New WC Setup

J

JJU357

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
433
I've been thinking about changing my case and adding a WC setup to my current computer, but need some advice and some help planning this out. Money is not really an issue until we get up over a grand, but remember I need a case too. I'm running the following components currently in a P180 (which is way too cramped for WC equipment):

A64 X2 3800+
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium
2GB PC4000 G.Skill Ram
3 WD HDDs (2x74GB Raptors, 1x250GB)
2x7800GT Video Cards in SLI (1xBFG,1xeVGA)
2xPioneer DVD Writers (1xDVR-110, 1xDVR-108)
Enermax Liberty 620W Modular PSU

I'm thinking I really like th Lian Li V2000BW, which is black and has a window, and it is not nearly as expensive as the TJ-07. I was thinking about using 2 radiators (a 120.1 in the back and a 120.2 BIXP (the single pass ones) with a cuplex XT, AC ASUS mosfet block, AC SLI NB block, 2xAC Aquagra 7800, and aquabay with aquatube, and contemplating an aquero. I have a few questions:

1) Will the aquastream pump be powerful enough for this rather extended loop? Or should I go with a different pump?
2) Does anyone have any other recommendations as to blocks or rads or their placement in the case?
3) Should I get an aquero and if so what other pieces should I get with it?

Any help is greatly appriciated.
 
i'm not in the least a fan of A-C equipment, as i favour performance before looks, however as for the rad: erasmus and a few others have done nice builds using the PA160.1 rad in the P-180 case.

the thermochill PA160.1 gets equal performance per noise to most two fan rads on the market. with a little modification to the case, it seems to fit like a dream.

you need to remove the HDD cage to fit the PA160 most easily, but if you then use the FDD bays and a bay adaptor(s) for your HDDs you should be fine.

the laing DDC pump offers excellent head pressure, and is still pretty quiet. it is not AS quiet as the eheim 1046 that the aquastream is based off of, however it is still about 10X quieter than a running HDD. it should be low enough flowing to work with the A-C res and the added head pressure is especially helpfull with multi-block loops. if you are using 3/8" ID tubing (only slightly bigger than 8mm tubing) it is a pump to seriously consider.
 
JJU357 said:
I've been thinking about changing my case and adding a WC setup to my current computer, but need some advice and some help planning this out. Money is not really an issue until we get up over a grand, but remember I need a case too. I'm running the following components currently in a P180 (which is way too cramped for WC equipment):

A64 X2 3800+
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium
2GB PC4000 G.Skill Ram
3 WD HDDs (2x74GB Raptors, 1x250GB)
2x7800GT Video Cards in SLI (1xBFG,1xeVGA)
2xPioneer DVD Writers (1xDVR-110, 1xDVR-108)
Enermax Liberty 620W Modular PSU

I'm thinking I really like th Lian Li V2000BW, which is black and has a window, and it is not nearly as expensive as the TJ-07. I was thinking about using 2 radiators (a 120.1 in the back and a 120.2 BIXP (the single pass ones) with a cuplex XT, AC ASUS mosfet block, AC SLI NB block, 2xAC Aquagra 7800, and aquabay with aquatube, and contemplating an aquero. I have a few questions:

1) Will the aquastream pump be powerful enough for this rather extended loop? Or should I go with a different pump?
2) Does anyone have any other recommendations as to blocks or rads or their placement in the case?
3) Should I get an aquero and if so what other pieces should I get with it?

Any help is greatly appriciated.
Click to expand...

Your configuration will work great! I suggest using a Thermochill or BIX radiator (single 120.2 would work). The pump is designed for these blocks and runs perfect with multiple blocks in one loop. Rule of thumb is two loops would be better, if you can afford the extra 100.00 for another aquastream.

As for the Aquaero, it is your choice but it sure does top of a fine AC build.

As for all the nay sayers who will try and cap on your wants, they are just jealous ;)
 
I dunno how much this helps you, but here's what my H2O-cooled P180 looks like...

H2O003.jpg


Yes, I know my wiring is nothing short of craptacular, but there's no window on my side panel and it's SILENT.

