New Zen 2 Leak

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by DuronBurgerMan, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I am very familiar with the difference. I have worked in Engineering development and testing my entire career.

    What I don't understand is how you can see a random result pop up in a results database and say with certainty which type of sample it is.
     
  2. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    If you check the link that I gave you. I already mentioned then that the codename of a qualification sample starts with a Z whereas engineering samples start with a number. I used Ryzen samples as illustration.

    The codename of the chip appeared now is ZS1406E2VJUG5_22/14_N. The decoding is

    Z = Qualification sample
    S = Server
    140 = 1.4GHz Base
    6 = Revision 6
    E2 = unknown TDP
    V = SP3 socket
    J = 64C
    U = 64x 512 KB L2 + 256 MB L3
    G5 = Rome
    22 = 2.2GHz Boost
    14 = 1.4GHz Base

    An engineering sample appeared months ago. It was 2S1404E2VJUG5_20/14_N

    2 = Second gen engineering sample
    S = Server
    140 = 1.4GHz Base
    4 = Revision 4
    E2 = unknown TDP
    V = SP3 socket
    J = 64C
    U = 64x 512 KB L2 + 256 MB L3
    G5 = Rome
    20 = 2.0GHz Boost
    14 = 1.4GHz Base
     
  3. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    If you are referring to the X299 overheating fiasco from awhile back, I asked some motherboard manufacturers about that and got similar responses from different manufacturers. They all said that Intel moved up the launch date to try and steal some of AMD's thunder and as a result, they didn't have time to revise their cooling hardware to handle the more demanding CPU's offered at the time. If that's true, then it isn't Intel's fault beyond moving up the launch date by two months. It was a similar story when CPU's like AMD's Threadripper 2990WX came out and boards like ASUS' Zenith Extreme ran super hot. ASUS didn't change anything beyond offering newer motherboards with a ghetto fan to put on your MOSFET coolers. GIGABYTE and MSI had designs that ran cooler due to a better design all around and superior VRM cooling hardware. They still created newer models that handled that CPU better than their first generation X399 boards did. I have no doubt the X399 Designare could handle it, but revised cooling was created for newer motherboards after the X399 Designare was released.
     
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  4. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan [H]ard|Gawd

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    What was throwing him was probably the 900MHz reported clock. AMD obviously isn't launching a 900MHz Rome 64c.

    Explanation is either erroneous reporting of base clock, underclocking for testing reasons, or broken sample. Because otherwise I agree that this is a QS, and thus close to final clocks. 1.4/2.2 sounds right-ish for this.
     
  5. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Screenshot (78).png

    Definitely looks like there are traces for a second chiplet (be it another 8 core / 16 thread CPU chiplet or a Navi GPU chiplet) to be implemented on the package...
     
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  6. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    As expected, the leak is fake.

    This thread should be locked.
     
  7. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    So, let's see...
    14nm + 7nm chiplet: ✔
    Announced at CES: ✖ **yes, but not specs, still tbd

    Don't see how you could say it's outright fake just because no specs were announced...

    I do agree that the thread should be locked, however.
     
  8. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    That is hardly surprising to anyone that has been paying attention.

    You don't need to watch AdoredTV to know that.
     
  9. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    So it's fake because it's obvious? It's fake because not everything was confirmed when he thought it would be? It's fake because...?
     
  10. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeppers, it is all fake because it was not all revealed exactly as the rumors stated...!!!

    And these arseholes over in the AMD @ CES thread, going on about how the AMD CPU pricing should match the Intel CPU pricing...

    WTF, WTF, WTF...?!?!?!?!?

    Why would folks want to drive up the AMD pricing...?

    I, for one, would welcome the lower cost AMD CPUs...

    I am perfectly happy with the future AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 8c/16t CPU being 1/3 the cost of the i9-9900K...

    I would be perfectly happy with the AMD Ryzen 9 3850X 16c/32t CPU being 30 bucks cheaper than the i9-9900K...

    It is a pretty simple concept, come in with a quality product that outperforms the competition at a lower price than the competition...

    This is how AMD regains market share...
     
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  11. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Their probably paid shills to troll AMD. Look at nV attacking AMD about thier new GPU. Why wouldn't Intel pull a George Soros like move and pay trolls.
     
  12. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    None of the products that video said would be announced at CES were announced at CES.

    Furthermore, AMD don't name and price its products until close to release (and definitely not 5 months away).
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 12:28 AM
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  13. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    That doesn't mean it's fake. It very well could have come from someone inside AMD or someone who knows someone inside AMD. They might have heard someone throwing around random numbers and jotted them down, or they could have made them all up and sent them on their own. Yes there's a real possibility that most or all of that information had been made up, and it may have even been put out by AMD to stir up excitement prior to release, or by some other company to set up false hope.

    Have you seen any other leaks? Are they any more credible than these?
     
  14. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    Had I posted this fake ****, I would have been crucified by now.

    I have posted numerous accurate leaks over the past couple of years, yet people here keep questioning my legitimacy.
     
