NVIDIA Ampere GPU Rumored for April Launch

/dev/null · Feb 13, 2018

kirbyrj said:
Depends on the algorithm. ETH needs the memory IIRC.

I don't think eth needs more than 4G these days, does it?

Archaea · Feb 13, 2018

Parja said:
If you want to avoid paying taxes, sure.

I'll respectfully pay my taxes when I cash out to fiat. I don't think it's ethical, lawful, or even clearly documented that you should be paying taxes on it like a residual income along the way. So I want no part of that, and I fear that will become part of it.

Let's use a real world example: In December - I was making $12 a day on my 1080TI. So paying taxes on that would be 30%. Or $4 per day. So If I had to consider that income I'd account for $4 at the time of receiving the BTC (in December). My electric bill is 10% of my mining profit - so we'll get that generic figure in mind. Then I have to pay 30% when I sell it for converting to fiat if less than 1 year (the only fair tax). --- so up to 70% of that earning is tax or electricity in that model!!!!!

What if bitcoin drops 50% from December to January. (LIKE IT ACTUALLY DID) Now i'm 20% in the hole with that taxation model.

heck no. I'm not doing that.

I'm only voluntarily paying taxes on crypto when converting to fiat. That's when it becomes actual tangible money, and that's the only way any of this actually makes sense logically. I fear the government's tax logic, so I'll keep it out of their easy button view --- until such time I convert to fiat.

Parja said:
Yeah, it's a little convoluted, but pretty easy to do with no fees. Nicehash wallet to Coinbase (no fee), Coinbase to GDAX (no fee), GDAX to anywhere (no fee). And you can do all of that in about 30 seconds.

GDAX can convert to USD at no fee? Or GDAX can send to external wallet at no fee?

And 30 seconds to watch three different exchanges happen and verify? No way.

(also that's three different places to potentially have money stolen (instead of one))

Convoluted is right. so yeah - no thanks.

Given this discussion - you still think withdrawing to an external wallet directly is terrible advice???

Parja · Feb 13, 2018

Archaea said:
I'll respectfully pay my taxes when I cash out to fiat. I don't think it's ethical, lawful, or even clearly documented that you should be paying taxes on it like a residual income along the way. So I want no part of that, and I fear that will become part of it.

Let's use a real world example: In December - I was making $12 a day on my 1080TI. So paying taxes on that would be 30%. Or $4 per day. So If I had to consider that income I'd account for $4 at the time of receiving the BTC (in December). My electric bill is 10% of my mining profit - so we'll get that generic figure in mind. Then I have to pay 30% when I sell it for converting to fiat if less than 1 year (the only fair tax). --- so up to 70% of that earning is tax or electricity in that model!!!!!

What if bitcoin drops 50% from December to January. (LIKE IT ACTUALLY DID) Now i'm 20% in the hole with that taxation model.

That's all handled through gains and losses, just like stock investing.

GDAX can convert to USD at no fee? Or GDAX can send to external wallet at no fee?

Both. If you sell to USD via a posted limit sell, you pay no fees. Also, no fees to move that money out to a bank account.

You can also send to an external wallet for no fees.

And 30 seconds to watch three different exchanges happen and verify? No way.

Nope, the transfers all happen pretty much instantly. As you said, Nicehash wallet is most likely a Coinbase wallet as the transfer is basically instant. GDAX is Coinbase's exchange, so transfer to your GDAX account is also basically instant.

Given this discussion - you still think withdrawing to an external wallet directly is terrible advice???

Yes.

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Hakaba said:
Hmmm ... in short, people were buying the ti cards because there are no RX/Vega/1060/70/80s anywhere to be found for msrp. They started hitting, 600/700/800, the next non looked at card was the 1080ti which was going for msrp.

Then they sold out and started to go for 1100-1400, with 1070s going for 900-100. So some folk decided to sell thier TI to buy Titan XPs and prices started to get worse from there.

TLDR, Nvidia became the option when AMD was gone, peeps realized Nvidia were not as bad as they were lead to believe. Also a 1-2K TI hashes better than no card...

Thats about what I thought. Had to be a reason when it may take twice as long to get your profit out of a higher cost card. I havent <obviously> been seriously following the timeline, I just understood that the higher the buy-in, the lesser the profits- especially when the higher priced card uses more power to run. A ti card makes perfect sense when you get free electricity, but if you have to pay the electric company each month, +65 watts for a 3 point increase in the hash rate doesnt compute.

Still kinda suprised that ti cards are going for such a premium in 2018, but as you pointed out some income is better than none.

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Parja said:
Your data is 6+ months old...ancient history in the crypto world. Might want to get up to speed befo

.......the hash rate or price?

The hash rate is a known factor. Ti is only slightly better than a RX card for twice the price and takes more power to run so the improved hash rate might be obviated by the higher costs to run. Somewhat true on price though. Suprized that the Ti's card has increased so much over - 6 months - because of the above thought.

