NV GTX 460 1GB SLI vs. ATI HD 5850 CFX Redux @ [H]

[Lord_Exodia]

Tamlin WSGF, your post is full of crap. I'm not going to feed into what your trying to do. I guess somebody else might. So your stance is the drivers being better on nvidia's side is FUD. However longer than you ever posted here that has been a general consensus. Although you use the 10.9 cats, many others are still stuck at 10.4 or 10.5 because of their specific issues on their apps which by the way may not be avp or bfbc2 as they seemed to have addressed issues primarily in those games.

So because you bothered linking to a few times when people complained about nvidia drivers your going to use that as a stance to say the drivers are even. I and anyone else here can go through the same trouble, and post amd driver problem links. And after back and forth you'll lose the argument eventually thus hijacking this thread into something it's not about.

This nvidia has better drivers is a general consensus on this and many other forums, if you want to be ignorant about it then that's up to you. I dont feed the trolls

Fact is every Cat driver released has a thread of people asking what does this break? how is it on my current game? Does my shitty crossfire peformance improve on my 5970 or in general? Not the case with nvidia releases. They usually just work. You may not like this but that is how it is.

 

[blastingcap]

Tamlin WSGF, your post is full of crap. I'm not going to feed into what your trying to do. I guess somebody else might. So your stance is the drivers being better on nvidia's side is FUD. However longer than you ever posted here that has been a general consensus. Although you use the 10.9 cats, many others are still stuck at 10.4 or 10.5 because of their specific issues on their apps which by the way may not be avp or bfbc2 as they seemed to have addressed issues primarily in those games.

So because you bothered linking to a few times when people complained about nvidia drivers your going to use that as a stance to say the drivers are even. I and anyone else here can go through the same trouble, and post amd driver problem links. And after back and forth you'll lose the argument eventually thus hijacking this thread into something it's not about.

This nvidia has better drivers is a general consensus on this and many other forums, if you want to be ignorant about it then that's up to you. I dont feed the trolls

Fact is every Cat driver released has a thread of people asking what does this break? how is it on my current game? Does my shitty crossfire peformance improve on my 5970 or in general? Not the case with nvidia releases. They usually just work. You may not like this but that is how it is.

I don't think you speak for everyone so what's this "consensus" thing coming from? Consensus that SLI is better, maybe, but single-GPU drivers? I dunno. And if you look online there are a ton of "problems with GTX460" threads. And NV drivers caused the deaths of video cards earlier this year, as well as more than NV-marketshare % of Vista crashes. Not to mention bumpgate--drivers come and go, but dead cards are forever.

 

[kllrnohj]

This bullshit comment I can't let slide. Your not serious are you. Nvidia has always had better drivers. There were times where they had mishaps some were epic even, however in general through game scaling, support, and in general, there has ALWAYS been a consensus that nvidia's drivers are superior. Only somebody truly blinded would state and believe what you said. So again I have to ask are you serious?

Of course I'm serious. I use Nvidia and ATI drivers on a daily basis - neither is better. They both have their pros and cons.

Only somebody truly blinded would state that one company has inferior drivers - that stopped being true like 5 years ago, at least.

And no, Nvidia having better drivers is *NOT* a general consensus on this or really any forum (assuming you aren't going to a pro-nvidia or pro-ati forum), not even close. You see the same *FEW* people making the claim that company A or B has better drivers, and then the majority come out and laugh and call BS.

 

[ITSTHINKING]

The review sounded biased I think because nVidia really hit a home run with 460 SLI. The 460 is a solid board and it scales really well in SLI. The 5850s on the other hand are better boards and yet performed worse when paired together. Furthermore CFX worked fine before 10.5 and AMD somehow managed to break it and not fix it until 10.8.

I really don't think [H] has a green team bias because if you read their review of the 450 they pretty much end by saying there's no reason to buy one and AMD totally kicked nVidia's ass with this last product cycle.

nVidia SLI > AMD Crossfire
AMD Cypress/Pro > nVidia Fermi

That's more or less how it is right now and [H]'s tone in reviews reflects that.

Call it what you will. [H] just tells it like it is, at the time and they have have a better track record imo with telling the truth. I've always found them to not be biased, a good example that sticks out in my mind is when they talked about the 4800 series when they came out. They talked about how undeniably faster the 280 was, although they made sure to show the real world difference between the 4850, 80, and the gtx 260, 80. It was great because I chose the 4870 knowing damn well there were faster cards but the 4870 was very fast (at the time) in it's own right and I didn't end up buying the highest end card for the first time ever in about 5 gens. I guess I am saying that everyone sounds a little biased sometimes but I feel like [H] cares about the truth not about brands, colors, or fans. I hate websites that suck other companies d!cks to stay afloat.

Of course I'm serious. I use Nvidia and ATI drivers on a daily basis - neither is better. They both have their pros and cons.

Only somebody truly blinded would state that one company has inferior drivers - that stopped being true like 5 years ago, at least.

And no, Nvidia having better drivers is *NOT* a general consensus on this or really any forum (assuming you aren't going to a pro-nvidia or pro-ati forum), not even close. You see the same *FEW* people making the claim that company A or B has better drivers, and then the majority come out and laugh and call BS.

I think I agree with you, mainly because I would like to think that we have finally gotten to the point as consumers that people are starting to be less loyal to company a or b. When we see blatant lies (pretty much lies) we are smart enough to notice it and call it out. It doesn't help consumers to always stick with one company, you never know what you could be missing out on.

