New XP Install...apps locking up system

D

DigitalMP

Gawd
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
861
Dell Inspiron 9300, 1.73GHz, 2GB PC5300.

My HD was dying, so I replaced it with a 120GB Seagate ATA-6, and installed XP Pro SP3 (I held off on SP3 prior to this).

At first, the only issue was that my machine would lock up when I right-clicked and opened the Java update icon (in the systray) to turn it off.

Now, when I open Dreamweaver, that locks up too, and when I open a video file in VDM or starting an encode in Windows Media Encoder.

What in the world could this be? I don't have much running in the background, but it seems like I just need to turn a screwdriver somewhere, so to speak.
 
Not meaning to be facetious here, but... have you thought about a reinstall? After so many years of working with Windows, I've learned one infallible fact: it's Windows, and sometimes you just have to accept that. :) I'll bet a reinstall, as much of a hassle as it can be, will resolve the issues. If you just did the installation, it won't hurt quite as much.

These kinds of pseudo-random events just can't effectively be handled sometimes... I've had issues with a clean install that were driving me freakin' insane for no good reason, then rational thought returned and I started over. Clean install the second time, the same files, same CD, same drivers after the installation, etc... went off without a hitch and never caused another problem.

It's not the same OS each time you install it, believe it or not. Each time something is different, even on the same hardware, same drivers, etc.

It's just Windows... kick it once and roll her over again, she'll run better the second time around.
 
Before you go reinstall Windows, at least run a thorough Memtest.
 
Get some imaging software. The split second you get the machine in the working state that you like and it's "perfect," image that fucker on the spot, from the bootable CD that most imaging software creates for you, and save it.

Imaging software is the best thing to happen to PCs in many years, too bad not enough people get that.

And yeah, I should have recommended a RAM test as I had issues recently that were so random and untraceable and it drove me nuts, turned out to be a bad stick of Corsair Ballistix RAM. Sorry about that... ;)
 
He said he's on a fresh install right now. :rolleyes:

OP, you may just have a bad drive. You could try reinstalling it again. Don't tweak services or page file (not saying you are).
 
Like I said: Windows is never the same with two installations. Install it once, take a look at the stats on the drive, bytes used, etc. Wipe it and reinstall it a second time, same hardware, same OS, you'll get different stats when you check after the second installation. It is never exactly the same - nearly 125,000 installs over the years has taught me that Windows is one picky beast and it doesn't sit still.

Hence the recommendation for the second clean install to resolve issues that have cropped up in the first one. But, after he runs memtest for a bit he'll have better ground to stand on. Hopefully he runs it for at least one full cycle...

And running the manufacturer's diagnostic on that hard drive wouldn't be a bad idea, nice tip.
 
bigdogchris said:
He said he's on a fresh install right now. :rolleyes:

OP, you may just have a bad drive. You could try reinstalling it again. Don't tweak services or page file (not saying you are).
Click to expand...

I done thousands of installs over the years. And sometimes, some warm wind blows in from the south that causes some strange anomaly and the OS just doesn't work like it should. It's often easier to just reinstall again than it is to spend hours troubleshooting.

OP -- you did install the proper drivers for your hardware, correct? Are you SURE you got the right ones and they all installed properly? Is there any activity when your apps are "locked up"? Hard drive thrashing? Or does the whole system just hang? Any unknown or disabled devices in device manager? Are your hard drives running in DMA mode? (You'd have very slow boot up and response time if this was the case)

If you've exhausted everything, check the capacitors on the main board. A bad capacitor can yield some very weird results. I've replaced quite a few Dell GX270 motherboards because of bad caps. Might even be worth cracking open the case and looking at the caps (especially around the CPU) as that could save you some troubles of reinstalling if that was the problem.
 
Just wondering being its a laptop, I didn't see you mention that you loaded up the lappy drivers.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. Yeah, I've got the correct drivers. I DLed them all from Dell and updated if there were any, but I've had them packed away on my external drive for easy access when I need to reformat, and I've done so a few times in the last three years.

By the way, memtest passed with stars.

Demon, this is a laptop, but anyways, I'm not sure if my HD (the new one I had to purchase, sparking this procedure) is running in DMA mode. But I have no issues whatsoever in Device Manager.

I will tell you, though, that this task has been cursed from the start. I rebooted Saturday with my XP Pro SP2 CD, and for some reason, the OS wouldn't see my external HD. Over 100 reformats & Windows reinstalls, and this has NEVER happened. The message said HI-speed USB device plugged into a non HI-speed USB port.

