Non-OC Computer Build Advice

[sphto]

I've spent a lot of time reading through the forums here (which are a fantastic source of info - thanks!), and I know there are dozens of 'build advice threads' but I haven't found anything that fits my particulars. I don't do much gaming but do intensive photo editing and management (CS2 and PS 5, as well as large databases), some video editing, and a lot of multitasking. Stability is of prime importance to me which is why I'm interested in suggestions regarding non-OC'd (at least for starters) builds.

I currently have a (very!) old Alienware system running Win2K which I've upgraded in pieces. I have looked into builds from Alienware, Dell, Maingear, CyberPower, DigitalStorm, Puget, Falcon-nw, AVA Direct and even the Gateway FX 7026 from Best Buy (great deal on hardware and nice little system - with instant gratification! - but after opening the case at BB I realized that it is pretty much 'as is,' since it is so small and cramped). I have also priced out components for doing my own build, but found that there are options that are (just about) competitive price wise and don't require the time it would take to get a nice stable system (time is something I don't have much of right now).

Like many others around I narrowed the list down to AVA and Maingear - as well as Alienware (because of discounts as a repeat customer). I can spend $11-1500 for case (meaning not including monitor, keyboards, speakers etc). I started by looking at the 8400's and have moved to the Q6600, and then the Q9300 (for speed, multitasking, possible Vista 64 etc)... Ultimately it seems AVA is the most economical so I've been looking at this Barebones System option:

ROSEWILL, R5605-BK Black Mid-Tower Case, ATX, 500W PSU, Steel
GIGABYTE, GA-P35-DS3L, LGA775, Intel P35, 1333MHz FSB, DDR2-1066 8GB /4, PCIe x16, SATA 3Gb/s /4, HDA, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
INTEL, Core™ 2 Quad Q9300 Quad-Core 2.50GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 6MB (2 x 3MB) L2 Cache, 45nm, 95W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
ARCTIC COOLING, Freezer 7 Pro Quiet CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink, Socket 775, Ceramic Bearing, Retail
G.SKILL, 4GB (2 x 2GB) PC2-6400 DDR2 800MHz CL4 (4-4-4-12) SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
WESTERN DIGITAL, 500GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD5000AAKS), SATA II 300MB/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
WESTERN DIGITAL, 500GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD5000AAKS), SATA II 300MB/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
LITE-ON, LH-20A1L Black/Beige 20x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe, SATA, Retail
ROSEWILL, RCR-102 Black 52-in-1 Card Reader/Writer Drive, 3.5" Bay, USB 2.0
ANTEC, 120mm Clear Case Fan, Blue LED
MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
WARRANTY, Assembled and Tested (1 year parts, lifetime labor warranty, priority service)
$1114.75 before shipping

I had thought I would buy a 9600GT or 8800GTvideo card separately because 1) The cards at AVA seem to be the only component with high mark ups and I could do better from Newegg etc and 2) With the new GPU's hitting the market I figured prices might go down before my build was finished.

On the other hand I could include a PALIT, GeForce® 9600GT Sonic 700MHz, 1GB GDDR3 2000MHz, PCIe x16 SLI, DVI /2, HDMI, from AVA for another $220.64. The advantage would be the total system integration and testing with the final build but I'm unconvinced this is worth it.

Would love to get general comments and suggestions on the build. Also, a few other specific questions:

1) For those who've bought from AVA before, did you buy a Barebones or a Desktop system? Given that, how has the service/product/warranty been?
2) What mobo (chipset and manufacturer) would you recommend? (I definitely need to have dual monitor support so SLI is probably out) Is there potentially a better upgrade path with some mobo's over others (ignore Nehalem for the moment)?
3) Given my use and the price, is it worth moving to the Q9450?
4) Do you think the PSU is sufficient to begin with? Long term I'll probably upgrade it, add another DVD burner, more RAM and HD's etc...
5) As for OS: I've been running 2K which I've been very happy with (and reluctant to part with). Would you recommend a move to XP Pro (32) for stability and legacy support or just biting the bullet and going to Vista (64) Home Premium (or Business?)?

I know that's a lot (especially for a lurking noob ) but I've been very impressed with the advice coming off this forum... Thanks for any help...

 

[dhc014]

If you're not going to use the computer for gaming, you would not need to get a video card as powerful as the 9600GT or the 8800GT. You might consider an AMD system with a Phenom running on a 780G motherboard for its nice integrated graphics. Intel Quads are pretty cost effective though.

