New System - Need help

[Sameer]

Hello all...

First off, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to read to this.

I am building a new system and plan to buy all my parts and what not on the 16th of April. Since I am posting here for help, it is safe to assume that I am a complete noob. I've only built 3 systems in the past and I really want this one to be good. Is April 16th a good date? I don't mind waiting another 2 weeks or so if there someone believes that the prices will drop due to some new release.

I've got a budget of about $3,000.00 and I want a gaming rig that will run any game I choose to play flawlessly at high fps rates. I also want a system I can brag about . I do plan to over clock this system to the absolute best of my abilities (with your help).

Just remember, I'm open to ideas and nothing is set in stone yet. So far, based on the reviews I've read, I have decided to choose the following:

CPU:
INTEL Conroe E6600 2.4GHz FSB1066MHz 4MB LGA775 Dual-Core (E6600)
I've seen people refer to specific models and stepping and stuff like that... What should I look for?

MB:
Debating between 3 of them: P5B-E, P5N32-E SLI Plus, Striker Extreme
Which one is the best for gaming/Over clocking?

Video Card:
8800GTX - BFG/XFX/ASUS/EVGA - Whichever is the cheapest - Is that a good way to decide?

Sound Card:
On-board should be fine for my Logitec Z-5500 which I plan to use still.

HDD:
Two WD Raptor 150s in Raid 0.

Memory:
There is SOOO much to choose from, I don't know which is best for over clocking with my setup. I am looking for 2GB or ram though, I figure that will be best and I can always upgrade in the future when prices drop a bit more.

PSU:
OCZ GameXStream Power Supply (SLI Ready) 700W (OCZ700GXSSLI)
Is this a good choice? Also, I want my PC to look clean.

Case:
Thermaltake ARMOR black Aluminum full tower ATX case w side window
(Is this a good choice or are there better/cheaper alternatives?)

Cooling:
I've never used liquid cooling, so I have no idea what to look for here either... Yes, I'm a NOOB!

KB/Mouse:
I'll use my current

CD/DVD Drive:
I'll decide on my own.

Monitor:
NEED MAJOR HELP HERE!!! I want at least 21" LCD and I have no idea what kind of monitor would be best. I prefer fast response rates and excellent quality.

Also, I plan on buying from:
Infonec
Canada Computers
PC Canada
Any I am missing?

Any help would be greatly appreciated and questions are welcomed...

Thanks in advance,
Sameer

P.S - Once I have the rig built, I will be asking for help with OCing... Then I will post pics

 

[Lucio]

There's not a lot to tell you, reading around is usually the best way and what works out to be best for you, might not be ideal for someone else.

However, I'd suggest holding off for a week or two longer, towards the end of the month the latest releases of the Core2 Duo range are expected, so hopefully there should be some price drops, not to mention the E6420 will be coming out which may be better value for money anyway.

 

[Sameer]

Thanks for the reply...

Aren't there chips (models with certain stepping) that are better for overclocking? I understand that everyone may not have the same preference, but there must be certain models/brands that work better or best together. I mean, I have no idea what-so-ever about the RAM or Monitor.

 

[Markyip1]

Looks like you have a solid base to work from, with good choices in components.

Intel is refreshing its lower-mainstream range E6300 and E6400 processors in mid April. The rest of the main-stream line will be refreshed in August, with some significant price drops in tow. However, in your time frame, the E6600 should still be the best bang-for-buck processor in your budget. It's a fantastic chip.

For $3000, I would consider doing SLI 8800 GTXes and a 24 inch monitor (either the Dell or HP... both excellent, comparable choices.) That may put you over budget by a few hundred, but not by much. 8800s may drop in price by the end of the month due to the release of the $999 8800 Ultra GPU (scheduled for release in the beginning of May.) No one is sure yet of what it is, but for $999 most are expecting it to be a 7950GX2 equivalent.

As for which video card vendor: They're really all the same, so go with the cheapest if you can. Having said that, note that EVGA is popular for its excellent warranty coverage and step up program (where you can trade-in your GPU if a newer one comes out in three months and pay only the difference in cost.)

