No more Xbox 360...

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Maybe it is a bit surprising that this thread has gone on as long as it has. Simply for the fact that, not trying to piss off anyone, that the mods here seem to be pretty anal about closing stuff. I see threads closed all the time and never really understood the reason for the closure. This site seems to be monitored more than any other forums I've ever been to, sometimes to the point of seeming to be a dictatorship. Reminds me a little of the "soup nazi" from Seinfeld. He'd let you ramble to a certain point and then hit you with,

"No soup for you!" BAM! Closed.
 
htpc_user said:
Maybe it is a bit surprising that this thread has gone on as long as it has. Simply for the fact that, not trying to piss off anyone, that the mods here seem to be pretty anal about closing stuff. I see threads closed all the time and never really understood the reason for the closure. This site seems to be monitored more than any other forums I've ever been to, sometimes to the point of seeming to be a dictatorship. Reminds me a little of the "soup nazi" from Seinfeld. He'd let you ramble to a certain point and then hit you with,

"No soup for you!" BAM! Closed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but its for good reason. Like Kyle said, you invite 50,000 people over to your house every day and see how it goes.

back on topic.... :D
 
I just wanted to throw out a few interesting things here... (and I'll admit I read P1 + P12 and skipped the rest)

I was a problem child, in some people's eyes I still am at 25 (I'll admit I'm stubborn and at times quick to anger) And my parents tried this tactic and it worked to a point. What they did and what I think should have been done instead (or first atleast) is to break the *games* thus leaving them with a perfectly functioning system that they couldn't use. (this is what happened with my SNES back in the day)

I also agree that instead of smashing it yourself you should have forced them to smash it, that would have left a much harsher emotional scar.

On the flip side, I'm also going to back up that this does not always work. It did not work with me. I learned ways of fooling my parents (such as glueing broken game cartridges back together and letting them break the same ones 5+ times on occasion) or Hiding my stuff where they couldnt find it quickly or easily, or even when I had a game I especially loved, I would save my money and buy 1 copy with my father, then 1 copy with my mother, or buy one with them and get my grandparents to buy me a copy.

When I moved to the PC they started deleting my games and files, so I learned how to install a 2nd HD and extend the cables so when *I* was going to use the PC I removed the bezel and connected the cable, booted, then when I Was done I shut it down and unplugged the cable, replacing the bezel each time. I also got very proficient with undelete programs. (not to mention a score of "window hiding" and "file hiding" programs)

When I started working I opened a Mailbox etc box (I know - I shoudlnt have lied about my age, but they should have taken time to check it too) and I set up a bank account with a debit card that my parents didnt know about (taking time to find one that paid 0.0% interest so they'd not learn about it @ tax time either) and ordered replacements or even on occasion ordered fake items for them to smash that wouldn't effect me (I had my desktop in another room with cables running under the loose floorboards and had a fake desktop that *looked* like it was hooked up.)

Ultimately nothing worked (including physical punishment - eventually I learned to grit my teeth and bear it), my parents had to just sit on me and do the best they could untill I matured. My point is some children *are* little monsters that cannot be "cured" by any means and you have to pray your going to at least keep them out of jail. I still have some problems and I know it, but if my parents had not been the hardline bas****s that they were I dont doubt I'd be in prison by now.

So congrats to the OP for being a good parent and taking a hardline wiht kids, it's very easy to just let them slide.
 
htpc_user said:
This site seems to be monitored more than any other forums I've ever been to, sometimes to the point of seeming to be a dictatorship.
Click to expand...

Much like the realization that the OP's kids are comming to......

The sooner people realize that message boards ARE dictatorships, the better.
 
I'll give a flip side to the common sentiment in this thread.

My father was a violent, abusive drunk. Let that sink in first before anyone starts getting defensive about anything I'd say. I know the difference between some of what is being said here and what I am about to describe.

He would do things like smash my toys whenever he was mad at me. Even with the hindsight of some more than 15 years after the fact... I would say a lot of it was undeserved.