 

[Kendrak]

If you're not going to use the computer for gaming, you would not need to get a video card as powerful as the 9600GT or the 8800GT. You might consider an AMD system with a Phenom running on a 780G motherboard for its nice integrated graphics. Intel Quads are pretty cost effective though.

The newer versions of PS are going to use the vid card for quicker render. So A good card is not a bad thing.

I'm still confused on this whole non OC thing though

The Q6600 is by far the best bang for buck for raw power. If you OC-ed you can take the Q6600 from a 1066 to a 1333 bus easy and it would run faster (my guess) than most any non OC-ed chip Intel has under 600 bucks.

 

[engiNURD]

Wow... if you didn't see this coming, you should've: Anyone got the cliff's notes to that?

Well, it didn't look like much to read, so I skimmed your parts list, but didn't read much before that, so forgive me if these suggestions aren't available to you...

Don't use a Rosewill PSU. They don't always use a good OEM, so just avoid them all together. Go for any Corsair PSU from buy.com instead.

If you're not OC'ing, you don't need an aftermarket cooler. If you want something quiet, the F7 Pro isn't it.

You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

The WD6400AAKS drives are noticeably faster than the WD5000AAKS drives due to their higher platter density. Get the 640GB drives instead.

Lite-On burners are LOUD. Get a Samsung SH-S203N instead.

Antec fans are teh suck. Get some Yate Loon fans from Jab-Tech.com instead. They're like $4 each, push more air than Antec fans, and are much quieter.

2) P35 or P45. P45 has PCI-E 2.0, but its not worth waiting for if you need a system right now.

3) Thats up to you. For me, no.

4) See suggestion above.

5) Thats another personal preference, IMO. It took me a while to move from 98 to 2k... then from 2k to xp... and from xp to vista. I actually still use my XP system more than Vista, lol. Vista isn't bad if you have all new, GOOD/FAST hardware, and don't have any old peripherals or software to run.

 

[AndonSage]

Would love to get general comments and suggestions on the build.

I've put this build together with parts that are recommended here on [H], like the components enginurd listed in his reply. I've included an eVGA 9600GT video card, which is less expensive than the Palit. If you don't order a video card, then of course the price will be reduced.

CUSTOM COMPUTER, Core™2 DDR2 Performance Series System: $1412.94

• COOLERMASTER, Centurion 590 Black Mid-Tower Computer Case, ATX, No PSU, SECC
• CORSAIR, CMPSU-550VX VX Series Power Supply, 550W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, SLI Ready
• GIGABYTE, GA-P35-DS3L, LGA775, Intel P35, 1333MHz FSB, DDR2-1066 8GB /4, PCIe x16, SATA 3Gb/s /4, HDA, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
• INTEL, Core™ 2 Quad Q9300 Quad-Core 2.50GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 6MB (2 x 3MB) L2 Cache, 45nm, 95W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
• G.SKILL, 4GB (2 x 2GB) PC2-6400 DDR2 800MHz CL5 (5-5-5-15) SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
• eVGA, e-GeForce 9600GT Superclocked 675MHz, 512MB GDDR3 1800MHz, PCIe x16 SLI, DVI /2, HDTV/S-Video Out, Retail
• WESTERN DIGITAL, 640GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD6400AAKS), SATA 3.0 Gbit/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
• WESTERN DIGITAL, 640GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD6400AAKS), SATA 3.0 Gbit/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
• RAID, No RAID, Independent HDD Drives
• SAMSUNG, Super-WriteMaster™ SH-S203N Black 20x DVD±R/RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe, SATA, w/ Software, OEM
• ROSEWILL, RCR-102 Black 52-in-1 Card Reader/Writer Drive, 3.5" Bay, USB 2.0
• MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
• WARRANTY, Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)

Also, a few other specific questions:

1) For those who've bought from AVA before, did you buy a Barebones or a Desktop system? Given that, how has the service/product/warranty been?

Two of my friends and my father have all purchased from AVA Direct, and they are all very happy with their computers. I ordered from AVA Direct two weeks ago, and it's almost ready to ship. You can read my thread about it here in the Computers & Gadgets section, if you are interested. I am very impressed with the service I have received so far.

The rest of the questions, enginurd answered. The above build includes a Corsair 550W PSU, which should be fine for any hard drives, etc. that you add in the future.

