NOC Job Specific Questions

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prochobo

Limp Gawd
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Sep 28, 2005
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I just got offered a job, but awaiting negotiations, as a NOC tech at a local ISP. I will provide tier 3 support and help coordinate with other techs to fix a problem, kind of like incident response type stuff. The job is in a large city in the midwest, requires a CCNA with experience.

The million dollar question is: what is a fair compensation range? It depends on a lot of factors, but could anyone with experience give an average figure for an entry level position like this? I have about 5 years of experience, though not in networking but in IT and network related type like information security. I'm a senior in college majoring in computer information systems and have a CCNA along with 4 other CompTIA certs.

The HR lady said the range was from $12-$17 for starting people. Do you think the higher end is more reasonable and would it be reasonable to ask for so considering what I've done? Also, can anybody provide any past experiences of what the job was like for you and where you went after that?
 
Depending on what you mean by "large city" then 15-17 an hour sounds good for that level.
 
Pff, for $17 an hour you most certainly aren't "tier3"
I had a NOC try and play that crap with me one time too. They hired me as a "level 3" and all through the interview kept saying it wasn't a helpdesk environment.

First day all I did was provide first level support on the phone. Quit that crap in 2 weeks.
Btw, even that was $25 an hour, so I think you are aiming a little low.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
Pff, for $17 an hour you most certainly aren't "tier3"
I had a NOC try and play that crap with me one time too. They hired me as a "level 3" and all through the interview kept saying it wasn't a helpdesk environment.

First day all I did was provide first level support on the phone. Quit that crap in 2 weeks.
Btw, even that was $25 an hour, so I think you are aiming a little low.
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Don't know who you were working for where but $25 an hour sounds pretty damn good to me.
 
Xipher said:
Don't know who you were working for where but $25 an hour sounds pretty damn good to me.
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If you've only ever made less than $20/hour then yeah.. it would sound good.
But for people that have higher level certifications and job experience you figure out you should stop selling yourself short and demand the pay you are actually worth.

A CCNA with 1 year experience should get you MINIMUM 40k per year. That would be entry level in my eyes. Granted everyone has to start somewhere and helpdesk is usually the first place people go, don't settle for shit pay.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
If you've only ever made less than $20/hour then yeah.. it would sound good.
But for people that have higher level certifications and job experience you figure out you should stop selling yourself short and demand the pay you are actually worth.

A CCNA with 1 year experience should get you MINIMUM 40k per year. That would be entry level in my eyes. Granted everyone has to start somewhere and helpdesk is usually the first place people go, don't settle for shit pay.
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I suppose you're assuming this is also "large city" like Chicago, New York, LA. I live in CF Iowa which is a population of about 36,000 and the average income is mid to low 50k. Starting at 40k is certainly pretty damn good.

I guess my point here is income level varies greatly based on locality.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
If you've only ever made less than $20/hour then yeah.. it would sound good.
But for people that have higher level certifications and job experience you figure out you should stop selling yourself short and demand the pay you are actually worth.

A CCNA with 1 year experience should get you MINIMUM 40k per year. That would be entry level in my eyes. Granted everyone has to start somewhere and helpdesk is usually the first place people go, don't settle for shit pay.
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Xipher said:
I suppose you're assuming this is also "large city" like Chicago, New York, LA. I live in CF Iowa which is a population of about 36,000 and the average income is mid to low 50k. Starting at 40k is certainly pretty damn good.

I guess my point here is income level varies greatly based on locality.
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You've got that right Xipher! Phoenix is certainly a "large city" but some IT directors there barely make 40k and we're talking about large companies. I think cyr0n_k0r doesn't realize what most of the country is like with respect to wages and the economy.
 
I realize it just fine. If you live in Po Dunk Iowa then settle for 40k and live like a king.
Phoenix is not a "large" city. Its big, but not anywhere near the LA or New York big you are comparing it to.
 
i'd be surprised if anyone could live on a single income of 40k in a place like DC or NY. the COLA in those places are insane!

