Newegg has X1800's!

[Mabrito]

GTX is longer

You sure, this looks longer than the GTX. Im not doubting you in any way, it just looks longer in my eyes.

 

[OldBoy]

How am I generalizing?? Are you flat out stating that the performance is better on the XL than the GTX? What feature(s) does the XL have that the GTX or GT does not, that make it worth that much more money? Your "trump" cards are two game DEMOS that may or may not represent the final product.

The only reason I see for buying this card at it's current price and warranty is to be able to say that "I got one of the first ones available!"

Hands up! Who here look for the best price/performance ratio when buying?? Is a long or lifetime warranty a factor? (makes you feel that the manufacturer is willing to actually stand behind their product)

YOU need to quit generalizing and be specific about what matters most to you when purchasing. Then we can actually see how many people agree with you.

Wow, thanks for the rant. That really proved your point. As I have been saying and you obviously aren't reading, everyone makes there own choice. You don't make a choice for anyone but yourself. So you talking about what you think is great, except it just doesn't matter for anyone but yourself. If all you want to look at is price performance, then why would anyone buy a GT/X or X1800 card. The price/performance leader is the X800 GTO2 modded to a X850 XT. Like I said before, stop acting like you speak for anyone but yourself. We all have the information in front of us. We can ask questions and get clarifications but at crunch time everyone looks at price, performance, features, IQ, etc assigns their personal values to each factor and makes a call. Again, you don't. So enjoy the card you have and let everyone else enjoy theirs.

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

How am I generalizing?? Are you flat out stating that the performance is better on the XL than the GTX? What feature(s) does the XL have that the GTX or GT does not, that make it worth that much more money? Your "trump" cards are two game DEMOS that may or may not represent the final product.

The only reason I see for buying this card at it's current price and warranty is to be able to say that "I got one of the first ones available!"

Hands up! Who here look for the best price/performance ratio when buying?? Is a long or lifetime warranty a factor? (makes you feel that the manufacturer is willing to actually stand behind their product)

YOU need to quit generalizing and be specific about what matters most to you when purchasing. Then we can actually see how many people agree with you. As it is now, I can't figure out what the hell you think is important when purchasing a new piece of hardware.

exactly... this is america, price and performance value is the first thing ppl look at

 

[poppachocks]

Wow, thanks for the rant. That really proved your point. As I have been saying and you obviously aren't reading, everyone makes there own choice. You don't make a choice for anyone but yourself. So you talking about what you think is great, except it just doesn't matter for anyone but yourself. If all you want to look at is price performance, then why would anyone buy a GT/X or X1800 card. The price/performance leader is the X800 GTO2 modded to a X850 XT. Like I said before, stop acting like you speak for anyone but yourself. We all have the information in front of us. We can ask questions and get clarifications but at crunch time everyone looks at price, performance, features, IQ, etc assigns their personal values to each factor and makes a call. Again, you don't. So enjoy the card you have and let everyone else enjoy theirs.

This is pointless to continue this. I asked you a question, and I get a runaround. I told you what matters most to me, and asked you SPECIFICALLY what matters most to you.
My guess is that you simply don't know how to respond without backing down from your original argument.(as confusing as it is...)

I was not trying to speak for anyone else here. Don't get so defensive.

 

[1c3d0g]

Wow, thanks for the rant. That really proved your point. As I have been saying and you obviously aren't reading, everyone makes there own choice. You don't make a choice for anyone but yourself. So you talking about what you think is great, except it just doesn't matter for anyone but yourself. If all you want to look at is price performance, then why would anyone buy a GT/X or X1800 card. The price/performance leader is the X800 GTO2 modded to a X850 XT. Like I said before, stop acting like you speak for anyone but yourself. We all have the information in front of us. We can ask questions and get clarifications but at crunch time everyone looks at price, performance, features, IQ, etc assigns their personal values to each factor and makes a call. Again, you don't. So enjoy the card you have and let everyone else enjoy theirs.

ROFL!!! Sure...O.K.

 

[OldBoy]

This is pointless to continue this. I asked you a question, and I get a runaround. I told you what matters most to me, and asked you SPECIFICALLY what matters most to you.
My guess is that you simply don't know how to respond without backing down from your original argument.(as confusing as it is...)

