NSA Intercepted Webcam Images Of Millions Of Yahoo Users

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Why would the GCHQ and the NSA target Yahoo users? Do criminal masterminds all have Yahoo accounts or is it just because Yahoo has lame security?

GCHQ files dating between 2008 and 2010 explicitly state that a surveillance program codenamed Optic Nerve collected still images of Yahoo webcam chats in bulk and saved them to agency databases, regardless of whether individual users were an intelligence target or not. In one six-month period in 2008 alone, the agency collected webcam imagery – including substantial quantities of sexually explicit communications – from more than 1.8 million Yahoo user accounts globally.
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How many programs are they monitoring? This is actually very impressive.
 
Damn! The book 1984 was 30 years off, but not by much.

The Terrorists won in part. We gave up our freedoms for the sake of stopping Terrorism.

Sad Sad Sad.

Ben Franklin - “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
 
To be fair, the article says Britain captured the images. The NSA only showed them how.
 
I can hear that stupid chant, "I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't have anything to worry about." No, but your friends and family members might. Wave bye-bye to them as they get carted off to prison on insane arcane laws you never knew existed.
 
Rather than collecting webcam chats in their entirety, the program saved one image every five minutes from the users' feeds, partly to comply with human rights legislation,
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See guys, it's ok since they did one image every 5 minutes. :rolleyes:

Article says they don't have the systems to do it in UK, so the NSA did it and the other agency accessed the data (from what I gather). So, what's the argument this time? Since the UK allows it, the NSA will get the data and spy on people (including American citizens) because they aren't the ones using the data? How do you defend that?
 
amddragonpc said:
I can hear that stupid chant, "I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't have anything to worry about." No, but your friends and family members might. Wave bye-bye to them as they get carted off to prison on insane arcane laws you never knew existed.
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I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not worried about anything. THEY are doing something wrong. And they are caught doing it. People got laws passed to allow it, and they are taking full advantage of it.

I could be doing nothing wrong, watching my TV and drinking a beer. Still doesn't mean that having a camera watching me is ok.

Yea, I fully expect to hear the argument as well. "Why are you against it? You have something to hide?".
 
So somewhere there's some super smart nerdy NSA agent whacking off a storm from all the sexting (or whatever the yahoo video equivalent name is)
 
sfsuphysics said:
So somewhere there's some super smart nerdy NSA agent whacking off a storm from all the sexting (or whatever the yahoo video equivalent name is)
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That's why you rarely hear of Snowden anymore.... He's been busy.
 
I don't want to get into yet another NSA argument here, but you all do realize there have been people tapping/recording communications since they were invented. The things happening have already been found out and discussed over the years. Start with a program called Carnivore and work backwards. Nothing new to see here. Everyone acts all shocked. I also must say that our NSA isn't the only American institution that collects data. Nor is the NSA unique in the world collecting data like this, on this scale and level, but they seem to be unique at getting blamed for it the most. Also one more thing, someone should come up with some man-hour numbers to see what it would take to view all of the NSA's captured material so we could/should know how many people it would take to view this information 8/5/365.
 
If our government is bound from committing an act by law, or by morality, they use one of four tactics.

1)They do it anyway, in a black program, and deny it ('cause fuck you)
2)They get a private contractor to gleefully do it ('cause FOIA don't apply, and yeah! profit!)
3)They get a foreign government to do it ('cause they want to keep their hands clean)
4)Order a "patriotic" solder or LEO to do it. ('cause just following orders)
 
yea, i'm pretty sure some evil terrorist camel herder in the middle of nowhere uses yahoo and posts his entire life on google+
 
ob1 said:
I don't want to get into yet another NSA argument here, but you all do realize there have been people tapping/recording communications since they were invented. The things happening have already been found out and discussed over the years. Start with a program called Carnivore and work backwards. Nothing new to see here. Everyone acts all shocked. I also must say that our NSA isn't the only American institution that collects data. Nor is the NSA unique in the world collecting data like this, on this scale and level, but they seem to be unique at getting blamed for it the most. Also one more thing, someone should come up with some man-hour numbers to see what it would take to view all of the NSA's captured material so we could/should know how many people it would take to view this information 8/5/365.
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Now it's legal and it's not just a black box. It's out in the open and not just some 'leak' or conspiracy theory. They admit to it, and are fine with it. Before, it wasn't publicized. They got away with it because there was no real proof. Now, it's just going on and they act like no one cares.
 
