http://www.game-science.com/
this could lead to some very interesting games. FYI, this is NOT the next gameboy.
this could lead to some very interesting games. FYI, this is NOT the next gameboy.
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Nintendo's New Machine: Dual-Display Portable
- Thread starter trilobyte
- Start date
Makes you wonder how long it will be before consoles go DualHead and you can plug 2 TVs into your XcubeStation for similar functionality. Given that nVidia & ATI already had this as standard in their PC chipsets for a couple of generations, it probably wouldn't be hard to do, and be a neat USP for the first to do it.
As suggested, you could have the normal view on "main screen" with, say, stats & automap on secondary. I don't know why more PC games don't support this (instead of spanning the main view across both screens), but then again not many Joe Publics have dual monitors.
[k]
As suggested, you could have the normal view on "main screen" with, say, stats & automap on secondary. I don't know why more PC games don't support this (instead of spanning the main view across both screens), but then again not many Joe Publics have dual monitors.
[k]
Eh, I'm a little skeptical on that functionality hitting the mainstream. 2 monitors sitting on a computer desk is one thing- hauling a second 27" (or higher!) TV in from another room just to have a dual display console experience seems far more unlikely...
..not to mention aggravating to parents everywhere!
ThreeDee
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just use picture in picture mode on yer tele.....
Well, we had the GC hooked up to the GBA... that was cool in a few games. We had the DC with is VMU's I loved those little guys. I'm thinking the dedicated small screen is a better option for those tasks. Two TVs would rarely be used by anyone.
e_t
e_t
Torgo
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Destined to fail. Too soon after the Advance SP release and it isn't the next Gamecube. It doesn't fit any real niche for a gamer. What's going to happen once the novelty of the two screens fades away?
Interesting to note that PC games have had dual-monitor capability for years now and how many game take advantage of it and make it a key selling point? Yep, that's what I thought. Nintendo's DS is just a synonym for DOA.
Interesting to note that PC games have had dual-monitor capability for years now and how many game take advantage of it and make it a key selling point? Yep, that's what I thought. Nintendo's DS is just a synonym for DOA.
You know what would be a smart use of a 2nd monitor?
Not necessarily have the 'other half' of the game on the second display, but rather make use of some in-game prefs such as communication between players and whatnot.
Think about it- how cool would it be to have a whole console on the second monitor of all the players on your team with their skins, locations in the game, and the ability to issue direct commands to each player with little submenus & such..?
Now, how someone accesses that menu is not something I've hashed out yet, but I'm an idea man- let someone else work it out.
Not necessarily have the 'other half' of the game on the second display, but rather make use of some in-game prefs such as communication between players and whatnot.
Think about it- how cool would it be to have a whole console on the second monitor of all the players on your team with their skins, locations in the game, and the ability to issue direct commands to each player with little submenus & such..?
Now, how someone accesses that menu is not something I've hashed out yet, but I'm an idea man- let someone else work it out.
Torgo, you have no facts what so ever to back that statement up.
You also fail to realize that if game devs do make dual mon games, that most computers would be able to render that.
...........Props to Nintendo for revolutionizing the market, and hopefully pushing forwards with what I think is a fantastic idea!
You also fail to realize that if game devs do make dual mon games, that most computers would be able to render that.
...........Props to Nintendo for revolutionizing the market, and hopefully pushing forwards with what I think is a fantastic idea!
Acceptable_Risk
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This does strike me as kind of reminiscent of the Virtual Boy which had similarly "revolutionary" display technology. While it was cool, it got squeezed out between Nintendo's main portable and home consoles.
Torgo
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I'm assuming that you're referring to the "Destined to fail". Okay, let's get some facts, even if they're light on the new DS, to go along with that statement.
What do we know about the DS currently? Well, we know that the unit has two 3-inch screens stacked on top of each other. This would make the unit almost twice as big as the GBA-SP. Current estimates have the price being 20,000 yen which is $187 or so. Again, twice as much as the GBA-SP. The screens are finally backlit so it should be easier to see. Bloomberg Japan, talked to Nintendo and confirmed that the Nintendo DS, is not being created to take over the Game Boy Advance's market. The company also confirmed that a separate machine is being developed as a next-generation successor for the GBA. According to Nintendo's public relations chief Yasuhiro Minagawa, "The development of succeeding machines for the GBA and Game Cube are in the works, separately from the Nintendo DS." It's also using an ARM9 processor and an ARM7 processor and supposedly 1 Gigabit of RAM. Release is around Q4 of this year.
