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New Turtle Beach soundcards!

X

xonik

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Messages
10,318
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/soundcards/catalina/
http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/soundcards/riviera/

Well, after four years with the Santa Cruz, Turtle Beach is at it again with two VIA Envy24 solutions. I am inquiring on the specifics like audio controller and DAC selection, but they appear to be promising at least. The Catalina, which is probably Envy24HT based, retails at $79.95, and the Riviera, which is probably Envy24PT, will retail at $39.95, which are pretty competitive prices.

Details to follow...
 
Thanks for the heads-up xonik, you just made my day :)
edit:
We certainly could use some hard information on what DACs are being used here though.

It's interesting that the Catalina apparently doesn't support >18/48 on analog output (24/96 on the digital output), which seems somewhat arbitrarily limited. If you have a 24 bit capable chip, why not give the owner the ability to use it to it's full potential by slapping a nice Wolfson or Crystal 24 bit DAC on there?

Hopefully the driver quality will make up for any such oversight.

edit #2: actually, the Catalina users manual claims 18/48 is the maximum, corrected
 
I too was relieved to see these product introductions. I personally thought that Turtle Beach would go the way of Guillemot Hercules. Even if TB's solutions rank similarly with Audiotrak, M-Audio, and Terratec, it means that another competitor will be present to keep the prices reasonable.
 
That's why I'm inquiring on the DAC selection especially. I hope your information is wrong. M-Audio used a nice AKM chip, why can't Turtle Beach? It doesn't make any sense, especially since the Santa Cruz features up to 20-bit analog output, if I recall correctly.
 
That's why I'm inquiring on the DAC selection especially. I hope your information is wrong. M-Audio used a nice AKM chip, why can't Turtle Beach? It doesn't make any sense, especially since the Santa Cruz features up to 20-bit analog output, if I recall correctly.
Click to expand...

I hope it is, but I don't think so, since it says 16/48 in the specifications section and 18/48 in the manual proper.

The TBSC does use a 20bit DAC and an 18 bit ADC; it's concievable that this 18 bit DAC is in some way better, however.
I'll wager TB has a few tons of these DACs sitting on their loading dock that were earmarked for Audiotrons that no one wanted to buy. Since the digital I/O supports 24/96 both ways perhaps their marketing VP figured it was a good way to cut costs.
 
Hmm somewhat disappointing. The Catalina supports 24/96 on the optical out, but only 16/48 on the analog outputs. Meh, you'd hope that TB, at the very least, wouldn't try to take advantage of people with marketing, alas it's not to be. No detailed specs are available either.
 
That sucks. the only thing that made the last TBSC even considerable to many was that it had hardware audio support.

Even though it was only EAX 1 and 2 and didn't perform quite as well as the Live/Audigy it was still something

I tried my onboard audio not long ago when I was having a problem out of my Audigy card. and Framerate went from the 70's to the 10's on the realtek AC6650 crap. I couldn't imagine going to something without hardware audio support no matter how good the quality is when listening to music and movies in windows.

Wit hthat said. I'm very happy with my Fortissimo III that I got (it was a close toss up between it and the TBSC, but I found the Fortissimo cheaper). doen't hurt framerates noticeably. and none of the problems with creative.
 
With a computer like yours, a 60 fps drop is either a gross exaggeration or a serious bug, because a drop like that does not happen on a computer like yours.
 
Originally posted by xonik
With a computer like yours, a 60 fps drop is either a gross exaggeration or a serious bug, because a drop like that does not happen on a computer like yours.
Click to expand...
I didn't think it should. When I was tired of my audigy being crackly and going crazy occasionally with high pitch painful noises and such I swiched to onboard audio. the realtek I mentioend before.

Played for awhile didn't notice much at first because I was playing other games. Then played a UT2k3 match with friedns and was getting serious jumpyness. pulled up stat fps and was dipping to 13 and teens alot and only able to hold 20 at some times.

On audigy I hold 70 fairly consistantly. occasionally drop to 50's in intense areas. maybe it was a bug dunno. Tried both ABIT drivers and the latest Realtek both performed simliarly.

went back and used botmatch script to normalize comparison. think it was the antalus script

Fortissimo III with the crystal chipset (same as TBSC) has hardware acceleration support and has simlar performance to audigy. im staying up in the 60's-70 range and no crackling and popping. bummer I no longer have EAX3/4 for games coming out in future but its worth it.

