVidia will hold its own quite well in the upcomming months(yes I've read the ATI 16 pipeline thing).

so... wtf? please correct me if I'm wrong about the hyping thing. But provide me with links...don't like fan boys with nothing to support their rantings...
 
All things, said NV40 will have an IQ advantage in the form of PS 3.0, even if its slower then the r420.
 
really. we have hyped both cards. nvdiia and ati really just said that they have some kick ass cards coming.

dont really buy any of the rumors until we have hard facts and benchmarks ;)

...well atleast thats my meathod of avoiding confusion.
 
Only one company can dominate while the other fills the role of competition. Seriously, get over it. Buy the better hardware, not the better hype.
 
Originally posted by aces170
All things, said NV40 will have an IQ advantage in the form of PS 3.0, even if its slower then the r420.
Click to expand...

R500 will be out well before PS 3.0 is important.
 
Originally posted by VIOLENCE FACTOR
Only one company can dominate while the other fills the role of competition. Seriously, get over it. Buy the better hardware, not the better hype.
Click to expand...

Whats funny is that I have no intention of buying either product. My next computer upgrade will be after decently priced 90nm hammers, pci-express, and reasonably priced ddr2... Needless to say its going to be a while.

I used to program in opengl as a little hobby. Now I'm a EE specializing in comp arch. I just follow along to keep up to date.
 
Originally posted by ThisMonsterLives
R500 will be out well before PS 3.0 is important.
Click to expand...
Funny thing is, that's what the NV boys said about PS2.0.
 
Not everyone upgrades every 6 months. If I buy the $500 NV45 I'm not upgrading for a good 1.5-2 years, and thus, yes, I can imagine PS3.0 being a selling point.
 
Originally posted by ThisMonsterLives
R500 will be out well before PS 3.0 is important.
Click to expand...

And I also read somewhere Far Cry aldready has PS 3.0 support. Besides that's no the point when Radeon 9700 pro was released atleast for 6 mths there was no dx 9 game, but that does not undermine the card breakthough technology.

At present why does ATI command the market, it is due to the IQ of the Radeon cranked with AA and AF. So even if techinically the nv40 is superior, that is like half the battle won. But again the main profits come from the mid segments ie 150-200$ range and at that price point nothing beats the Radeon 9800 pro....
 
Originally posted by aces170
All things, said NV40 will have an IQ advantage in the form of PS 3.0, even if its slower then the r420.
Click to expand...

On what? Nothing USES PS 3.0
 
All things, said NV40 will have an IQ advantage in the form of PS 3.0, even if its slower then the r420.
Click to expand...

More bullshit hype:rolleyes: Name me ONE GAME that is due out in the next YEAR+HALF or better yet show me one shread of even a hint of PS3 even being needed?
You cant because there isnt any.We have hardly scratched the left nutsak of DX9 PS2 yet let alone 18Months at the very least off DX NEXT PS3:rolleyes:

PS3 IS less functional Technology than AMD64 Curently is and it will probably take just as long if not longer to become even remotely relavent.And by which time the 6800 Will resemble a 5200 almost:p
Gotta love the BS that always acompanys new card realises:p
 
patch 1.1 of FarCry added support for ps3.0 profile

http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=9392

Other

- Improved shader speed (up to two times faster) for NVidia Geforce FX cards on very high settings
- Fixed fog bug with NVidia drivers
- Added support for NVidia NV40 chipset
- Fixed realtime shadows from blended trees
- Made improvements to lighting shaders on very high settings
- Fixed bug with lake reflections
- Added support fro PS3.0 shader profile
 
Originally posted by Brent
patch 1.1 of FarCry added support for ps3.0 profile

http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=9392

Other

- Improved shader speed (up to two times faster) for NVidia Geforce FX cards on very high settings
- Fixed fog bug with NVidia drivers
- Added support for NVidia NV40 chipset
- Fixed realtime shadows from blended trees
- Made improvements to lighting shaders on very high settings
- Fixed bug with lake reflections
- Added support fro PS3.0 shader profile
Click to expand...

Can anyone say, BURN???
 