 

[Warl0rd]

One thing is certain:

ATI Catalyst™ 10.8b Hotfix

ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 X2 and ATI Radeon HD 4850 X2 use both Graphics Processing Units (GPU) for high performance

ATI Catalyst™ 10.9a Hotfix

ATI Radeon™ HD 4870 X2 and ATI Radeon HD 4850 X2 series of products use both Graphics Processing Units (GPU) for high performance

Who makes the exact same mistake twice in a row?! ATI has no quality control releasing their drivers.

 

[Deleted member 109755]

Am I the only one that thinks that this whole test is invalidated by the fact that you changed your Nvidia drivers to some new beta ones, therefore negating your previous nvidia results and putting them up against new "improved" ATI ones?

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I don't think you speak for everyone so what's this "consensus" thing coming from? Consensus that SLI is better, maybe, but single-GPU drivers? I dunno. And if you look online there are a ton of "problems with GTX460" threads. And NV drivers caused the deaths of video cards earlier this year, as well as more than NV-marketshare % of Vista crashes. Not to mention bumpgate--drivers come and go, but dead cards are forever.

I've been doing this for a long time and I have used everything from nvidia ati quadro fire GL. Nvidia's drivers have always been considered better. When a new forceware driver is available I dont have to ask myself, what did this break? How is my performance scaling in my current game? Better, worse, same?

They simply work right the first time on a FAR more consistent basis than they do for amd dual cards OR single. Doesn't matter.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Of course I'm serious. I use Nvidia and ATI drivers on a daily basis - neither is better. They both have their pros and cons.

Only somebody truly blinded would state that one company has inferior drivers - that stopped being true like 5 years ago, at least.

And no, Nvidia having better drivers is *NOT* a general consensus on this or really any forum (assuming you aren't going to a pro-nvidia or pro-ati forum), not even close. You see the same *FEW* people making the claim that company A or B has better drivers, and then the majority come out and laugh and call BS.

Nvidia does better single or dual drivers and that's a fact. Everything from game support to just simple support for multi monitor, nv surround is easier to setup, the fact that they actually have a 3d solution. The fact that they kick the crap out of AMD when going dual card and AMD has had a few generations to catch nvidia on this front but have failed. The best their flagship cards can do is compete with GTX 460 1gb SLi. They are simply outclassed by SLi on anything over that.

Still no crossfire profiles to choose from like alternate frame rendering options like nvidia has. Limited bezel correction options, and in general their drivers allow for alot less flexibility. Not to mention that AMD has destroyed performance in several games and it took them 4 driver releases and hardocp to help them get it fixed.

Nvidia customers sleep better at night because of this stuff. I've never had a nvidia driver kill one of my nvidia cards, here or at work, nor has anyone that I know personally. Not saying it didn't happen but that's my experience.

Every time a new Cat is available there is a thread here and in many other forums of people scared to install it asking, how is performance on xyz game? What does this driver break. You can dispute the facts. Anyone who states this isn't the case simply hasn't tried nvidia products enough and simply doesn't know what they are talking about. FYI I have several AMD cards in my wife and sons rigs due to aggressive pricing and in general them being good deals. I set them up myself so I have not only hands on experience but deal with both on a daily basis

 

[magoo]

I think both sides have had some "magical drivers" along the way and we have all heard that one is better or worse than another.

But here is what we do know for the facts from these two reviews:

Fact: 1st review twin 460 cards beat almost every ATI combination in three games.
Fact: comment was made on the dismal performance of the 5870 in BC2 and AvP, the games used in the review.
Fact: ATI came back with updated profiles first then a new driver release(at it's usual time) that specifically addressed the games in question. This was in DIRECT response to the [H] review.
Fact: in a re-do the 5870 came out on top using new profiles and drivers.....in the addressed specific games.
Fact: a $400 video card can beat a $200 video card if the drivers are correct.

All this re-do showed is that several weeks ago ATI had software that was not up to par and they corrected it to increase performance in two specific games and proved they could make their top of the line card beat a third string card.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I think both sides have had some "magical drivers" along the way and we have all heard that one is better or worse than another.

But here is what we do know for the facts from these two reviews:

Fact: 1st review twin 460 cards beat almost every ATI combination in three games.
Fact: comment was made on the dismal performance of the 5870 in BC2 and AvP, the games used in the review.
Fact: ATI came back with updated profiles first then a new driver release(at it's usual time) that specifically addressed the games in question. This was in DIRECT response to the [H] review.
Fact: in a re-do the 5870 came out on top using new profiles and drivers.....in the addressed specific games.
Fact: a $400 video card can beat a $200 video card if the drivers are correct.

All this re-do showed is that several weeks ago ATI had software that was not up to par and they corrected it to increase performance in two specific games and proved they could make their top of the line card beat a third string card.

QFP ^^ (Quoted for Profoundness)

 

[magoo]

QFP ^^ (Quoted for Profoundness)

To show how "un-profound" I am, I posted this in the 5850 thread instead of the 5870 thread......doh.

 

[kllrnohj]

Nvidia does better single or dual drivers and that's a fact.

For it to be a fact you have to be able to prove it. You cannot, and it isn't a fact.

Everything from game support to just simple support for multi monitor, nv surround is easier to setup, the fact that they actually have a 3d solution.