I am really digging the separate headphone port too. I had one on my speakers. but my headset with built iin mic. could not plug mic iup at top into speakers and work.....so now plug headphonse and mic into back of pc and easily from systray swich between 2 speaker mode and headphone mode :)...


edit: sorry gone a little off topic....was oriringally just trying to display my beleif that they may be shooting themselves in the foot by not using a controller that has hardware acceleration
 
I just saw a post on another forum and I think I know why the TB Catalina doesn't have 24 bit DACs:

The Envy24HT-S and 24PT do not support analog input and output resolutions and sampling rates above 20 bit 48 KHz. They do however support digital input and output of 24 bit 192 kHz and 24 bit 96KHz respectively.

Therefore, a 24 bit DAC on any sound card that uses the HT-S or PT is unecessary because the chips themselves do not support analog output at such a high resolution, only digital.

The REVO and some of the Terratec cards use the 24HT not the HT-S and so can support 24 bit resolutions.
 
They don't. Only Soundstorm is capable of outputting any signal in dolby digital. Also, Soundstorm has far more DSP power than anything made by VIA, almost as much as an Audigy 2 (measureably more than an Audigy 1).
 
Originally posted by IdiotInCharge
They don't. Only Soundstorm is capable of outputting any signal in dolby digital. Also, Soundstorm has far more DSP power than anything made by VIA, almost as much as an Audigy 2 (measureably more than an Audigy 1).
Click to expand...

that sucks.. i had a santa cruz and loved its quality. i just wish it had more dsp features.. as these. which they dont. ohwell.
 
Well, Dolby != good. It just means surround sound has been encoded digitally- it still had to be generated in 5.1 for the encoder. All Soundstorm gives you (as it gives the Xbox) is a digital signal for a reviever to use- it makes life easier, and works great for the Xbox. It is not, however, good for Hi Fi music listening. Dolby does not match the quality that would be outputted by a Revo in digital, and most recievers do not match the quality the Revo or ZS output in analog.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
I just saw a post on another forum and I think I know why the TB Catalina doesn't have 24 bit DACs:

The Envy24HT-S and 24PT do not support analog input and output resolutions and sampling rates above 20 bit 48 KHz. They do however support digital input and output of 24 bit 192 kHz and 24 bit 96KHz respectively.

Therefore, a 24 bit DAC on any sound card that uses the HT-S or PT is unecessary because the chips themselves do not support analog output at such a high resolution, only digital.

The REVO and some of the Terratec cards use the 24HT not the HT-S and so can support 24 bit resolutions.
Click to expand...

Audiotrak (or at least I think it was them) made a card based around the Envy24HT-S DSP that supported 24/96 analog output on all channels (MK44 II?). So it really all depends on what DACs are used and I think since everyone uses the reference design that calls for an AC97 codec, it limits the cards.
 
Audiotrak (or at least I think it was them) made a card based around the Envy24HT-S DSP that supported 24/96 analog output on all channels (MK44 II?). So it really all depends on what DACs are used and I think since everyone uses the reference design that calls for an AC97 codec, it limits the cards.
Click to expand...

Given the confusion among even the manufacturers about which variety of Envy24 chip they're using, I'd be interested to see some documentation that the Maya III is using the HT-S and not the HT or the GT.

Here is the Maya MKII and it claims 4 24/96 I/O's but it does not specify which Envy24 chip is in use.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
Given the confusion among even the manufacturers about which variety of Envy24 chip they're using, I'd be interested to see some documentation that the Maya III is using the HT-S and not the HT or the GT.

Here is the Maya MKII and it claims 4 24/96 I/O's but it does not specify which Envy24 chip is in use.
Click to expand...

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/audiotrakmaya44mkii/

Reviewski.

Edit: BTW I just noticed that the Envy24HT-S only supports third party "stereo" DACs through it's IS2 links (which support up to 24/96 output). Through the AC97 links it seems to require a VIA AC97 codec and since VIA's best AC97 codec only supports up to 20/48 output, there lies the limitation :(. Maybe when Intel starts to push the whole high definition audio stuff, we'll see them release a VT1618 or something with support for up to 24/96 or higher output.
 