Again, the Guardian is willing to release information about intelligence Agency tactics without any cause to believe the tactics are being misused. Americans and Brits are not the only people that use Yahoo.
 
ob1 said:
I don't want to get into yet another NSA argument here, but you all do realize there have been people tapping/recording communications since they were invented. The things happening have already been found out and discussed over the years. Start with a program called Carnivore and work backwards. Nothing new to see here. Everyone acts all shocked. I also must say that our NSA isn't the only American institution that collects data. Nor is the NSA unique in the world collecting data like this, on this scale and level, but they seem to be unique at getting blamed for it the most. Also one more thing, someone should come up with some man-hour numbers to see what it would take to view all of the NSA's captured material so we could/should know how many people it would take to view this information 8/5/365.
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a) it has never been done on such a scale. before, all they could do, even with their incredible resources, was pinpoint a target and focus on a limited number at once. now, computers are getting powerful enough to surveil absolutely everything and some of it even in real time.

b) you're assuming people are retarded and don't understand that this has been done before for a long time. yes, everyone knows that, but it doesn't make it a good thing *especially* if you consider a). what will that combo do? in any case these tools are a totalitarian's regime wet dream and such power over people will corrupt even the most benevolent elites (i pretty much divided by zero by writing that).

therefore this discussion *should* and *must* take place before things are fucked beyond repair. extrapolate what can be done with these tools or think of what *you* could do with those tools. i'm pretty sure that you'd come up with some nasty ideas within minutes. it's safe to assume that more corrupt people would have the same ideas and no regret about implementing those. most people wouldn't want that.
 
someone should come up with some man-hour numbers to see what it would take to view all of the NSA's captured material so we could/should know how many people it would take to view this information 8/5/365.
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You have an incorrect idea that anyone is viewing anything, that's not what is going on. There are not legions of analysts sorting through all this stuff. That kind of approach is horribly inefficient as you yourself seem to understand yet still imagine running down that stretch of bad road you know is bad.

You want to know what they are doing with these images, read up on the Biometrics Analytic Toolset and the Hand-Held Identification Device, BAT and HIDE, then re-address this article.

Here, I'll point you in the right direction.
http://asc.army.mil/docs/pubs/alt/2010/2_AprMayJun/articles/14_DOD_Biometrics--Lifting_the_Veil_of_Insurgent_Identity_201002.pdf
 
Ur_Mom said:
Now it's legal and it's not just a black box. It's out in the open and not just some 'leak' or conspiracy theory. They admit to it, and are fine with it. Before, it wasn't publicized. They got away with it because there was no real proof. Now, it's just going on and they act like no one cares.
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This is just not true. Most of these stories hit various news programs with proof during their various flare-ups. I recall 2006, 2003, 1995 and 1989 as such occurrences. While some of the organizations that collected the data had clandestine handles not all of them were kept secret for very long. There are too many people in the loop to keep the secrets like people think. What happened back then, prior to say 2000, there just wasn't enough world discussion, as news tended to be more specific to your area.

BTW, to those that think I am fine with what is done with the data, I never said that. What I was saying is this has been known and bitched about since I have been alive and that's damn close to 50 years now. If this is your first time hearing of it, means you are either young or never paid attention or cared.
 
Gee, looks like I posted in the forum.

Why don't the government just go ahead and implant us already, I'm sure we have tech ready for it.
1 still pic out of every 5 minutes? Lol, must be why they're building a larger center.
 
lcpiper said:
You have an incorrect idea that anyone is viewing anything, that's not what is going on. There are not legions of analysts sorting through all this stuff. That kind of approach is horribly inefficient as you yourself seem to understand yet still imagine running down that stretch of bad road you know is bad.

You want to know what they are doing with these images, read up on the Biometrics Analytic Toolset and the Hand-Held Identification Device, BAT and HIDE, then re-address this article.

Here, I'll point you in the right direction.
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I was being facetious.
 
If our government is bound from committing an act by law, or by morality, they use one of four tactics.

1)They do it anyway, in a black program, and deny it ('cause fuck you)
2)They get a private contractor to gleefully do it ('cause FOIA don't apply, and yeah! profit!)
3)They get a foreign government to do it ('cause they want to keep their hands clean)
4)Order a "patriotic" solder or LEO to do it. ('cause just following orders)
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Maybe in some areas, but it doesn't work like this with the NSA and SIGINT collection. Being a Contractor is no sheild from having to obey the same rules the NSA does because in order to do SIGINT you have to follow the same rules and the NSA is responsible for making that happen so it still comes back to sit in their lap. There isn't an out for this, you just pulling shit outa your ass on this one brother.
 
Does this mean that the US and British governments now have proof that all those hot female avatars in MMOs really belong to balding, fat, ugly guys?

On another note: let's say that one of these agencies intercepts two underage people cybering...Does that mean that we can now bust them for possession of child porn?
 
bucketlist said:
Gee, looks like I posted in the forum.