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  15. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Get over yourself, it's rumor and speculation and were going to discuss it. You being right or wrong matters little, tho if you do get it right most will tip a hat to you. No one is just going to believe you just cause anymore then they will just believe me just cause. Hell some people dont even believe Kyle even when hes been proven right lots of times and on occasion he gets it wrong and admits it. It's a hardware forum site all about computer tech, go figure we like to speculate and discuss what may be coming and what is currently out there. You also didn't tell us all about that new Vega II coming either, along with everyone else. Don't be like juanrga and make it all about you being right, it's a dark path. Most people find discussing rumors and speculation to be fun.
     
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  16. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    You are right that people selectively choose what they want to believe.

    Photos and specifications of Radeon VII were sent to multiple websites back in December, yet only one obscure website chose to publish them.
     
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  17. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    I find funny how you mention me so often. This start looking as an insane obsesion.
     
  18. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Yep, people are assholes on the net and some don't care what you have to say whether it's right or not. Doesn't mean you have to be the same as them.
     
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  19. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why close this thread? No confirmation of if he's right yet? Just people jumping the gun.
     
  20. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Assuming we get specs & pricing & release dates come Computex 2019, a good 4 1/2 months of rumor mongering remains...! ;^p
     
  21. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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  22. Calavaro

    Calavaro Whiskey & Honey

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    According to the site you linked 12 and 16 core Ryzens do exist. If the 16 core variant are called Ryzen 9 or not remains to be seen, but that's the logical step anyway. What doesn't exist is a CPU+GPU on this package config. The "APU" based Zen2 is an entire different package.
    If you are talking "TDP", AMD's stance has been to have backwards compatibility with previous gen mainboards for drop in support. So they probably are picking out the golden samples and packaging them up as the 12 and 16 core variants and trying to keep them within the power envelope. If they can do it or not, we don't know. But, there have been clear rumors about new mainboards for the Ryzen 9 range to fit with the new power requirements of the Ultra High End.
     
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  23. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Would it even be necessary to have the R9 be backwards compatible? That product level didn't even exist... Provide suggested config to partners, and if they don't have something capable then they must work on something new.

    Is being chipset and socket compatible = to overall motherboard compatibility? I say no.
     
  24. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    The site doesn't claim 12 and 16 cores exist, albeit we know a 12 core engineering sample there exists. The link says top SKU is 105W. The Ryzen 9 I mentioned are 125W and 135W, so those SKUs (see below) don't exist.

    Ryzen-3000-Specs-Leak.png
     
  25. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Who knows what will happen.
    I think it's early to say those parts won't exist.
     
  26. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Having one without the other is a bit silly; we're seeing that now as AMD's AM4 lineup evolves. Grabbing the best from each generation of Zen and getting the most out of it has required a motherboard upgrade each time, and it's been on the consumer to figure it all out. This is the downfall of half-assed 'compatibility'.
     
  27. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    It gives you options, what's not to like....
    With Intel you bought a new board no matter what. At least with AMD you only have to if you want too 99% of the time.
     
  28. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    That's the point- if you're actually upgrading the CPU, with AMD, you're buying a new board too. You just have to know that. With Intel it's guaranteed to work.

    The companies took different routes with the same basic result. I understand AMD attempts to appeal to the masses, but I also understand Intel's position, and personally, I prefer stuff to just work.
     
  29. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Eh i dunno.
    Plenty of upgrades would have worked for me in am4 without changing boards.
     
  30. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    But what about to Zen 2?

    Intel has a pretty good cadence of two, sometimes three generations per platform. But by the time you get to a second upgrade, enough has changed that it's generally not feasible, especially if you're trying to go for top-end parts.

    I just don't find one route superior to the other; one brings edge-case possibilities alongside potential pitfalls, the other forces compatibility.
     
  31. Calavaro

    Calavaro Whiskey & Honey

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    How about direct from Lisa Su then?
    (Emphasis mine)
    Source: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332205/amd/amd-ceo-lisa-su-interview-ryzen-raytracing-radeon.html

    So if 1 chiplet is 8 cores, it stands to reason that 2 chiplets is 16 cores.
    Even a blind and deaf person understands that to be 16 cores are coming. Clock speed, boost, TDP are all TBA.
    And to reiterate part of my previous comment: "If you are talking "TDP", AMD's stance has been to have backwards compatibility with previous gen mainboards for drop in support. So they probably are picking out the golden samples and packaging them up as the 12 and 16 core variants and trying to keep them within the power envelope. If they can do it or not, we don't know. But, there have been clear rumors about new mainboards for the Ryzen 9 range to fit with the new power requirements of the Ultra High End."
     
  32. Calavaro

    Calavaro Whiskey & Honey

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    The upgrade feature that allows AMD to clearly justify the mainboard switch for the higher rumored TDP requirement is PCIe 4 support.
    I wouldn't complain if I got PCIe4 plus a higher TDP capable mainboard to support a 16 core Ryzen 9 3800 series.

    Hell, Intel changes mainboards on the basis their balls itch (aka no reason at all, except profit).
     
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  33. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    We already know there is room for a second compute chiplet. I even said you that we know the existence of a 12C engineering sample. In this video Papermaster seems to confirm 16C.