Alright, well, let me install my damn chipset drivers! But I couldn't if it wouldn't recognize my drive. So I copied them to my thumbdrive (on another machine) and tried that, but I got a usbehci.sys not found error. WTF, mate?

So I looked into the properties, and saw Windows XP Pro 2002. What?? No SP2? From an SP2 CD (That I've used a couple times before)??? So I installed SP2 on Sunday, which hung at "Checking Product Key", so I had to DL it and install it in Safe Mode. I seemed to be out of the woods from there on, but that's obviously not the case. I guess this had "do it all over again" written all over it.

Edit: for a Seagate drive, are you referring to SeaTools? Reading here, I should just run SeaTools Pro in Windows, right?
 
Have you guys ever heard of an XP Pro SP2 CD not installing SP2? I guess anything's possible though, right? And if that went wrong, then a lot of other less obvious things probably went wrong with the OS install, wouldn't you agree?

I ran the SeaTools SMART Check this morning, and it passed. I ran the Long Drive Self Test while I was at work, and that passed as well. Based on those passing, and the other senseless issues, would it be safe to assume that the Long Generic will pass as well, and that I should just go ahead and reformat?

The reformat, as I specified above, is quite time consuming...much more than a four hour drive test. But it seems to me as though it might just be necessary. Just looking for input from anyone who might have dealt with very similar issues, or that knows how different the Long Generic SeaTools test might be from the others.

Thanks again...
 
So we go back to my original suggestion: do another clean installation. I know it's a bitch, and a chore, and a hassle, but I'll just bet that the second time around all this shit works just fine. The OS, the chipset driver(s), the NIC driver, the video driver, sound driver, etc in that order if necessary and see what happens.

You've covered the RAM, it's fine. You've covered the hard drive, it seems to be fine as well. So it falls back to the OS just being a little bitch and a swift kick in the ass - the second install - will more than likely get all this stuff resolved.

And don't forget about the imaging software, seriously. Seagate has a version of their drive management software that includes a stripped down but still useful edition of True Image included in it for imaging purposes, works on Seagate and Maxtor drives. That would be my recommendation as you said you're using a Seagate 120GB drive now. Get it set up the way you want, and as soon as everything is working just right, image it, right then and there.

Good luck...
 
Alright...where do I start?

I attempted another installation last night and had the same issue (the chipset driver install screwed up, no SP2 -- or SP1 -- and couldn't see my external drive). So this morning, I thought I'd try my SP1 CD, just for fun. Well, it turns out my SP1 CD was my trusty SP2 CD! Everything was working great!

Got my drivers and apps installed at work, with no web connection. Just had to get home, update NOD and Windows Updates and a couple other apps and I'd be ok...right?

Well, right when I plug in at home, Logitech wants to find my MX Desktop bluetooth devices. Locked up my system right away. I figured I'd boot into Safe Mode and uninstall it, then reinstall it with the devices connected. Same thing. Uninstalled again.

Now Nero 8 is making me lock up. But maybe Nero 8 has been the problem all along. I mean, when in doubt, blame Nero, right? I'm going to ditch Nero and try the Logitech stuff again...

*sigh*
 
So the issues that have persisted are hard to isolate, but I talked with a buddy and he thinks that it's a result of the Logitech Bluetooth Driver altering settings that I may not be able to revert unless I reformat again.

When I was at work on Thursday, installing all of my apps (without my Bluetooth USB receiver for my Logitech Desktop connected), there were no issues whatsoever. Then when I got home and plugged in the receiver to detect my keyboard and mouse, as Logitech's Bluetooth Connection Manager (I think within Logitech's Setpoint app) was set to run on Startup, my whole system locked up via the Logitech app window.

So I played around and tried to isolate it...

When the receiver wasn't connected or the Bluetooth Connection Manager wasn't set to run on startup, there was no lockup.

Nero 8 would also lockup my system upon application initialization (even with the Logitech and WIDCOMM Bluetooth apps uninstalled). I uninstalled it, installed Nero 7, and it didn't lock up...I even burned a couple data CDs.

When I first installed the Logitech Setpoint app, it asked me if I wanted to install the Logitech BT Driver, or just use Microsoft's...I opted to install Logitech's. Again, my buddy suggested that it might have changed some communication port settings that I may not be able to track down. Since I've uninstalled the Setpoint app and reinstalled it, using Microsoft's BT driver, is it possible that might not matter, if my buddy's assumption is correct and uninstalling won't revert those changes of settings?

