No more matchmaking.

Y

Yossarian22

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
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Please. For the love of God, stop introducing matchmaking (and matchmaking only) to games.

I just got done playing the Aliens Vs. Predator demo (the new AvP, not the old school classic, obviously) and while the gameplay was fun, nothing was more painful than sitting around with my thumb up my ass waiting for people to join. Luckily, I happened to have 8 friends online at the moment and they all jumped at the demo in half a minute.

Matchmaking is an inferior methodology of connecting to hosted servers and it totally makes or breaks games (for myself, my friends who also complained, etc). When you think about what matchmaking does or how effective any particular matchmaking algorithm (or lack thereof) does, you realize that it is ridiculous.

I realize matchmaking is to make a game console friendly but you can have your cake and eat it, too. xbox360 has ten buttons, green and red for select/back, directional pad to traverse up and down a list, right shoulder to toggle the filter panel, left shoulder to toggle a panel showing friends currently in game/servers (select allows you to join); it's not a very hard UI to bang out. I could do this shit with wxWidgets, qt, gtk+, win32api in like thirty minutes at the most. The best part is that you assign or give an option of just doing matchmaking (equivalent to joining a random server, regardless of ping, players, etc).

Problem fucking solved.

Ditch this bullshit.
 
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Was this more of a rant, or did you actually hope to accomplish something with this thread?

Seems a bit obvious to me at this point.
 
criccio said:
Was this more of a rant, or did you actually hope to accomplish something with this thread?

Seems a bit obvious to me at this point.
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You can have a server browser for any system that utilizes a gamepad as it's primary input device. I outlined it briefly above. I could go into more detail.

There is no reason to EVER have matchmaking as a the primary mode of networking (either P2P, offloaded dedicated, both, or otherwise). Matchmaking can be implemented in a plethora ways with a server list or server browser, which can be EASILY navigated on a system. With a gamepad as it's primary input device.

I'm wondering if developers are just stupid? Lazy? Or they think console people can't handle them? (not everyone who uses a console is dumb nor are they lazy) They will find quite to the contrary.

I'll only support matchmaking if they develop mini-games while you wait to find a server or in the case of AvP, you wait for people to join your "lobby" (whatever the hell that means).
I was thinking chess, checkers, maybe even Starcraft, in a little left hand window?
 
O no, I agree wholeheartedly. I just think a thread about this is A, a little late, and B, useless at this point.
 
while im not really for or against, the matchmaking system for Forza3 seems to work, i miss the old style sometimes, but one can still create a private room with your own rules and invite friends, and usually on the old system i would still end up in a room with the same group of friends anyways....not a big deal, its a video game, i dont let those things get me worked up
 
Q-BZ said:
I'm down with this rant.
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Word. I'm not giving my money to companies that are making their ranked MP matchmaking only. DoW II was the first and last. Leave the matchmaking on consoles, thanks.
 
they are trying to foist matchmaking on them so they won't have to put in dedicated server code into their games so they can get their products out faster and spend less money on the development part of the game

yay!
 
Icing on the cake:

Some Steam services are now offline during this time including the Steam Community, in-game matchmaking or lobbies.
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Try to connect to a game right no- oh wait, you can't. The game's match making "master server" is STEAM Friends Network. When was the CS:S Master Server List down? (and if it was, you could always use an alternative, like All Seeing Eye, Gamespy, etc...?)

Case in point.

Q.E.D.
 
Agree.

Go ahead and put in matchmaking for the casuals but also include server browsers and such for those of use who want to make our own choices.
 
My sister got matched at eharmony. Oh..... matchmaking in games, wouldn't know. Never been matched, but it doesn't sound too fun. I like my single player games.
 
I like random fast matchmaking, if it's quick and reliable. BUT not at the sake of no server browser/dedis.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Yossarian22 said:
Icing on the cake:

Try to connect to a game right no- oh wait, you can't. The game's match making "master server" is STEAM Friends Network. When was the CS:S Master Server List down? (and if it was, you could always use an alternative, like All Seeing Eye, Gamespy, etc...?)

Case in point.

Q.E.D.
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You understand that was scheduled maintainence they have had a warning about for at least a week? Down for a big 3 hours after they warned you a week before, cry some more.
 