Support for multi-monitor? I've been using that without any problems with ATI since the 9700 Pro - wtf are you talking about?

NV Surround is easier to setup? Nope.

I truly find AMD’s setup process a bit easier in the software.

They have a 3D solution? ATI does, too. The difference is ATI has a solution for 3rd parties to make a product whereas Nvidia makes the product itself.

Limited bezel correction options, and in general their drivers allow for alot less flexibility.

Pray tell, what bezel correction options does NV surround have that Eyefinity doesn't? They both allow you to setup bezel correction, they both do the exact same goddamn thing.

Not to mention that AMD has destroyed performance in several games and it took them 4 driver releases and hardocp to help them get it fixed.

Only for Crossfire. Single card users have had no such problems.

Nvidia customers sleep better at night because of this stuff. I've never had a nvidia driver kill one of my nvidia cards, here or at work, nor has anyone that I know personally. Not saying it didn't happen but that's my experience.

I sleep pretty damn well at night, thank you very much.

In my experience, I have had countless BSODs from Nvidia's drivers (during their year of completely shitty Vista drivers), and *ZERO* problems from ATI's.

Like I said, despite your fanboyish rantings, you can't definitively claim that one company has better drivers than the other. In fact, Nvidia was responsible for far more BSODs than ATI during the Vista days - I guess that means it is a FACT that ATI has better drivers, right?

Every time a new Cat is available there is a thread here and in many other forums of people scared to install it asking, how is performance on xyz game? What does this driver break. You can dispute the facts. Anyone who states this isn't the case simply hasn't tried nvidia products enough and simply doesn't know what they are talking about. FYI I have several AMD cards in my wife and sons rigs due to aggressive pricing and in general them being good deals. I set them up myself so I have not only hands on experience but deal with both on a daily basis

The exact. same. thing. happens when Nvidia releases a driver. The *only* difference is that ATI releases more often, thus those threads appear more often.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

For it to be a fact you have to be able to prove it. You cannot, and it isn't a fact.

Neither one of us are going to be able to prove anything about this we can only use our experience to speak to this. I have experience with both products and their drivers and can't believe anyone but a total fanboy or someone who has never learned nvidia's interface would like their drivers better. Again driver are more than game support. AMD has improved their game support over the most recent 2 gens of their cards but not as well as nvidia has always done. perfect example the crossfire issues plaguing 5850 and 5870 dual card owners now. After AMD's best efforts they beat a 3rd tier nvidia product. Congrats

Support for multi-monitor? I've been using that without any problems with ATI since the 9700 Pro - wtf are you talking about?

They both support multi monitor, nivdia has better options and a more intuitive multi monitor setup. Always have. I used to support AMD cards back when they were ATI and they were a pain in the ass to troubleshoot and people were frustrated to no end with them. Granted their Noobs but that's who drivers are supposed to cater to primarily.

NV Surround is easier to setup? Nope.

It may require a click or 2 extra but it works better, outperforms amd and offer 3d while in surround. AMD started the tech and now nvidia has made it even better. Again better drivers

They have a 3D solution? ATI does, too. The difference is ATI has a solution for 3rd parties to make a product whereas Nvidia makes the product itself.

Yeah a solution noone wants to touch because who wants to mess with those drivers. They need to get off their ass and make it happen for their customers, nvidia feels they're worth it amd doesn't appear to Meanwhile everyone waiting for a 3d solution from amd have jumped ship to enjoy stereoscopic gaming. Better drivers starting to notice a theme here

Pray tell, what bezel correction options does NV surround have that Eyefinity doesn't? They both allow you to setup bezel correction, they both do the exact same goddamn thing.

Nvidia allows for custom bezel correction meaning if one of your 3 monitors is a different model and has a different edid you can fix that screen to match with the others. AMD does not, there are people pissed on this forum about that, several have jumped ship to nvidia. Hey... gues what... better drivers!!

Only for Crossfire. Single card users have had no such problems.

Single card drivers for gaming are much easier to support especially when your doing it monthly. Something that will show your true grit and coding prowess is to support single and dual cards and dual card surround and dual card surround with stereoscopic 3d for gaming and non gaming all of which nvidia does better. what a shock... Better drivers.

I sleep pretty damn well at night, thank you very much.

Good for you, ignorance is bliss, fanboyism is forever

In my experience, I have had countless BSODs from Nvidia's drivers (during their year of completely shitty Vista drivers), and *ZERO* problems from ATI's.

Nvidia had problems with vista, so did many, vista sucked, and everybody knows that however you'll probably quote something off the net saying how it was the best most stable os of all time. Most nvidia crashes in vista were due to nforce chipset issues and overclocking FYI, and there were so many more crashes as well because nvidia had a bigger chunk of the market at that time. from 8800GTX to the 5000 series nvidia was on top. AMD has made a great comeback. BTW I know nvidia had driver problems with vista that was due to bad coding, I'm sure amd did too.

Like I said, despite your fanboyish rantings, you can't definitively claim that one company has better drivers than the other. In fact, Nvidia was responsible for far more BSODs than ATI during the Vista days - I guess that means it is a FACT that ATI has better drivers, right?

See above quoted response, but I forgot to mention before. Better Drivers!!

The exact. same. thing. happens when Nvidia releases a driver. The *only* difference is that ATI releases more often, thus those threads appear more often.

