No BIOS-boot screen with DVI-I on new LCD, boot screen shows if hooked up Analog

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FarmDog

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Oct 29, 2007
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Searching the net many have this problem but I've yet to find an answer.

My problem:
New Samsung 215TW works fine on the DVI-D supplied cord but has no picture at boot-up until it reaches the Windows screen and reads digital. This will not allow me to see/enter BIOS or enter Safe Mode. If I hook the DVI-I ATI output to a VGA adapter and run the monitor through its analog input the boot screen and all displays as normal but the clarity is affected slightly so this is not acceptable long term.

My system has an ATI All In Wonder 8500DV video card with the latest driver that is Microsoft Digitally Signed installed from a Windows update that is not ControlCenter (I hate CC). There is a newer driver that can be installed (6.11) but it uses CC, not sure if this would help however, might try it but I doubt it would help.


Running Windows XP SP2 and all latest updates, including latest Samsung monitor driver. Windows is using the 215TW as primary monitor.

Looking at the pin-outs comparing DVI-D to DVI-I shows the 4 pins (c1 through c4) are absent from DVI-D but appear to carry Analog RedGreenBlue. Wondering if this is any way the problem between DVI-I and DVI-D? If so, was there some change in how DVI-D carries a signal to show boot screen? Perhaps it has nothing to do with DVI-I vs DVI-D, but I'm searching for the answer.
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Digital_Visual_Interface_DVI_Bus.html

I assume most of you with video cards that have DVI outputs are able to see your boot screen and access your BIOS without problem. I'm lost at a solution other than possibly a splitter like this DVI-I to DVI and VGA:
http://sewelldirect.com/dvi-to-dvi-and-vga-splitter-cable-1ft.asp

I read somewhere where one person tried this and it did work, he booted in VGA then the monitor switched to digital once Windows started? I can live without seeing my boot screen every day, just would like to be able to enter BIOS or SafeMode when needed without having to climb under the desk with a flashlight and changing cables since DVI-I combines digital and analog without two separate outputs.

Is there a simpler solution or a setting I might be missing?
 
enyceexdanny said:
Have you tried changing any settings in regards to power saving?
Click to expand...


I'm currently set in Windows for home/office monitor off in 15 minutes HD off in 45 system standby never. But I have no problem with it waking from sleep (if thats what you mean). I have seen others did have that problem.


Some of us are not able to see our boot screen when hooked up through our DVI ports. I can see the boot screen no problem if I hook up through the VGA/Analog side but that's not what I want for every day use. It works great in every way once Windows starts. This problem appears to go back several years but I've not seen a solution posted anywhere. Could be I have to run the splitter like I mentioned in my first post.

Here is another post from the video card section with the same problem.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1247565

To add a bit more info:
The monitor power button blinks during boot as if it's in sleep until Windows starts, then the backlight turns on and the power button goes solid as Windows and my programs finish booting. I can see everything that loads once Windows starts and the backlight turns on.
 
the problem is just a bad card, or more specifically bad DVI ports.

It's just a quality control issue, and it crops up even on brand new cards. I got an 8800GT last week and had to RMA it because of the same problem, no signal over DVI-D but DVI->VGA was fine. I tested it in two different machines, on two different monitors, and with three different cables, so I was able to narrow it down with 100% certainty to the card itself being faulty. We'll see what BFG has to say about it. My guess is they won't say anything and just send out a new card which will hopefully not have the same symptoms.

Only difference between my situation and yours was that I couldn't get a picture over DVI at all, even after it had booted to Windows.

Also, drivers would not have any impact on the card's ability to display the POST and BIOS screens, since the drivers don't load until Windows loads.
 
Blahman said:
the problem is just a bad card, or more specifically bad DVI ports.
Click to expand...

That's true, monitor or video card drivers aren't going to have an affect before Windows. Could very well be a bad DVI port. Figuring out if it's the monitor, cable or video card might be a bit of a trick without others to try.

Next step will be to see if I can figure out which DVI pin carries the signal for boot and check it for voltage and unseat the video card to make sure the connects are clean. This card has been in the system 4-5 years and I like it, don't really want to replace it and the OEM's are hell bent on making our AGP obsolete.

If anyone reads this that has a DVI-I output, are you able to see your boot screen on a DVI-D monitor/cable?
 
yes, I tried an 8800GTS 640mb, which has the same DVI-I connectors as the bad 8800GT. Using the same cables & monitors, it displayed the POST, BIOS and boot screens perfectly. So for me at least, it was not a matter of bad cables or ports on the monitors. Just a bum card. And I suspect the same may be true for you, although it couldn't hurt to clean the pins/leads and try again.
 