We don't know if it's backwards compatible (although the ARM7 could be used for that), what it actually looks like, or button configuration. We don't know about battery life or if any game developers are lined up. All this is expected to be answered at E3.
Okay, let's start putting the pieces together along with some other facts. We know this isn't a replacement for the SP. It's not a replacement for the GC. So doesn't that make this a niche platform? The X-Factor here is cost and going head to head with Sony's PSP. While the PSP is rumored to be going to sell around $400, the DS is still selling against it. However, it's also still going to compete against the GBA-SP (being $100 cheaper) and the mature platforms of the PS2, X-Box and GC. Price cuts for the first two are just around the corner so the DS still costs more.
Lastly, what's the compelling interest to buying the DS? If you have a GBA... what's making you buy this? The two screens? That's it? That's an awful lot of money to spend on a feature that makes your portable game player twice as big as what you already have. Nintendo currently doesn't have anything to show other than a piece of paper. Sure, the Big N is going to be having a huge booth at E3 dedicated to this hardware, but even then I'd be worried if they have the development time to get something good running on it in time for release.
Want more facts? There's only been one portable that's been successful -- The Gameboy. The three generations of the GB have crushed other wannabes like Atari, Sega, NEC and Nokia. Nintendo is so good that they crush other products they've introduced like the Virtual Boy. The DS if it manages to survive for more than a few months is about to get assaulted by the newer consoles. Normally, a low price point has shelted Nintendo's handheld market, but at this price it puts it in a higher bracket.
There's other boring facts like Nintendo's oppressive royalty structure, their current financial status that play roles in it to. Not to say that Nintendo can't make this interesting. It all depends on the DS being backward compatible with GBA titles and a killer game on release. But right now, the stars are aligned against the little DS. Destiny does fortell bad omens ahead.
Oh, and your other point about dual monitors. It's not that if game developers make dual monitor games that most computers can render them. That's irrelevant. Maybe half of the computers off the shelf can do a dual-head features, but the vast, vast majority of PCs in the market place can't. Even then you need a separate monitor and the desk space to do it. Game developers aren't going to put dual-monitor capability in a game simply because they don't need to. Other than flight sims, you can could on one hand how many games use it. Are there uses for it? Sure, but not enough for most people to go out and spend a few hundred bucks to get the card and monitor to do so and get burn-in from having a static screen constantly up. Game UI and screen resolution have progressed where it's not a big issue.
Hope this helps.
^^^Great post.
The thing is, even though I dont really like the idea, I must give Nintendo credit about being original. They have battled quite a few wannabe companies and trampled them, they have enough momentum to make Sony's PSP the last of it's kind. But will this momentum carry through to the DS? Maybe, maybe not. It would be sweet though, but we will just have to wait...
PSYKOMANTIS
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GBA SP (used) 80 dollars
GBA Adapter for Gamecube 50 dollars
Gamecube 80 Dollars (used)
512MB flashrom cart with USB programming cable 140 dollars
Being able to play the whole NES collection on your Gamecube, or GBA without swapping carts... Priceless
The DS is going to be interesting. I used to have a bunch of those fold up Nintendo "Game and Watch" gadgets. They used to have dual screens and they fucking ruled. I could see playing Legend of Zelda (future title name here) and seeing your inventory, and shit you collected on one screen. While on the other screen you get your gameplay.
Namco is talking about a possible dual screen Ridge Racer.
Sounds like some heavy pimp'n to me!
Now that's what I'm talking about Willis!
Psyko M.
GBA Adapter for Gamecube 50 dollars
Gamecube 80 Dollars (used)
512MB flashrom cart with USB programming cable 140 dollars
Being able to play the whole NES collection on your Gamecube, or GBA without swapping carts... Priceless
The DS is going to be interesting. I used to have a bunch of those fold up Nintendo "Game and Watch" gadgets. They used to have dual screens and they fucking ruled. I could see playing Legend of Zelda (future title name here) and seeing your inventory, and shit you collected on one screen. While on the other screen you get your gameplay.