Why don't the government just go ahead and implant us already, I'm sure we have tech ready for it.
1 still pic out of every 5 minutes? Lol, must be why they're building a larger center.
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I'm sure they have a boob algorithm to speed up the collection.
 
lcpiper said:
Maybe in some areas, but it doesn't work like this with the NSA and SIGINT collection. Being a Contractor is no sheild from having to obey the same rules the NSA does because in order to do SIGINT you have to follow the same rules and the NSA is responsible for making that happen so it still comes back to sit in their lap. There isn't an out for this, you just pulling shit outa your ass on this one brother.
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I'd sooner believe Baghdad Bob. ;)
 
lcpiper said:
Again, the Guardian is willing to release information about intelligence Agency tactics without any cause to believe the tactics are being misused.
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The fact that it exists is evidence that it is being misused. It also states that GCHQ are having problems preventing employees from accessing the images without explicit permission and a good reason.

So inevitably they had to have taken images of underage children throughout their dragnet. Its naive to believe that only 18+ year old people would sex chat on yahoo webcams... so this database almost definitely contains some child pornography, yes?

This child porn was captured and stored from a live video stream. The person or child in front of the camera was most likely under the assumption that they were in a "private" space; they were probably under the assumption that the only person they were in view of, was the other private, familiar party at the other end of the connection (and no one in between). So they do what many humans like to do in private.

This is no different than walking down the street and seeing your 5 year old neighbor running naked thru the sprinkler in his backyard.... aka- not child porn.

A webcam session is commonly viewed by users a 'ehpemeral', meaning not 'in-the-moment', not stored; captured; logged or converted into picture or video. Yes its possible for the other user to screen grab, or the service provider to capture it, but you trusted them not to do that, of you didnt mind if it was *them* doing it... (and there are laws and ToS policies preventing service providers from doing this).
There is also substantial court precedent in the US that clearly separates merely viewing something with your own eyes, vs. actively recording or copying it (MPAA, anyone?)


So, this child pornography likely exists *only* on GCHQ servers; it was created and is viewed *only* by GCHQ employees....


If you walk down the street, see your neighbors son, naked, playing in the sprinkler in the yard, and then pull out your camera and snap a picture once every 5 minutes, are you a child pornographer?


Fuck yes you are. :eek:
 
ghost6303 said:
If you walk down the street, see your neighbors son, naked, playing in the sprinkler in the yard, and then pull out your camera and snap a picture once every 5 minutes, are you a child pornographer?


Fuck yes you are. :eek:
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Yeah, but it's alright if you don't use or look at the pictures ;)
 
RealityCrunch said:
Yeah, but it's alright if you don't use or look at the pictures ;)
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...but, they even readily admit the problems with unauthorized access to this database!

and actually, a more accurate analogy would be if you grab your camera; break past whatever security was in place preventing your access to that child; hide in the bushes undetected, and then snap a picture of the kid every 5 minutes.

usually when you get caught doing such things, you get your name put on a list and have to notify your neighbors every time you move.

:rolleyes:
 
On another note: let's say that one of these agencies intercepts two underage people cybering...Does that mean that we can now bust them for possession of child porn?
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Damn good question, let's work it out.

I can't say for the Brits, they weren't exactly signatories to the US Constitution.

But for the NSA, yes, I think I can answer from what I know on it.

Because the NSA can't collect on US Persons, (unless there is a warrant), then they shouldn't come across such material and if they do, it would more likely be a pair of foreigners doing the cybering. Now here is the rest of it, if they did see it because they did have a warrant then they would have a responsibility to report it to the FBI,(if they are still the ones, it might be Justice or ICE these days), and then they would have to fight with whoever is responsible to see if they are going to get busted or if the intel Mission is important enough to continue the surveillance.
mission.

Of course in this case, it's the Brits doing it and the hard part is going to convince someone that they are images captured through surveillance and not just a clever spot someone is using to hide their kiddie porn.
 
The fact that it exists is evidence that it is being misused.
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STOP, the fact that WHAT exists? No one has shown a WHAT yet, every single yahoo account could be of Chinese Nationals who are neither protected under US and British privacy laws so STOP a moment and think about what the fuck you are saying.
 
lcpiper said:
STOP, the fact that WHAT exists? No one has shown a WHAT yet, every single yahoo account could be of Chinese Nationals who are neither protected under US and British privacy laws so STOP a moment and think about what the fuck you are saying.
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Come on, dude. The US government has anything but a spotless record in anything it does. You're now really trying to get benefit of the doubt that out of two million invaded accounts, that not a single one of them is included erroneously, either intentionally or by mistake?

You're never going to get anywhere if you keep demanding that people give the Obama and Bush administrations that much credit, because they do not deserve it.
 
Its not about sifting through a mountain of data to find threats, its never been about that.

As the one time head of KGB once said "find me a man and I will find his crime"

This data is used to compile a dossier on everyone so that should you ever question the government or make a loud noise regarding corruption or powerful interest doing something wrong. They will just look you up in their database, find something they can latch onto you and shut you up.

Can we stop hearing stupid argument like "I have got nothing to hide"
 
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