I was not trying to speak for anyone else here. Don't get so defensive.

Yeah, you got me, I was the one being defensive and ranting. Guess you win big guy

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

If all you want to look at is price performance, then why would anyone buy a GT/X or X1800 card. The price/performance leader is the X800 GTO2 modded to a X850 XT.

there are segments buddy... high performance, mid range, low range, etc. X800GTO2 is marketed to a difference audience than the GTX and the X1800. comparing the two is apples and oranges

 

[OldBoy]

there are segments buddy... high performance, mid range, low range, etc. X800GTO2 is marketed to a difference audience than the GTX and the X1800. comparing the two is apples and oranges

But that's not what he said "buddy" He said he was looking at price performance. I was simply showing him that he is applying his own criteria to price performance (i.e. like you said the ultra high end) Which goes back nicely to exactly what I've been saying

 

[poppachocks]

exactly... this is america, price and performance value is the first thing ppl look at

Thank you. I believe this is what the MAJORITY of people consider when purchasing (along with features of course) . I don't see that the XL has anything going for it at the present time with its current price and 1 yr warranty.

 

[OldBoy]

Thank you. I believe this is what the MAJORITY of people consider when purchasing (along with features of course) . I don't see that the XL has anything going for it at the present time with its current price and 1 yr warranty.

Wow, so you know what the majority of people buying video cards are considering. I'm simply amazed at your clairvoyance

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

But that's not what he said "buddy" He said he was looking at price performance. I was simply showing him that he is applying his own criteria to price performance (i.e. like you said the ultra high end) Which goes back nicely to exactly what I've been saying

but he was refering to the GT vs the XL... actually thats all we've been arguing about. GT cost less than the XL, and the XL has no OVERWHELMING better feature than the GT, thus ppl will buy the GT more so than the XL

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

Wow, so you know what the majority of people buying video cards are considering. I'm simply amazed at your clairvoyance

like i said this is AMERICA. we people are price concious buyers. just look at GAS, with the soaring prices ppl are trying to find the cheapest place, and unless the car REQUIRES it, i buy regular unleaded. SURE i can buy premium for a slight better performance, but i choose not to, cuz there is not GLARING advantage to buy premium

 

[poppachocks]

Wow, so you know what the majority of people buying video cards are considering. I'm simply amazed at your clairvoyance

I stated my OPINION clearly. Which is much more than I can say about you, since you haven't stated what you think most people look at first.

All I've heard from you is "mumble mumble...various factors...mumble mumble...everybody has different criteria...mumble mumble"

 

[OldBoy]

but he was refering to the GT vs the XL... actually thats all we've been arguing about. GT cost less than the XL, and the XL has no OVERWHELMING better feature than the GT, thus ppl will buy the GT more so than the XL

May be true, but everyone decides what is an overwhelming feature for them. For example. for some people it might be HDMI support over DVI, for others it might be HDR plus AA, for others it might be hardware accelerated DVD playback without paying for additional Purevideo software, for others it might be that they want the best image quality available, for others it might be something else. That's my point, features, value, etc are all relative. Everyone has a different point of view. I'm simply saying that it's completely unnecessary for someone to tell everyone what the "correct" viewpoint is.

 

[OldBoy]

I stated my OPINION clearly. Which is much more than I can say about you, since you haven't stated what you think most people look at first.

All I've heard from you is "mumble mumble...various factors...mumble mumble...everybody has different criteria...mumble mumble"

Yeah, hate to say I have been mumbling on about each person making their own choice based on what they consider important. I must be losing it

 

[poppachocks]

but he was refering to the GT vs the XL... actually thats all we've been arguing about. GT cost less than the XL, and the XL has no OVERWHELMING better feature than the GT, thus ppl will buy the GT more so than the XL

The GT can currently be purchased for 340.00 (after mail-in rebate at zipzoomfly...both the EVGA and the BFG). Zip also has the GTX for 459.00.

I looked at the reviews here, at Firingsquad, and at Anandtech (sites that I trust for an unbiased view). From what I saw the GT came out on top in the majority of the benchmarks.