Originally posted by Brent
patch 1.1 of FarCry added support for ps3.0 profile

http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=9392

Other

- Improved shader speed (up to two times faster) for NVidia Geforce FX cards on very high settings
- Fixed fog bug with NVidia drivers
- Added support for NVidia NV40 chipset
- Fixed realtime shadows from blended trees
- Made improvements to lighting shaders on very high settings
- Fixed bug with lake reflections
- Added support fro PS3.0 shader profile
Click to expand...

yep he said it all, I mentioned that Far Cry has PS 3.0 support. And somehow I feel there are many ATI biased posters out here.

Why dont you take ATI's own eg Radeon 9700 pro had much better IQ perfomance then the brute force fx 5800 ultra . But the fx5800 was faster without AA and AF, but RAdeon 97000 pro won it overall due to the IQ...

Basically I do not care about which card is better cause I can never afford such expensive video cards, it is the mid segment that excites me.
 
I stand by my statement . name me one game that is going to be FULL PS3 in the next 10 months? or post me a link to anywhere that this is reported and i will eat humble pie:p

we only yet have 3 games that utilise segments of ps2 so to me this whole PS3 is Marketing Hype and it's a bit like the 64Bit part of the AMD64 at best LMAO=Nothing needs it! YET!
 
Originally posted by @trapine
I stand by my statement . name me one game that is going to be FULL PS3 in the next 10 months? or post me a link to anywhere that this is reported and i will eat humble pie:p

we only yet have 3 games that utilise segments of ps2 so to me this whole PS3 is Marketing Hype and it's a bit like the 64Bit part of the AMD64 at best LMAO=Nothing needs it! YET!
Click to expand...

define "full ps3" ?
 
I did an interesting comparison recently. An almost identical setup to my own. One machine had a Geforce 4 Ti4600 and the other my slightly overclocked Radeon 9600Pro. On UT2004 my Radeon gets its ass handed to it by the older Nvidia card. Now the image quality is nicer with the ATI. Theres no doubt of that.

But on FarCry it was another matter. The ATI card DOMINATED the Nvidia hardcore on that game. Now it is true that the ATI card is a DX9 part and that the Ti4600 isn't.

But facinating just the same.

As far as the NV40 vs. R420 thing I'll wait and see the benchmarks. Although if the NV40 comes out first and is fast enough I will probably buy the top end model at that time.

So whatever the fastest card is for gaming at that time I am ready to buy will get my dollars reguardless if SIS made the damn thing. As long as the drivers are stable.
 
erm, games that use PS2.0 =

Max Payne 2
that new Tomb Raider thing
Halo PC
Farcry
Painkiller
Battlefield Vietnam
+ more

The fact that the 9x00 series can run these games better has been a big recent selling point for ATI. When PS3 games start rolling around, people are going to want a better card for them to get the extra fancy graphics features.
 
Originally posted by Brent
define "full ps3" ?
Click to expand...

full ps3: thee opposite of empty ps3. To be filled with ps3'ness. Over flowing with mounds of wonderful ps3. It could be PlayStation3.....a little birdy told me so, right after it sh!t on my window.
 
Originally posted by Sir-Fragalot
I did an interesting comparison recently. An almost identical setup to my own. One machine had a Geforce 4 Ti4600 and the other my slightly overclocked Radeon 9600Pro. On UT2004 my Radeon gets its ass handed to it by the older Nvidia card. Now the image quality is nicer with the ATI. Theres no doubt of that.

But on FarCry it was another matter. The ATI card DOMINATED the Nvidia hardcore on that game. Now it is true that the ATI card is a DX9 part and that the Ti4600 isn't.

But facinating just the same.

As far as the NV40 vs. R420 thing I'll wait and see the benchmarks. Although if the NV40 comes out first and is fast enough I will probably buy the top end model at that time.

So whatever the fastest card is for gaming at that time I am ready to buy will get my dollars reguardless if SIS made the damn thing. As long as the drivers are stable.
Click to expand...

Umm prolly because the the radeon was running w/ dx9 and the 4600 w/ dx8 DURR
 
Originally posted by drewb99
erm, games that use PS2.0 =

Max Payne 2
that new Tomb Raider thing
Halo PC
Farcry
Painkiller
Battlefield Vietnam
+ more

The fact that the 9x00 series can run these games better has been a big recent selling point for ATI. When PS3 games start rolling around, people are going to want a better card for them to get the extra fancy graphics features.
Click to expand...

