No HD-DVD over component cables.

[MovieMan80]

Saw this article on Slashdot.org today.

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/early_hdtv_adopters_screwed_by_hddisc_rules.html#more

Slashdot article

Apparently the folks who designed the Advanced Access Content System (AACS)for the new HD DVD formats have decided to stick it to the early HDTV adopters. If your set used the older component video, expect to watch your new HD DVD at a quarter of the resolutions. To thwart piracy of course." From the article: "AACS says the new players won't output a full-HD signal from their component-video connections, since those jacks are analog instead of digital and thus have no copy protection. The 'down-rezzed' signals will be limited to a resolution of 960 x 540 pixels -- exactly one-quarter the 1,920 x 1,080 pixels that you'll get through the copy-protected digital connectors on the players. The potentially huge problem with this strategy is that the only HD inputs on a lot of older HDTVs are component video."

HDMI will probably be ok as it's a digital link.

 

[Sabrewulf165]

Yeah this is pretty old news, but it still makes my blood boil. I mean, I wouldn't even consider it an early adopters problem... HDTV has been around for several years now. Oh well, more greed and stupidity by the industries, just business as usual.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

Wait- so we end up paying for their copyright protection? Fat chance. I'll just buy the movie and then download the pirated versions off the internet.

 

[GotNoRice]

My TV is a slightly older Mitsubishi WS-55511 that looks and works perfect but only has component.

But that’s ok. The port that usually gets the most usage is the VGA port, and it looks like that isn’t going to change…

 

[Lord Twilight]

What makes my blood boil is that people aren't up in arms against the "Entertainment Industry" They're pulling all this crap and people are just casually accepting it. "Oh, I bought this HDTV a couple years ago and now it won't play HD content.. Oh well.. I'll just go buy another even though the one I already have is perfectly capable of displaying the content.."

Hmmm.. No HD-DVD for XBox 360?

 

[theNoid]

What makes my blood boil is that people aren't up in arms against the "Entertainment Industry" They're pulling all this crap and people are just casually accepting it. "Oh, I bought this HDTV a couple years ago and now it won't play HD content.. Oh well.. I'll just go buy another even though the one I already have is perfectly capable of displaying the content.."

Hmmm.. No HD-DVD for XBox 360?

There is HD DVD for the 360.. its an external device you can buy later. Games do not need the space available on Blu Ray and HD DVD, not even close. Even though the PS3 will have a Blu Ray drive, there might be maybe 2 games stamped on those disks ever. Its too expensive and nowhere need neccesary. Most PS3 games are going to stamp on DVD9, period.

Sony is using Blu Ray as a marketing tool to sell PS3, and usuing PS3s to get the technology out in large numbers. That is all.

ps. Thank God my HDTV supports HDMI

 

[Lord Twilight]

But if HD-DVD won't play it's full resolution over an analog cable, then who cares?

Game developers have already complained about the XBox 360 only using DVD because they want more space.

Sony had a huge influence in spreading DVD technology with the PS2, why do you think PS3 will be different?

Even though the PS3 will have a Blu Ray drive, there might be maybe 2 games stamped on those disks ever

Just wanted to quote that to look at in the future.

 

[mcq3000]

yeah yeah yeah, and you technophiles are the same ones that buy the spankiest new lcds every 2 years, when HDCP TVs come out by the buttload who are the first to buy them en masse? It certainly AINT your average joe.

Look at the 2407/2007. When its out watch how many [H]ard members suddenly dump their 2405s and suddenly ahev 2407s on their desks.

You all are the reason the industry keeps pulling this crap. People bought their 7800GT(X) thinking it had HDCP. GUESS WHAT! You got suckered. Now you got another reason to buy another SLI card in the next 4months. And lets not forget you need that new HD DVD drive too. And oh we are going to add drm to the digital audio stream too, so you need a new soundcard, and you will need a new drm id card to open that brand new blueray disc you just bought so we can make sure it is you watching it and.......

 

[Tutelary]

this is Very old news.
aka
so old it's olde.

 

[Foe-hammer]

But if HD-DVD won't play it's full resolution over an analog cable, then who cares?

Game developers have already complained about the XBox 360 only using DVD because they want more space.

Sony had a huge influence in spreading DVD technology with the PS2, why do you think PS3 will be different?

