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Now Detecting IDE Drives...

F

FatteyMattey

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
369
This happens periodically:

The computer shuts down while in the middle of something and wont start back up. It gets stuck on the Detecting IDE Drives screen. It doesn't even say that it can't detect them. It just sits there.

I've used different IDE cables and tried the hard drives in different orders neither works. After leaving the computer sit there off for a few hours it usually will start up just normal. Why would it work 3 hours later and not right away? What's the problem with it? Any suggestions? Thanks.
 
hard to say
Id suspect the power
test the RAM
and look for any Events that might have been saved to the log before it happens


dont you just hate it when your wishing for a BSOD? :p

youve verified the jumpers
dont have any Master with slave present when there isnt one or vice versa?
all the Masters at the end of the cable, slaves in the middle or cable select?


if a cool down period seems to "fix" it
that leads me to think power or thermal cutout on the board
monitor your temps and check the BIOS for where the shutdown is set

next time it happens
BIOS > PNP\PCI submenu > Force Update ESCD
(Extended System Configuration Data, not all BIOS have that option)
actually applies to the PNP devices but also seems to unjam any DMI Hang and forces a re-recognition of the HDDs
 
For some strange reason it just detected the drive, although the screen stopped again and gave this message at the bottom of the screen:

Primary IDE Channel No 80 Conductor Cable Installed.

Anyone know what that is?
 
And now another message right below the one I just posted:

CPU is unworkable or has been changed. Please recheck - CPU SOFT MENU.
 
FatteyMattey said:
For some strange reason it just detected the drive, although the screen stopped again and gave this message at the bottom of the screen:

Primary IDE Channel No 80 Conductor Cable Installed.

Anyone know what that is?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your asking about this one, since it's clearly explained. You need an 80 pin cable, not the old 40 cable. If you do have one on, and your still getting odd mobo errors, I would reset the CMOS. If that doesn't work, might be time to RMA the board.
 
dj, if for some odd reason I'm using a 40 pin cable would it still work some of the time? because the computer works part of the time and then this happens every once in a while. Maybe, if it would work sometimes, I AM using a 40 and just need an 80.
 
I've had systems that would work, albeit much slower. I've also had systems that would not pass the IDE check. So, it's tough to say.
 
please excuse if it's a dumb question, but there's 40 pins on the hard drive and 40 slots on the IDE cable..... how can I tell if i'm using an 80 or 40??
 
could it be overheating?

I had problems with my rig and after replacing the HSF it runs like a champ again.
 
FatteyMattey said:
please excuse if it's a dumb question, but there's 40 pins on the hard drive and 40 slots on the IDE cable..... how can I tell if i'm using an 80 or 40??
Click to expand...

It looks different. The cables are "thinner" than an old cable. Usually, it has blue, black, and gray plugs on it. They should have come with the motherboard and the drives.
 
FatteyMattey said:
For some strange reason it just detected the drive, although the screen stopped again and gave this message at the bottom of the screen:

Primary IDE Channel No 80 Conductor Cable Installed.

Anyone know what that is?
Click to expand...

actually youll get that message even with an 80 wire cable if the channel has defaulted to PIO mode

Start > Run > (Type) compmgmt.msc > Device Manager > Expand IDE ATA\ATAPI Controllers > Click Primary IDE Channel (or secondary if that is where ists located) > Advanced Settings Tab > Current Transfer Mode > "Should be" Ultra DMA Mode and the drop down window should read DMA if Available for both devices

From the Partitioning and Optimizing Tutorial
there is a myth about putting optical drives on the same channel as HDDs, it is just that a myth, but it keeps getting reinforced by the way Windows deals with ATA\ATAPI issues
basically with Independent Device Timing two devices (master\slave) both transfer their data at their own highest speed, but, they both either have to be PIO (which is glacially slow) or UDMA, if one defaults to PIO because of some issue, Windows will default the other as well. There was a time when CDROMs where only PIO, and HDDs where DMA, for that period of history you didnt want to share a channel, but modern opticals are UDMA mode2 so there is rarely any issue

some of the reasons a device might default to PIO
DMA Mode for ATA/ATAPI Devices in Windows XP
Click to expand...

regarding the differences between 40 and 80 wire cables
count :p they are easily recognized (the extra 40 wires are all ground wires and dont "connect" to the pins other than a ?single? ground (Id have to check)
and allow speeds faster than ATA33, thereis a huge difference in how they look with twice as many wires (that are half the diameter )
 
and as djnes pointed out youll have the tri-color connectors on the 80 wire
 
FatteyMattey said:
CPU is unworkable or has been changed. Please recheck - CPU SOFT MENU.
Click to expand...

that is a very low level error

and clear the CMOS by jumper (refer to the manual)
typically when you do that it wont want to power down via the switch and you have to turn off the PSU or pull the plug
thats going to clear your BIOS to default
then remove your CMOS Battery for 5>10 minutes (basically does the same thing)
reseat it make sure there isnt anything interfering with its contacts
and BIOS > enter setup, select defaults
and try to boot into windows

how old is this board? (Battery goin south?)
 
i'll try everything you suggested and get back to you, thanks.

Oh, and our PSU died about a month ago and we had to replace it quick with an old one that we had....a 300volt PSU, could that be the problem?
 
then it could be the battery is just loose
you ever flash a BIOS?
Think that might be the ticket considering it lost a lock on what processor you had

and while we are at it
what power supply you got?
 