What do ya think, Dub? Did I miss sometime amazing about the XL??

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I don't see why I have to "enlighten" anyone. Read the reviews and make up your own mind as everyone should. Features, price, performance and how you value them determine what card you will buy.

As for this non-issue with the hardware prefetch I would suggest you go over to the beyond3d.com forums for an intelligent and informed discussion of the topic.

Whether ATI has better image quality to YOU is something that each person must answer for themselves.

The reason I say to enlighten us is because you choise words to me were heavy handed. "ignorant" that is a loaded word. I am super informed about both products and know you can't plead a rational case as to why one would buy the X1800XL over the 7800GTX which is out of it's league.

Now back to the word ignorant
What if I said your mother was ignorant. (I'm not saying that) Or if someone said my mother was ignorant. (not saying that either) That word is offenseful to anyone under any circumstance.

I've been through this many times before. Joined new forums and members such as yourself see the noob next to my name and think, he has no street cred like I got let me take a shot at him/her. Dont let the noob fool you. I have read all the articles already, I know what I'm talking about. I work in this industry, this is what I do for a living. I'm more involved in this industry than I believe you are.

I simply feel that there is NO argument in your case. The 7800GTX is a much better card hands down. I can't see anyone buy the X1800XL over the GTX when they cost the same. I mean cmon they cost the same!!! The GTX is clearly faster in every single thing imaginable. I'll put it to you like this, tell me anyone who will buy the radeon X1800XL for the price of a GTX that isn't one sided and i'll show you a noob.

 

[slyven]

Why are people like the IQ difference between the next generation cards is like that between DX8.1 and DX9? I don't get it. True, ATI has done some AF better, that allows walls in the distance to look less fuzzier. And ATI has also been able to pull off AA in HDR (nice one.) Along with soem other nice stuff. But the average consumer is not going to be able to tell the difference. Well, except with HDR and AA. But I GENERALLY, can't see the difference between 2xAF and 16xAF till i REALLY concentrate. I admit, I am a bit of an oddity, but its true. And I never turn AA over 4x, if I even take it that high. I just set my IQ setting to High Quality and live with it. Fuzzy long distance walls and all.

Sigh. Argue all you want, bottom line is that at THIS price, the XL fails. Its is MUCH more expensive that its competitor, and it has been bumped in to a brakect which it loses all the time. If you are willing to spend money like that on a card, the GTX is a better by. IQ difference or no. But you should just save the 100 and get a GT.

But when the price drops, then we will have some real fights. Also, those using F.E.A.R. and COD2 benchs. Well, I don't know. When the retail games are released then I will make my mind up about those. I still expect COD2 to perform better on the XT, cause it seesm to be able use 512m. But F.E.A.R.? Let them optimise it a bit. Then we can talk.

You ask me the ONLY card worth buy in the x1000 line up is the x1800XT. I say this cause I am a high end gamer and don't even consider mainstream and below cards. I couldn't stomach it.

 

[poppachocks]

The reason I say to enlighten us is because you choise words to me were heavy handed. "ignorant" that is a loaded word. I am super informed about both products and know you can't plead a rational case as to why one would buy the X1800XL over the 7800GTX which is out of it's league.

Now back to the word ignorant
What if I said your mother was ignorant. (I'm not saying that) Or if someone said my mother was ignorant. (not saying that either) That word is offenseful to anyone under any circumstance.

I've been through this many times before. Joined new forums and members such as yourself see the noob next to my name and think, he has no street cred like I got let me take a shot at him/her. Dont let the noob fool you. I have read all the articles already, I know what I'm talking about. I work in this industry, this is what I do for a living. I'm more involved in this industry than I believe you are.




I simply feel that there is NO argument in your case. The 7800GTX is a much better card hands down. I can't see anyone buy the X1800XL over the GTX when they cost the same. I mean cmon they cost the same!!! The GTX is clearly faster in every single thing imaginable. I'll put it to you like this, tell me anyone who will buy the radeon X1800XL for the price of a GTX that isn't one sided and i'll show you a noob.