CPU idle temps: 29-33
CPU load temp: 38-41

GPU idle temps: 30-34
GPU load temps: < 45
 
R1ckCa1n said:
As for all the nay sayers who will try and cap on your wants, they are just jealous ;)
Click to expand...
yep.....i'm totally envious of the above-ambient temps that A-C users as well as other strait watercoolers get.

really.........i thought that you and i had at least much straight at this point.

i am not knocking the cuplex XT block. it has been well reviewed and showed itself to be a good block, even it it is not the absolute top performer. it's solid, and i'm not knocking it. the nexxos has also prooven itself.

3/8" or 8 mm ID tubing are moderate tubing sizes that offers decent performance. i'm offering suggestions that could use A-C blocks, moderate tubing, a quiet and powerfull pump and a really good low-noise rad that would work in his current case.

he could even run an original release DDC or MCP350 off of one of the fan controll headers on the aquaero.......two inline temps sensors to control the pump speed according to the delta from hot to cold and the fan on the rad controlled according to absolute CPU temp.

i'll admit that i wish that i had some better hardware, but i'm not at all envious of your cooling solution.

if i had the cash on hand i'd be building something that offered better cooling performance at about the same noise levels.
 
I'm looking to get a new case. Don't get me wrong I love the P180 but with all the equipment I have it is just going to be too crowded. Especially if I'm look @ two loops. If I do two loops then put the CPU + NB + MOSFET on a single 120 rad and the 2 7800GTs on a dual 120 rad? If i decide not to use AC gear...whats the next best? I don't want to start a high flow low flow debate because it really doesnt matter. I like the AC gear because of looks and because of how all the components fit together nicely. I don't like to have to "rig" things up to make them fit or work together. I will if I need to but I'd rather just have it be as uncomplicated as possible.
 
I'd also agree with the DDC pump. Although slightly louder than the 1046-based AquaStream pump, you may find that the additional performance is a good trade-off. With the AlphaCool plexi-top (in a top outlet/side inlet) configuration, the performance of the DDC nearly matches the performance of the Laing D4 with a less substancial heat dump. For the restrictive Cuplex XT, this is really the ideal pump under $100.

I see no need of controlling pump speed relative to water temperature unless one would be interested in a real project.

If you want one of the best cases ever made, grab a Mountain Mods UFO. The "price is no object" case.
 
phide said:
I see no need of controlling pump speed relative to water temperature unless one would be interested in a real project.
Click to expand...
i'm not necessarily advocating this as the ultimate answer for everyone..........

thing is, for those who want a really quiet system when it's at idle running torrents or whatever and no sound through the speakers to mask the system noise, dynamic pump speeds with a pump that is slightly louder than they want to deal with at all times might be a viable comprimise.

the DDC is a really solid pump. it's a bit louder than the eheim 1046. for those who are really sensitive to noise, a dynamically controlled DDC might allow for higher peak performance with a super-low idle noise level for those who are unsusally sensitive to noise.
 
I like the DDC, it seems like a very good pump, however, if I use it, then all the blocks are going to need 3/8" fittings, which makes all the blocks more expensive and for the same price, I could just use the aquastream. So my question is, will the performance be much better with the DDC than with the aquastream, especially in my rather large loop? Or should I just do two loops, one with a DDC and one with an aquastream? hah!

EDIT: noise is not really a huge concern, the P180 I have all teh fans on loud and with the fan I have on my XP-120 it makes alot of noise, and does nto bother me, yes I want quieter than now, but it does nto have to be super quiet.
 
Or you can get adaptors from 3/8 to whatever size you want. Performance will be better with the DDC, cause it pushes a lot more.
 
JJU357 said:
I'm looking to get a new case. Don't get me wrong I love the P180 but with all the equipment I have it is just going to be too crowded. Especially if I'm look @ two loops. If I do two loops then put the CPU + NB + MOSFET on a single 120 rad and the 2 7800GTs on a dual 120 rad? If i decide not to use AC gear...whats the next best? I don't want to start a high flow low flow debate because it really doesnt matter. I like the AC gear because of looks and because of how all the components fit together nicely. I don't like to have to "rig" things up to make them fit or work together. I will if I need to but I'd rather just have it be as uncomplicated as possible.
Click to expand...
well, in all seriousness.........