    It doesn't change my point those leaked 125W and 135W SKUs don't exist because AMD confirmed 105W is the maximum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 11:06 AM
  34. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

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    I think:
    • The yet-to-be-released X570 chipset will use a new yet-to-be-released AM4+ socket.
    • The AM4+ socket will support higher TDP than AM4 in order to support >105W TDP CPUs.
    • The AM4+ socket will be the only socket to support the new R9 Zen2 lineup and its higher-than-105W TDP requirements.
    • The R9 Zen2 will not work in AM4 socket motherboards (ie. not physically fit due to pin changes) and there will be no "backward compatible" R9 released for AM4.
    • The R3, R5 and R7 Zen2 CPUs will be released on AM4 and AM4+ (this only requires a interposer change with different pin layouts to fit each socket).
    • The R3, R5 and R7 Zen2 CPUs will keep TDP under 105W to stay in line with current Zen and Zen+ architectures so the existing AM4-based motherboard VRMs are not stressed any more than the current Zen and Zen+ CPUs do.
    • The lower power of 7nm will allow higher clocks and/or more cores on Zen2 so there will be an upgrade path for current AM4 customers as promised via the R3, R5 and R7 Zen2. Just not the R9 Zen2.
    • There will be an R7 Zen2 on AM4 with 16 cores and 32 threads at some point. Maybe not at launch, but it will happen. 7nm allows this to work at <105W TDP.
    • Less confident prediction: The AM4 versions of R7 16 core/32 thread Zen2 CPUs (and possibly the 12 core/24 thread also) will run at lower clock speeds than the AM4+ versions of the same CPUs due to the lower (<105W) TDP requirements of AM4 (again, due to the existing VRM limitations of current AM4 motherboards).
    EDIT: Rethinking the above and reviewing AdoredTV's chart above, perhaps there will not be an R7 on AM4 with 16 cores/32threads making 12 cores/24 threads the max for AM4 socket simply due to TDP requirements. Maybe 16 cores is just too much for <105W and a reasonable clock speed so AMD would not bother.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 10:53 AM
  35. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    Maybe the process upgrade to EUV/shrink could bring down TDP to get it in the power envelope.
     
  36. Calavaro

    Calavaro Whiskey & Honey

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    Again: new mainboards for the Ryzen 9 range
     
  37. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Well maybe my X370 ASUS CrossHair 6 Hero will get another CPU. All the OCing options with PB0, 1 etc. ASUS put in with the C6H and there was no real difference from what I saw except the C7H was a better board. C6H now is pretty solid as a note. Will be interesting how compatible the motherboards will be with the different Ryzen 2 cpu's. I am pretty sure I will be going TR once Ryzen 2 goes to TR plus the newer motherboard but hey, upgrading the C6H is always an option if it works and works well.
     
  38. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Across the entire Ryzen(exception TR) line?
     
  39. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    You are smart but you seem to act like AMD cant keep something under wraps until its needed.
    Obvious bias intended to sway others opinion is very obvious.
     
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  40. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    While I wish AMD would have announced the Zen 2 (meaning give detailed specs/pricing/release date) at CES 2019, it did not happen...

    There has been talk about the X570 / B550 motherboards not being quite ready yet & this being the delay for announcing / releasing the Zen 2 desktop CPU lineup...

    And the earlier "leak" from Gigabyte clearly has Computex 2019 as the release timeframe for their new X570 motherboards...

    Lisa Su has told us that more information regarding Zen 2 will come "in a few months", which would be right before Computex 2019 (May 28 thru June 1)...

    We should also get more solid information on Navi GPUs in the same timeframe...

    Computex is one of the largest showcases for PC hardware manufacturers...

    What better way to absolutely smack both Intel & Nvidia in the face than to drop a full PCIe Gen 4 system into the consumers lap, with pricing that makes choosing an all-AMD rig a no brainer...

    A Ryzen 9 3850X 16 core / 32 thread monster of a CONSUMER DESKTOP CPU for 500 bucks (same price as the high-end Ryzen 7 1800X on initial release) will demolish Intel sales, as will the rest of the Zen 2 lineup...

    A Radeon RX 3080 Navi GPU, with RTX 2070 / GTX 1080 performance for a $250 price point, along with the other less powerful GPUs in the initial Navi lineup will demolish low to mid range Nvidia sales...

    Come this time next year, there could be a new Top Dog on both the CPU & GPU markets...

    AMD crushing Intel on the price/performance with a ridiculous amount of cores/threads on the desktop, for a price that is within reach of the average consumer, including that $500 "halo" CPU...

    AMD crushing Nvidia on the low to mid end GPU market with a solid price/performance value in the Small Navi GPUs, "hey, no ray tracing, but the price is right"...

    AMD as first manufacturer to come out with PCIe Gen 4 motherboards & CPUs & GPUs...

    And then we will roll into 2020 looking towards some Big Navi GPU love, trading blows with the RTX 2080 Ti (excepting the ray tracing part)...

    Then, just as Intel & Nvidia are trying to fight back with matching hardware (but still inflated "we have no competition" pricing), Zen 3 & Arcturus GPUs appear on the horizon...

    Everyone should start buying AMD stock now...
     
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