Don't worry about all people not taking you serious. just because of your "noob" status. I've been here almost three years, but rarely post. Most of the time I just enjoy watching the arguments/discussions. Something about this thread just got me interested.

BTW: Welcome to the forum!

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

The GT can currently be purchased for 340.00 (after mail-in rebate at zipzoomfly...both the EVGA and the BFG). Zip also has the GTX for 459.00.

I looked at the reviews here, at Firingsquad, and at Anandtech (sites that I trust for an unbiased view). From what I saw the GT came out on top in the majority of the benchmarks.

What do ya think, Dub? Did I miss sometime amazing about the XL??

lol like i said, XL has nothing huge on the GT but some minor image enhancements and what not.

i mean, b4 the X1800s, nvidia has all the SM3, HDR stuff, does that mean ppl didn't buy ATI? the answer is no.

so jus cuz XL has all the new features so to speak, dosent mean its justified for the higher price. the average user would rather spent less for around the same performance, and would care less for the "extremely slight" better image performance.

 

[OldBoy]

The reason I say to enlighten us is because you choise words to me were heavy handed. "ignorant" that is a loaded word. I am super informed about both products and know you can't plead a rational case as to why one would buy the X1800XL over the 7800GTX which is out of it's league.

Now back to the word ignorant
What if I said your mother was ignorant. (I'm not saying that) Or if someone said my mother was ignorant. (not saying that either) That word is offenseful to anyone under any circumstance.

I've been through this many times before. Joined new forums and members such as yourself see the noob next to my name and think, he has no street cred like I got let me take a shot at him/her. Dont let the noob fool you. I have read all the articles already, I know what I'm talking about. I work in this industry, this is what I do for a living. I'm more involved in this industry than I believe you are.

I simply feel that there is NO argument in your case. The 7800GTX is a much better card hands down. I can't see anyone buy the X1800XL over the GTX when they cost the same. I mean cmon they cost the same!!! The GTX is clearly faster in every single thing imaginable. I'll put it to you like this, tell me anyone who will buy the radeon X1800XL for the price of a GTX that isn't one sided and i'll show you a noob.

ignorant is not a loaded term. It only becomes one when someone is ignorant of the meaning of the word (nice, eh)

For the ignorant, ignorant simply means the following:

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

There's simply nothing condescending about the term.

I didn't even notice your noob status. In any case I was a noob until midday today so I definitely can't look down on you (as if I would anyway) for being a noob.

Notice how you say in your view you don't see how anyone could pick. That's exactly my point; it's from your viewpoint. From other people's viewpoints the final analysis may be different. If everything else were equal (features, IQ, etc) then we could all do a simple analysis of performance and price. But it isn't so we can't. Each person makes their own call based on what they consider important. For example, one person my only care about performance at a price point. Another might really need the best IQ available and think that it's worth an extra $100 or maybe it's HDMI over DVI. I just don't know. Either way it's not nearly as black and white as we'd like it to be. Just because in your view there is no way but to go with one option doesn't mean that is the correct option for everyone.

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

ignorant is not a loaded term. It only becomes one when someone is ignorant of the meaning of the word (nice, eh)

For the ignorant, ignorant simply means the following:

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

.

words are words.. some ppl are sensitive, and there is nothing wrong with that. jus cuz u think its not a loaded work dosent mean its not offensive.

 

[OldBoy]

words are words.. some ppl are sensitive, and there is nothing wrong with that. jus cuz u think its not a loaded work dosent mean its not offensive.

It's not offensive. If a person takes it in a negative connotation does not make a word offensive. Stop trying to make it sound like the word ignorant is akin to the n word or something that is truly offensive.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

ignorant is not a loaded term. It only becomes one when someone is ignorant of the meaning of the word (nice, eh)

Notice how you say in your view you don't see how anyone could pick. That's exactly my point; it's from your viewpoint. From other people's viewpoints the final analysis may be different. If everything else were equal (features, IQ, etc) then we could all do a simple analysis of performance and price. But it isn't so we can't. Each person makes their own call based on what they consider important. For example, one person my only care about performance at a price point. Another might really need the best IQ available and think that it's worth an extra $100 or maybe it's HDMI over DVI. I just don't know. Either way it's not nearly as black and white as we'd like it to be. Just because in your view there is no way but to go with one option doesn't mean that is the correct option for everyone.