Hope that it works out for those who have invested in it for mining, just tough to calculate the benefits - with the exception of other cards are soo tough to find that any card beats no card at all.

Parja · Feb 13, 2018

Khahhblaab said:
.......the hash rate or price?

All of it. Also, nobody's mining Ethereum with NVIDIA cards.

The hash rate is a known factor. Ti is only slightly better than a RX card for twice the price and takes more power to run so the improved hash rate might be obviated by the higher costs to run. Somewhat true on price though. Suprized that the Ti's card has increased so much over - 6 months - because of the above thought.

See, this is what I mean. You wouldn't be surprised if you knew what you were talking about.

From around December until the end of January, a single 1080Ti was consistently making about $8-12/day.

People have not been buying 1080Tis for mining due to a lack of availability of other cards. Serious miners have been specifically seeking out 1080Tis for their mining rigs.

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Archaea said:
Ummm

Let’s try this again

https://www.nicehash.com/profitability-calculator

Keep in mind profits are WAAAY down right now.

A month ago my 1080ti were making $10 a day and my 8GB RX580 were making $5 a day. It’ll bounce back up out of this current valley. I think the whales are manipulating the market again. When they shake out the weak, they’ll shoot the market back up to new record highs.

So it also depends on the "miner' being used.

Rx Vega 64 = 39.69 Mh/s @ dagger hasimoto & $499. MSRP

Titan V = 2.61 Mh/s @ neoscript & $2999. MSRP

Maybe I gotta understand the differences in 'miners', since the page seems to say the the 3G card is a better miner but a lesser hash rate

Admitingly still learning the intricacies. Still takes more time to pay for more expensive hardware

Archaea · Feb 13, 2018

Khahhblaab said:
A ti card makes perfect sense when you get free electricity, but if you have to pay the electric company each month, +65 watts for a 3 point increase in the hash rate doesnt compute.

Why are you stuck on Eth as the meter stick?

There are many different algorithms, you keep quoting Eth like it's the only one. Very few crypto miners would target Eth with a 1080ti - because it's not the most profitable choice (by far).

Nvidia mines many more algorithms with higher profitably than AMD. AMD has basically two comparatively profitable algorithms. 1) ETN/Cryptonite, and 2) Eth.

Like I told you earlier. At any given time during the month of December and January my 1080TI were making 30-100% more profit than my RX580 cards. (the 1080TI were NOT mining Eth - oftentimes the RX580's were)

Archaea · Feb 13, 2018

Khahhblaab said:
So it also depends on the "miner' being used.

Rx Vega 64 = 39.69 Mh/s @ dagger hasimoto & $499. MSRP

Titan V = 2.61 Mh/s @ neoscript & $2999. MSRP

Maybe I gotta understand the differences in 'miners', since the page seems to say the the 3G card is a better miner but a lesser hash rate

Admitingly still learning the intricacies. Still takes more time to pay for more expensive hardware

hash rates are dramatically different for every algorithm. many crypto coins = many different algorithms.

now it makes more sense why you keep quoting only Eth numbers...

that number only applies if you are mining Eth.

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Parja said:
All of it. Also, nobody's mining Ethereum with NVIDIA cards.

See, this is what I mean. You wouldn't be surprised if you knew what you were talking about.

From around December until the end of January, a single 1080Ti was consistently making about $8-12/day.

People have not been buying 1080Tis for mining due to a lack of availability of other cards. Serious miners have been specifically seeking out 1080Tis for their mining rigs.

Ok. Since you are 'in it' you may be experiencing things that the available 'reads' aren't stating. This is what I read:

Slightly improved hash rate is eaten up by the increased power draw. Thats all that i am stating. So, unless I am missing something - possibly because ethereum is a different candidate because it is more memory intensive - each 'coin' will perform better on specific platforms. So your pov is specifically for the coin that you like best....maybe mining most. If a ti card is bad because of a certain specific, it will be better for another.

Knowing this is still perplexing that they have sold so much, with the above exception that some is better than none.

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Archaea said:
Why are you stuck on Eth as the meter stick?

There are many different algorithms, you keep quoting Eth like it's the only one. Very few crypto miners would target Eth with a 1080ti - because it's not the most profitable choice (by far).

Nvidia mines many more algorithms with higher profitably than AMD. AMD has basically two comparatively profitable algorithms. 1) ETN/Cryptonite, and 2) Eth.

Like I told you earlier. At any given time during the month of December and January my 1080TI were making 30-100% more profit than my RX580 cards. (the 1080TI were NOT mining Eth - oftentimes the RX580's were)

I agree! You are missing my main point. I am not specifying a certain algorithm.

Admittingly still getting the facts, and I am glad you posted what you did because it validates what i thought. Some cards are better than others based on what its mining (y)

A $2000 card wont make sense for those mining an "amd is better for this" situation.