Namco is talking about a possible dual screen Ridge Racer.
Sounds like some heavy pimp'n to me!
Now that's what I'm talking about Willis!
Psyko M.
Torgo
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I see a lot of people mentioning using an inventory screen as a reason to use the second screen. There's a small problem with that though. Look how you use the inventory screen today in a RPG or similar game. You press a button, the game pauses and the inventory screen pops up. You make your changes, confirm with another button press and the screen disappears and action resumes.
With me so far? Okay, here's the thing. Whenever you're jacking around with your inventory in almost all cases the game is paused. There's no need at that point for a second screen. Your attention is fully focused on the inventory at that point. It's just as simple to just use one screen.
The second screen only becomes useful when there is consistant action on both screens or as a real-time status monitor. The example of playing a sports game with two views (one close-up another of the full playing field) has been used. Another would be a status field constantly monitoring health, status, etc.
I'm just not seeing this as much of a revolution as much as a way to clean up the first screen from UI clutter. If that's the case, then it's just a way of overcoming the small resolution of a three inch screen. (Which BTW is one reason that PCs haven't had so much of a problem with in the past five years. A screen resolution of 1600 x 1200 can display a UI and gameplay without being an issue.)
One question I'd like to ask. Since the two displays are stacked on top of each other... isn't this just essentially the equivalent of just making one big long screen and mandating to developers that you have to divide the screen into two? Or do you even have to? Being able to play something like Ikaruga on one big long screen... now that's got my attention.
With me so far? Okay, here's the thing. Whenever you're jacking around with your inventory in almost all cases the game is paused. There's no need at that point for a second screen. Your attention is fully focused on the inventory at that point. It's just as simple to just use one screen.
The second screen only becomes useful when there is consistant action on both screens or as a real-time status monitor. The example of playing a sports game with two views (one close-up another of the full playing field) has been used. Another would be a status field constantly monitoring health, status, etc.
I'm just not seeing this as much of a revolution as much as a way to clean up the first screen from UI clutter. If that's the case, then it's just a way of overcoming the small resolution of a three inch screen. (Which BTW is one reason that PCs haven't had so much of a problem with in the past five years. A screen resolution of 1600 x 1200 can display a UI and gameplay without being an issue.)
One question I'd like to ask. Since the two displays are stacked on top of each other... isn't this just essentially the equivalent of just making one big long screen and mandating to developers that you have to divide the screen into two? Or do you even have to? Being able to play something like Ikaruga on one big long screen... now that's got my attention.
Ya, I am a nintendo fan, but this does not sound interesting to me at all.
Someone mentioned the virtual boy, and this does remind me of it. I have no desire for a second screen. My GBA SP is enough for me.
Untill I know more about this, I am not interested.
Someone mentioned the virtual boy, and this does remind me of it. I have no desire for a second screen. My GBA SP is enough for me.
Untill I know more about this, I am not interested.
I personally smell a flop coming, but as for speculation as to what it might be useful for:
RTS games. Imagine one screen is you normal zoomed in gameplay screen, hold a shoulder button, and suddenly you are zipping all over the world map on screen two with the joypad. and using the other shoulder button to cycle through units on the screen.
final fantasy type games:
use it as one big screen while running around, and then in battles, watch the fight on one screen as you work on the other screen managing you players combat.
two player games:
one cart, one DS, one old GBA from your closet, and now you can play two player co-op games with your buddy. (more or less cool depending on how articulation of the screens works, and off-axis viewing quality. But we all know the console is the razor, and the game is the razorblades. game X is cool for $30, but 2player is a $60 investment to try out?
There's plenty of ideas for it, the question is fi any of them are really compelling. Unless there's a killer app that ships a lot of units, I say not likely.