Additionally, when I'm browsing my external HD in Explorer (Seagate 400GB UATA in an Adaptec enclosure, USB 2.0), the Explorer tree in the left pane won't expand (actively) unless I'm opening the folders on the right side by double-clicking on them.

So my issues are Logitech Bluetooth Connection Manager locking me up, Nero 8 locking me up, and external HD explorer issues.

Of course, my next attempt is going to be to f'in reformat for a fourth time, install drivers and my 53 f'in apps, but not installing Logitech's Bluetooth driver, which could resolve the issue if that in face was the culprit.

Any votes on this notion? Nine days on this issue and I'm really in the dark here...
 
Here's a thought..

Do a clean install, setup all your settings and applications how you want them, confirm everything is working properly, then burn an image backup. If anything ever happens in the future, you just re-image the thing. It takes a short amount of time and you don't have to worry about taking all the time to customize your settings and install all your apps over again.

But it seems you narrowed it down, and I'd work on clearing up any software/driver issues you're having.
 
Alright, I wiped it again and reinstalled. Based on the fact that, previously, both Logitech Setpoint and Nero 8 locked me up, I would have either said that it's an OS configuration issue or a physical hard drive issue. And when I say "locked up", I'm talking about screen freeze, mouse cursor hourglass that won't move, but the hard drive is active, spinning/light flashing.

This time, I plugged in my Logitech BT receiver for the cordless desktop, and let the Microsoft BT driver take over. I had no plans to install Setpoint (even without the Logitech BT driver), and I really still don't, but I was worried about Nero 8. After I installed that and rebooted, I fired up Nero, and got the lock up.

I've uninstalled Nero, and I'm going to see if any other issues are even minimally evident over the next few days, and if they are, I'm going to have Seagate replace the drive. Here's the chain of events, and maybe someone can weigh in.

- Installed XP Pro SP2.
- Install drivers (chipset, network, video, audio, modem, touchpad, printer)
- Minor Windows configs (taskbar, start menu, etc.)
- Installed apps. Here are the apps, pretty close to the order I installed them in (I started Windows Updates right after the Office installation):

  • NOD32 2.5
  • PC Tools Firewall Plus 4
  • Winzip
  • WinRAR
  • Unlocker
  • Folder Size
  • CCleaner
  • HijackThis
  • AdAware
  • Super Antisypware
  • Microsoft Office Professional 2003
  • Java Runtime
  • Microsoft .NET Framework 2.2
  • Adobe Acrobat
  • Adobe Shockwave
  • iPod
  • iTunes
  • Mozilla Firefox 3.0
  • Macromedia Flash Plug-in for Firefox
  • Winamp 5
  • TweakUI
  • WS_FTP
  • Nero 8.3.2.1

At this point, I have not configured anything with TweakUI, although anything I've used it for was pretty low level (autorun, shortcut style, autologon, Desktop icons). Furthermore, all of these apps and more were in my installation before I replaced the hard drive, and I had no problems like this.

Right now, however, I'm not experiencing the Explorer headaches I was before I wiped it clean yesterday, so I guess we'll see what happens. I'm going to put all the blame on Nero until something else arise.

Thanks for listening to me rant...please weigh in if you have any valuable input.
 
Thank you, thank you, ladies and gentlemen! We're back, with tonight's production of Digital's F'ed XP Installllllll (applause) Starring, himself....Digitalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Alright, so, I thought I had it pinned to Nero. So much, to the point that I was installing and configuring between tasks at the office today, planning my attack on installing Setpoint with the MS driver, and then again with the Logitech driver, just to prove that Nero 8 was the culprit. After all, what's ANOTHER reformat & reinstall?

Low and behold, with about 7 or 8 apps to go, in goes DVD Shrink. I started it up after installation...LOCK!

Setpoint...
Nero 8 with Setpoint...
Then a clean install, Nero 8 without Setpoint...
And now DVD Shrink?

At this point, is there any way it CAN'T be the hard drive??
 
And now VDM locks up the machine when I open a video in it...way too many different apps for this not to be the hard drive.
 
I've never seen a hard drive fail in that way.

I'd suspect something else first.
 
I'm running out of things to suspect...

What am I left with besides mobo and drivers? And if it's one of them, how do I narrow it down?

What do Logitech Setpoint, Nero 8 (Nero 7 didn't lock me up), DVD Shrink, and VDM have in common? What am I overlooking here?
 
