Nintendo NX Might Ditch Disc Drives For Cartridges

Megalith

Megalith

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I want to make a cartridge-blowing joke, but apparently that never actually did anything.

Nintendo has long played to it’s own tune, content to wait to deliver the surprising news over it’s upcoming Nintendo NX console in it’s own time. Yet one it’s biggest partners may have let slip about one of the consoles more interesting features – the notion that it may be doing away with game discs all together and replacing them with ROM cartridges (Similar to the 3DS). The speculation begins with Japanese Financial website Money-Link; which has indicated that Nintendo’s long time producer of ROM chips Macronix is expecting a bumper order from Nintendo in the latter half of this year for it’s products.
 
Makes sense. Memory capacity and prices plus an internet connection make cartridges a very good alternative to discs. Add in the durability and nostalgia with the feeling of plugging in a cartridge and it's a really good move and helps differentiate Nintendo from the competition.

They could include a writeable section so that saved games would be on the cartridge instead of the console. Play a game with your friend at your place, save, and pick it back up at their place later.
 
That'seexactl="jfreund, post: 1042279855, member: 143327"]Makes sense. Memory capacity and prices plus an internet connection make cartridges a very good alternative to discs. Add in the durability and nostalgia with the feeling of plugging in a cartridge and it's a really good move and helps differentiate Nintendo from the competition.

They could include a writeable section so that saved games would be on the cartridge instead of the console. Play a game with your friend at your place, save, and pick it back up at their place later.[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly what I was thinking.
 
If you remember, Nintendo was the last to ditch cartridges with their Nintendo 64, and mostly because developers were screaming for extra storage space despite the disadvantages of the technology. And they never, ever used optical media in their portable devices (unlike Sony which tried UMD discs which I've heard were horrible in a portable device).

If anyone can bring cartridges back, it's Nintendo. I never liked discs, and I hope this Nintendo manages to bring back some of the magic of the pre-Gamecube era. I'm so disenchanted with these cookie-cutter PC pseudo-consoles that are selling well these days.

It's funny how the core of cartridge technology, flash memory, is now powering USB sticks and SSDs... and no one thought it would ever be better than optical media or have better capacity.
 
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This sounds like nothing other than a cash grab by Nintendo. Of course the cartridges will come with a huge licensing fee, so Nintendo will get a significant cut of any titles, whether they are actually sold to gamers or eventually end up in a landfill.

Nintendo doesn't seem to understand its string of mistakes that have caused its consoles to be outsold by rivals for generations. Nintendo is just sitting on the console and chanting "mine, mine, mine". So glwt.
 
jfreund said:
Add in the durability and nostalgia with the feeling of plugging in a cartridge and it's a really good move and helps differentiate Nintendo from the competition.
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I wouldn't care about nostalgia...the faster load times would be why I care!
 
I'd buy the new Nintendo console given it had good games (besides it's core Mario, Zelda, Metroid, ect..), better graphics and a non-gimmicky controller.
 
I can see it happening. More storage space than Blu-ray and just as fast as an SSD if done properly. Figure a game is nearly 40-50gigs. Slap it on a 60gig ssd and use a separate flash device for game saves like back in the PS1 PS2 days.

You get the speed and massive storage compared to disc format. Then we still actually own our games instead of praying to whoever controls the server overlords hoping they don't stop serving our games we already purchased.
 
I like cartridges, as they are not susceptible to scratches or finger prints, and are generally more durable than optical disc.
 
cartridge based systems should be so easy now with how cheap flash ram is getting. each cartridge could just be a big casing with a flash drive inside. and sizing for each game could be adjusted too. too big for 4Gb bump it to and 8GB chip. read only section for the game and read/write for save files. low load times. it would be perfect!

MNKyDeth said:
Slap it on a 60gig ssd and use a separate flash device for game saves like back in the PS1 PS2 days.
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this would work too!
 