RTS games. Imagine one screen is you normal zoomed in gameplay screen, hold a shoulder button, and suddenly you are zipping all over the world map on screen two with the joypad. and using the other shoulder button to cycle through units on the screen.
final fantasy type games:
use it as one big screen while running around, and then in battles, watch the fight on one screen as you work on the other screen managing you players combat.
two player games:
one cart, one DS, one old GBA from your closet, and now you can play two player co-op games with your buddy. (more or less cool depending on how articulation of the screens works, and off-axis viewing quality. But we all know the console is the razor, and the game is the razorblades. game X is cool for $30, but 2player is a $60 investment to try out?
There's plenty of ideas for it, the question is fi any of them are really compelling. Unless there's a killer app that ships a lot of units, I say not likely.
WickedAngel
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Maybe they should try supporting the systems that are out now...the Gamecube had, what, two exclusive games worth playing this Fall?
Torgo
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Ah, I needed the laugh this evening. RTS games just don't work on a tiny handheld. That's why they don't exist. (Or quickly fail.) Seriously, can anyone name a RTS game on the GBA? I'm talking a game along the lines of Warcraft, Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, etc.
DUDE, I guess you never saw the sleeper hit Warlocked for Gameboy Color. I'm one of the lucky few that has a copy. It's seriously Warcraft for the Gameboy. I admit that they haven't made a portable RTS of it's caliber since, though. You can't count Advance Wars...they are totally different.
Warlocked was REAL-TIME...not some, motion video strategy hybrid like Advance Wars.
Check out Warlocked here. http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/163/163959p1.html
If that's not enough, they're making a sequel for the GBA which you can check out here. http://www.bitsstudios.com/wizards/default.asp
I believe they had game footage on that site the last time I checked.
cool another virtual-boy
Thank god for Sony. Even if the PSP sux, at least it's making Nin do some new shit. It's BEYOND fking pathetic how the game boy has progressed. Do you realize it's basically the same as it was almost 10 years ago when it first came out? Cept now it has color, yey.
Thank god for Sony. Even if the PSP sux, at least it's making Nin do some new shit. It's BEYOND fking pathetic how the game boy has progressed. Do you realize it's basically the same as it was almost 10 years ago when it first came out? Cept now it has color, yey.
Torgo
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Harkamus, thanks for the link. The IGN article goes into the interface which is what I'm most curious about. Reviews at other sites seem to either really like or hate it. One thing about the review it states "The biggest challenge was getting the somewhat complex interface of a real-time strategy game squashed onto the tiny Game Boy Color screen without feeling cramped. And I feel that Bits Studios did a fantastic job with the control scheme; you'll never leave the main screen to tell your Grunts to build a farm, castle, or guard tower, since the interface is done via a small set of icons at the bottom of the screen."
Very interesting. I need try it sometime. Although this review seems to eliminate the need for two screens to play an RTS. I guess it all comes down to game design and UI design.
Very interesting. I need try it sometime. Although this review seems to eliminate the need for two screens to play an RTS. I guess it all comes down to game design and UI design.
butterfliesrpretty
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Damn why all the hate. I honestly doubt this thing will succeed but I always like to see something new come out. Innovation is second hand to graphics anymore.
You people are judging this and it hasn't even came out yet. I think its a great idea.
You people are judging this and it hasn't even came out yet. I think its a great idea.
Acceptable_Risk
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I don't think there's much hate around. It's just that there isn't much optimism. I think most people will admit that they're merely speculating, but we don't have a lot of good news to go on. What Nintendo needs to do is give the media something to help their fears. Instead of just telling us it's gonna be awesome and giving us a couple of hypothetical uses they need to show us some design ideas tell us what third parties they have making software. If they plan on having playable hardware and software in May at E3, they have to be far enough along in development to give us some more facts.
Steve_010
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Well its nintendo's job to make it interesting. If any of you guys think that they dont alleady have ideas for at least 2 dozen games for this thing that are new and inovative that couldn't normally be played on a single screen then I think you guys are kidding yourselves. A multi million dollar project such as a new gaming system doesnt get made if nobody has any game ideas for it.
We're all (including me) sitting here on our asses discussing (and some dissing) this new system while nintendo is most likely just as far along with the design of their launch games as they are with the design for the system itself.
Two words.....not constructive
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