There is no difference in resolution limits between analog or digital. My "analog" FW900 CRT monitor displays well over the highest HDTV resolution of 1080p (not even an official HDTV res, yet) fine via vga analog.

On the contrary, most all devs have said DVD's have more then enough room for next gen gaming. And if a game comes out at the end of the 360's life cycle on TWO dvd's, whoopty freeking doo!

The situation between the ps2 and dvd, and the ps3 and blue-ray is much different. With the ps2 everyone already had a TV to use the dvd movie playback abilities, but with blue-ray not only do you need an HDTV, but those few who have an HDTV will have to junk it and buy another HDTV that supports HDCP. Huge difference.

 

[Tutelary]

not only do you need an HDTV, but those few who have an HDTV will have to junk it and buy another HDTV that supports HDCP. Huge difference.

not really. while there are a lot of people who dont have hdmi connections on their HD sets (roughly 6 or 7 million early adopters), a great many DO. I've had an HD set over a year which is hdmi 1.1 compliant. They have existed on the market for some time now.

 

[Foe-hammer]

not really. while there are a lot of people who dont have hdmi connections on their HD sets (roughly 6 or 7 million early adopters), a great many DO. I've had an HD set over a year which is hdmi 1.1 compliant. They have existed on the market for some time now.

HDCP is the problem here, not HDMI. While you need an HDMI port for HDCP, all early, and many new HDMI ready HDTV's do not have HDCP. And without HDCP you cannot view blue-ray or hd-dvd movies in high res. That is the issue.

So my argument still stands, less then 1% of the 10% of HDTV owners have the neccessary HDTV to view hd-dvd or blue-ray movies in high definition.

 

[mastercheeze]

Courtesy of doom9....

"The first version of AACS that will be used in the first HD DVD and Blu-ray discs, version 0.91, won't lock us all out from high definition content and currently will not enforce the HDCP video path for all HD content. So if you, as the rest of the world, has a GFX card that is not HDCP compatible along with a display that never heard of HDCP either, you'll escape the mandatory downscaling for the first few years.

As you may have read here in the past, the MPAA is currently trying to "plug the analog hole", as they put it, or slap copy protection on all analog recording and playback devices. The bill proposal that is currently circulating on the hill, includes a component that's apparently a big secret: VEIL content protection."

In the news section on the front page....

HDCP is the problem here, not HDMI. While you need an HDMI port for HDCP, all early, and many new HDMI ready HDTV's do not have HDCP. And without HDCP you cannot view blue-ray or hd-dvd movies in high res. That is the issue.

First off, you dont *need* HDMI for HDCP....HDMI is just the new wave of digital connections. Second, in all likelihood if your tv has HDMI, it has HDCP. HDCP signals can travel over DVI connections too (HDMI is essentially digital video + audio in one cable). You finally make a correct point in that without HDCP, you in all likelihood will not be able to view next-gen movie discs in hd. Without getting into a discussion of probability, that fact could change at any time - as long as Congress stays out of it.

Me, well...I'll be skipping the first round of HD discs and sticking with upconverted low-compression (superbit and the like) DVDs. The fact that I have a 720p set makes this somewhat easier for me.

 

[Tutelary]

HDCP is the problem here, not HDMI. While you need an HDMI port for HDCP, all early, and many new HDMI ready HDTV's do not have HDCP. And without HDCP you cannot view blue-ray or hd-dvd movies in high res. That is the issue.

So my argument still stands, less then 1% of the 10% of HDTV owners have the neccessary HDTV to view hd-dvd or blue-ray movies in high definition.

In the home video market, meeting hdmi 1.1 makes you hdcp compliant, you wont find sets labeled "hdcp compliant", you either have digital connections or you dont. The complications arise in the pc market.
You can stand by your statement all you like, its still wrong, the only people slated to have real problems were early adopters who have neither dvi or hdmi connections.

and sure you might not NEED hdmi, but dvi was just an in-betweener spec that has all but been dismissed (in home video)

 

[Foe-hammer]

In the home video market, meeting hdmi 1.1 makes you hdcp compliant, you wont find sets labeled "hdcp compliant", you either have digital connections or you dont. The complications arise in the pc market.
You can stand by your statement all you like, its still wrong, the only people slated to have real problems were early adopters who have neither dvi or hdmi connections.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Just because you have hdmi does not guarantee that it is hdcp compliant. I bought a sony crt hdtv less then a year ago with hdmi, and it is not hdcp compliant. My brother bought a samsung hdtv four months ago with hdmi, and it is also not hdcp compliant. Keep telling that to the people who actually own HDTV's with hdmi, and who are not hdcp ready.