No the exact same thing doesn't happen. I know amd releases monthly and nvidia doesn't but the tone on the threads are positive when nvidia releases it and you can cut the tention with a knife on the threads where amd releases a new catalyst. again better drivers, Sweet dreams

 

[kllrnohj]

Neither one of us are going to be able to prove anything about this we can only use our experience to speak to this. I have experience with both products and their drivers and can't believe anyone but a total fanboy or someone who has never learned nvidia's interface would like their drivers better. Again driver are more than game support. AMD has improved their game support over the most recent 2 gens of their cards but not as well as nvidia has always done. perfect example the crossfire issues plaguing 5850 and 5870 dual card owners now. After AMD's best efforts they beat a 3rd tier nvidia product. Congrats

Yes, everyone knows Crossfire has problems, is that your *ONLY* defense to your claim that Nvidia has better drivers than AMD? If so, that's just weak. SLI/CF is a tiny, tiny percentage of even the enthusiast market, I couldn't give a shit. I don't want to deal with mult-gpu crap from either side.

They both support multi monitor, nivdia has better options and a more intuitive multi monitor setup. Always have. I used to support AMD cards back when they were ATI and they were a pain in the ass to troubleshoot and people were frustrated to no end with them. Granted their Noobs but that's who drivers are supposed to cater to primarily.

More intuitive multi monitor setup? No it isn't - it is the *exact* same thing as AMD's, even moreso if you go the easier and faster route of just using the Windows control panel to set it up

It may require a click or 2 extra but it works better, outperforms amd and offer 3d while in surround. AMD started the tech and now nvidia has made it even better. Again better drivers

"works better"? How? In what way? It is literally the exact same goddamn thing. They are completely identical

"outperforms amd"? Only because SLI outperforms CF for the high end cards. Go look at, say, 5770 CF vs. GTS 450 SLI at triple monitor resolutions. Guess which one wins? *gasp* the 5770! zomg!

"offer 3d while in surround"? Fyi, Eyefinity+3D was working before NV Surround even existed.

Yeah a solution noone wants to touch because who wants to mess with those drivers. They need to get off their ass and make it happen for their customers, nvidia feels they're worth it amd doesn't appear to Meanwhile everyone waiting for a 3d solution from amd have jumped ship to enjoy stereoscopic gaming. Better drivers starting to notice a theme here

The theme is you are really reaching and coming up with all sorts of ridiculous claims to support your "better driver" bullshit.

There *ARE* companies using AMD's 3D support. Hell, HP will be releasing the Envy 17 laptop using AMD's 3D. This also only matters if you want to run 3D at all - and really has nothing to do with the drivers at all.

Nvidia allows for custom bezel correction meaning if one of your 3 monitors is a different model and has a different edid you can fix that screen to match with the others. AMD does not, there are people pissed on this forum about that, several have jumped ship to nvidia. Hey... gues what... better drivers!!

Really? http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1529380

Looks like it needs 3 identical monitors to work at all, much less do bezel management on.

But that aside, everything I've read indicates that NV Surround is *MORE* picky about whether or not it'll let you do bezel correction, not less.

So again, not better - really still the exact same.

Single card drivers for gaming are much easier to support especially when your doing it monthly. Something that will show your true grit and coding prowess is to support single and dual cards and dual card surround and dual card surround with stereoscopic 3d for gaming and non gaming all of which nvidia does better. what a shock... Better drivers.

Uh... what? Clearly you aren't developer - shorter release cycles are much, MUCH harder to support. And FYI, AMD supports everything you just listed as well, so why is that evidence of Nvidia having better drivers?

Besides, a *REAL* test of driver skill is allowing different card types to crossfire/sli. AMD lets you CF a 5850 and a 5870, Nvidia doesn't let you do anything like that. Clearly AMD's drivers are better, 'cause they are more flexible

Nvidia had problems with vista, so did many, vista sucked, and everybody knows that however you'll probably quote something off the net saying how it was the best most stable os of all time. Most nvidia crashes in vista were due to nforce chipset issues and overclocking FYI, and there were so many more crashes as well because nvidia had a bigger chunk of the market at that time. from 8800GTX to the 5000 series nvidia was on top. AMD has made a great comeback. BTW I know nvidia had driver problems with vista that was due to bad coding, I'm sure amd did too.

Right, it was due to Nvidia's shitty drivers that it was crashing. The rough Vista launch was due to horrible 3rd party driver support (with Nvidia leading the charge for biggest flaming piece of shit), not Vista itself.

No the exact same thing doesn't happen. I know amd releases monthly and nvidia doesn't but the tone on the threads are positive when nvidia releases it and you can cut the tention with a knife on the threads where amd releases a new catalyst. again better drivers, Sweet dreams

Yes, actually, the exact same thing does happen. Heck, go read the new driver thread on the subfora right now: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1546913

Let's see, we've got one guy who can't install, one who can't get NV Surround to stop BSODing (lol), same guy can't even get the control panel to open without BSODing (lol x2), there are issues with BFBC2 in DX9 (what's that about better game support again?), stuttering and downclocking in game, another guy complaining about a broken control panel (seriously? How does the control panel being broken pass Nvidia's amazing QA? ), Crysis Warhead blanks frequently before hard crashing along with poor framerate, on guy saying Surround disappeared completely, etc...

So yes, exact same thing as when ATI releases a new driver.