The biggest issue I had with his form of parenting was being a demanding asshole. I'm sure some of you are reading this, already thinking "Ah, here we go. Another spoiled brat who doesn't like to be told what to do and probably screamed up a storm whenever he had to be reminded to do his chores."

Far from it. After a rather big fight, my mother playing her usual role of being the mediator... I told her that I only asked for one thing. That if either of them ever wanted me to do something... ask me to do it. Don't scream at me to do it and don't break my stuff when I show up 6 minutes after I was asked instead of 5. I told her, point blank, I had no respect for my father because of the things he did. All I wanted at that point was to graduate high school, get a job and move the fuck out. She knew it. I just told her I wanted to be -asked- like an adult instead of being barked and screamed at like a child.

Well, she didn't relay my message. Apparently that would have just caused him to blow up again. So I get home from school the next day, I turn on the TV for background noise and get ready to do my homework. My father storms into my room, tells me to get my ass outside and to stack the rest of the firewood. I told him I absolutely had to finish my schoolwork that night and was going to be a bit busy with it. It was only my senior project and responsible for 70% of my English class grade.

He kicks over the TV. "You will do what I tell you to do, BOY."

He had done this before to my NES. Broke it. He's thrown out my records. One time I went into the tree house to get away from him. He threw a full bottled water at my head and removed the ladder from it so I couldn't get down. All in response to a perceived lack of falling in line as he expected me to be. I'm nearly graduating high school and it was all the same to him.

After he kicked over the TV, I calmly walked outside, head around to the garage, got a crowbar and walked over to his truck. He was on the other side of the yard looking for me when I shouted for him.

"Do you want me graduate school, or do you want me to end up a fucking wasted asshole like you are?"

He starts running for me. I smash the window in his truck and club him on the head on my return swing when he catches up to me. He lands on the ground.

I raised the crowbar above him. I just said to him. "You leave me alone, I leave you alone and mom doesn't have to put up with our shit." Dropped the crowbar next to him and walked back inside.

That was the last fight we had until the day he called my best friend's wife a ++++++ a few years later. I haven't been back to visit since I moved out during that one year I went to stay and visit.

7 years now. I think he's finally starting to learn. He sounds pathetic when he calls me.

The lesson to be learned here...

You want to show your kids something by destroying something you think they love and can't do without?

Be sure to do it without destroying the last bit of respect they have for you. You can only do so much before you end up with children who resent you and want nothing to do with you. Sure, it might have been effective at first... but in the case of my father, he was well beyond that line before he knew he had crossed it. All it did was made me want to avoid him further because he thought he had to be more destructive with anything that was in my room in order to continue to scare me back into shape.

As much as he seems to sound like he's starting to cry over the phone when he talks about the mistakes he's made when we (me and my sister, my sister also doesn't have anything to do with him) were growing up...

I want nothing to do with him still.

Don't let this be your mistake because you let it go on too far, too long... the whole breaking the kid's toys thing because they misbehave.
 
Authoritative parenting is the most successful and balanced technique, in the opinion of many sociologists and psychologists. It's an even balance of nurturing and authority. Down the middle. I can't see how the OP's actions go against that. You can't just spoil kids, and at the same time you can't take "evasive action" without explaining why. I guess you have to explain why you're being overly nurturing should you choose to be. Communication really can dissolve a great deal of conflicts and problems... if you can figure out what to say.

I think the OP did a great job. It's one thing to intervene, it's a whole other to do it effectively.
 
Children are not so frail and emotionally delicate as some people here think. Life is dangerous, and coddling children from that fact will only result in them not understanding how to deal with it later. Actions have consequences, be they desirable or undesirable. The lesson of cause and effect must be taught by the parent, or else it will be taught be the school of hard knocks and sometimes with fatal results. In nature, if you do not learn, you die. In human society, if you do not learn to respect authority, you will eventually end up in prison or you'll do something stupid enough to get you killed. Getting an emotional bruising as a kid from a parent will wear off. Kids get over it. It's called "growing up". Once the lesson is learned that "If I do X, Y will result, therefore I should not do X" then children start to learn how to restrain themselves from foolish and dangerous behaviors. The younger this is learned, the better. Once puberty is reached, all bets are off, so it's best to teach this lesson sooner rather than later.

