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Next-Generation GPUs, Coupon Wars

S

saltycrackers

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
102
The Inquirer recently reported that it is very likely that enthusiasts purchasing the nv40 will get a coupon for a free DOOM 3 once its released. If this happens, it seems probable that ATi will once again include HL2 coupons with their r420, right?

Also, lets say both the nv40 and the r420 run HL2 and D3 well-- just Radeons run HL2 a little better and Geforces run DOOM 3 a little better. But wait! Doom is capped at 60fps. So it wouldn't matter if Nvidia would score 85fps while Ati would score 65fps...they're both going to run at 60fps. This seems to be an advantage for ATi, since r420 owners will probably experience doom 3 at the same fps nv40 users will, but the r420 users will get a bit better HL2 performance. This is, of course, assuming that HL2 runs better on ATi and D3 runs better on nvidia...but no benchmarks are out so we can only speculate...

Assuming that image quality stays identical, I'd probably go with the Radeon, since HL2 and D3 are 2004's biggest games. Hopefully STALKER will run very well on ATi as well, even though its part of the TWIMTBP program. That game looks just as cool as HL2 and D3.
 
well, if doom 3 is capped at 60, wouldnt you still want as many fps as possible so you can up the aa/af and still remain at the 60 mark?
 
I don't care how well Doom 3 will run on an nvidia card, nvidia cards are still ass in high res and aa and af. Thus, ATI doesn't need an advantage, when you are selling 300 dollar bottles of wine that are top of the vineyard scale verses cheap wine at close to the same price but in a pretty package... people will figure it out some time. NVIDIA needs new engineers or something cause they r teh suck right now.

~Adam
 
Doom 3 will be exactly as Halo, you turn on AA you will not see better IQ just a huge drop in performance.
 
Originally posted by Trekster
you need more than 60fps why?
Click to expand...

I don't. It's simply idiotic to cap it at 60fps though, seriously whats the point? What about people who wanna vsync at 100hz? Why WOULDN'T I need more than 60fps? It looks better. Don't give me that human eye crap, it's bullshit, and nobody wants to prove it again.
 
no, aa will be used in d3, the problem with halo is that the backbuffer is used for pixel shader effects. doom3 uses minimal pixel shaders or none at all depending on settings, so aa will work fully. The doom3 cap will not be a problem, if you hit the cap, then crank up the lod, that will lower your fps.
edit- oh yeah, carmack said it would be capped in an interview. it is because all the animations work at 60 fps, so any faster would be redundant frames, with absolutely no benefit, capped or not. furthermore, by capping it they can sync the physics better. for example in quake 3 your fps governed some of the jumps, no longer in doom3.
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
no, aa will be used in d3, the problem with halo is that the backbuffer is used for pixel shader effects. doom3 uses minimal pixel shaders or none at all depending on settings, so aa will work fully. The doom3 cap will not be a problem, if you hit the cap, then crank up the lod, that will lower your fps.
edit- oh yeah, carmack said it would be capped in an interview. it is because all the animations work at 60 fps, so any faster would be redundant frames, with absolutely no benefit, capped or not. furthermore, by capping it they can sync the physics better. for example in quake 3 your fps governed some of the jumps, no longer in doom3.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Originally posted by archevilangel
well, if doom 3 is capped at 60, wouldnt you still want as many fps as possible so you can up the aa/af and still remain at the 60 mark?
Click to expand...
Well If nVidia still has some of there AA/AF problems, it will be less demanding on an ATI card to get to 8x since it's 4x will perform about on par with nVidias 8x.
 
When the game comes out, I'll write an INI file to max out the frame rates at the desire of the user.

I've done this with all the games I have.

Command and Conquer Generals was capped at 35FPS. I wrote an ini file and now its unlimited. Which means that the game kicks my ass a little faster but its visual beauty.
 
how can you change a hard coded cap with an ini file? the cap is not cvar controled, the only way to remove it would be license the engine code from id, and release a new set of engine files with it coded out.
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
how can you change a hard coded cap with an ini file? the cap is not cvar controled, the only way to remove it would be license the engine code from id, and release a new set of engine files with it coded out.
Click to expand...
how do people write hacks? you can change lots of things about a game... i dont see how removing a cap would be any harder than writing a hack, although i could never do either
 
because hacks generally exploit outside links (interface between engine and api, api and driver, the game and the web, things like that). This would require searching for one line of compiled code, and deleting it. plus removing the cap would fubar the rest of the game as the 60fps limit is intergral to other functions such as the physics engine.
 