****edit *****
Gotta tell a few reviews that they are missing the point and that its important to state what coin is being mined in stating one card is better than another. Not every algorithm is the same and some cards are better than others depending on the job at hand (y)

***** end edit *****
Thanks for clearing this up. More questions may follow

Khahhblaab · Feb 13, 2018

Archaea said:
hash rates are dramatically different for every algorithm. many crypto coins = many different algorithms.

now it makes more sense why you keep quoting only Eth numbers...

that number only applies if you are mining Eth.

...what would your position be with the numbers that i posted ? <looking for a better understanding>

Parja · Feb 13, 2018

Khahhblaab said:
Ok. Since you are 'in it' you may be experiencing things that the available 'reads' aren't stating. This is what I read:

Slightly improved hash rate is eaten up by the increased power draw. Thats all that i am stating. So, unless I am missing something - possibly because ethereum is a different candidate because it is more memory intensive - each 'coin' will perform better on specific platforms. So your pov is specifically for the coin that you like best....maybe mining most. If a ti card is bad because of a certain specific, it will be better for another.

Knowing this is still perplexing that they have sold so much, with the above exception that some is better than none.

That's bad information.

Khahhblaab said:
I agree! You are missing my main point. I am not specifying a certain algorithm. Its just that its easier to say hash rate than specifying a certain coin.

Easier, but not at all a valid way to compare the profitability of one card against another.

Admittingly still getting the facts, and I am glad you posted what you did because it validates what i thought. Some cards are better than others based on what its mining

Bingo.

A $2000 card wont make sense for those mining an "amd is better for this" situation.

The current facts are that NVIDIA cards are generally more profitable right now. They're also a LOT easier to get setup optimally than AMD cards. AMD cards also have very limited algorithms they're good at whereas there are a pretty big handful NVIDIA are good at.

Khahhblaab said:
...what would your position be with the numbers that i posted ? <looking for a better understanding>

Throw it out.

Here are some tools you can use to get an idea of the relative profitability of different cards...
http://whattomine.com/
https://www.nicehash.com/profitability-calculator

Hakaba · Feb 13, 2018

Archaea said:
To hear someone say miners only bought NVidia because AMD cards were sold out is to hear a dyed in the wool ETH miner.

I've sold all my AMD cards now. I'm NVidia only mining going forward, unless things drastically change. My experience has been that NVidia are significantly superior mining cards than AMD cards for the reasons I listed above. Characterize my experience as Windows 10 only -- though. I tried a Linux run with SMOS, but had riser errors that were preventing it from running, never gave it another try after I got the riser issue figured out.

My response was to his response and his data would be true early to mid last year, when every YouTube video, how two print money guide came out, which 99% of them were mining ETH. In those guides those builds regularly called for RX480, RX580 since they were cheaper than the Nvidia counter parts and I would guess no one really tested em. Once AMD was started to get scarce/over priced 1060/1070s were tested and... they were not awful for ETH nor were they bad for ZEN or anything else, it was the opposite.

I never really messed with Nicehash, I’ve used awesome miner, and recently swapped to SMOS (less stability issues for me), I ran 2x rigs of 6x 1070 on windows 10 (sold 1 rig last month) and grown to hate certain z270 boards and pcie risers. Through research I started to learn about the other hundreds of coins (some hash better for algorithms than others), now while I did mine for profit I pretty much stuck with Mona.

BLUF
I agree with you, my experiences were around the timeframe of ETH, but when the difficulty skyrocketed I did not sell anything. Just moved to more profitable coins then to a coin I would like to succeed/think Japan might adopt as a main due to national pride.

Archaea · Feb 13, 2018

Khahhblaab said:
...what would your position be with the numbers that i posted ? <looking for a better understanding>

Those numbers are basically true if you are mining ONLY Ethereum. (ethhash algorithm)

BUT

Look how many different coins you can mine with many different algorithms.
https://bitcoinguide.online/a-list-of-cryptocurrency-algorithms/

It's like you are looking at an elephant through a fixed keyhole and trying to describe the whole animal based on the 1% you can see.

You can either pick a coin and just mine that coin, or you can use a profit switching miner like nicehash or awesome miner and try to chase the most profitable coin at the time (changes often).

Here's a screenprint from the awesome miner benchmark utility. These are some of the common coins it supports natively, (you can add your own) and this screenshot shows hash rate benchmarks (maybe a 1060?) You benchmark your particular System hardware, and then the program automatically mines the most profitable coin based on your unique benchmarks against the profitabilty stats from whattomine.com

These auto switching tools aren't foolproof, but they chase after highest profitability by switching to the currently hot coins and mining those. Eth is almost never at the top of that list for Nvidia hardware, and often on the top of the list for AMD.

Archaea · Feb 13, 2018

NVIDIA Ampere GPU Rumored for April Launch

/dev/null

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