Some have said that watching a parent violently smash an X-box in front of them is "psycho". Sitting down and "having a chat" was obviously not working according to what was said earlier in the thread. TheBluePill seems rational enough to me, and in decades past, there would be little talk of his actions being "psycho" and a lot more of "what the hell took you so long? If they were my kids I would have cracked their behinds the first time they talked back to me, and no way would they make my wife cry like that. Not in my house!" If you want perspective, speak to your grandparents about how they were raised, and how things were in their time. Knowing what worked in the past is always helpful. Not every new idea is a good idea, after all.

Prior to all this modern psychology nonsense, disobedience among children, murders by children, and school shooting sprees, etc, were not commonplace. In the US, when firearms were more commonly owned and their ownership more accepted as the norm, and access to firearms by children was more prevalent, Columbine-type events did not happen. Fist-fights among youngsters were common, but shootings were not. Parents must have been doing something right 100 years ago that they are not doing right today. Discipline certainly comes to mind.
 
techrat: What you're describing is unwarranted abuse aimed at you for very minor actions on your part. TheBluePill's situation with his children is entirely different. His was a "last straw" situation, where the children were making their mother cry over their actions. What you did with the crowbar is more akin to what TheBluePill did with the sledgehammer. I'm glad you stopped short of what many would have done, and that's to continue with the crowbar until your father was dead. Under that level of abuse, many would have snapped completely. I don't think what TheBluePill is doing here is abuse, but a dramatic but simple one-time corrective action.
 
Phoenix333 said:
Prior to all this modern psychology nonsense, disobedience among children, murders by children, and school shooting sprees, etc, were not commonplace. In the US, when firearms were more commonly owned and their ownership more accepted as the norm, and access to firearms by children was more prevalent, Columbine-type events did not happen. Fist-fights among youngsters were common, but shootings were not. Parents must have been doing something right 100 years ago that they are not doing right today. Discipline certainly comes to mind.
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QFT!

I'd also like to point out that 1 part of the gun problem is parents no longer teach their kids to respect a firearm. In the old days a father would take his kid out at 12 or so and either go hunting or have them shoot at targets to understand the danger of the gun and it's power. You get either of 2 reactions today. Either nonchalant unconcerned about guns, or fear of them, depending on the kid. I'm 25 and last month was the first time I held a real gun and I almost dropped it my hands were shaking so much... (and no, it wasn't even loaded, so 100% harmless) I know other people who 'forget' and leave them in their car or coat and carry them around in store or even have them when picking up their kids form school, complete disregard for their danger.

Oh, but I forget, modern psychology dictates that even *seeing* a gun is traumatizing to kids, I'm sorry, forget what I said... :rolleyes:
 
Phoenix333 said:
techrat: What you're describing is unwarranted abuse aimed at you for very minor actions on your part. TheBluePill's situation with his children is entirely different. His was a "last straw" situation, where the children were making their mother cry over their actions. What you did with the crowbar is more akin to what TheBluePill did with the sledgehammer. I'm glad you stopped short of what many would have done, and that's to continue with the crowbar until your father was dead. Under that level of abuse, many would have snapped completely. I don't think what TheBluePill is doing here is abuse, but a dramatic but simple one-time corrective action.
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Allow me to requote a segment of my original post.

techrat said:
My father was a violent, abusive drunk. Let that sink in first before anyone starts getting defensive about anything I'd say. I know the difference between some of what is being said here and what I am about to describe.
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Personally I would have chipped in for a wood chipper (full pun intended) but the moral still applies.

I back you 100%, they are your kids so you should know by now what it takes to get them to listen. Obviously its a M$ product and a Hammer :)

This is sooooo much better than the parents that give and give hoping they can bribe their kids into being "good" (my in laws are all this way)

Take luck my friend.
 
It wasn't a defensive post. It was an additional clarification that doesn't at all take away from your counter-point, or, example of the opposite extreme. I daresay except for your taking a stand with the crowbar being a complete mirror of the original poster's motivation and situation, there is no point for mentioning it other than to warn the kind of person who is not prone to taking advice or listening to others.