I have to agree with others that have said cartridges would actually probably make more sense these days than optical discs. Back when discs replaced cartridges, they offered tons more space. These days you can get a 128gb flash drive that is the size of a quarter and reads/writes at way faster speeds than any disc option. I'd assume a cartridge is much more stable in the long run, too. No more worrying about a tiny scratch that causes your game to freeze up or whatever.
 
It won't happen.

When we think about how cheap flash drives are, for example $10 for 64GB, and even if we can assume a game publisher could get them/write them for $2, not including all the other packaging materials which would be similar for both optical disk and flash, an optical disk is still much cheaper.

We can buy a 50 pack of 50GB Bluray disks for about $100 on Amazon, so $2/disk. A huge game publisher probably gets them for <$0.50.

At least in this example of 5x cost difference between retail and OEM pricing for the flash drive, the disk would be $0.40.

A game manufacturer is going to squeeze all the margins they can. $2 vs. $0.40, an extra $1.60 in margin, is a huge amount.

Anyways, don't really know the exact difference in cost but the point stands, the optical disk is still cheaper than the flash drive, and therefore the game publishers will continue to use it.
 
Nintendo isn't stupid enough to push NAND flash cartridges back into their console, the price alone would kill their extremely high margins.
 
It's more difficult to pirate, though, and that may be enough of a reason to spend a little more. I personally agree that it's a good time for carts to make a return. Previously, games were limited by the processor's supported amount of memory. Now they're limited by the memory available on optical devices, not the processor. A cart would completely eliminate the cap. Games are currently almost maxing single-layer Blu-ray at 20+ GB. The load time advantage over other consoles is a bonus.
 
The idea is nice for a perfomance viewpoint im just not really sure i like the added

You could just as well add in the Storage part as a cache in the actualy units.. yes first load of the game would be slow since you need to read from the slower ODD but once load you could preload the game into the cache and you would get most of the speed gains at a way less cost.
 
The one thing that does concern me is connector wear, but I presume that they'll have the connectors pinch down rather than slide in. I want to say that they did this with a later Famicom/Super Famicom model.
 
Xrave said:
It won't happen.

When we think about how cheap flash drives are, for example $10 for 64GB, and even if we can assume a game publisher could get them/write them for $2, not including all the other packaging materials which would be similar for both optical disk and flash, an optical disk is still much cheaper.

We can buy a 50 pack of 50GB Bluray disks for about $100 on Amazon, so $2/disk. A huge game publisher probably gets them for <$0.50.

At least in this example of 5x cost difference between retail and OEM pricing for the flash drive, the disk would be $0.40.

A game manufacturer is going to squeeze all the margins they can. $2 vs. $0.40, an extra $1.60 in margin, is a huge amount.

Anyways, don't really know the exact difference in cost but the point stands, the optical disk is still cheaper than the flash drive, and therefore the game publishers will continue to use it.
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I think the idea is to drop the optical drive and make the console even cheaper. Cheaper razor, more expensive blades and all that. Especially if the SoC doesn't have a sata controller. That and pirating would be a messier prospect. And it would be flash + rom perhaps? Haven't even thought about rom density in awhile.
 
Xrave said:
It won't happen.

When we think about how cheap flash drives are, for example $10 for 64GB, and even if we can assume a game publisher could get them/write them for $2, not including all the other packaging materials which would be similar for both optical disk and flash, an optical disk is still much cheaper.

We can buy a 50 pack of 50GB Bluray disks for about $100 on Amazon, so $2/disk. A huge game publisher probably gets them for <$0.50.

At least in this example of 5x cost difference between retail and OEM pricing for the flash drive, the disk would be $0.40.

A game manufacturer is going to squeeze all the margins they can. $2 vs. $0.40, an extra $1.60 in margin, is a huge amount.