For RAM, look at mainstream / high-end vendors (Cruxial, Kingston, etc.) You'll want 2 x 1 Gig PC-6400 (800 Mhz) DDR2 Dimms (for a total of 2 Gigs.) No need to buy overclocked RAM since you're getting an E6600. Overclocked RAM (PC-8000 and above) is really only useful for getting cheaper processors to higher speeds.

Another decision to make is whether you want to overclock your processor. Overclocking on air is quite easy, and you can get great results on an E6600. I have a 1.2Ghz stable overclock on my system (see sig,) but that's also on the high-end. Expect around 800-900Mhz as an average overclock on a good air-cooled system. Zalman makes popular and respected coolers. For high end, consider a Tuniq Tower or a Thermalright Ultra 120.

Good luck with your build.

Mark.

 

[Sameer]

Thanks so much Mark...

Just 3 more questions...

What mobo would YOU say is the best with that setup?

Wouldn't the PC8000 RAM help me get even higher OCing results?

Lastly, is my power supply unit good enough for all that?

 

[Markyip1]

No problem :0

What mobo would YOU say is the best with that setup?

I would go with a nForce 680i motherboard. It's the best of the best at the moment, and unlike 975 moBos, it'll do SLI. A 680i will also give you the best chance of being able to upgrade to a Penryn processor early next year (although they're no guarantees.) Of the 680i motherboards, look at the eVga A1 model and the Asus Striker. You can't go wrong with either.

Wouldn't the PC8000 RAM help me get even higher OCing results?

In my opinion, anything above PC-6400 is a waste. On speed alone, with everything else being equal, faster RAM equates to only a 2-3% improvement in performance. Why spend extra $$$ on 2%?

Now some suggest that for best overclocking results, one should run RAM at 1:1 timings with the processor. If you were to take that advice, buying PC-6400 RAM rated for 800Mhz would allow for a 3.6Ghz overclcok on an E6600. However, whether or not this advice is true is debatable. It may very well be that matched 1:1 timings provide no performance benefit. Of course, this argument is somewhat moot if you get an E6600, since a 3.6Ghz overclock is about as best as you can get on air. In that case, 800Mhz PC-6400 RAM is fine.

Overall, if you can get 4 Gigs of PC-6400 RAM or 2 Gigs of PC-8000/1000 RAM for similar prices, go with the 4 Gigs of PC-6400 RAM. No contest.

Lastly, is my power supply unit good enough for all that?

I don't have any experience with that PSU, and my knowledge of PSUs in general is somewhat limited, although I can say that 700 watts should be more than enough if you don't plan on going SLI.

If you do want that second 8800Gtx, I recommend visiting nVidia's website to see what PSUs are rated for such a setup. I have a Silverstone Zeus 850 watt supply which has been excellent. Since buying my rig, Silverstone has released an Olympia 1000 watt supply which may also be a good option.

Mark.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Thanks so much Mark...

Just 3 more questions...

What mobo would YOU say is the best with that setup?

Wouldn't the PC8000 RAM help me get even higher OCing results?

Lastly, is my power supply unit good enough for all that?

'Mind if i chip in?

With a Quad Core processor, like Intel's E6600 (or either one, for that matter), it is very unlikely that your overclock will be bottlenecked by your memory frequency.

This is because you'd find it difficult to increase the processor's FSB such that your memory frequency is holding you back. With an E6600 it is unlikely that you'd be able to increase the FSB frequency over 400Mhz, in which case PC2-6400 RAM (which has a rated frequency of 400Mhz) will get you there just fine. Also, if you do happen to be able to push the CPU's FSB frequency to over 400Mhz, you will also be able to overclock your RAM a fair bit, too, so it won't be the limiting factor in this setup.

RAM which can run at PC2-8000 (500Mhz) speeds can come in useful, however, if you want to reduce the CPU's multiplier in order to increase the FSB frequency, while maintaining the same overclock.

Say your desired overclock with an E6600 is 3.6Ghz and you had both PC2-6400 and PC2-8000 RAM to chose from.