(yes, i'm sure you could live on 40k and i'm sure many people do... or live on less)


anyway, i started out around 40k at a location outside of baltimore/DC. that was straight out of college with no experience. granted, i think my situation at the time was the exception instead of the norm, but that was a great salary at the time for me because i didn't have many bills.

anyway, i'm horrible with knowing what salaries should be. I constantly find out about people who don't do shit and get paid really high salaries... that's about 90% of gov't workers :D

i recommend going to a job site like dice or whatever and seeing what other similar jobs are listing (if they list it).
 
i'll throw my 2 cents in on this....

first off, i live in the southeast, specifically middle TN(eg. Nashville y'all :p)

i started my "IT career" working at the Dell call center as a temp making 12.50, that got bumped to 13.75 for 2nd shift and moving around to more skilled que's etc. from there i picked up a pretty nice job in a NOC type environment, started as tier1 HD but evolved into incident management tier2 stuff, people in the NOC figure out you're a subject matter expert and start dealing with you etc...that was a W2 contract position @ ~17/hr with shitloads of OT if i wanted it(one guy made 50k+ a year and was paid the same per hour as i was, he didnt have a gf/wife nor buy a house in the time he was there like i did lol) moved on from there as a sys engineer 2. they were only looking for a engi 1 but upped me to a 2 b/c of my experience, certs and i aced the interviews. currently still hourly @ 22, but it's practically a salary job. easy hours, get the "standard office hours/days" short of the world blows up, and we only have 1 satellite office to deal with.

so all in all, the lesson here is be vigilant, look for the gems in the rough and hold out for them if you can, and be patient, dont expect to be running the whole damn company infrastructure by the time you're 25, the dot com bubble burst a long time ago, get your nose to the grindstone, work hard, make friends and connections and work your way up is all i have to say.
 
Thanks for all the input. The city I'm in is in between the size of Nashville and Indianapolis, so decently large, but not huge.

This time around, I'm going to actually push for the higher wages. In every job I've been in, I've always gotten underpaid and it ends now. I also have my schedule and we haven't even discussed compensation yet, so I know they want me.

Hopefully I can get what I want since I know what the actual averages are now. I tried looking on job sites, but hardly any listing reveals the compensation and research sites like salary.com don't have NOC positions in their db, although their estimate came close to what you guys were saying.
 
You're probably picking a bad time to make a stand on wages. People are willing to work for nothing in this economy. Oh, and the salary information online is usually pretty inflated.
 
I have friends getting paid 19 dollars an hour in Texas with less experience than you. If you took the 17 dollars an hour at least you would have a pretty reputable title under your belt. But if you are looking to stay at this next job for a long time I would definately hold out.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
First day all I did was provide first level support on the phone. Quit that crap in 2 weeks.
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You're like me LOL... That helpdesk stuff would drive me nuts. I help older relatives of the Prez, CFOs, etc... (That stuff counts as work time, fine with me) That's all the patience I can have right there.

But yea, I could never work in a helpdesk environment, ever. Though it would be easier in a way, I just wouldn't have the patience level to deal with idiots all day.

Vito_Corleone said:
You're probably picking a bad time to make a stand on wages. People are willing to work for nothing in this economy.
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No kidding... People on dice.com would kill for a person with a Masters and 10 years experience to make $40K...
 
well i would certainly not take 12.00 dollars an hour lol. i would do 15-17 to play it safe............see if you can get a feel for the person interviewing you. some dont give a shit .......some actually look out for you.
 
Umm.. $12-$17/hr in a NOC is not Tier 3.

Here is something to consider... You have NO experience in this field and just pieces of paper that says you know the books, but no real world experience. I would take the $15 range if I was you.

Stay there for about a year and look for different job and ask for more.
 
Are you getting any compensating for being on-call?

What do you get for call back?
 
horndog said:
Umm.. $12-$17/hr in a NOC is not Tier 3.

Here is something to consider... You have NO experience in this field and just pieces of paper that says you know the books, but no real world experience. I would take the $15 range if I was you.

Stay there for about a year and look for different job and ask for more.
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I have to agree, large Midwest city, and that's what Tier 3 pays? Is there a reason for not saying which city it is? I never understood why there's so much secrecy around where a job is located. F the pay, the NOC experience is key from my point of view. If you can live off that then do it.
 