your mosfets won't benifit from watercooling. mosfets actually run more efficiently when they are warm. if you have a decent thermal compound between them and a passive 'sink, then case airflow from your PSU and rad should be enough to keep them in their optimal opperating range. the only reason to watercool mosfets is for bragging rights. it does nothing beneficial.

the PA160.1 offers enough cooling power to keep you NB, CPU and GPU at good temps, with low noise levels. if you move up to a differnt case with a thermochill PA120.3, that would allow for even lower fan noise, and better temps. that being said, if you're considering A-C gear, you're not worrying about temps to begin with.

so far as i am concerned, running either a DD maze 4 chipset block for asus A8N or swiftech MCW30 on the chipset, either a swiftech MCW60 or silverprop fusion SLs on the GPUS, a swiftech storm on the CPU, a laing DDC (from swiftech, DD or D-Tek), thermochill PA160.1, whatever res you like and 3/8 ' tubing all around should offer good performance at low noise levels.

upgrade to the DDC revision 2 for improved performance, same noise level, but you might not be able to run with an aquatube res. the 18 watt draw on the revision two also means that you can't run it off of an aquaero, but that's only an issue if you're trying to really limit noise.

if you move up to a larger case, then the thermochill PA120.3, with two DDC rev. 2 pumps and a decent res.
 
Only reason I choose to cool the MOSFETs is because in the A8N SLI Premium they are part of the NB heatsink, so if I cool the NB with water, so must the MOSFETS be cooled. Dp you have a link to this PA 120.3 or PA160.1? I can't seem to find the radiator anywhere to take a look at it. Also, will the swiftech or dangerden NB blocks fit under my two video cards with the SLI chipset? (The AC SLI NB cooler fits on just about every board, which is nice. Thanks for all the help by the way
 
JJU357 said:
Only reason I choose to cool the MOSFETs is because in the A8N SLI Premium they are part of the NB heatsink, so if I cool the NB with water, so must the MOSFETS be cooled. Dp you have a link to this PA 120.3 or PA160.1? I can't seem to find the radiator anywhere to take a look at it. Also, will the swiftech or dangerden NB blocks fit under my two video cards with the SLI chipset? (The AC SLI NB cooler fits on just about every board, which is nice. Thanks for all the help by the way
Click to expand...
the manufacturer of the rads in question: http://www.thermochill.com/

dangerden is the north american vendor for their product.

dangerden makes a block that they rate as compatible with all asus A8N boards. have a look if you like. http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=160&cat=46&page=1

same deal with the swiftech chipset block. "fully compatible with all asus A8N SLI models." http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw30.asp

the vendors could be lying, i suppose, but if you really want to check up on them you can drop them a line and talk to them.

you can cool mosfets passively using raminks attached with a thermal compound-thermal epoxy mix. in my experience, it works quite well for VGA memory, MOSFETs, and Vreg chips. about half and half arctic silver thermal epoxy and arctic silver thermal paste. it is removable and performs well.
 
Ok I think This might work.

What if I use a two loop solution in the larger V2000BW case. Storm CPU block, DDV pump, danger den NB block and some ramsinks or soemthing on the mosfets. This cooled by a single 120 mm radiator @ back of case (PA120.1 or BIP 120.1)

Second loop with ddc pump, dual MCW60's with ramsinks on a dual 120 radiator.

Both loops will have a res, but also should I use double pass radiators or single pass radiators?
 
Bbq said:
Or you can get adaptors from 3/8 to whatever size you want. Performance will be better with the DDC, cause it pushes a lot more.
Click to expand...
i suppose that this is kind of a symantic point, however.......

the original laing DDC, sold as the swifech MCP350 or the original DD DDC-12V offers 350 litres per hour peak flow. http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp350.asp

depending on what you have it set to, the aquastream ranges from 300 litres per hour to 500 litres per hour peak flow. http://www.aquacomputer.de/content/pumpen.htm

the key difference between thess two pumps is not the peak flow that they offer, but rather the nature of their flow curves.

in a highly restrictive cooling loop, with many blocks, the greater head offered by the DDC will offer better performance. in a low restriction loop, the aquastream opperating at its highest setting should run as well or better than the DDC.

i really am not trying to slam either pump. these days i'm trying to have an informed opinion, and i'm trying to give others a fair assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of different components.
 
use the double pass radiators, and also use the dual 120mm radiator for the loop with the CPU. I think that loop might put out slightly more heat, although it is pretty much even. I guess it depends whether you plan on pushing your CPU or your GPUs more.

