Last console I owned was a Colecovision.Maybe I will get a PS4 or Xbox 720 when they can do real 1080p and 4xAA.
nah xbox 1080 sounds better.. it sounds like max xtreme sports stunt where you crush your nuts and become a woman.
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nVidia/ATi need to serve it to Rockstar (GTA IV)
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nah xbox 1080 sounds better.. it sounds like max xtreme sports stunt where you crush your nuts and become a woman.
nope well not everyone has USA speed/priced internet.. here in aussie broadband is wayyyy expensive.. i still want discs for a few years at least.
yeah thanks for your input.. i dont really care who your friends are but all my friends have their ps2/xbox/xbox360 modded.. there are modshops in every second shoping block... i cant imagine anyone buying the orignal xbox without modding it... even if they werent pirating games... ive got friends with their 360 modded inside and out flashy red-metallic cases bands of LEDs on the side indicating how hot they are... so jam your 'bollocks' up ur arse.
i dunno if selling/installing modchips is illegal in the USA but here in australia its safe to operate a modshop in a retail environment with a massive sign out the front saying MOD SHOP... yeah this is real difficult for people that arent technically minded..
dont compare your situation to my situation and call mine bollocks when you dont even have a clue what my situation is...
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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I'm sure theres a tissue around where you're sitting; use it.
Manny Calavera
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Its fact, PC games are pirated way more than consoles. Yes, that is why most publishers are staying away from PC when they initially release their games.
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=165488
Yes I know console games are pirated too but its no where near PC.
Ditto.
Its done on both sides of the 'fence' but its FAR worse on the PC side
nissanztt90
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GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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I already shipped a bundle; thanks though.
Dude, seriously, do you really need to add in the "Which solar system are you from?" I hate that kinda BS, if you disagree with me fine, but let's talk like adults here. I believe I read later in this thread that you're from Australia. That may explain the differences we're having, since I'm from the States. I'm curious, what are the copyright laws over there? Since they're still pretty strict here, people less knowledgeable about computers are going to fear doing any sort of illegal activity. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people that do know, and like you said, are using google to learn and figure out. But there's just still a ton that are afraid to get involved from that. Plus when it comes to mounting images and whatnot, it seems to really slow others down. When you read torrent comments, it's always filled with (I can't get this to work). So I'm sorry if I pissed you off or something, but you should know that I am from earth
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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hahahaha, you guys get too worked up on this forum. It's gold!
Manny Calavera
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Agreed !!!!!!!
After working on hundreds and hundreds of PC's over the years in different computer stores,I have seen it all.Guys in their mid 30's pulling up in 3 or 5 series BMW's,to have thier comp cleaned,or a mobo swapped that have all sorts of torrents,and 20 or 50 or 100 gigs of MP3's,obviously not from Itunes...
People from all walks of life,and all income brackets with thousands,to tens of thousands worth of pirated software/games/music on thier comps.Men and woman !
Then I come home and see these fools on the net (H,and many other forums)saying its not all wide spread,nor does it have the huge effect its obviously having.
Most people know they'll never get caught,so they dont care.There are so many ways to rationalize theft these days its not funny ! I used to do it myself with anime.
"Oh I'll torrent/mu/RS/irc this series now,and buy the dvd's later...." Yeah right.
Now near hundreds of anime series will likely never see the light of day because of this shit.I stopped doing it ages ago,and now buy all my anime/music/games... Yes its god damn expensive,but I finally woke up and realized the damage I was doing.When I started to see series not get licensed,that years ago would have,with no more then an after thought.Companies are going bankrupt over piracy,people are losing thier livelyhoods over it.We as a community,are now starting to see the effects in the PC gaming industry.
There is no such thing as a free lunch,and we will all pay for the free for all,that so many are taking part in on the net today.And dont tell me its just a bunch of zero's and one's because thats just more amoral BS from a week minded fool,that cant see past his own greed.
The real problem is the hard core PC crowd with the most buff PCs are the ones who pirate most. There was a guy in the industry who nailed it recently. I work in nerd land (programmers) yet most of them know nothing about Torrents, it is mainly the hard core home computer users that do. So the amount of standard computer users that are likely to know how to bit torrent a games, use Daemon tools to mount it, Yasu to cloak it are a tiny portion of the market. I read comments on TV BT sites like: "how do I play a rar?" all the time. The average shmoe doesn't know how to do very much of this.