With PC2-6400 your overclock could be as follows:
400Mhz x 9 = 3.6Ghz

With PC2-8000 your overclock could be as follows:
514Mhz x 6 = 3.2Ghz (overclocking the memory)

Bearing in mind: these are hypothetical overclocking results not considering any of the other limiting factors.

Another note; if you chose an nForce chipset (like the 680i) for your motherboard, you can chose from a much wider range memory dividers/ratios allowing you to run you memory at its rated speed whilst keeping CPU frequency of 3.6Ghz. However, i still believe that a 1:1 ratio is best, so your CPU's FSB frequency is equivilent to that of the memory so there is no "waiting".

The advantage of using a higher FSB frequency, but using a lower multiplier, to get the same final CPU speed is that it should yield a little more performance. However, this comes at a cost: the actual price of the memory which is rated to run at higher frequencies (PC2-8000) and more stress on your memory controller; also, you'd likely have to increase the voltage for your motherboard's NB (North Bridge) to cope with the higher memory and CPU FSB frequencies.

I hope this has been of some help to you. Mark, if you notice any mistakes in what i've written please point them out because i'm sure i've made a few mistakes.

Edit: More to add. That PSU you mentioned in your original post- i'd stay away from it. I think it has quite high ripple, which is a component killer in the long-run. I'd go with a similar PSU to what Mark is using. Silverstone's Zues range are build by Etasis, who manufacture server-quality PSUs, so it'll be fine for powering your rig and should easily handle SLi (if you decide to go that route in the future). Other options include: Corsair HX620 (i believe that's the model name, although it doesn't look quite right); Etasis 750w/850w units; Thermaltake Toughpower 850w (i think this is a fairly good PSU); PC Power and Cooling also make some excellent power supplies; and, as far as i am aware, CoolerMaster have a RealPower range.

I have little knowledge in this area so you might be better off seeking the help from some of the specialists here. Take a look at Jonny Guru's website; it has some good reviews of PSUs that are worth looking into.

 

[Markyip1]

Hi again,

Mansize has it correct in terms of multipliers and FSB speed In case you don't have much Intel Core 2 Duo overclocking experience, here's an overview of how it generally works:

The overall processor speed is determined by the speed of the front-side-bus times a set multiplier. In a BIOS that allows overclocking, both the FSB and the multiplier can be changed. This is how people overclock their processors from their stock rated speed. However, it is important to note that the range of values you can set the multiplier to is limited in all Core 2 models except for the Extreme chips (this, btw, is what makes Extreme chips extreme... their multiplier is unlocked.) Another thing to note is that non-Extreme Core 2 chips (like the E6600) are shipped with their maximum value already set for the multiplier. In an E6600, this value is x9, and through the BIOS you can reduce it to as low as x6 if you want.

The stock FSB on an E6600 is 266Mhz, so 266Mhz * 9 equals about 2.4Ghz (hence the
rated stock speed.) If you were to get an X6800 Extreme chip, I believe the default multiplier is 12. However, because it's extreme, you can bring it as high as 60. In fact, the only difference between the E6600, the E6700, and the X6800 is the default multiplier (and the fact that you can bring it higher on an X6800.) Otherwise it's the same chip!

Now, why would you want to lower the multiplier? If you bought RAM that is rated for a certain speed, you generally want to run it at that speed. Otherwise $$ and performance is going to waste. However, you need a great air cooler to get an E6600 on x9 to a 400Mhz FSB for 3.6Ghz (Note that a 400Mhz FSB for 800Mhz RAM as DDR2 RAM speed is FSB speed x2.) Running an E6600 at x9 on anything faster than 400Mhz (which you'd need to do for > PC-6400 RAM) would most certaily require you to reduce the multiplier.

Given all this, my recommendation is to get PC-6400 RAM. DDR 800 Mhz is the sweat spot in performance / price these days, and it's also the most widely available DDR2 speed. Even if you can't get an E6600 to 3.6Ghz on air, reducing the multiplier so that it runs at 3.2Ghz is still a great overclock. If you purchased a cheaper chip, which would have a smaller max multiplier, then getting faster RAM may be worth it. For an E6600, it's not.

Mark.

 

[Sameer]

Thank you sooo much. This is everything I was looking for <3