Yossarian22 said:
Icing on the cake:



Try to connect to a game right no- oh wait, you can't. The game's match making "master server" is STEAM Friends Network. When was the CS:S Master Server List down? (and if it was, you could always use an alternative, like All Seeing Eye, Gamespy, etc...?)

Case in point.

Q.E.D.
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I don't get your point. It was from 12am to 2 am my time and I still don't get the point you're making. how does steam being down maintenance reflect poorly on Matching making or dedicated servers?
 
SixtyWattKid said:
You understand that was scheduled maintainence they have had a warning about for at least a week? Down for a big 3 hours after they warned you a week before, cry some more.
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I didn't receive any warning. I am logged into STEAM 24/7.

I think I hear your console beckoning you to come play it. Go ahead, you can make concessions so your games are "console friendly" but in the end you will hurt all users bases, regardless of platform.
 
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piscian18 said:
I don't get your point. It was from 12am to 2 am my time and I still don't get the point you're making. how does steam being down maintenance reflect poorly on Matching making or dedicated servers?
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AvP's match making is dependent on STEAM, they're integrated.
 
Drop the attitude dude, it's better to make logical and coherent arguments than to sling mud at someone else, because in the end both of you end up getting dirty. While I agree with your more salient points, edit your post and leave what's relevant in there.

If you buy the game on Steam, you're still dependent on Steam to go online, but you know that and you accept that when you buy the game on steam, so that has nothing to do with the developers. If they choose to make the game available through Steam and you don't like that fact, then simply don't buy it.

The wisest protest resides in keeping one's currency deep in one's pocket and not giving unjust reward to business practices you dislike.
 
Matchmaking is retarded. Just let people play the game they paid for how they want to. I always did like the entire online setup for Socom 2. Battlefield 2 had a nice setup for PC, too.

I want to make my own rooms, find my friends, etc. It's supposed to be about my fun, me and my friends who paid for the game. And you have to take a long term approach, some of these games have communities that survive for years and years. The developer needs to provide continued support for those franchises over the long term.
 
Fail said:
Drop the attitude dude, it's better to make logical and coherent arguments than to sling mud at someone else, because in the end both of you end up getting dirty. While I agree with your more salient points, edit your post and leave what's relevant in there.

If you buy the game on Steam, you're still dependent on Steam to go online, but you know that and you accept that when you buy the game on steam, so that has nothing to do with the developers. If they choose to make the game available through Steam and you don't like that fact, then simply don't buy it.

The wisest protest resides in keeping one's currency deep in one's pocket and not giving unjust reward to business practices you dislike.
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Advice taken on both counts. Edited and this game was an impulse buy for me but after seeing the shoddy attempt to shoehorn the game into a PC format with match making, now I feel suddenly meh about it.
 
Yossarian22 said:
I didn't receive any warning. I am logged into STEAM 24/7.

I think I hear your console beckoning you to come play it. Go ahead, you can make concessions so your games are "console friendly" but in the end you will hurt all users bases, regardless of platform.
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u mad?
 
Q-BZ said:
I'm down with this rant.
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Me too.

Matchmaking is SHIT, we have dedicated servers with a server browser for a REASON, because it's the best way to acomplish finding a good server.

Yes i understand you have to accomodate for console tards who dont know a server from a beansprout and that's lovely, take care of them and once they're sorted please come back and build something good for the PC crowd or just don't bother.

I'm not going to buy AvP because they've forced us to use matchmaking which is SHIT, it clearly doesn't work properly and even when you do finally get into a game its a laggy piece of crap because it's picked a server miles away.

Just like with a lot of things that have crept into PC gaming, it's because of our complacency that it's allowed to occur, if we make a noise about it now then developers get feedback and know what to do.
 
The full avp game wont just be matchmaking right? say it aint so!
 
Carl said:
The full avp game wont just be matchmaking right? say it aint so!
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the final version will have dedicated servers.. they used match making in the demo because it removed the need to setup dedicated servers just for the demo then having to update all those dedicated servers for the retail release of the game.. but of course people are to lazy and dumb to research this and start threads like this complaining about crap.. wonder how the OP'er would of felt if he had to pay for a server just to play a demo.. then wait 24-48 hours while the server was down to be updated to the final release.. mind you while paying for the server being down for those 24-48 hours.. its just plain common sense.. something people lack these days..
 