But what do I know?
 
I think that there is a majority here that understand that you both need to be able to communicate effectively with your children, as well as be authoritative at times with physical punishment.

Parents who only beat their children lose their child's respect because there appears to be no difference in punishment from offense to offense.

Parents who only verbally confront their children lose their child's respect because they simply learn to tune them out.

Parents who respond in a balanced and escalating method learn to appreciate both methods of discipline and can balance them individually based on the child's responses. Consistent punishment that begins with verbal/grounding warnings and end with physical responses if left unchecked teaches children to respect their parent's physical authority as well as appreciate their verbal responses as a way to avoid further physical discipline. Parents who inconsistently punish their children by giving indefinite verbal warnings or by snapping and applying physical punishment in inconsistent manners simply confuse children.

I believe the OP did what was right for his situation. Yes, the OP failed in the past, allowing his children to develop to this point. But I'm sure his children will look back at this action fondly as adults, probably joking about it reflecting on how poorly they behaved back in the days prior. No I do not have children, I'm too busy solidifying my marriage with my wife, who was raised in a broken home. As such, I will not have a child as some wild attempt to "improve our marriage", resulting in both a poor marriage and unruly brats. There's a chance we may not have children if we cannot communicate effectively with each other, as communication is critical with raising children, and inconsistent messages can only lead to poor behavior.

Seems like children from the greatest generation (WW2 era) didn't have psychologists dictating what is and is not an appropriate way to raise their children, nor did they have problems being spanked as children. I suppose parents nowadays are too busy entertaining themselves or their children to actually parent them once in a while.
 
diSynthetic said:
It wasn't a defensive post. It was an additional clarification that doesn't at all take away from your counter-point, or, example of the opposite extreme. I daresay except for your taking a stand with the crowbar being a complete mirror of the original poster's motivation and situation, there is no point for mentioning it other than to warn the kind of person who is not prone to taking advice or listening to others.

But what do I know?
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It helps to add that my father still hasn't apologised for it. He calls it mistakes, but has never said sorry. He still cannot admit that he went too far...

The only point I had hoped to make was to serve as a reminder not to let something like this one time smashing of the XBox be an ongoing method, tactic in dealing with the kids.

We ALL have had our terrible moments as kids and I'm sure some of you will look back at what happened and think it was effective in shaping you up. My father's mistake was in behaving as any moment was another terrible moment when it was not exactly how he wanted it, even without communication to make that clear... going on for as long as it did, up to when I was almost of legal age.

I can explain it now... He lost perspective. In responding the way he did when he thought he needed to, it got to the point to where he didn't know he wasn't responding to a 7 year old kid who needed to be shaped up... he was responding to someone 10 years older/later who wanted nothing more than to have nothing to do with him.

My post was nothing more than a statement to say... do what you think you need to do, just don't let it get THAT bad on your own part.
 
techrat said:
It helps to add that my father still hasn't apologised for it. He calls it mistakes, but has never said sorry. He still cannot admit that he went too far...

The only point I had hoped to make was to serve as a reminder not to let something like this one time smashing of the XBox be an ongoing method, tactic in dealing with the kids.

We ALL have had our terrible moments as kids and I'm sure some of you will look back at what happened and think it was effective in shaping you up. My father's mistake was in behaving as any moment was another terrible moment when it was not exactly how he wanted it, even without communication to make that clear... going on for as long as it did, up to when I was almost of legal age.

I can explain it now... He lost perspective. In responding the way he did when he thought he needed to, it got to the point to where he didn't know he wasn't responding to a 7 year old kid who needed to be shaped up... he was responding to someone 10 years older/later who wanted nothing more than to have nothing to do with him.

My post was nothing more than a statement to say... do what you think you need to do, just don't let it get THAT bad on your own part.
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Oh, make no mistake, i hope i NEVER have to do anything like that again.
I dont ever even want to have to raise my voice at them.. but i know i will eventually. I dont want to give them a spanking.. but again.. i know i will have to again one day. Thats actually the suckie part of being a parent. I bought them all of that stuff in the hope that they would enjoy it and play nice with it and "have something".. but it didnt work out that way.. now we are all out, loosing something of each of us, everyone in the family.. picking up some peaces and moving forward in a new direction. But the goal is to better the kids in the long run.. and hopefully be better parents too.
 