QHalo said:
I have to agree, large Midwest city, and that's what Tier 3 pays? Is there a reason for not saying which city it is? I never understood why there's so much secrecy around where a job is located. F the pay, the NOC experience is key from my point of view. If you can live off that then do it.
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I'm just relaying what the company told me. "Tier x" is relative to the company.

If I revealed what city, you would know what company I'm talking about since there's pretty much only one main provider for my area. The city is in the Midwest with a little over a million people in the city and surrounding area.

I'm not too concerned about the pay, more about the experience. Right now, I'm just trying to see where I am at relative to others. Research is key to negotiating with HR.
 
prochobo said:
The HR lady said the range was from $12-$17 for starting people. Do you think the higher end is more reasonable and would it be reasonable to ask for so considering what I've done? Also, can anybody provide any past experiences of what the job was like for you and where you went after that?
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Ask for $20/hr. Settle for $17. Even better if you can justify it with previous work experience. I.E. "In my last job I was making $15/hr and I was looking to move up in salary and experience". If you can, get them to name their price first, then negotiate up. You NEED to negotiate this. You asking for too much has little downside and tons of upside. It's not like they're going to say "no job for you" for asking for too much. They'll simply say they can't afford that and give you a counter offer. If you think that is their best offer, take it. If not, ask them if you can think about it for a day.

Ignore the "level 3" title. Every companies "level" differ. You're NOC support. Period. My guess is that you'll be one step above promoted help desk people with no certs. You'll still be working under other techs with more experience. If you're not working under other techs and you're top of the heap, run quickly.

Forget about your past experience. If the company makes you an offer, they've decided you're qualified enough for the position. Ignore your past salary, whatever you negotiate is what the company has decided you're worth to them.
 
Madnes5 said:
Ask for $20/hr. Settle for $17. Even better if you can justify it with previous work experience. I.E. "In my last job I was making $15/hr and I was looking to move up in salary and experience". If you can, get them to name their price first, then negotiate up. You NEED to negotiate this. You asking for too much has little downside and tons of upside. It's not like they're going to say "no job for you" for asking for too much. They'll simply say they can't afford that and give you a counter offer. If you think that is their best offer, take it. If not, ask them if you can think about it for a day.

Ignore the "level 3" title. Every companies "level" differ. You're NOC support. Period. My guess is that you'll be one step above promoted help desk people with no certs. You'll still be working under other techs with more experience. If you're not working under other techs and you're top of the heap, run quickly.

Forget about your past experience. If the company makes you an offer, they've decided you're qualified enough for the position. Ignore your past salary, whatever you negotiate is what the company has decided you're worth to them.
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Sound advice, thank you very much. I had exactly what you said in mind; I was going to say $20 and settle down, but I had no idea how HR would react. It's good to know I won't get canned or negatively labeled for doing so.

Here's the basic structure in the company:

Tier 1 - help desk
Tier 2 - advanced help desk
Tier 3 - NOC techs
Tier 4 - engineers
 
I just want to reiterate what Vito said earlier. If you are going to ask for more then what they are offering in the negotiations in this economy be prepared to turned down and they hire someone else. The reason I'm saying this is because I just saw a friend try the same thing and the company said forget it and hired someone else. He was only asking for 2 grand more then what their salary range offered too. The company didn't even give him a chance to say "I'm sorry, I was trying to test the waters" speech. They just cut off communications and sent him a letter saying they picked someone else.

If you can afford to have this happen then I would say ask for more and settle down.
 
One thing I forgot to mention, which might make a big difference, is that I'm having to go through a staffing company to get into the position. It's the standard practice for my employer.

The lady called me and gave me the details and very quickly said the position pays $16.25. The way she said it sounded like there was no room for me to say anything; she spoke pretty quickly through it in an assertive voice. It's not very far of from what I was wanting and considering the times we are in and my experience, I don't think I'll make a hassle over a slight bit more.
 