The bigger problem is that games are targetted at the 5% of the market that can actually play them. That same 5% is the biggest pirates. We need to raise the bar on entry level PCs and we need more games that play fine on lower level machines.
Crysis is a perfect example. Probably 1% run it adequately. It has become more of an e-peen measuring tool than a game. Most people with average PCs read enough to stay far, far away.
A personal example from me. I was a big total annihilation fan, but when Supreme Commander came out, I stayed away because it was reputed to be such a pig that I knew my older system would barf on it. I got out my copy of TA instead.
Want to make it big in PC games.
Make a genuine fun game, that runs on PCs with integrated graphics. Say spore comes out and is really fun and the reviews mention it will run great on just about anything. It will be a mega hit.
And for the guys claiming you saw Pirated games. That means nothing. I download the crack/cracked version for every game I buy so I can play without the damn secure rom/ star force/disk in my system. I bought KOTOR and the disk has never been in my computer.
Want to give people a reason to buy the real thing. Include a nice manual, have down loadable content keyed to serial number, have great support. I still play NWN, and they are still releasing patches for it. I feel like I have my moneys worth 5x over and I bought it twice.
Make good games, have good support, make the real game more valuable than the pirate version. Right now the pirate version is better because I dont' need a disk in a drive.
Absolutely piracy is a factor but it is not the only one.
The bigger problem is that games are targetted at the 5% of the market that can actually play them. That same 5% is the biggest pirates. We need to raise the bar on entry level PCs and we need more games that play fine on lower level machines.
Crysis is a perfect example. Probably 1% run it adequately. It has become more of an e-peen measuring tool than a game. Most people with average PCs read enough to stay far, far away.
A personal example from me. I was a big total annihilation fan, but when Supreme Commander came out, I stayed away because it was reputed to be such a pig that I knew my older system would barf on it. I got out my copy of TA instead.
Want to make it big in PC games.
Make a genuine fun game, that runs on PCs with integrated graphics. Say spore comes out and is really fun and the reviews mention it will run great on just about anything. It will be a mega hit.
And for the guys claiming you saw Pirated games. That means nothing. I download the crack/cracked version for every game I buy so I can play without the damn secure rom/ star force/disk in my system. I bought KOTOR and the disk has never been in my computer.
Want to give people a reason to buy the real thing. Include a nice manual, have down loadable content keyed to serial number, have great support. I still play NWN, and they are still releasing patches for it. I feel like I have my moneys worth 5x over and I bought it twice.
Make good games, have good support, make the real game more valuable than the pirate version. Right now the pirate version is better because I dont' need a disk in a drive.
Absolutely piracy is a factor but it is not the only one.
I think it is in nvidia and ati's best interests to hammer in behind the scenes and secure games like GTA IV for their platform. I am beyond frustrated that us PC enthusiasts get treated like second class gamers.
My PC has a graphics engine that absolutely shits over playstation3 and xbox360, so why am I forced to spend hundreds of dollars on a downgrade to one of these platforms or be subject to 6 months of waiting for a PC version, perhaps to be told no sorry we will never release one.
Why should I go out and buy the x360 720p version or the PS3 620p when I already have a system that would be fully capable of running SWXGA (1050p)?
Just like last time (San Andreas), when it gets released we'll get shafted with a price that is equal to if not more expensive than the initial release price (on x360/PS3) even though the game is 6 months old and the price on x360/PS3 is now about half.
When I bought GTA San Andreas from my local retailer (EB Games), I paid AU$109.95 for it when the PS2 version was then selling at AU$49.95. Really annoying and unfair.
Also us PC gamers by being forced to wait 6 months for the release run the risk only having access to a moderated version if certain fanatical groups have their way with their nonsense boycotts.
microsoft and sony secured versions of this game for their platforms, why shouldn't nvidia do the the same for their platform and their customers.
I'm with you 100% man.