 

[sphto]

Thanks all for the great suggestions! Enginurd, sorry for the length (just so much goes into the decision). I appreciated all your suggestions but was curious about your saying the F7 Pro was particularly loud since I'd read the opposite in a bunch of places. Have you used it?

Also, I talked to Joe over at AVA and he strongly suggested an Antec case. AndonSage, you included the Coolermaster Centurion 590 in your example (which was one I was considering). Was there a reason? I saw you used the Antec P182 for your own build... I assume it doesn't make nearly as much difference as the PSU...

Finally, Joe also suggested OCZ memory. What's the good word on it compared to GSkill or other choices?

 

[wildfire99]

If stability is a prime concern, nix anything Rosewill and Western Digital. Nix CS3 (steaming turd). Consider an ATI 3650 instead of the nvidia cards. Consider taking the CPU down one notch and going to 8GB RAM if you work with very large images. The Freezer7 is fine (my own is *silent* using my mobo's built-in fan throtting utility -- if I let it go to full throttle, then yeah, it's mildly annoying, but i've never had to do that to get good temps), but so is the stock intel cooler. Don't get an overclocked video card unless you want to be down a year from now when it fails on you (which is why I'm running an ATI card now instead of a hot nvidia card on my own PS box). +1 on the P182, they are very serviceable and quiet, aside from some cable length issues on the power supply.

I just upgraded my RAM again but I also bumped up to CS3. Everything in that is slow and buggy now, what a waste. You could have a $15k super-rig and it still wouldn't open 10 files in less than 20 seconds, or run actions in less than 10x what they did in CS2 (on XP-SP2). I hope it runs better in Vista.

The last several hardware failures to hit my PS/PremPro box were (in order): Corsair RAM, WD HDD (raptor), Crucial RAM, Nvidia cards (two of them). The P180 is not the cooling champ unless you like adding fans, it seems, though the budget kit in the box has kept up like a champ.

 

[engiNURD]

Western Digital makes 2 of the fastest 7200RPM drives right now, and I've been using them for years without any issues. WD isn't perfect, no brand is, but they're also not notorious for failures as much as Maxtor.

The Freezer 7 Pro isn't much quieter than the stock fan if you're not OC'ing. And yes, I have one, thats why I said its not worth the extra money since you're not OC'ing.

The P180 is built for quietness. The Antec Nine Hundred is made for better cooling. The Coolermaster cases are cheaper alternatives to the Antecs, and are well made for their price.

 

[sphto]

Noted all - very good info. Any thoughts on the Sonata II Antec case?

 

[engiNURD]

Sonata II is quiet. Airflow is not as good as other cases. It comes with a SP2.0 450W thats not very good quality. Its also very cramped inside. The Sonata III comes with a better PSU, as do the new Antec NSK series and Antec Solo cases -- and they typically have better airflow, except the Sonata III.

 

[AndonSage]

Also, I talked to Joe over at AVA and he strongly suggested an Antec case. AndonSage, you included the Coolermaster Centurion 590 in your example (which was one I was considering). Was there a reason? I saw you used the Antec P182 for your own build... I assume it doesn't make nearly as much difference as the PSU...

I used the Coolermaster in the config because it's less expensive than an Antec, but is still a good case. Personally, I love the Antec P182, but I'm not sure it will fit in your budget. Both Coolermaster and Antec make good cases.

Finally, Joe also suggested OCZ memory. What's the good word on it compared to GSkill or other choices?

G.Skill memory is perfectly fine. It's the most often recommended memory here at [H]. OCZ is also good memory. Which one you get will determine what you are doing with the Q9300, based on the selection you have available at AVA.

Some math (Original by enginurd, updated format by Danny Bui):
Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
1:1 Ratio: 2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed
1:1 Ratio: FSB = 1/2 RAM speed

Q9300:
Multi x Actual FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
7.5 × 333MHz, DDR2 667 RAM = 2.5GHz, <<=== Stock speeds
7.5 × 400MHz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.0GHz <<== Easy OC
7.5 × 450MHz, DDR2 900 RAM = 3.4GHz <<== Good OC
7.5 × 500MHz, DDR2 1000 RAM = 3.7GHz <<== Great OC

AVA only carries the G.Skill at 800MHz. If you won't be overclocking the Q9300, or only overclocking it up to 3.0GHz, then you only need 800MHz. If you want to overclock past that, you'll need >800MHz, in which case the OCZ Reaper HPC 1066MHz RAM is your best choice at AVA. The OCZ Reaper HPC 1066MHz RAM is what I used in my computer.