Next Gen 60fps standard

R

rm19

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
141
Bill Gates has specified a minimum resolution of 720p for Xbox 360 but should he have forced a mininum frame rate requirement of 60 frames per second for every game?

30 frames per second in gaming just looks so dull to me now and with all the power the new consoles are supposedly sporting, I see no reason why any game should still be running at 30fps. Forza and Halo running at 60fps would look impressive as hell, not to mention the benefits in gameplay such smoothness would provide.
 
The hardware required to run any/all state of the art games using current technology at 60fps simply isnt feasible for a $3-500 console.

Even if it were possible today, there's no way to predict how games in the future will attempt to sqeeze every last bit of performance from these next gen consoles.
 
CreamySoupUSA said:
A link to where he got his information...
Click to expand...

He wasn't giving any information. He was asking a question

should he have forced a mininum frame rate requirement of 60 frames per second for every game?
Click to expand...
 
Your eyes can't notice anything above 30fps anyway. We shoot for more fps so when the action heats up, the framerate doesn't drop below 30fps.
 
OK correct me if I am wrong but the two HDTV standards 720p and 720i run at 60fps. At 720p the entire screen is refreshed at 1/60second. And 720i half the screen is refreshed 1/30second. So if you cound the frames up .... are HDTV signals not 60 fps ?
 
bonkrowave said:
OK correct me if I am wrong but the two HDTV standards 720p and 720i run at 60fps. At 720p the entire screen is refreshed at 1/60second. And 720i half the screen is refreshed 1/30second. So if you cound the frames up .... are HDTV signals not 60 fps ?
Click to expand...

Refresh rate and fps aren't the same thing. Refreshing with the same frame 60 times in one second isn't the same as displaying 60 different frames in one second. The refresh rate is the upper bound on the visible fps, though actual fps can be higher. Refresh rate ties in more to eye strain, and fps is more a matter of perceived smoothness of action.
 
Cardboard Hammer said:
Refresh rate and fps aren't the same thing. Refreshing with the same frame 60 times in one second isn't the same as displaying 60 different frames in one second. The refresh rate is the upper bound on the visible fps, though actual fps can be higher. Refresh rate ties in more to eye strain, and fps is more a matter of perceived smoothness of action.
Click to expand...

Games will never be able to draw more fps then the screen can refresh tho, correct ?
Well I guess they can, they just wont be displayed.
 
If the games refresh rate is far off from the monitors refresh rate in EITHER direction the game will appear choppy. MOST commercial game developers limit the in game framerate to 60fps anyway, which is why I laugh at people who claim to be able to play high end games at 100fps+ bragging about the power of their system. Maybe in benchmarks you'll get that but unless you have disabled vsync you won't go above your monitors refresh rate in-game. And if you do disable vsync then your monitors refresh rate better be set as close as possible to your average in-game framerate or it will look shitty.
 
CHollman82 said:
If the games refresh rate is far off from the monitors refresh rate in EITHER direction the game will appear choppy. MOST commercial game developers limit the in game framerate to 60fps anyway, which is why I laugh at people who claim to be able to play high end games at 100fps+ bragging about the power of their system. Maybe in benchmarks you'll get that but unless you have disabled vsync you won't go above your monitors refresh rate in-game. And if you do disable vsync then your monitors refresh rate better be set as close as possible to your average in-game framerate or it will look shitty.
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This was the point I was getting at .... if the refresh rate is 60hz or 60fps ... dont the consoles have vsync, which would mean 60fps ?
 
spine said:
dito

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

But you don't need to do any research to know people can see WAY over 30fps when playing games. If you can't just see that for yourself, then you are literally retarded (in the real meaning of the word).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I know I can definitely see the difference between 30 and 60 fps. 60 fps is so fluid and smooth that you just know it when you see it. I know some people with killer PCs who brag that 30 fps is barely even playable to them.

As far as 720i, there is no such HD standard (at least in the US). 720p shows from Fox and ABC on my ATI HDTV Wonder are all broadcast at 60 fps so this would be nothing new.

atsc3.gif

atsc2.gif
 
Brace yourself.

PD0 will be 30FPS.

Rare said that was their goal.
 
I played Need for speed on the 360 dev kits at E3 and it was pretty horrible in the frame rate dept. My educated eyes told me about 30-45FPS, varying on the scene. Which for me just won't cut it in a racing game. It was running at 1080i (and QUITE obvious no AA) and I asked if I would be an option to display it in 720p so that it might be closer to 60FPS, but they didnt know. I'm sure this is possible though, much like how you can force the current Xbox to display only up to 720p.
 
Catboxer said:
I played Need for speed on the 360 dev kits at E3 and it was pretty horrible in the frame rate dept. My educated eyes told me about 30-45FPS, varying on the scene. Which for me just won't cut it in a racing game. It was running at 1080i (and QUITE obvious no AA) and I asked if I would be an option to display it in 720p so that it might be closer to 60FPS, but they didnt know. I'm sure this is possible though, much like how you can force the current Xbox to display only up to 720p.
Click to expand...

I think the key words are ..... Alpha Dev Kits.
 
Right, I was relieved to hear it as I was really looking forward to the 360. But playing it still left a bad taste in my mouth. They were saying the kits were anywhere between 25 and 50% as powerful as the final build. I'd wager they are being a bit generous with their percentages.
 
bonkrowave said:
This was the point I was getting at .... if the refresh rate is 60hz or 60fps ... dont the consoles have vsync, which would mean 60fps ?
Click to expand...

Actually, not necessarily. Vsync means that the game will wait until the vertical sync period on the display before flipping the backbuffer to the primary surface. The vertical sync period occurs when the electron gun (or other things for other types of displays) gets to the bottom-right most pixel and has to scan back up to the top-left most pixel, which takes time, enough time for the game to change the scene being displayed . This means that with vsync on the frame rate of the game is locked to the refresh rate of the display, whether that be 30,60,or 100hz (or anything else, my monitor will do 200+). On HDTV's I believe the refresh rate is 60hz, so if a game on the newer consoles uses vsync and its being played on an HDTV, then yes, the game will run at 60fps... maximum, not guaranteed.

I don't know enough about game consoles to say whether or not vsync is something that is hard coded into the system or if it is application dependant (each game developer must implement it themselves), it could be either way. With computer games vsync must be implemented in software by the game developer (by simply adding DDFLIP_WAIT to the bltfast call in directx, so its inexcusable to not do it, lol)
 
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