EDIT : Daishi... "semantic" (sorry had to do it)
 
JJU357 said:
Ok I think This might work.

What if I use a two loop solution in the larger V2000BW case. Storm CPU block, DDC pump, danger den NB block and some ramsinks or soemthing on the mosfets. This cooled by a single 120 mm radiator @ back of case (PA120.1 or BIP 120.1)

Second loop with ddc pump, dual MCW60's with ramsinks on a dual 120 radiator.

Both loops will have a res, but also should I use double pass radiators or single pass radiators?
Click to expand...
a single loop with a single 120.3 rad shoud offer the same temps with less tubing.

your solution should work fine as well, but might not yield as good CPU temps. the difference in temps might or might not affect your OC.

there are benifits to running a single pass rad, however they can be offset by the efficiency to the fin arrangement on the dry side of the rad. the single pass black ice rads have not been independantly reviewed, so i don' t feel comfortable commenting on how they stack up to the competition. thermochill prides themselves on offering quality product, even if they can't compete on pricing.

even then, the benifits of a thermochill rad are minimal. these rads are for people willing to play the dimminishing returns game. you said that price isn't a big issue, which is the only reason that i mentioned them. they are th best rads going, but they still don't gain you much over the competition.
 
Ok, so i think this is how it is going to go:

Loop 1: DDC pump, Storm CPU Block, danger den ASUS SLI block, some dual 120 mm dual pass radiator, and a res.

Loop 2: DDC pump, 2xMCW60 blocks with ramsinks, a dual pass radiator (2x120) and a res.

Now the only questions that remain are:

1) Which DDC pump...there is a compact one and a bigger one correct? Which one is better?
2) What radiators? I've used Black Ice radiators in the past. Are the thermochill radiators much better than the black ice radiators?
3) Or there is the single loop option with a triple 120 rad or two rads in one loop...I'd be more inclined to do 2 rads in one loop because of case layout.
 
JJU357 said:
1) Which DDC pump...there is a compact one and a bigger one correct? Which one is better?
2) What radiators? I've used Black Ice radiators in the past. Are the thermochill radiators much better than the black ice radiators?
3) Or there is the single loop option with a triple 120 rad or two rads in one loop...I'd be more inclined to do 2 rads in one loop because of case layout.
Click to expand...
1)both revisions of the laing DDC are the same size. the laing D5 is larger, better performing, and noisier, but that's a differernt pump all together. both pumps are good pumps, but what you choose depends on the res you want to use and whether or not you want to control the pump speed with a controller.

2) thermochill rads are only slightly better. not a lot better, only slightly.

3) i think i've already been over this.......a single triple rad of your choice, or a double and a single at a slight flow penalty. two DDC pumps, one after the other, and the rest of the loop order doesn't matter much other than the res should be immediately before the first pump.
 
If I have two pumps already though wouldn't it just be better to have two seperate loops...especially if I use a double 120 rad on both loops? I think that will give best flow and best performance with two rads and two pumps, but requires two res which isn't really a big deal. Unless you see a major problem with this I think this is how I'm going to go.
 
JJU357 said:
If I have two pumps already though wouldn't it just be better to have two seperate loops...especially if I use a double 120 rad on both loops? I think that will give best flow and best performance with two rads and two pumps, but requires two res which isn't really a big deal. Unless you see a major problem with this I think this is how I'm going to go.
Click to expand...
i don't see a major proble with this plan.

two DDC pumps in series offer 1.5 times as much head and just as much flow as a single DDC. the added rad realestate in your plan might or might not offset the increase in head.

i'm just suggestnig somthing that is simpler and should perform as well.

by all means, do what you like and please post the results.
 
Ok well I'm not final on it. I think I might order the case and one double rad first and see how the realestate plays out...because I want it to be very clean. Thanks for all the help Daishi, you were very very helpful.
 