Anyways, don't really know the exact difference in cost but the point stands, the optical disk is still cheaper than the flash drive, and therefore the game publishers will continue to use it.
Click to expand...
Less expensive, but as pxc and NExUS1g pointed out, there are many advantages to cartridges that would make up for it. I think the nostalgia factor would also help restore Nintendo's image, making it seem like they actually give a crap about what consumers want. Updates could potentially even be done on the cartridge itself, reducing the size or eliminating a large internal hard drive. Then there is the hardware DRM possibility that reduces the chance the cartridge can be pirated and increases sales.
 
pxc said:
This sounds like nothing other than a cash grab by Nintendo. Of course the cartridges will come with a huge licensing fee, so Nintendo will get a significant cut of any titles, whether they are actually sold to gamers or eventually end up in a landfill.

Nintendo doesn't seem to understand its string of mistakes that have caused its consoles to be outsold by rivals for generations. Nintendo is just sitting on the console and chanting "mine, mine, mine". So glwt.
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I may be mistaken, but I believe that Nintendo holds over 40% of the world's marketshare for consoles.
 
NExUS1g said:
I may be mistaken, but I believe that Nintendo holds over 40% of the world's marketshare for consoles.
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I think you mean gaming systems, which includes handhelds. I used consoles is in the usually understood sense, where Nintendo has lagged for ~15 years and multiple generations (besides a blip with the #1 "shoved in the closet console" Wii).
 
pxc said:
I think you mean gaming systems, which includes handhelds. I used consoles is in the usually understood sense, where Nintendo has lagged for ~15 years and multiple generations.
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Pretty sure only Wii-U can be considered a mistake, so that's just 1 generation? I mean Wii's a console that never had to lose money on each sale for as many years as Sony/Microsoft did to be profitable, doesn't sound like they're misunderstanding that much.
 
I've been wanting to see this for a long time. If true, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.
 
pxc said:
I think you mean gaming systems, which includes handhelds. I used consoles is in the usually understood sense, where Nintendo has lagged for ~15 years and multiple generations.
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I checked VGChartz to see what they had for the numbers. Nintendo's Wii and Wii U have 32.8% of the market share for consoles alone. Sony's Playstation 3 and 4 have 36.4% of the market share. MS's XBox 360 and XBox One have 30.6% of the market share. Prior to the XBox One and Playstation 4, Sony's Playstation 3 had 38.9% of the market share, XBox 360 had 38.5% of the market share and The Wii/Wii U had 51.5% of the market share. I expect that when Nintendo releases the NX as a response to this generation's consoles, the market share for Nintendo will climb again.
 
Nintendo has always been in the lead when you look at "gaming systems". tv connected consoles, not so much.
38.9+38.5+51.5=128.9% hows that work?
100-38.9-38.5=22.6%
 
SIgh...once again Nintendo seems to be making a major mistake. If they don't want to use optical discs, that's fine. Especially if the NX is basically a mobile console with a "dock" coming out for home use next year. However, why do they have to use proprietary cartridges instead of standardized flash drives, SD cards etc..? Hell, I was REALLY hoping that just maybe Nintendo started to 'get it" and that the NX would be a true blue Android phone/tablet with some Nintendo specific hardware and software added (ie a bluetooth gamepad that connects and fllips open to give the 3DS appearance etc, a Nintendo themed UI, etc..), with the home dock coming later. If they made it a high end phone or tablet, fully Android capable and open (meaning both Google Play as well as Nintendo E-Shop) , but with those Nintendo touches, I think many people would choose it as their main phone. Some for nostalgia, some for gaming, and many because it could be the most powerful and game ready phone that plugged into an entertainment center around. Hell, they could make multiple models if they wished (ie Wifi only, vs LTE, ) and a stripped down cheapy version for kids that Nintendo somehow continuesto fixate upon.