ElvisG said:
I just want to reiterate what Vito said earlier. If you are going to ask for more then what they are offering in the negotiations in this economy be prepared to turned down and they hire someone else. The reason I'm saying this is because I just saw a friend try the same thing and the company said forget it and hired someone else. He was only asking for 2 grand more then what their salary range offered too. The company didn't even give him a chance to say "I'm sorry, I was trying to test the waters" speech. They just cut off communications and sent him a letter saying they picked someone else.

If you can afford to have this happen then I would say ask for more and settle down.
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If you're really the best person for the job that they've offered- they wouldn't have done that. Sounds like they had a pool of good people to pull from, your friend just happened to have a slight bit more qualifications or the interviewer liked him a bit more, and was offered the job first.
 
TechieSooner said:
If you're really the best person for the job that they've offered- they wouldn't have done that. Sounds like they had a pool of good people to pull from, your friend just happened to have a slight bit more qualifications or the interviewer liked him a bit more, and was offered the job first.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Companies are inundated with candidates. It's their world to call the shots right now on pay and positions.
 
prochobo said:
One thing I forgot to mention, which might make a big difference, is that I'm having to go through a staffing company to get into the position. It's the standard practice for my employer.
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There probably isn't much room to haggle then. Just ask the recruiter, say, "Based on my experience with <insert something> I was looking to be making $17/hr. Is there any flexibility in that number"? Also keep in mind, while you're making $16/hr, the company is likely paying the temp firm closer to $35/hr.

Salary negotiation is important because it's like compound interest. The more you get up front will lead to exponential gains in the future. That 5% year end bonus. If you negotiated an extra $2k year salary you just got an extra $100. That 3% salary increase, you just got an extra ~$1000/yr. That new job you're applying for, you can walk in and say "previously I made $x".
 
QHalo said:
I was thinking the exact same thing. Companies are inundated with candidates. It's their world to call the shots right now on pay and positions.
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Companies are inundated with candidates for low qualification jobs. The question becomes, is a level 3 noc engineer low qualification? A staffing company, hourly wage instead of salary, and little formal job experience say yes. "Level 3", and being a tech company in a midwest non-tech area say no. OP will have to figure that one out on his own.
 
Madnes5 said:
Companies are inundated with candidates for low qualification jobs. The question becomes, is a level 3 noc engineer low qualification? A staffing company, hourly wage instead of salary, and little formal job experience say yes. "Level 3", and being a tech company in a midwest non-tech area say no. OP will have to figure that one out on his own.
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I was not referring to the OP.
 
hourly wage instead of salary
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Hourly does not mean you get paid less and in fact the Dept. of Labor guidelines specify that IT workers should be paid hourly because they are often stuck working odd hours and overtime. Being salary just means you get screwed when it comes to labor laws not that your in a high level position necessarily.
 
Madnes5 said:
Also keep in mind, while you're making $16/hr, the company is likely paying the temp firm closer to $35/hr.
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Not true, at least here. We'd be paying a temp agency about $20, not $35....

Zlash said:
Hourly does not mean you get paid less and in fact the Dept. of Labor guidelines specify that IT workers should be paid hourly because they are often stuck working odd hours and overtime. Being salary just means you get screwed when it comes to labor laws not that your in a high level position necessarily.
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QFT.
Hourly>Salary

You get paid for ridiculous hours. Which serves as a deterrant for managment making you work ridiculous hours in the first place.
Win-Win, really.
 
TechieSooner said:
Not true, at least here. We'd be paying a temp agency about $20, not $35....


QFT.
Hourly>Salary

You get paid for ridiculous hours. Which serves as a deterrant for managment making you work ridiculous hours in the first place.
Win-Win, really.
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I can vouch for this. I am salaried, but I am constantly working extra hours and whatnot. However, I don't know how it changes when you start talking about benefits...
 
berky said:
I can vouch for this. I am salaried, but I am constantly working extra hours and whatnot. However, I don't know how it changes when you start talking about benefits...
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i have never worked at a company that had extra or different benefits for salaried employees. although it could be different elsewhere
 
Hourly benefits are the same... There's really no difference.

The ONLY benefit to salary is more flexible time... If you need to take an afternoon off, you can do so without losing pay or vacation time. But along with that, obviously, longer workweeks with less pay. If I were to chose I'd chose hourly every time.
 
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