MP2 uses PS 1.4
Painkiller I'm not quite sure about, I think it may only use DX8 shaders
BF Vietnam I think is DX8
 
if Nvidia is wrong for jumping the gun with SM3.0 than ATI was really wrong as they released the r300 before dx9 was even released. the sooner the hardware is in place to use sm3.0, the sooner games will come out that use it. If you keep pushing it back with the logic that there isn't any software, then the software will never come out, the hardware has to come first.
 
I think the only point that is being argued is the "NV40 will have better IQ than R420 since it has PS3.0".

Untill there is PS3.0 software, it will look relatively the same.

Now, ATi was smart, and Nvidia is now, since the sooner you get the HW, the sooner you get the SW. I'm looking forward to this batch. I like the looks of NV40.
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
the sooner the hardware is in place to use sm3.0, the sooner games will come out that use it. If you keep pushing it back with the logic that there isn't any software, then the software will never come out, the hardware has to come first.
Click to expand...

i completely agree
 
i concur.

alot of people acting like because their are not alot of current ps3.0 games out there will never been none for years or somthing.

a light should go off in your head when far cry (a game out today if you havent noticed) has already went and added ps3.0 support in their last patch.
 
about ps3 in farcry, im sure it's just there to speed up the rendering, you wont see any difference in an nvidia screenshoot using ps2 or ps3
 
here is an excellent explaination of what SM 3.0 brings to the table, as you can see, it is mostly about making development and rendering simpler, not eye candy.
 
The only thing that strikes me somewhat odd as how I've heard some people talk about 3.0 being some divine saviour for our graphics. To me, it's just another checkbox in the list I consider when buying a vid card (ie. cost, IQ, speed, driver support, features, Linux support, and availability..........pretty much in that order). Honestly, how many people bought the 8500 soley because it had PS1.4? It beat out the GF3, held the speed crown for a little while, and then the GF4 rained on its parade.

Don't get me wrong--I like that Nvidia's introducing it. I'm just more of a guy who buys the card when the game I want comes out (ie. I'll buy for Doom ]|[ or HL2 when they come out...not before). I'll buy the "features" when I want to use them.


Though, I might be a bit of an oddball in this forum to comment on this. I'm still running on a Rage Pro on one comp and a Riva TNT on the other. ;)
 
Originally posted by THE JEW (RaVeN)
The only thing that strikes me somewhat odd as how I've heard some people talk about 3.0 being some divine saviour for our graphics. To me, it's just another checkbox in the list I consider when buying a vid card (ie. cost, IQ, speed, driver support, features, Linux support, and availability..........pretty much in that order). Honestly, how many people bought the 8500 soley because it had PS1.4? It beat out the GF3, held the speed crown for a little while, and then the GF4 rained on its parade.

Don't get me wrong--I like that Nvidia's introducing it. I'm just more of a guy who buys the card when the game I want comes out (ie. I'll buy for Doom ]|[ or HL2 when they come out...not before). I'll buy the "features" when I want to use them.


Though, I might be a bit of an oddball in this forum to comment on this. I'm still running on a Rage Pro on one comp and a Riva TNT on the other. ;)
Click to expand...

shader model 3.0 is another step closer to the peak of graphics accleration the "Holodeck" level of graphics

graphics must keep evolving, and shader model 3.0 is the next evolution (not revolution)

we can't remain at shader model 2.0 forever, graphics and capabilities must keep evolving if we ever want to reach lifelike graphics

with longhorn will come shader model 4.0 which unifies the pixel and vertex programs into one, another step up the ladder
 
All I hear is blah, blah, blah. Surely graphics chips are getting more powerful, and with that said are running as hot as ever. Both the nv40 and r420 are both going to cost well out of my price range as I don't have $499 for a video card to spend. I also don't have a 500 watt power supply to power those cards. So I am definitely more attunded to what is happening in the high performance mainstream market. I have heard may is the date that they will at least launch the review sample of thier next gen stuff. It will be interesting what comes out of it. Maybe a low cost version of the 6800, like the 5900xt? Will we see the return of the 4x2 pipelining that we enjoyed turing the ti4x00 rain? Hopefully both companies will release mainstream cards that outperform where it counts. Not to mention cost a whole heck of a lot less and not require a 1 gigawatt powersupply to power. Until then there isn't anything that can take full advantage of what those new cards will offer.
 
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