What I don't want to see is another proprietary console, especially a handheld one. A decade or two ago people weren't using around powerful, gaming capable handheld computers as part of their daily "wallet/keys/phone" carry. I have zero desire to have a separate, proprietary gaming handheld when I am spending a fair amount of money on the device I use for other things already. There are many, many Nintendo titles I'd love to play on my Android phone if they were available - when Square Enix started selling some of their classic titles on Android, I jumped at the chance (though I did find out some of them were crappy ports - they need to do better). There are many people playing games on their phone who would never buy a portable game console. Furthermore, there are lots of people who want to see mobile gaming without atrocious monetization. I'd rather pay $15-30 for a digitally provided complete, Smash Bros, Hyrule Warriors, Final Fantasy Tactics War of the Lions, Fire Emblem: If Special Edition, Final Fantasy Theatrerhythm: Curtain Call etc...game, as opposed to a "free to play" horror story of time gates, skinner box bullshit, premium currency, item malls etc. Sure, offer real DLC expansion style content, but that's it. Now, combine this with a USB 3.1 / Thunderbolt 3 style dock that allows user to play on their TVs, add more connectivity etc... and you have a fantastic NX Project.

Hell, I'd be just as satisfied if Nintendo gave up hardware all together and instead just started publishing software for PC / mobile, as well as crafting peripherals. Even without a Nintendo Phone, I think people would be more than happy to buy a bluetooth Nintendo made controllers, and they'd certainly buy Nintendo titles released on PC and mobile alike.

I worry however that Nintendo will cling to heavily to current ideas ,even if it hurts them. They just need the perception to look beyond and the wisdom to break old habits, allowing them to invigorate the market.
 
Xaeos said:
What I don't want to see is another proprietary console, especially a handheld one. A decade or two ago people weren't using around powerful, gaming capable handheld computers as part of their daily "wallet/keys/phone" carry. I have zero desire to have a separate, proprietary gaming handheld when I am spending a fair amount of money on the device I use for other things already. There are many, many Nintendo titles I'd love to play on my Android phone if they were available - when Square Enix started selling some of their classic titles on Android, I jumped at the chance (though I did find out some of them were crappy ports - they need to do better). There are many people playing games on their phone who would never buy a portable game console.
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Not everyone is in the same boat, though. I wouldn't be terribly interested in playing Nintendo games on iOS/Android. I like Nintendo games precisely because they're on a 3DS with buttons and stylus controls. If Nintendo starts putting their games on iOS or Android, that means it will be played with touchscreen controls and soft buttons like every other mobile game. I've honestly never liked any mobile phone games. Even the ones that are ports of games I like on other platforms tend to suck. Tried out several games on someone's iPhone once for a week, I couldn't get into it. Besides, I have a Windows Phone right now, and I know a lot of people that just buy feature phones because they don't care about apps. I'm not liking the idea of being forced to buy into one of the two major platforms in order to play my Nintendo games using a touchscreen interface I don't like in the first place. The problem with mobile games is that they're usually designed around the lowest common denominator and have to be designed to work with touchscreen-only devices. They may be "powerful computers" but they're so poorly designed/optimized for gaming that games have to be designed differently to work on them.

I mean, I guess it may happen eventually for the youngsters who like playing on a touchscreen, but I just don't like gaming on a phone. Definitely not enough to buy an $500 phone to play a game on an input device I don't care for. You can argue that people will buy attachments with hardware buttons... no one ever does, nothing that requires an attachment is ever successful. Not to mention, what specs should they target? 1GB? 2GB? 4GB? Quad-core?

It's worth remembering that there are also people like me playing games on a portable game console who won't play games on a mobile phone or invest significant money in one because it's just not good enough for a real gaming experience. If the market goes the other way, it's because there were too many people that like Angry Birds and Candy Crush with low expectations who are easily amused... and not enough people like me that want to play Ocarina of Time 3DS on the go.

That said, I would play Nintendo games on a PC or an Xbox One. Wouldn't buy a PS4, though.
 