Also, more people are using the 5xxx series than are using Fermi, so of course there will be more complaining about AMD's issues than Nvidia's issues.

 

[bloop]

hey man you guys are some posting ass motherfuckers.



but while we are on the subject i would have to say 5850 cf, tho not by much.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Yes, everyone knows Crossfire has problems, is that your *ONLY* defense to your claim that Nvidia has better drivers than AMD? If so, that's just weak. SLI/CF is a tiny, tiny percentage of even the enthusiast market, I couldn't give a shit. I don't want to deal with mult-gpu crap from either side.



More intuitive multi monitor setup? No it isn't - it is the *exact* same thing as AMD's, even moreso if you go the easier and faster route of just using the Windows control panel to set it up



"works better"? How? In what way? It is literally the exact same goddamn thing. They are completely identical

"outperforms amd"? Only because SLI outperforms CF for the high end cards. Go look at, say, 5770 CF vs. GTS 450 SLI at triple monitor resolutions. Guess which one wins? *gasp* the 5770! zomg!

"offer 3d while in surround"? Fyi, Eyefinity+3D was working before NV Surround even existed.



The theme is you are really reaching and coming up with all sorts of ridiculous claims to support your "better driver" bullshit.

There *ARE* companies using AMD's 3D support. Hell, HP will be releasing the Envy 17 laptop using AMD's 3D. This also only matters if you want to run 3D at all - and really has nothing to do with the drivers at all.



Really? http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1529380

Looks like it needs 3 identical monitors to work at all, much less do bezel management on.

But that aside, everything I've read indicates that NV Surround is *MORE* picky about whether or not it'll let you do bezel correction, not less.

So again, not better - really still the exact same.



Uh... what? Clearly you aren't developer - shorter release cycles are much, MUCH harder to support. And FYI, AMD supports everything you just listed as well, so why is that evidence of Nvidia having better drivers?

Besides, a *REAL* test of driver skill is allowing different card types to crossfire/sli. AMD lets you CF a 5850 and a 5870, Nvidia doesn't let you do anything like that. Clearly AMD's drivers are better, 'cause they are more flexible



Right, it was due to Nvidia's shitty drivers that it was crashing. The rough Vista launch was due to horrible 3rd party driver support (with Nvidia leading the charge for biggest flaming piece of shit), not Vista itself.



Yes, actually, the exact same thing does happen. Heck, go read the new driver thread on the subfora right now: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1546913

Let's see, we've got one guy who can't install, one who can't get NV Surround to stop BSODing (lol), same guy can't even get the control panel to open without BSODing (lol x2), there are issues with BFBC2 in DX9 (what's that about better game support again?), stuttering and downclocking in game, another guy complaining about a broken control panel (seriously? How does the control panel being broken pass Nvidia's amazing QA? ), Crysis Warhead blanks frequently before hard crashing along with poor framerate, on guy saying Surround disappeared completely, etc...

So yes, exact same thing as when ATI releases a new driver.

Also, more people are using the 5xxx series than are using Fermi, so of course there will be more complaining about AMD's issues than Nvidia's issues.

Lets agree to disagree, my last post sums it up better than this current post. I feel it was a step backwards for you.

I'll simply post these links for your reference

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1547329

Post 2 sums things up quite well funny even (lol)

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1548144

This one is up right now.

 

[Revdarian]

Heya, long time lurker, no real brand loyalty since in my country you have to use whatever you can find pretty much and i have to chime in and agree that even on single cards the green team has better drivers.

Currently using a 5670 HD on this comp, was hard as hell to get it to work since ATi did fiddle with the PCIe compatibility of the 5000's series, which meant that i had to hunt down a specific beta bios for my mobo, and actually it requires the same for many other mobos.

I love the card for my needs, but i must say that on a 2008 game the 10.9 did add a very interesting bug. On Simon The Sorcerer 5 all i see are the borders of the cell shaded 3d objects, with the objects themselves being transparent.

These kinds of shenanigans have been standard fare to me when dealing with the red team all the way since the 8500. Same with my friends, and that is also why even though nvidia cards are sold at higher expense, they are usually sold out in no time.

ATi's hardware is awesome, but they really cut corners on their drivers.

 

[magoo]

Support for multi-monitor? I've been using that without any problems with ATI since the 9700 Pro - wtf are you talking about?

NV Surround is easier to setup? Nope.

That Sir is bullshizzle, plain and simple.
I have BOTH multimonitor systems running right now, ATIs with 5870 E6s and nvidia 2D Surround with GTX 260s, soon to be 480s.

Yes both work......but nvidia's has been easier right out of the gate.....and yes nvidia does have custom bezel correction to account for differences in bezel width. ATI has the yellow triangle, both work. That said ATI has nothing that states you need to set custom resolutions for bezel correction to work, you have to learn that from reading reviews on-line. nvidia has a box that pops up as you are finishing telling you how to configure the resolutions.

My ATI EyeFinity has been fine. It works. That said, working with the software has been frustrating on ocasssion. It refuses to stay adjusted and I have never been able to properly put the screens in "order" like I'd like them...the little blue screen go where-ever they feel like it,and the asterics that identifies the primary screen refuses to move. Nvidia uses a "1-2-3" approach that just works, every time........that and there is NO support from ATI at all. You cannot place a support ticket anymore that I can find.
nvidia on the other hand has answered my questions via support ticket in less than 24 hours.