I can respect what your saying, but the reason 4 people are chasing you now is because you are trying to stand the middle ground and unfortunately it's not working. It's so obvious your ati biased. It seems I'm not the only one that sees this. Many Reviews have shown purevideo is better than avivo quality (image quality) is that important to your buying decision I believe I can quote you on that. I guess your main point is my view is mine yours is yours but dont force your view on me. Again I can respect that but stop trying to stand the middle ground. It's not working for you. When someone calls you on BS defend your ground, that's what forums are for.

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

Stop trying to make it sound like the word ignorant is akin to the n word or something that is truly offensive.

don't putting words in my mouth. not ONCE in my post did i even MENTION the word ignorant.




like i said, u might not think its offensive, and thats ur opinion, but u can't fault others for taking it that way, or u'll come off as a jerk

 

[OldBoy]

I can respect what your saying, but the reason 4 people are chasing you now is because you are trying to stand the middle ground and unfortunately it's not working. It's so obvious your ati biased. It seems I'm not the only one that sees this. Many Reviews have shown purevideo is better than avivo quality (image quality) is that important to your buying decision I believe I can quote you on that. I guess your main point is my view is mine yours is yours but dont force your view on me. Again I can respect that but stop trying to stand the middle ground. It's not working for you. When someone calls you on BS defend your ground, that's what forums are for.

I must be biased. You got me. I told people to make up their own minds so I must work for ATI Stop with the personal cheapshots, they're completely unnecessary.

 

[OldBoy]

don't putting words in my mouth. not ONCE in my post did i even MENTION the word ignorant.




like i said, u might not think its offensive, and thats ur opinion, but u can't fault others for taking it that way.

People can take anything the way they want to. I could call someone smart and they could get offended. Doesn't make the word offensive.

 

[Nidhogg]

if i wanted to know what ignorant ment i would have gone to www.m-w.com not www.hardforums.com

this thread is in the videocard category, not the omfg i pwnd u at english category

post about videocards

 

[OldBoy]

if i wanted to know what ignorant ment i would have gone to www.m-w.com not www.hardforums.com

this thread is in the videocard category, not the omfg i pwnd u at english category

post about videocards

And if I wanted to see pointless posts in threads I would have gone to anandtech

 

[Asian Dub Foundation]

People can take anything the way they want to. I could call someone smart and they could get offended. Doesn't make the word offensive.

then i assume u don't have concern for ppl's feelings..

 

[OldBoy]

then i assume u have concern for ppl's feelings..

When they are relevant to me of course. I care what my friends, family, coworkers, boss and people I interact with on a daily basis in my life think. What people on this board think, not so much, particularly because it wasn't offensive IF I had used a patently offensive word then of course I would care that I offended someone and caused them harm for no reason, whether on a BBS or in real life.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

I must be biased. You got me. I told people to make up their own minds so I must work for ATI Stop with the personal cheapshots, they're completely unnecessary.

ROFL You told people to make up their old minds then went into rant about image quality hdmi over dvi, free hardware accelerated hd playback. I mean cmon. If that doesn't come off biased to everyone in the forum then I retract my statements and if they do, then my statements stand. Again it's not working.

 

[Zinn]

to summarize this thread:

1) first few posts: newegg has X1800XLs, ATI have partially redeemed themselves from the "paper launch" everyone was moaning about. Good for ATI!

2) last fifty posts: whining, bitching, arguing and immaturity galore.

hoorah!!

 

[OldBoy]

ROFL You told people to make up their old minds then went into rant about image quality hdmi over dvi, free hardware accelerated hd playback. I mean cmon. If that doesn't come off biased to everyone in the forum then I retract my statements and if they do, then my statements stand. Again it's not working.

You consider pointing out different viewpoints as a rant. Okay. With that kind of interpretation of everything I say, there's nothing more to say. You've made up your mind about me whether it's accurate or not. I would hope that you wouldn't be so judgmental with others in the future.