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pendragon1 said:
nintenphone has been dreamt about before: If Nintendo Did Make A Smartphone, We'd Want It To Look Like This and Nintendo : Mario téléphonerait sûrement avec ce smartphone vintage | meltyStyle
Nintendo products NEED buttons. I would not be upset if either of those ever became real.
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I'd buy that, but I absolutely don't want Nintendo to relinquish control over their platform and just churn out generic mobile games for iOS and Android like Zygna or something.

Honestly, the 3DS already has a microphone, speakers, and Wi-Fi... if they added 3G and a sim card, it's almost a phone. I could live with a 3DS also trying to be a phone a lot easier than a phone trying to be a 3DS. I forget my phone and leave it at home more often than I forget my 3DS and leave it at home... not sure what that says about my priorities. LOL.

If only Nintendo had beaten Apple to the punch and the world's first smartphone had been the Nintendo DS... just one of many alternate universes I'd rather be living in. Apple's design sucks, but it's so widely emulated because they were so successful.
 
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pxc said:
This sounds like nothing other than a cash grab by Nintendo. Of course the cartridges will come with a huge licensing fee, so Nintendo will get a significant cut of any titles, whether they are actually sold to gamers or eventually end up in a landfill.
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Newsflash. All consoles make their main money on licensing fees for all games, regardless of media format. That won't change.

This will just increase the price of games to account for the increased cost of cartridges over optical disks.
 
I have no objections to this honestly and it makes sense when you think about it. Back when CD's got popular, memory chips were expensive and limited. However today that just isn't the case. Not to mention all the moving parts in a optical drive and the lack of in a "memory card reader" and you could make an argument that carts today could easily be superior to an optical disc.
 
pendragon1 said:
and the cost of the Blu-ray drive!
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Not only that, but they would be avoiding having to pay their rival licensing fees to even use the Blu-ray tech. Even if they did go with a Blu-ray partner like LG or Pioneer to provide the drive, they are still indirectly helping Sony.
 
It'd be cool if they offered pre-loaded SDcard games, or the option to download and install the game on your own card

no new cart format needed, and they already have the experience with this on both Wii and DS systems (both accepting SD cards for various games/apps)

seems like a no-brainer... any huge downsides to this, besides whatever piracy thing (which IMO will be an issue no matter what, just a little slower to crack with some proprietary format)?
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
Not only that, but they would be avoiding having to pay their rival licensing fees to even use the Blu-ray tech. Even if they did go with a Blu-ray partner like LG or Pioneer to provide the drive, they are still indirectly helping Sony.
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Nintendo would never use Blu-Ray anyway... they'd probably use a proprietary format like they always do. They always do that to avoid paying license fees, and that's why you can't watch DVDs on the Wii or Wii U. Incidentally, that's also why it's nearly impossible to rip a Wii disc using a computer's disc drive, and it has to be done on the system itself. Even if optical media is used, you probably won't be watching Blu-Ray discs on your NX.

I personally think playing back movies on a home console is overrated... the standalone players aren't that expensive, and most people stream now anyway. I'd prefer having the savings on license fees passed on to me.

Youn said:
It'd be cool if they offered pre-loaded SDcard games, or the option to download and install the game on your own card

no new cart format needed, and they already have the experience with this on both Wii and DS systems (both accepting SD cards for various games/apps)
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This wouldn't be a new idea for Nintendo at all. You pretty much download and install games on an SD card with the 3DS anyway. In fact, they had a similar idea way back in the NES era...

Family Computer Disk System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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pendragon1 said:
Nintendo has always been in the lead when you look at "gaming systems". tv connected consoles, not so much.
38.9+38.5+51.5=128.9% hows that work?
100-38.9-38.5=22.6%
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Thanks for the correction. Not sure what I did wrong.
PS3 30.2% (86.44 million units)
360 29.9% (85.48 million)
WII/U 39.9% (114.29 million)

Even not including Wii U (a little over 13 million units) the Wii alone had the larger market share.
 
only if they look like HU Cards from the TB16. they could totally do that with memory both for the game and internal to save stuff.
 
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