Blahman said:
yes, I tried an 8800GTS 640mb, which has the same DVI-I connectors as the bad 8800GT. Using the same cables & monitors, it displayed the POST, BIOS and boot screens perfectly. So for me at least, it was not a matter of bad cables or ports on the monitors. Just a bum card. And I suspect the same may be true for you, although it couldn't hurt to clean the pins/leads and try again.
Click to expand...

Ok, that answers that part. I was wondering looking at the pinout diagram in the link that showed the 4 extra pins on DVI-I carried VGA that are not on a DVI-D and had to wonder if they had changed the format where a DVI-I would not show boot on a DVI-D even though every site I've read say that is not a problem.
 
This has happened with all my LCD monitors since I went DVI....the monitor is slower to kick on with digital DVI for some reason...I could generally just catch the end of my boot screen before the display would kick on.

The best thing I can think of is finding out what key takes you into bios and start tapping it once you turn the power on....once you are in the BIOS try and see if your main board has something like quick boot if it does disable it and then the BIOS post should stay up longer while it does some more advanced diagnostic at boot up thus allowing your display to wake up....
 
loker said:
This has happened with all my LCD monitors since I went DVI....the monitor is slower to kick on with digital DVI for some reason...I could generally just catch the end of my boot screen before the display would kick on.

The best thing I can think of is finding out what key takes you into bios and start tapping it once you turn the power on....once you are in the BIOS try and see if your main board has something like quick boot if it does disable it and then the BIOS post should stay up longer while it does some more advanced diagnostic at boot up thus allowing your display to wake up....
Click to expand...

I read one response somewhere where one of the OEM's responded to someone with this problem and said the same you are saying. They said the computer was faster than the monitor therefore not able to see the post screen. Not sure that's my problem though, this seems to wake very quickly. My board is Gigabyte with AMI BIOS, I tried what you said a couple days ago and it would not show my BIOS no matter how long it sat there, I could tell the system stopped and the BIOS must be opened but I couldn't view it, hit return and it continued boot. It will show BIOS and allow me in no problem if I hook up VGA however.

I've looked several times for something in BIOS that might affect it but saw nothing. I'll have another look later and see if I have anything like what you mentioned but I don't remember seeing anything like that. In Samsungs FAQ's they say there is nothing in BIOS that will have affect on the monitor, though obviously they can't cover every situation.
 
I think the problem is how the card works.

The VGA port is the Primary and the DVI is the secondary.
When you boot your computer the POST is just show in the primary display.
Then Windows load and the drivers switch the ports (Vga as secondary and DVI as primary)

The solution is to tell the card to use the DVI port as primary at Bios level, but I don't know if there is this option in you Bios.
 
Chartal said:
I think the problem is how the card works.

The VGA port is the Primary and the DVI is the secondary.
When you boot your computer the POST is just show in the primary display.
Then Windows load and the drivers switch the ports (Vga as secondary and DVI as primary)

The solution is to tell the card to use the DVI port as primary at Bios level, but I don't know if there is this option in you Bios.
Click to expand...

this is incorrect. we're talking about DVI-I so VGA is built into the DVI-I port with 4 pins sending the analog signal while the rest send the digital signal. in a properly functioning card, both digital and analog signals are sent simultaneously, even before Windows loads. you can verify this by getting a splitter that takes both the analog and digital components and breaks them out into two connectors. both should work at the same time producing a cloned image on two monitors.
 
I found this awesome site full of info. Talks about this problem. I haven't had time to review it yet, will tomorrow.
http://www.playtool.com/pages/dvitrouble/dvitrouble.html


This also shows the pins and what they do if you click the connector that says color coded DVI, click it on the second screen and it gets big enough to read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI


My DVI-D single link cable is showing throughput with an ohmmeter on all pins except the spade (c5) and #24.
 
For what it's worth, my latest findings.

Tested my cable and video card outputs. Pin #8 that carries analog signal on DVI reads .015v (on a 2v scale) and all other pinouts other than the center pins not used by a single link DVI have voltage. The odd thing is pin #24 has 1.23v out (on a 20v scale) but the DVI-D single link cable does not have throughput on that pin. I called Samsung and spoke with level2 and was told pin 24 is not needed. A bit odd considering I have output from the card there, but whatever. His opinion was some monitors and video cards have compatibility issues and this combination likely boots too fast for the monitor to turn on in DVI. Had no real answer why it works in VGA but not DVI. I just wonder if this has anything to do with the supposed lag of this monitor. I highly doubt it because I've not seen or felt lag personally in regular computing. The Samsung tech did think using a DVI-I to DVI and VGA splitter would work. Kinda sucks to have to do that but I'm not hearing any hope of possible fixes in the works.
 
I want to correct something I said here.