Dude, seriously, do you really need to add in the "Which solar system are you from?" I hate that kinda BS, if you disagree with me fine, but let's talk like adults here. I believe I read later in this thread that you're from Australia. That may explain the differences we're having, since I'm from the States. I'm curious, what are the copyright laws over there? Since they're still pretty strict here, people less knowledgeable about computers are going to fear doing any sort of illegal activity. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people that do know, and like you said, are using google to learn and figure out. But there's just still a ton that are afraid to get involved from that. Plus when it comes to mounting images and whatnot, it seems to really slow others down. When you read torrent comments, it's always filled with (I can't get this to work). So I'm sorry if I pissed you off or something, but you should know that I am from earth
yeah sorry about that, I really shouldnt act like some of the ASSHOLE TROLLS around here.. but in my experience I simply don't know many people that dont know what torrents are and the average of my good buddies are not computer litterate in how I would term the word. They wouldnt know how to do basic stuff like re-install windows but they sure as hell know how to download on bittorrent. But really to think its around 5% is ridicuilous.
Yes we have strict laws against pirating, but these are only really inforced im markets and other public venues where they are sold, not people at home or distributing disks to friends.. Infact recently the South Australian Police Force was found pirating movies.. not 1 or 2 coppers but a large majority of the force http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23495134-5006787,00.html
The Australian said:
go suck your mothers freak cock, like i'd cry over your loser troll shit.
i found your mothers website godslittleservantsmumdoesitforscraps.com you log in upload a photo of whatever you have left on your plate and if theres a couple veggies left or a bit gravy on the bottom of the place she'll catch a bus over and service you.. One time I accidentally left a half-eaten pork-chop on my place.. oh man I couldnt see for a week.. give her my thanks would ya!
I'm not talking about a fixed-exe file in a game beacause thats not something that one would notice unless they ran the game.. but when there is a 4GB ISO file with a cracker name in the title like reloaded or razor1911 (mod pls edit my post if thats out of line to mention these guys).. its pretty safe to assume that they didnt buy the game at all.. only a fool would download 4GB of data that they already have when they can just download a 100kb crack file. If you wanted to store the ISO file on your hdd like I do why wouldnt you just copy the game disk to a folder on your hdd, make a folder in that called crack or something and put the fixed exe/update patches in there and make it into an ISO ?? or do you just like advertising your IP on bittorrent risking prosecution?
But these people do buy the odd occasional game which is obvious because people so often leave games in their roms when they bring in their PC...
I crack all the games i buy too, but I am going to stop now, want of more titles is now outweighing the inconvenience of inserting a disc.
Piracy is just an lame excuse to hide how crappy the games are these days. Its like they slap new graphics on the same old gameplay and expect it to sell millions. When it fails they blame everything on piracy. People pirate because of the crappy protection they put on their games and also because they don't want to be ripped off. If a game is good then people will buy it. Anything can be copied even steam games in the past. I know a lot of people and even me who pirated halflife2 when it came out on as a beta on steam but then some hacker group released a emulator of steam to get around it. I ended up buying the game since i liked it so much and so did my friends. These days it seems like developers are losing creativity and talent. We are seeing a lot of rehashed trash. Crysis is good but the game needs to be optimized more than what it is now thats for sure. Something wrong if you can get cod4 to look better than crysis with less requirements.
I think they just want to develop on the consoles because it has a bigger crowd. It makes sense but they can't just dump us. It isn't just about piracy, its about greed also lol. Hopefully amd puts some decent enough videocards onboard. I think that will boost pc game sales a lot if they did because intels onboard graphics are so slow. They haven't improved since the 90s at all. I'm tired also of that copy protection also with the insert ur cd message. I'm sure everyone is tired of that crappy protection, we all get the cracks anyways to bypass it. The companies should just remove it all together because those hackers are smart and will always get by any protection anyways. Its only hurting the people that are really buying the games.
I think they just want to develop on the consoles because it has a bigger crowd. It makes sense but they can't just dump us. It isn't just about piracy, its about greed also lol. Hopefully amd puts some decent enough videocards onboard. I think that will boost pc game sales a lot if they did because intels onboard graphics are so slow. They haven't improved since the 90s at all. I'm tired also of that copy protection also with the insert ur cd message. I'm sure everyone is tired of that crappy protection, we all get the cracks anyways to bypass it. The companies should just remove it all together because those hackers are smart and will always get by any protection anyways. Its only hurting the people that are really buying the games.
inotocracy
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Piracy isn't just a lame excuse, COD4 was great and its one of the top most pirated games. Yeah there are numbers, search back through this thread.