JJU357 said:
Ok well I'm not final on it. I think I might order the case and one double rad first and see how the realestate plays out...because I want it to be very clean. Thanks for all the help Daishi, you were very very helpful.
Click to expand...
now now.......just remmeber that i am also often offensive.........most especially to those who sacrifice cooling for looks, regardless of how much or little that affects their overclock.

be on you guard: i'm a real bastard.
 
Lol I meant i wasn't final on one or two loops, you have convinced me to stick with this swiftech equipment as it is better performing at a much lower price. I know money isn't an issue but if I save $500, I just might have to buy an xbox 360 or something. Anyways, thanks for all the help again, even if you do come attack me later ;)
 
DFI Daishi said:
i'm not necessarily advocating this as the ultimate answer for everyone..........
Click to expand...

NO, you are just advocating anything other than what the OP is asking for.........

Mission accomplished, you got him to buying NOT what he was interested in from the beginning. :rolleyes:
 
The OP has no gun to his head here, R1ck. Everyone here has the capability to act on their own agendas, regardless of outside influence. You know that as well as anyone else.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
NO, you are just advocating anything other than what the OP is asking for.........

Mission accomplished, you got him to buying NOT what he was interested in from the beginning. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
you'll notice what i started out with was still using A-C blocks, and i didn't say that "teh storm is teh roxor" or any such until the OP asked for an alternative to A-C.

i made a well reasoned case for why the parts i mentioned are a better bet than A-C parts. the OP then made his own decision regarding what parts he WANTED.

the only thing that A-C has going for them is the look of their stuff. if the OP wants those looks he is free to go out and buy A-C gear. if the OP has other priorities, then he should be looking at other gear, and if he did so as a result of me talking to him about watercooling equipment then i don't see how anyone has room for complaint.
 
Why don't we settle this argument since the OP thinks its quite trivial.

My main requirement for WC gear was that it all work together nicely. I DO NOT CARE FOR LOOKS. PERFORMANCE IS THE SECOND BIG THING. LOOKS ARE UNIMPORTANT.

While the AC gear performs nicely, from what i hear, the swoftech stuff is slightly better and as long as I use 3/8" tubing, it will all work together just as easily as the AC gear while costing me significantly less. While money is not a factor for me, I do not like to waste money. These were the reasons I chose to take Daishi's decision to heart. I will probably not use the thermochill radiators for their marginal performance gain, despite his recommendation, but will use his pump and block suggestions.

And no, no gun was held to my head. But like most consumers, I am likely to listen to whoever provides me with the most information and lets me make a decision for myself, which is exactly what Daishi did, and hence why I thanked him.

Hopefully this thread can die unless someone else has suggestions, otherwise lets stop arguing over who forced who to do anything.
 
Since you are open to suggestions, don't ask advice on a product you have no intention of buying....... Also since looks isn't important, I would strongly suggest no window in your case. ;)

IF you have actually read this forum you would see people don't buy AC for pure performance; they buy for looks first, silence second, and the fact it performs upwards of %95 as well as a bulky 1/2" based system as a bonus.
 
JJU357 said:
I'm thinking I really like th Lian Li V2000BW, which is black and has a window, and it is not nearly as expensive as the TJ-07.
Click to expand...
With the exception of the TJ07, IMO all of the compartmented case designs are a PITA to watercool.
This includes the highly touted (and vastly overhyped) LL v-series.

For an easy case to install almost any configuration of waterloop into, consider the original Stacker (not the later 810/830 variants).
 
sprocket said:
For an easy case to install almost any configuration of waterloop into, consider the original Stacker (not the later 810/830 variants).
Click to expand...

QFT - you can fit a 120.3 radiator in there without cutting.
 
sprocket said:
For an easy case to install almost any configuration of waterloop into, consider the original Stacker (not the later 810/830 variants).
Click to expand...
I have the original (T-01) and am curious: how is it better than the newer ones for watercooling?
 
The later variants lose the dual PSU option which limits radiator postion choices.
In the original you can place the rad on the floor, the roof or the front bays.
If you choose the floor or the front bays no cutting at all is necessary to fit a 120.2 rad.
A 120.3 will fit up front if you relocate the HDDs.

I chose to mount a 120.3 on the floor which required some metal removal but seemed like the best choice considering all the other components I wanted to fit.
 
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