Like I said....I have both systems. I like them both. They both work, but in this case, nvidia's work better......that and I can get gameplay from a two+ year old GTX 260 pair that rivals my Crossfired 5870 E6s and has obviously good scaling. The "backwards compatibility" that nvidia has shown with the 200 series is an exceptionally good bargain by the way. Something ATI has refused to attempt.

 

[mafa]

Yup, thats my point. The 5850 should be at or just under 470 in multicard performance. However that is not nearly the case. Overclocked 470s would destroy 5850 OC crossfire and then river dance on it's dead bodies. Yet this is acceptable. The 5850s have come down in price alot lately, however that doesn't tell the true story where just 2 months ago they were much more expensive and the majority here who bought a pair for much more are getting much less.

Now everybody is excited and speculating about the new amd 67xx/68xx series and its new architecture, telling people to wait for it that it should perform this way and that way when in truth they know the architecture sounds cool but nothing about how amd will optimize the trivers. Nobody is perfect when it comes to drivers but AMD leaves alot to be desired in that department. I'd be excited if I was a single card user but going from dual 5870 to dual 6870 wouldn't be as exciting to me if they dont fix their driver and game performance issues asap.

BTW To me fixed is when a pair of 5850s outclassed a GTX 460 SLi pair and begins to trade blows with GTX 470 Sli. It's acceptable to lose a few more benches against 470 SLi due to 470 coming out 6 months later but seriously.

BTW good point about how the 460 oc used came overclocked and HardOCP overclocked the 5850 in order to be fair as supposed to buying an overclocked card. Overclocking the 5850 changed the price/performance ratio further in AMD's favor so I'd say add an additional $10-15 for the price of the AMD 5850 in order to buy an overclocked model at or around these frequencies.

BTW

There is a lot of stupidity in this post,
1st, 470 or SLI performance are exagerrated by your mouth.

2nd, 5850 have not dropped much in price

3rd, most important,
Learn to think: the fermi cards are trying to catch up, the 5800 cards have been on market long before them, there is so such thing as "should be" for products that had no competitors .

 

[mafa]

I can tell you this I do know people that still uses catalyst 10.5a because they work better. thats drivers from May/June. I don't recall having issues using "lastest" stable drivers from nvidia or being forced to rollback to 4 months old drivers.

Thats why the newest "offcial" driver on nvidia website is 2010.07.19 and has to throw countless beta crap to your face.

That is a way to shift responsibility, it is like "wow you have problem with our drivers? too bad, well that is beta, suck it on move on!"

it works in tricking some people with less than average IQ to believe nvidia has "superior driver". Thats sad.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

There is a lot of stupidity in this post,
1st, 470 or SLI performance are exagerrated by your mouth.

No they are not exaggerated by my mouth. Learn to spell too, or at least use the built in spelling editor on the forum. hint-if there is a red underline on the word it is probably misspelled. Everything as I said is 100% correct and accurate. Look up any real world review with the newest drivers and compare 470SLi to 5850 crossfire.

2nd, 5850 have not dropped much in price

At the time of the first article the 5850 was $369.99 and that was the cheap palit card that comes at stock, other cards were $389.99. Now on newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...cription=5850&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20 you can find the card for $335 after Mail in rebate. Overclocked cards can be had for $359.99 as you can see on the second card in the list.

3rd, most important,
Learn to think: the fermi cards are trying to catch up, the 5800 cards have been on market long before them, there is so such thing as "should be" for products that had no competitors .

I know how to think better than you can and I obviously can spell better than you too There is a should be. Are you seriously implying that AMD should not offer better dual card drivers for their customers so that their dual 5850s costing over $520.00 should compare to nvidia's cards in the same price bracket. So because your cards came earlier it's okay for their multi card driver performance to suck.

In the real mafia you'd get whacked for a comment like that. Cement shoes for ya. Sleepin with the fishies. Try something else nub

 

[Revdarian]

Sighs, those of us who jump from side to side do prefer the green team drivers due to our empirical findings.

Good trolling but again, even at the start of this thread people were already joking about what was broken on these 10.9 drivers, and i added an "obscure" game, Simon The Sorcerer 5 and the "silhouette" only mode.

And btw it takes less than average IQ to think that more of a regular to iffy quality thing is better than something that just works (the "just works" approach is also why so many people are using atm apple products, that is widely known)


EDITTING TO ADD A PICTURE
Here it is a picture of what i mean by "Silhouette" only mode, which makes the game pretty much unplayable:
http://es.tinypic.com/r/2ip6ja/7

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Thats why the newest "offcial" driver on nvidia website is 2010.07.19 and has to throw countless beta crap to your face.

That is a way to shift responsibility, it is like "wow you have problem with our drivers? too bad, well that is beta, suck it on move on!"

it works in tricking some people with less than average IQ to believe nvidia has "superior driver". Thats sad.

^^ spoken like a true fanboy, How different is using beta drivers with using hotfixes?

You are so one sided it's rediculous.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

That Sir is bullshizzle, plain and simple.
I have BOTH multimonitor systems running right now, ATIs with 5870 E6s and nvidia 2D Surround with GTX 260s, soon to be 480s.

Yes both work......but nvidia's has been easier right out of the gate.....and yes nvidia does have custom bezel correction to account for differences in bezel width. ATI has the yellow triangle, both work. That said ATI has nothing that states you need to set custom resolutions for bezel correction to work, you have to learn that from reading reviews on-line. nvidia has a box that pops up as you are finishing telling you how to configure the resolutions.