I agree with the OP. Matchmaking is the worst thing ever to hit gaming, at least when it's the only MP option.
 
Wonder how much longer it will take for this to get locked? :D

Oh, and btw I don't sit my thumb up my ass. (That's gross) I come and post on the [H] while I wait, duh! :p :D
 
This measure is being used more and more to curb piracy. If that is what it takes to curb piracy and maybe increase sales of PC games, then I am all for it.
 
Staples said:
This measure is being used more and more to curb piracy. If that is what it takes to curb piracy and maybe increase sales of PC games, then I am all for it.
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Perhaps, but if this is the direction PC games are taking (ie. no freedom) there is really no point in owning a gaming PC anymore. Slightly better graphics than consoles, woo, big deal, that's not what PC gaming has always been about.

If PC gaming is being "locked down" to curb piracy, the only people who will benefit from PC games compared to console games are those who do things like Eyefinity set ups, which is a precious few. All your average gamers would be better off on consoles (at least a console game I can take to a friends house and play on their machine).
 
SixtyWattMan said:
u mad?
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Initially, yes. Throwing away nearly three decades of multiplayer gaming experience in lieu of matchmaking ONLY is something worth "crying" about. Also, Predator and Aliens in particular are my favorite movie franchises of all time. So, it's something I'd consider having a slight tizzy over.

PrincessFrosty said:
Me too.

Matchmaking is SHIT, we have dedicated servers with a server browser for a REASON, because it's the best way to acomplish finding a good server...

...it's because of our complacency that it's allowed to occur, if we make a noise about it now then developers get feedback and know what to do.
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If we have beef, then we have to make a ruckus. Some people replying to this thread think otherwise, i.e: shut up, nothing is broken, developers won't listen, etc... But I'm voting with my wallet, regardless if developers will listen or not.

sirmonkey1985 said:
...wonder how the OP'er would of felt if he had to pay for a server just to play a demo.. then wait 24-48 hours while the server was down to be updated to the final release.. mind you while paying for the server being down for those 24-48 hours.. its just plain common sense.. something people lack these days..
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Uh, why would I have to pay for a dedicated server? I'm connected directly to a high bandwidth connection? :confused: We're talking about a master server that gives me the list of servers everyone hosts, dedicated or not? This is free and there are third party services that provide it (All Seeing Eye, Gamespy, etc...)? I get the feeling English is your second language. :confused:

Staples said:
This measure is being used more and more to curb piracy. If that is what it takes to curb piracy and maybe increase sales of PC games, then I am all for it.
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If a game is popular enough, piracy cannot be prevented and that is a weak and chickenshit argument to shoehorn game functionality. World Of Warcraft? Reverse engineered servers. I'm sure if matchmaking becomes more popular than the old method (remember, nearly three decades of gaming wisdom and experience thrown out the window here) then clever people will find a way to reverse engineer the matchmaking process, either by changing the hosts table, patching the binary, or whatever. It can and has been done. It's a weak argument and it is little more than a tiny speedbump for pirates.

And while we're talking about piracy, a good reason why not to pirate games is because it's a pain in the ass to play them multiplayer and you have to do all sorts of convoluted shit to play them with people who are also too cheap to buy the game (smaller pool of players to play with). Also, embedded malware is becoming increasing common; why pirate a game and have your machine become a IRC zombie DDoS bot? No thanks.
 
Staples said:
This measure is being used more and more to curb piracy. If that is what it takes to curb piracy and maybe increase sales of PC games, then I am all for it.
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oh yea this really curb that piracy we saw in MW2, oh wait wait
 
I don't even think piracy is their primary goal. I think what their aim is to make the games a closed platform. With a closed platform, the game companies can lock out modders and map creators. What is the point of this? Look at how big of a cash cow downloadable content has become on the Xbox 360 and PS3. By making mods impossible, they can essentially sell us the same thing the community has been providing for the last few decades through DLC. :(
 
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