Originally posted by CleanSlate
I don't care how well Doom 3 will run on an nvidia card, nvidia cards are still ass in high res and aa and af. Thus, ATI doesn't need an advantage, when you are selling 300 dollar bottles of wine that are top of the vineyard scale verses cheap wine at close to the same price but in a pretty package... people will figure it out some time. NVIDIA needs new engineers or something cause they r teh suck right now.

~Adam
Click to expand...

Except we have no idea how the NV40 runs. I wouldn't discount nVidia just yet.
 
Nvidia ussually fixes their problems within the first releae of their products, the FX was their first release... I believe nvidia is going to go under, 3dfx style.

~Adam
 
Originally posted by CleanSlate
Nvidia ussually fixes their problems within the first releae of their products, the FX was their first release... I believe nvidia is going to go under, 3dfx style.

~Adam
Click to expand...


That's what I said with 3dfx back when Nvidia first appeared. And it happened. But I definately don't see Nvidia going under. I'd expect a good showcase from them in 2004 .. far from bankrupt.

You gotta remember, 3dfx lived in a world when multiplayer games weren't the most popular thing since string-cheese. They didn't have the ability to compete with newer technology, such as the GPU's introduced by Nvidia. So they had to fold, they were so far behind (limited competition before Nvidia) in R&D when Nvidia unveiled the GPU that there was no way in hell they were going to catch up. So unless ATI pulls out some seriously new technology that is breathtaking and unbelievable. Nvidia is here to stay :)

Not to mention there stocks are pricey, still.

ATI won 2003. I'd expect that it was a wakeup call and Nvidia will come back as strong as ever. Because, before ATI came along with the nicer Radeon cards. They were barely competition for Nvidia, so Nvidia could sit back on their heels, cut R&D costs, and roll in the cash. Then *THWACK* ATI wakes them up.
 
Originally posted by Spidey329
That's what I said with 3dfx back when Nvidia first appeared. And it happened. But I definately don't see Nvidia going under. I'd expect a good showcase from them in 2004 .. far from bankrupt.

You gotta remember, 3dfx lived in a world when multiplayer games weren't the most popular thing since string-cheese. They didn't have the ability to compete with newer technology, such as the GPU's introduced by Nvidia. So they had to fold, they were so far behind (limited competition before Nvidia) in R&D when Nvidia unveiled the GPU that there was no way in hell they were going to catch up. So unless ATI pulls out some seriously new technology that is breathtaking and unbelievable. Nvidia is here to stay :)

Not to mention there stocks are pricey, still.

ATI won 2003. I'd expect that it was a wakeup call and Nvidia will come back as strong as ever. Because, before ATI came along with the nicer Radeon cards. They were barely competition for Nvidia, so Nvidia could sit back on their heels, cut R&D costs, and roll in the cash. Then *THWACK* ATI wakes them up.
Click to expand...

Rofl, yes well I can dream that NVIDIA wakes up and starts developing Glide once more... mmm glide.. I don't wish a bankruptcy on anyone (M$ excluded) but they need to get their shit together.

~Adam
 
don't forget, all 3dfx had going for it was graphics cards. nvidia is far more diverse, plus even if they loose half of their market share, they still would be pulling in more money than 3dfx ever did.
 
don't. It's simply idiotic to cap it at 60fps though, seriously whats the point? What about people who wanna vsync at 100hz? Why WOULDN'T I need more than 60fps? It looks better. Don't give me that human eye crap, it's bullshit, and nobody wants to prove it again.
Click to expand...

There really is no differnce i had my FPS at 100 and when we lanned at my house a friend turned it to 60 in the properties and i didnt know it until mourning and its been proven.
 
Originally posted by zoltan
There really is no differnce i had my FPS at 100 and when we lanned at my house a friend turned it to 60 in the properties and i didnt know it until mourning and its been proven.
Click to expand...

Then that's just you. Or your monitor was running @ 60hz and you did not realize it.
 
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