OldGuy said:
Much like the realization that the OP's kids are comming to......

The sooner people realize that message boards ARE dictatorships, the better.
Click to expand...

I'm more for the notion of free speech. If someone wants to start a thread and ask a question that's been asked 100 times already, who cares?

Ashton said:
I just wanted to throw out a few interesting things here... (and I'll admit I read P1 + P12 and skipped the rest)

I was a problem child, in some people's eyes I still am at 25 (I'll admit I'm stubborn and at times quick to anger) And my parents tried this tactic and it worked to a point. What they did and what I think should have been done instead (or first atleast) is to break the *games* thus leaving them with a perfectly functioning system that they couldn't use. (this is what happened with my SNES back in the day)

I also agree that instead of smashing it yourself you should have forced them to smash it, that would have left a much harsher emotional scar.

On the flip side, I'm also going to back up that this does not always work. It did not work with me. I learned ways of fooling my parents (such as glueing broken game cartridges back together and letting them break the same ones 5+ times on occasion) or Hiding my stuff where they couldnt find it quickly or easily, or even when I had a game I especially loved, I would save my money and buy 1 copy with my father, then 1 copy with my mother, or buy one with them and get my grandparents to buy me a copy.

When I moved to the PC they started deleting my games and files, so I learned how to install a 2nd HD and extend the cables so when *I* was going to use the PC I removed the bezel and connected the cable, booted, then when I Was done I shut it down and unplugged the cable, replacing the bezel each time. I also got very proficient with undelete programs. (not to mention a score of "window hiding" and "file hiding" programs)

When I started working I opened a Mailbox etc box (I know - I shoudlnt have lied about my age, but they should have taken time to check it too) and I set up a bank account with a debit card that my parents didnt know about (taking time to find one that paid 0.0% interest so they'd not learn about it @ tax time either) and ordered replacements or even on occasion ordered fake items for them to smash that wouldn't effect me (I had my desktop in another room with cables running under the loose floorboards and had a fake desktop that *looked* like it was hooked up.)

Ultimately nothing worked (including physical punishment - eventually I learned to grit my teeth and bear it), my parents had to just sit on me and do the best they could untill I matured. My point is some children *are* little monsters that cannot be "cured" by any means and you have to pray your going to at least keep them out of jail. I still have some problems and I know it, but if my parents had not been the hardline bas****s that they were I dont doubt I'd be in prison by now.

So congrats to the OP for being a good parent and taking a hardline wiht kids, it's very easy to just let them slide.
Click to expand...

Very inventive dude. I'm all for "sticking it to the man". I've always said I'd rather go through more trouble for myself if it meant screwing someone else over in the process. My favorite Seinfeld episode is the one where they're trying to get George to quit because he's not really handicapped, so they board his office up. So he crawls through the vents to get into his office. Even though it would've been easier for him to let it go, he went the extra mile to make sure his boss didn't win even though he had to go through more effort than it would have taken to just quit, LOL.
 
Very impressive thread. As the oldest of 5, I think the OP did the right thing.

I saw what my siblings did over the years and I remember how I was punished over the years. While my parents didn't have to resort to such drastic measures as the OP, things like removing doors from hinges so they can't be slammed anymore, yanking a phone from a room, hitting the power button on the NES or cutting power to a room during a grounding so electronics wouldn't work were common and it worked.

Things like spanking only work for a few years. Then physical punishment doesn't do much. So you have to hit them where it hurts like toys/video games/car in order to get the point across. If that means putting a sledgehammer through a $300+ piece of electronics then so be it. Something like that sure as hell would have driven the point home to me and my siblings and I wouldn't have thought any different of my parents.
 
Well, this thread was only marginally on-topic in the first place for the gaming forum, but it seems to have quickly spiraled out of control into parenting techniques, which unfortunately are 100% off-topic.
This thread would be fine in our off-topic subscription section, General Mayhem
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