My ATI EyeFinity has been fine. It works. That said, working with the software has been frustrating on ocasssion. It refuses to stay adjusted and I have never been able to properly put the screens in "order" like I'd like them...the little blue screen go where-ever they feel like it,and the asterics that identifies the primary screen refuses to move. Nvidia uses a "1-2-3" approach that just works, every time........that and there is NO support from ATI at all. You cannot place a support ticket anymore that I can find.
nvidia on the other hand has answered my questions via support ticket in less than 24 hours.

Like I said....I have both systems. I like them both. They both work, but in this case, nvidia's work better......that and I can get gameplay from a two+ year old GTX 260 pair that rivals my Crossfired 5870 E6s and has obviously good scaling. The "backwards compatibility" that nvidia has shown with the 200 series is an exceptionally good bargain by the way. Something ATI has refused to attempt.

I really think that you need to have experienced or owned both products currently to know the difference. I tried to explain that to him but he wouldn't get it. Or his bias just didn't allow him to see it. I have access to both cards in my home as well and agree with what your saying 100%. I never tried eyefinity on my wife's cards, can't afford the extra monitors at this time. anyway, I read that they didn't have custom bezel correction and even recently with the new catalyst. a few people were going to jump to nvidia and were pissed at AMD. Anyway if they fixed that in their own way at least it's a small step in the right direction.

 

[Ruckol1]

It's a pretty impressive jump over something as simple as a "bug fix", however one must wonder why the drop is there in the first place.

ATI / AMD is surely fitting the bill of the notorious drivers and software.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Tamlin WSGF, your post is full of crap. I'm not going to feed into what your trying to do. I guess somebody else might. So your stance is the drivers being better on nvidia's side is FUD. However longer than you ever posted here that has been a general consensus. Although you use the 10.9 cats, many others are still stuck at 10.4 or 10.5 because of their specific issues on their apps which by the way may not be avp or bfbc2 as they seemed to have addressed issues primarily in those games.

Thats a load of crap. The only reason you are posting your FUD is probably due to some misplaced loyalty to Nvidia or viral marketing of them. Past year, the only ones that have had serious problems with their drivers are Nvidia with their drivers of death. As mentioned, you are concerned that performance with ATI drivers might differ from release based upon this article, but you are not concerned that your Nvidia drivers will kill your cards as they have done with many driver releases past year? That shows what you really stand for. Touching though, that you are so concerned about ATI drivers for your GTX280 and how it will perform with ATI driver releases.

God, I hate you viral marketeers sometime. Do you think people still will believe you, even though large sites like [H]ardocp puts ATI cards on their recommended list even though you are full of "ATI drivers are crap" FUD? If I were to listen to you guys and didn't buy a 5870, I would have missed out of a great gaming experience with that card.

 

[Revdarian]

God, I hate you viral marketeers sometime. Do you think people still will believe you, even though large sites like [H]ardocp puts ATI cards on their recommended list even though you are full of "ATI drivers are crap" FUD?.

http://es.tinypic.com/r/2ip6ja/7


10.9 5670HD

It is real.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

http://es.tinypic.com/r/2ip6ja/7


10.9 5670HD

It is real.

Where did you get this game in English? I have been looking for it, but can't find it.
Tried the german demo and it works nicely and doesn't have the error you are showing:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1843/game2010092102534286.jpg

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Thats a load of crap. The only reason you are posting your FUD is probably due to some misplaced loyalty to Nvidia or viral marketing of them. Past year, the only ones that have had serious problems with their drivers are Nvidia with their drivers of death. As mentioned, you are concerned that performance with ATI drivers might differ from release based upon this article, but you are not concerned that your Nvidia drivers will kill your cards as they have done with many driver releases past year? That shows what you really stand for. Touching though, that you are so concerned about ATI drivers for your GTX280 and how it will perform with ATI driver releases.

AFAIK there was only one driver and only a Geforce 8/9 cards like 8800/9800 GX2 were affected. No I'm not concerned about that as it was only one driver and they pulled it from their website. Show me a link where it happened with it confirming that it was with more than 1 driver. The reason I'm concerned with ATI drivers is because as long as their drivers are shit it affects the entire marketplace. They need to get their game up so that prices come down for everyone across the board. So Yes things like shitty drivers for their customers pisses me off because I have ATI boards in my home. I don't play games with them but my wife and son do. And luckily not anything mainstream because, unfortunately I'm the only tech here so I'd be stuck dealing with the shit.

I'm neutral. Your just a troll, and full of shit. Your initial comment was made to lure people in to a link and flame war.

ardocp puts ATI cards on their recommended list even though you are full of "ATI drivers are crap" FUD? If I were to listen to you guys and didn't buy a 5870, I would have missed out of a great gaming experience with that card.

I'm no viral marketer, I wouldn't be caught dead doing a shitty job like that. And no ATI's drivers are not crap. They aren't as good as nvidia's but that doesn't make them crap. Their multi-card drivers are crap for 5800/5900 series. 5700 series scale wall. I've stated that before. Glad you enjoyed your 5870, good thing you didn't buy 2

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

AFAIK there was only one driver and only a Geforce 8/9 cards like 8800/9800 GX2 were affected. No I'm not concerned about that as it was only one driver and they pulled it from their website. Show me a link where it happened with it confirming that it was with more than 1 driver. The reason I'm concerned with ATI drivers is because as long as their drivers are shit it affects the entire marketplace. They need to get their game up so that prices come down for everyone across the board. So Yes things like shitty drivers for their customers pisses me off because I have ATI boards in my home. I don't play games with them but my wife and son do. And luckily not anything mainstream because, unfortunately I'm the only tech here so I'd be stuck dealing with the shit.