Naw, I've never flashed a BIOS.
Power Supply is a: Allied 300w
It's extremely old. If memory serves it was bought in '98. We took it out of our old old computer when our new power supply fried.
 
errr....and whats it powering?
a full list please (and the full name of the mobo)

and if you can give me the amps rating
off the lable on the power supply
for the +12V, +5V & +3.3V
 
I'm starting to think this computer has mulitple problems. Perhaps a strip down and rebuild is in order? Your not going to be able to troubleshoot a clone machine unless you know exactly what's in it.
 
Issue:

CMOS checksum error.

Cause:

This issue is caused when the CMOS values are incorrect. This issue can occur because of any of the below possibilities.

Bad or old CMOS battery.
BIOS update.
Disconnecting power from computer without shutting down computer

was expected ;)

enter the BIOS and select the safe defaults verify that the CPU speed is correct or use softmenu and try to boot
 
Well, I get further than I have ever before but still no cigar.

I get to the screen where it says Verifying DMI Pool data or whatever it says, and right after i get that message it gives me a
Disk Boot Failure.

The drive is in there, and i can hear it spinning I'm just not sure why it refuses to see the drive.
 
FatteyMattey said:
please excuse if it's a dumb question, but there's 40 pins on the hard drive and 40 slots on the IDE cable..... how can I tell if i'm using an 80 or 40??
Click to expand...
there are no such things as dumb questions... unless its REALLY dumb, then thats an exception :D

if you compared a 80 wire and a 40 wire cable, you'd notice that the wires in the 80wire one is half as thin as the 40 wire ones...... the 80 wire ones are the newest and i dont know why but just use those for harddrives.. you can stick with 40wires for most cd drives, i believe...... correct me if i m wrong
 
OK download the HDD manufacturers diagnostic and run it from a floppy
also download memtest86+ and do the same (it tests the memory, and is an endless loop, let it run at least 2 loops)

both would be freeware
google memtest86+ and look in the downlioads section of the manufacturers site

access the BIOS and see if there is an option under the PNP\PCI submenu to
Force Update ESCD

got a different cable?
 
Yeah, I've used a different cable and that had no affect.

There is a Force Update ESCD option, and I've used it, that's how I got as far as I did.
When I enable that I get to the current screen and get a Disk Boot Failure.

I'll try the two programs you suggested tomorrow and get back to you. Thanks!
 
It really sounds like the BIOS is flakey. Have you tried replacing the CMOS battery? EIther that or remove it completely for about 5 mins with the power disconnected then reseat the battery and clear and reset the BIOS to the correct settings.

Replacing it completely, based on the age of the board you mentioned, would seem like the place to start.
 
might be a good idea, but considering the board is only a few months old...
Im planning on having him reflash the BIOS
but Id like to see if he has DOS access first
(and if he does, testing the HDD and Memory is easy to rule out)
 
Yeah I've tried removing the battery with the power off and sticking it back in there a while later. Didn't work.

How am I to flash the BIOS?

and I dont think I have DOS access but I'll try it and get back to ya
 
To flash the BIOS you want to boot from a bootable floppy disk that also has your flash utility and BIOS update to upload to your motherboard. You don't want to boot into DOS from the PC hard drive, not like you could if you wanted too anyway with XP.

If you don't have a boot floppy you can grab an image here
Bootdisk.com

Make sure you have the correct and most up-to date BIOS version for your specific motherboard brand/model and carefully follow the instructions on how to upload the image.

Whatever you do, DON'T interrupt the upload process for any reason once you start it, otherwise you will end up with a dead BIOS and dead motherboard. Fixing this issue is possible but very painful and is to be avoided at all costs. Use common sense and read and follow all instructions specific to the flash utility and your motherboard. If you don't quite understand come back here for clarification before you proceed. It's a fairly simple process but if you dork it up you'll be really pissed at yourself.
 
just like half an hour ago, i was reading an old edition of PC World and i read one of the letters where the guy said something about a faulty harddrive and he fixed it temprorarily long enough to save the files and he did so buy freezing the harddrive... he put the harddrive in his freezer for a while and took it out and put it into his computer and it worked for five min or so... and he repeated this till he saved all the important files

not sure if you find that helpful but i said it just incase... also good for future references ;)
 
FatteyMattey said:
nope, no dos available :)
Click to expand...


Make the boot floppy. You have to use DOS to flash most BIOS chips.

DOS is always available.

Boot floppy
Bootable CDROM
Bootable USB drive

There are always options.
 
Ravenex is correct, those test programs I had you run are DOS
(memtest86+ and the HDD Disgnostic)

how did they go?

as far as the BIOS flash goes, when you first boot up, the very first screen
which is black w\ white type, should display your current BIOS version (andd manufacturer)
you can hit the Pause button to read it, as it often goes by real fast, sometimes before the monitor even warms up from a cold boot, so a restart might be required to see it

If you could post that and the mobo you have
I'll be happy to walk you through it step by step ;)
 
Sorry for not posting this a couple days ago but things have been extremely hectic around here. If you're still up to helping me, awesome.

The information you wanted me to get is this:

Pheonix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG

If I'm reading off the right screen.

Thanks again!
 
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