MrGuvernment
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didnt read it all
400million????
piracy = EXCUSE
of course it will come to PC
release to pc in 1-2 years = more cash, period.
piracy can not be prevent nor can "facts / numbers/ from either side be predicted or assumed true"
400million????
piracy = EXCUSE
of course it will come to PC
release to pc in 1-2 years = more cash, period.
piracy can not be prevent nor can "facts / numbers/ from either side be predicted or assumed true"
D
Deleted member 174368
Guest
The problem is most developers wrongly assume everyone that pirated the game would have bought it had piracy not existed.
So they see those numbers, say 50,000 downloads, and then go up in arms about how those are 50,000 lost sales, when in reality it's much, much less than that.
Don't worry man. You've had some great points in this thread too, so it's okay. I'm beginning to see that the 5% is small on a larger scale, but that number came from the people I see everyday. I guess where I am, it's just less popular! That's what I get for being from a smaller midwestern town. I definitely agree with what you said about how much a better it is to let a PC run at 1080p+. Plus no AA on consoles is a big turn off to me. If I had a 360 or PS3, I'd pick up the game, but I don't yet, and I'm not planning on getting it anytime soon. That's why I'm really praying for it to come to PC!
Conker said:
I definitely agree with you too a point, PC developers have been slacking. But what has been mentioned before is how difficult it is to develop for the PC. If there were someway to guarantee a little more standardization for the PC, maybe that would help. Or maybe the developers lie to us and the PC is easy to develop on! We need some more solid games to help out that aren't so intense on the hardware. Good games are worth my money. 50 bucks for 20-30 hours of good entertainment is a good deal in my book, and that's maximum price for a PC game now.
You are also right about integrated graphics needing to improve. That would certainly change things, but sadly, I don't think they will ever improve. If they do, there will still be cheaper alternatives that people will still end up sticking with.
Can pirated games be played online? I know that's stopped some people I know from pirating games.
No it is not safe to assume that. BTW not everyone lives in a country where they risk prosecution from downloading.
Like I said, my KOTOR disk has never been in my computer. The pirate version I downloaded is self contained, no need to mount it or anything. I can put it on a thumb drive and play it from there. So it is 100% free of any crap, so it is much more convenient to download a version that gives me total freedom of use than to rip my own disk.
It is a sad state of affairs but the Pirates deliver a better/more usable product and I trust them to not mess up my computer, more than I trust the game distributors with their starforce/rootkits etc...
You also ignore the people who try before buying. I do that, that is how I ended up with KOTOR. Since most games are crap, I won't buy a game without at least trying a demo one way or another.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50951
COD4 has sold more than 7M of copies but the PC accounts only for 300K. The PC poor sales figure is a shame and is mainly explained by piracy.
I always been a PC gamer (better graphic, better control for FPS games) but I think that it is time for me to move on and buy a console.
Who cares about the graphics if there are no games to play with?
PS: Those who pirates games are loosers!!!!
COD4 has sold more than 7M of copies but the PC accounts only for 300K. The PC poor sales figure is a shame and is mainly explained by piracy.
I always been a PC gamer (better graphic, better control for FPS games) but I think that it is time for me to move on and buy a console.
Who cares about the graphics if there are no games to play with?
PS: Those who pirates games are loosers!!!!
inotocracy
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Do explain how a VPN is helping piracy.
1) Piracy narrows your market. This really is the big one. They just need to figure out a way to overcome piracy. The MMO sector has figured it out.
2) PCs, for the most part, come with a keyboard, and no game pad. If your game requires a game pad, you must either sell your game with one or depend on the user to buy it. This can narrow your market instantly. This is why games like Guitar Hero are able to succeed, and games that require the HD-DVD Addon Drive on the 360 are not developed.
3) Console specs do not vary much from system to system. You do not have to worry about satisfying every customer with as many combinations of hardware/software as possible. If you sell a PS3 game, 100% of the PS3 market is capable of playing your game.