Even if this was not the case, and every HDTV, even with component only, could use hd-dvd and blue-ray hdtv resolutions, the ps2 dvd and ps3 blue-ray argument is moot; people will still need an HDTV to view blue-ray movies in high res, whereas with ps2 and dvd EVERYONE ALREADY OWNED A TV, AND NOTHING MORE WAS NEEDED TO BUY.

 

[Tutelary]

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Just because you have hdmi does not guarantee that it is hdcp compliant. I bought a sony crt hdtv less then a year ago with hdmi, and it is not hdcp compliant. My brother bought a samsung hdtv four months ago with hdmi, and it is also not hdcp compliant. Keep telling that to the people who actually own HDTV's with hdmi, and who are not hdcp ready.

Even if this was not the case, and every HDTV, even with component only, could use hd-dvd and blue-ray hdtv resolutions, the ps2 dvd and ps3 blue-ray argument is moot; people will still need an HDTV to view blue-ray movies in high res, whereas with ps2 and dvd EVERYONE ALREADY OWNED A TV, AND NOTHING MORE WAS NEEDED TO BUY.

so this is really about you being angry at having to buy something..

 

[Foe-hammer]

so this is really about you being angry at having to buy something..

Whatever makes you happy.

 

[Lord Twilight]

so this is really about you being angry at having to buy something..

That's what I'm angry about!

I am NOT an early adopter. I still use a 5+ year old 17" CRT. What I don't want to do is buy a whole new shiney computer and big widescreen LCD screen only to have Hollywood decide that it isn't "secure" enough for me to watch a movie in all it's HD glory! It's just another thing that's being squeezed on similarly to iTunes just furthering the acceptance of DRM and eliminating fair use rights. All it does is make things more difficult for the average consumer and give the conglomerates more power than they already have.

Foe-hammer, you have a point that no one needed to buy a new TV for DVD's. I also realize that my statements above were incorrect because HDCP doesn't work over analog cables. It was a long day at work.. I was thinking that HDCP did affect analog which it does not, so it won't have an affect on XBox 360's add-on HD-DVD player. I stand corrected.

Of course what is really great here is that HDCP was invented to protect the DVI signal from being copied. There are no devices that I know of (at least at the consumer level) that are able to record from a DVI cable. So they made a protection against a device that doesn't exist..

 

[Dr_Gigolo]

What if you use a pretty good receiver as a video switch? Like a Denon AVR3806. It can supposedly convert HDMI to Component (never tried it though). What then? Will it still cut the resolution to a quarter? (don't know if the 3806 supports HDCP over HDMI though).

 

[IanG]

What if you use a pretty good receiver as a video switch? Like a Denon AVR3806. It can supposedly convert HDMI to Component (never tried it though). What then? Will it still cut the resolution to a quarter? (don't know if the 3806 supports HDCP over HDMI though).

Yes, it will cut the resolution. The switch won't be able to complete the HDCP handshake so the player will silently switch to the lower resolution.

That's what I'm angry about!
I am NOT an early adopter. I still use a 5+ year old 17" CRT. What I don't want to do is buy a whole new shiney computer and big widescreen LCD screen only to have Hollywood decide that it isn't "secure" enough for me to watch a movie in all it's HD glory!

It's their content and they can deliver it however they want. I honestly don't expect HD-media to become a big thing for a couple of years at least (how long did it take for dvd to surpass vhs?) y which time you will have got a shiney new computer and a big LCD and will be perfectly happy again.

I kind of see this as the way a lot of TVs disn't have svid before DVD players hit the market. I don't recall there being a huge uproar over that.Even the people with only RF inputs on their sets somehow managed to survive.

 

[Spazilton]

I have a Mitsu 65313 65" Projection HDTV, I know its not compliant. There is no way in hell I am going to shell out the money for a next gen DVD system only to have the resolution cut because someone doesnt think my system is secure.

There is a way to fight all this DRM that is being forced on us. Don't buy it, use it etc.. Vote with your wallets.