I'm neutral. Your just a troll, and full of shit. Your initial comment was made to lure people in to a link and flame war.

Right, my comment was to turn this into a flamewar? You have kept up this threadcrapping since the original GTX vs. HD58 reviews and continued in every 460 vs. 58XX review from [H]. Your the fucking troll here and many others react upon your trolling.

People are running stable setups with ATI cards here and don't recognize themselves in the crap you are spreading. Perhaps you should stop troubleshooting your computer (if you even have an ATI card) and start looking in the mirror for the errors you are having?

I wrote 2-3 drivers from Nvidia that have killed cards. The reason is that 195.62 didn't have as much reports as the others (though still was considered a card killer among many). Here's links to the two others:

191.07:
http://www.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115309

and 196.75:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/nvidia-pulls-196-75-driver-amid-reports-its-frying-graphics-car/

I'm no viral marketer, I wouldn't be caught dead doing a shitty job like that. And no ATI's drivers are not crap. They aren't as good as nvidia's but that doesn't make them crap. Their multi-card drivers are crap for 5800/5900 series. 5700 series scale wall. I've stated that before. Glad you enjoyed your 5870, good thing you didn't buy 2

Right, you only do the thread crapping out of the kindness of your heart. Ah, so you don't find ATI drivers to be crap, only shit as you said in quote above. Sorry to have missed that little shade of difference....

 

[kllrnohj]

I really think that you need to have experienced or owned both products currently to know the difference. I tried to explain that to him but he wouldn't get it. Or his bias just didn't allow him to see it. I have access to both cards in my home as well and agree with what your saying 100%. I never tried eyefinity on my wife's cards, can't afford the extra monitors at this time. anyway, I read that they didn't have custom bezel correction and even recently with the new catalyst. a few people were going to jump to nvidia and were pissed at AMD. Anyway if they fixed that in their own way at least it's a small step in the right direction.

So your problem with ATI's drivers is that:

1) You don't actually use them, and are thus pulling shit out your ass, and:

2) Have no fucking clue what they do and don't do?

FYI, Eyefinity users have been running bezel correction *before NV Surround even came out*.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

So your problem with ATI's drivers is that:

1) You don't actually use them, and are thus pulling shit out your ass, and:

2) Have no fucking clue what they do and don't do?

FYI, Eyefinity users have been running bezel correction *before NV Surround even came out*.

Get a clue, I have AMD cards but I don't use them. They are in my wife's comp and sons comp. My system has nvidia 280 as you know. I use this system. I've used and occasionally use my wifes system to update drivers etc.. she doesn't run eyefinity so I was commenting based on posts from other amd users who complained about their lack of custom bezel correction

 

[Lord_Exodia]

Right, my comment was to turn this into a flamewar? You have kept up this threadcrapping since the original GTX vs. HD58 reviews and continued in every 460 vs. 58XX review from [H]. Your the fucking troll here and many others react upon your trolling.

People are running stable setups with ATI cards here and don't recognize themselves in the crap you are spreading. Perhaps you should stop troubleshooting your computer (if you even have an ATI card) and start looking in the mirror for the errors you are having?

I wrote 2-3 drivers from Nvidia that have killed cards. The reason is that 195.62 didn't have as much reports as the others (though still was considered a card killer among many). Here's links to the two others:

191.07:
http://www.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115309

and 196.75:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/nvidia-pulls-196-75-driver-amid-reports-its-frying-graphics-car/



Right, you only do the thread crapping out of the kindness of your heart. Ah, so you don't find ATI drivers to be crap, only shit as you said in quote above. Sorry to have missed that little shade of difference....

I'm not the one thread crapping you were. In the beginning with that comment I originally quoted you on. This thread was fine until you got here and started your trolling

 

[FrgMstr]

Get back on topic.

 

[Revdarian]

Btw, did you join 3 forums in August just to talk crap about ATI in the [H] 460SLI/5850CFX review threads on other forums?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Revdarian+nvidia

Did AEG start up again?

If you notice, i joined to find the stupid beta bios REQUIRED by ATi's series 5000 like i stated here.

And like you can see on Ars Technica and Twektown forums.

Editting:
NVM Thx for the PM, sent you the info there but just in case for anyone else:
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SIMON5/simon-the-sorcerer-5-whod-even-want-contact => the game has to be bought online and downloaded directly, you won't find it in a store per se.
Support is pretty much non existant, but at the current price of 5$ honestly you can't blame them, hope you guys have fun with it.
The issue is with antialiasing, whenever i try to activate the bug crops (that is after a full reinstall, so it is playable just turning off AA now)



EDITED:

On topic, i do recommend the 5850 if it can be found @ same prices or close enough to a 460, single card the problems are few enough and inobtrusive enough to be dealable with, and the missed features of CUDA and PhysX aren't noteworthy (Specially with the tax implied by PhysX unless you use another card as a proxy, and that can be done with ATi and certain drivers anyways).