 

[Lord_Exodia]

You consider pointing out different viewpoints as a rant. Okay. With that kind of interpretation of everything I say, there's nothing more to say. You've made up your mind about me whether it's accurate or not. I would hope that you wouldn't be so judgmental with others in the future.

I haven't placed judgement on you yet. In fact words can be deceiving. Despite this intilectual debate I actually think your cool. I respect your point of view and enjoy the debate. What I meant to say it's like saying green and red are both good colors and to each his own then go and point out what you feel is 5 bonus things about red. Yet failed to mention any good points about green.

Now above change the word green for nvidia and red for ati.

Seriously, you are intelligent, Does that sound biased or Not? No BS answer honestly.

 

[saranya]

how about them Cowboys?

 

[OldBoy]

I haven't placed judgement on you yet. In fact words can be deceiving. Despite this intilectual debate I actually think your cool. I respect your point of view and enjoy the debate. What I meant to say it's like saying green and red are both good colors and to each his own then go and point out what you feel is 5 bonus things about red. Yet failed to mention any good points about green.

Now above change the word green for nvidia and red for ati.

Seriously, you are intelligent, Does that sound biased or Not? No BS answer honestly.

Fair enough, let's leave it at that I appreciate the kind words. Similarly, I am also enjoying the debate and also respect your opinion.

I guess in the end it just strikes me as disappointing seeing everyone just point to price and performance and end the debate. To the average guy who only cares about numbers in relation to price, it's obvious that the GT is the clear winner against the XL. If it so happens that the majority only cares about this then the GT will stomp the XL. Of course that's assuming prices remain constant. We know that they typically do not especially in the face of competition. At the end of the month we could be looking at equal pricing or a $30 disparity in which case price becomes moot for most people. Then those same people who were part of the crowd stomping the XL may change their minds and buy XLs. Then again it depends on whether most buyers play DX or OpenGL games.

I think you're making it too clear cut. The colors analogy is implying that videocards are black and white. Unfortunately for us, and the reason intelligent people can disagree, is that they're not. Price is a factor, performance is a factor, features are a factor, IQ is a factor, etc.

Take the case of a car. Okay, two cars. One car corners better (DirectX) but the other car has a better 0-60 time (OpenGL) Now the first car costs $3,000 more than the latter car. Well, depending on whether someone is concerned with corners or flat line speed may mean that spending an extra three grand is justified in that person't mind. Now consider that the first car, looks "cooler" (IQ), some people may not care, as what it looks like is not relevant to how it drives. Others may value looks as much as performance; others may value it MORE than performance. I hope you're beginning to see my point.

 

[OldBoy]

how about them Cowboys?

They lost to the Raiders. 'nuff said (and I'm a Raiders fan)

 

[nunyabiz]

Fair enough, let's leave it at that I appreciate the kind words. Similarly, I am also enjoying the debate and also respect your opinion.

I guess in the end it just strikes me as disappointing seeing everyone just point to price and performance and end the debate. To the average guy who only cares about numbers in relation to price, it's obvious that the GT is the clear winner against the XL. If it so happens that the majority only cares about this then the GT will stomp the XL. Of course that's assuming prices remain constant. We know that they typically do not especially in the face of competition. At the end of the month we could be looking at equal pricing or a $30 disparity in which case price becomes moot for most people. Then those same people who were part of the crowd stomping the XL may change their minds and buy XLs. Then again it depends on whether most buyers play DX or OpenGL games.

I think you're making it too clear cut. The colors analogy is implying that videocards are black and white. Unfortunately for us, and the reason intelligent people can disagree, is that they're not. Price is a factor, performance is a factor, features are a factor, IQ is a factor, etc.

Take the case of a car. Okay, two cars. One car corners better (DirectX) but the other car has a better 0-60 time (OpenGL) Now the first car costs $3,000 more than the latter car. Well, depending on whether someone is concerned with corners or flat line speed may mean that spending an extra three grand is justified in that person't mind. Now consider that the first car, looks "cooler" (IQ), some people may not care, as what it looks like is not relevant to how it drives. Others may value looks as much as performance; others may value it MORE than performance. I hope you're beginning to see my point.

QFT