2) PCs, for the most part, come with a keyboard, and no game pad. If your game requires a game pad, you must either sell your game with one or depend on the user to buy it. This can narrow your market instantly. This is why games like Guitar Hero are able to succeed, and games that require the HD-DVD Addon Drive on the 360 are not developed.
3) Console specs do not vary much from system to system. You do not have to worry about satisfying every customer with as many combinations of hardware/software as possible. If you sell a PS3 game, 100% of the PS3 market is capable of playing your game.
You left out the thing which narrows the market the most. The vast majority of PC's aren't equipped to run modern games. Does anyone have figures on what percent of computers have at least a NV 7800 level graphics. I bet it is under 5%. So right off the bat you eliminate 95% of the market. Then say piracy cuts the remainder in half. Down to 2.5%. Then you have to look at even that tiny portion is not as homogeneous as console gamers, then you have to look at if they already have 10 games of that type.... So your are lucky to have a market of 1% before people even decide if they actually like your game.
Selling to consoles OTOH is like shooting fish in a barrel. They bought it to play console games, the market is completely homogeneous. 100% of the Xbox360 play the game the same way, an everyone knows that. Your potential audience is pretty much 100%.
I would rather have 100% of 15 million, than 1% of 100 million.
I may finally get a console in the next generation when they can really do 1080p with decent AA, this generation still doesn't have the power.
The PC really may die as a gaming platform when the next gen consoles come out, then there will almost no reason to not get a Mac and a Console and kiss windows goodbye.
Selling to consoles OTOH is like shooting fish in a barrel. They bought it to play console games, the market is completely homogeneous. 100% of the Xbox360 play the game the same way, an everyone knows that. Your potential audience is pretty much 100%.
I would rather have 100% of 15 million, than 1% of 100 million.
I may finally get a console in the next generation when they can really do 1080p with decent AA, this generation still doesn't have the power.
The PC really may die as a gaming platform when the next gen consoles come out, then there will almost no reason to not get a Mac and a Console and kiss windows goodbye.
That's what the 3rd one was about. Maybe it wasn't cleaer enough, though.
The problem with that notion is that they should be able to have both. 2 million PC gamers plus 3 million console gamers adds up to better than either/or. The real problem comes when you start to account for additional costs to develop for certain audiences.. there is a real reason as to why GTA4 didn't launch on PC along with console (and from what I understand, PS3 is more difficult to *develop* for than PC, so it's not difficulty of development).
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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go suck your mothers freak cock, like i'd cry over your loser troll shit.
i found your mothers website godslittleservantsmumdoesitforscraps.com you log in upload a photo of whatever you have left on your plate and if theres a couple veggies left or a bit gravy on the bottom of the place she'll catch a bus over and service you.. One time I accidentally left a half-eaten pork-chop on my place.. oh man I couldnt see for a week.. give her my thanks would ya!
I can see your intelligence is on par with your posting. Job well done on getting the bant.
hahahha, pont.
Sales number dont lie, deal with it, stop crying and buy a console or play at your backyard
oh great, assholes on hardforum saying ppl are crying and telling ppl to buy consoles (they suck, can't run 1600p gg)
nissanztt90
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But he is crying...
I can play games online without having to buy them over it.
inotocracy
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Not sure if Crysis is a good example considering the really high requirements of the game, but COD4 is a perfect example of PC piracy.
Yep, not even on the 2007 charts:
Notice the type of games that manage to find the most success on the PC are hard to pirate MMO games and casual games that cater to a less savvy audience.
Here's console's 2007 chart for good measure:
I agree, and for the hard core pc gamer unfortunately that means games like Peggle, Diner Dash and the Sims2 are entry level games now a days.
I know a ton of people, many admittedly female who adore flash web based games or other simple "addictive" games that look like products of the mid 1990's in their graphical detail.
I'm not sure if entry level hardware was fast enough to run UT3 or Quake that it would even make a difference, I don't think the general public would even care. 100% of PCs are capable of running these $10 web download games and their free ad supported flash counterparts, and sadly for us that appeals to probably 90% of the PC gamers out there.
Yep, sadly we are probably only 5-10% maybe 20% at best? of the PC gamer market, the rest are average people playing cheap or free basic games, and the occasional $50 Sims game.