I had misread the pinout diagrams. The diagrams are showing the female output socket and not the male cable end. I had misinterpreted pin #8 for pin #24. I had thought my cable had no throughput with an ohmmeter on pin #24 but that is actually pin #8. According to Sun Microsystems site pin #8 is not used on DVI-D but is shown on DVI-I as "Analog Vertical Sync".
http://www.sunshack.org/data/sh/2.1...evices/Monitor/MONITOR_Connector_Pinouts.html

So guess my cable is fine. Must be a BIOS issue. ATI's site mentions disabling USB to see if that is a conflict with the video BIOS. Do not do this if you have only a USB keyboard. Mine is Logitech cordless with USB to PS2 adapter so disabling USB is ok in my case.

Update edit:
Disabled all USB in BIOS, did not help. Even tried disabling
"power on with left click of mouse", no change.

I do believe this is similar to what Chartal mentioned above but is handled internally by the video card BIOS I assume and with one DVI-I output (at least in my case) I have no option to change this and motherboard BIOS only deals with VGA out via AGP or PCI which I'm obviously AGP enabled.

The last thing I'm probably going to try is to take the monitor to someone else's computer and see if a newer computer shows a post screen through DVI. Then from there I'll either be forced to live with it, try the splitter, or see if the OEM's will give us an updated BIOS. My bet is they know exactly what the glitch is but "they've never heard of this problem, you're the first one", translated that means "we don't admit to anything, especially when it might force you to buy a new product". There are so many features on an ATI All In Wonder anything else looks like steps back.


I've also gotten conflicting reports on using a DVI-I to DVI and VGA splitter. Some say it will work, some say it wont, and others say it will work as long as you only hook one side at a time. My card is made for outputting to a monitor and TV at the same time so I suspect it might at least work one at a time.
 
A local computer shop was nice enough to allow me to boot my monitor on one of their new computers. The post and BIOS enter screen showed without problem hooked through DVI-D port on their machine which eliminates the monitor and cable as the problem.

They told me the MB in their machine had integrated video with DVI out and the BIOS on that machine had an option for setting output to DVI. They thought maybe not having a DVI output option in my BIOS might be the problem. I forgot to ask if they meant they had separate VGA and DVI outputs and the BIOS allowed one or the other, or if they meant there was a VGA out by way of DVI. In any case they think it's my MB bios. I've eliminated cable and monitor, so it has to be MB or video card BIOS. Think I'll forward this thread to Gigabyte and ATI and see if they have an answer.

By the way, my MB (8IHXP rev2.1) BIOS has not had an update from Gigabyte since 2003. I called AMI yesterday and was told I have the latest for my board and no update available.
 
@FarmDog: time to upgrade!

As for my problem...
i got a different brand 8800GT and it displays the POST and BIOS screens just fine unlike the first one that went to RMA and should be coming back tomorrow. I'll check the serial number on it to make sure they didn't just send my card right back, then try it in my system and see if it has the same problem. If yes its a video BIOS problem since these cards use the same hardware, just different BIOS and quality assurance. If no then it was just a bum card. I'm figuring it was just a bum card because I haven't seen anyone else with my specific card and problem so it has to be a random occurence.
 
Blahman said:
@FarmDog: time to upgrade!
Click to expand...

Upgrade? I cringe at that word, this one cost $2500 to build back then. I can capture video without dropped frames so not sure what else I need. It still feels faster than the store computers so until they pry it from my cold dead fingers Hell I don't use DOS on my monochrome any longer though I still own a 486 Win98 with 14" monitor that I "upgraded" from a 386 Win3.1. BTW...that old MAG 14" put the colors and text quality on my 19" CRT to shame, and it still works as a backup once in a while. Nothing I've owned comes close to the clarity of this LCD however, amazing the detail I never knew was there.

Looks like you are getting a handle on yours and I feel I at least have livable answers, if not perfect. My main concern was I had 30 days for no questions asked return but mainly I have a $100 rebate to send in within 30 days of purchase so was holding back on that until I was sure the monitor was not the problem.

Think I'm going to break down this week and buy a digital camera (Canon S5 IS most likely because I need the zoom). I've resisted because as far as I'm concerned the cam companies have set back photography a decade. The average public was just adopting 35mm SLR's as a norm when they set them back to 3x zoom instamatic look-a-likes. They still don't make what I want. I want....no viewfinder, no SLR but bigger 3-4" swivel LCD in real time without stopping during shots (I shoot pics from waist level) interchangeable lens, and a sensor the same quality as film and be able to take pics like that at 5fps or better.


After thought:
Actually I avoid upgrading because this combination of P4-2.26, 512meg 1066RDRAM, Intel 850 chipset ,winXP has been rock solid stable and has never missed a beat and maybe had to hit reset 3-4 times in the 5 years or so I've had it. Afraid to fix what's not broke.
 
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