The CD drive? Motherboard? CPU?

Run some hard drive diags. Do some CPU and memory stress testing on a clean, empty install. Do some 3DMark and PCMark testing on a clean empty install.

Do some stress testing with the hard drive unplugged and running off a Linux Live CD.
 
At this point it really sounds hardware related. Prime suspects would be an overheating CPU or southbridge chip. System fans on old Dell laptops like to fail in sneaky ways.

In my experience if you're getting HDD lights but a system lock it's a controller failure somewhere, either on the laptop mobo or on the drive itself (or possibly because the disk is currently undergoing enthusiastic self-disassembly). However a disk diagnostic would sort that out immediately, so it seems unlikely.

I agree with kumquat, you need to just stress test it. Run HDTach and Orthos and try to make it fail.

This being a laptop, failing all else it might simply be time to take it out behind the barn and shoot it.
 
Ooh I totally missed that it was a laptop.

Have you taken it apart and given it a thorough cleaning yet? I've seen a few laptops fail in weird ways that ended up having heatsinks and fans 100% clogged with hair and dust.
 
Well, the HD is < 2 weeks old, and the diagnostic passed, as did MEMTEST on my 8 month old RAM.

You guys lost me in all of the stress testing advice. 3DMark? PCMark? HDTach? Orthos? Ouch...

So to clean it, should I just canned air it out? I'll take it apart tomorrow night and see what's going on in there.
 
Download the service manual and remove all the parts necessary to expose the fan and heatsink assemblies. Clean them out with canned air, tweezers, etc.

If that doesn't help, reseating the cooling assembly with some thermal paste might help. Sometimes the stuff breaks down over time.
 
Alright...I opened it up and the fans had a little bit of dust, but nothing caked on. I blew them out a bit, but I'm going to get some canned air tomorrow and do it again.

The cooling assembly...is that the heat sink? I'll try to track down some thermal paste tomorrow and reseat that.

This was my first time ever inside a laptop, and I've installed processors in desktops before, so it looked a bit unfamiliar, but I should be alright.

One more thing...you guys are suggest that these parts are overheating, causing the lockups. But while the applications that are involved in the lock ups are somewhat random, the situations are consistent:

Logitech Setpoint's Bluetooth Connection Manager: Upon app initialization
Nero 8: Upon app initialization
VDM: When opening a video file
DVD Shrink: Upon app initialization

I can't imagine it's overheating RIGHT at these instances every time to make the system lock up. It's way too consistent for something like an overheat, wouldn't you say?
 
Well, I'd suspect motherboard/chipset, but that's sort of one of the things you can't possibly test or fix...
 
You reinstalled, so software is less likely. If the issue is that reproduceable, then I wonder what is being 'touched' by the system. Bad video card memory? Cracked mobo traces? The apps in question may simply be doing something intensive for a moment on startup, or do system I/O in such a way to trigger borderline hardware. This is why I hate laptops... when they go, they really go. The only way to know for sure would be to take the HDD and stick it in another box of the same config and see.

Have you tried Orthos yet? It would reveal overheating issues real quick.
 
Thanks!

I DLed SP2004, since my chip isn't dual core.

Are there any recommendations for running this? It runs in Windows, so I assume I should have very minimal activity running, right? How long should I run it for?

I guess I should probably move this to hardware...
 
So I was at the gym and my buddy suggested that Service Pack 3 might be the culprit.

And now that I'm thinking, I had never installed SP3 on my old HD, and no issues were relevant in either of these five XP installs in the past two weeks before the install of SP3.

Needless to say, I had quite the rage-induced workout, all channeled in the direction of Service Pack 3. I wasn't able to chin-up with a 45 lb plate chained to my waist, but it was definitely a positive (cue up Godsmack - Re-align). I'm going to go slide my hard drive into the slot on my ex-gf's box and see if the issues persist.

So help me whoever, SP3, if you're to blame, you'd better run...and run fast.
 
Service Pack 3 has been spared a gruesome death.

After the last option, convinced hardware was the culprit, was to install OS and drivers, and then the problem apps, everything seemed to work fine with no other 3rd party apps installed.

So, what was it, you ask? PC Tools Firewall 4.0.0.40

I never would have imagined, but I guess everything's a learning experience.
 
Dude, you could have totally avoided all this hassle and totally ruled out hardware if you had just run some stress testing on a totally clean, empty install or off a Linux Live CD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top