Originally posted by IdiotInCharge
Well, Dolby != good. It just means surround sound has been encoded digitally- it still had to be generated in 5.1 for the encoder. All Soundstorm gives you (as it gives the Xbox) is a digital signal for a reviever to use- it makes life easier, and works great for the Xbox. It is not, however, good for Hi Fi music listening. Dolby does not match the quality that would be outputted by a Revo in digital, and most recievers do not match the quality the Revo or ZS output in analog.
Click to expand...

i primarily game and listen to mp3s... only need it to sound good, but not hifi.
 
Reviewski.
Edit: BTW I just noticed that the Envy24HT-S only supports third party "stereo" DACs through it's IS2 links (which support up to 24/96 output). Through the AC97 links it seems to require a VIA AC97 codec and since VIA's best AC97 codec only supports up to 20/48 output, there lies the limitation .
Click to expand...
Cool! Digit-life knows their stuff, so it is totally possible you just can't use a 24 bit CODEC like on the HT and other DSPs, you have to use three or four stereo DACs if you want 24 bit resolution on all outputs.
Thats assuming the CODEC interface is VIA proprietary, which would make no end of sense. Frigging VIA.
Good find, it all makes sense now.

Wait, damnit! It doesn't make sense! Why did TB use a low resolution CODEC and decide to charge this much money?
Why didn't they use the 24HT and better converters?
Even their excellent driver authors cannot help them now. :mad:
 
Well, I don't think that the consumer is ready for 24-bit audio, personally. Does that make it right that the Catalina isn't using them? Considering that some of the competition has it, no, that doesn't make it right.
 
Since there are two other threads started on this thought I'd bump this one back up
 
I was at fry's today and saw the card, I was shocked, after all these years :p

I'm going to need some benefits over my Santa Cruz for me to upgrade though. I'd have probably gotten an audigy by now if I knew for sure the audio quality was better than my Santa Cruz and the drivers didn't suck (I’m running a dual CPU box so good drivers are especially important)
 
So which is better? The Santa Cruz, or the Riviera? Looking for a new sound card and these two fits the budget perfectly.

Alex
 
Have used an Audigy and an Audigy 2 ZS here. Drivers are great- now- and I wouldn't touch a TBSC, thing's just way too old (basic argument, it's rather outdated). And I can't see where the new series significantly improves on the original... It appears to be a bit better, but man, it's disappointing to see TB not go for gold- most top end Envy solutions can barely keep up with Creative on games, and these aren't even top end :/ (this is my opinion)
 
The TBSC is 3 years older than A2 and wasn't meant to be competitive with it. In fact, it does decent considering the age gap. Try comparing a Palomino to an A64 :p and see how the old stuff there holds up
 
Memory, that was my point. I just find it hilarious that people hold onto it as a gaming card- just like people still come on and recommend the Fortissimos.

--there is an opposite perspective, which I will put here to prove my understanding; obviously what works great works great, and both the TBSC and FIII work great for many applications out there. Neither come close to what the Audigy can do, let alone the ZS- but that has already been given.
 
Originally posted by IdiotInCharge
Memory, that was my point. I just find it hilarious that people hold onto it as a gaming card- just like people still come on and recommend the Fortissimos.

--there is an opposite perspective, which I will put here to prove my understanding; obviously what works great works great, and both the TBSC and FIII work great for many applications out there. Neither come close to what the Audigy can do, let alone the ZS- but that has already been given.
Click to expand...
had an audigy, was great. except once I activated my highpoint raid controller, it went haywire.

can't do any hdd accessing while playing audio, pops, crackles in games. tried windows drivers, kx drivers, audigy 2 drivers, eax4 drivers, and a live card, updated mobo and raid controller bios and drivers. Creative hardware is just plain and simple garbage. tossed that thing in my dad's computer and went through great efforts to findng a cheap tbsc or FIII. found an FIII on ebay for 30. happy+++ I love the quick switching between headphones and speakers from their conrol panel.

the way I see it is creative cards are more for certain situations, where cirrus logic will work for anyone. good performance, decent feature set. and no compatibility problems, no crackling, has clear audio. cirrus logic > creative
 
We all know Creative's hardware and drivers have been troublesome- but hey, they are working now. Btw, I had the first version of the IT7- problems to no end.
 
If I get some extra money I'll pick one of those Catalinas up and see how it compares to my Revo. I'm surprised there are no reviews out for either of these yet.
 
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