New SFF System - Getting back into PC gaming

[Ididar]

Just to preface, I haven't put together or modified a system in about 10 years so I'm heavily out of touch with current hardware. I looked at many options for pre-built and never felt like I was getting a good deal out of it for the form factor I wanted. So, here I am.


Purpose: Primarily gaming while hooked up to a TV (so 1080p max output). All my light browsing, email, and so forth are done on tablet or phone. Since it'll have to fit in alongside other relatively small components I need to avoid tall cases. Looking for shorter and wider if possible similar to a Silverstone Milo or Apex DM series from my limited knowledge of cases. Just use something like those as a rough idea of what I have in my head for size/shape.

Budget: Probably around the $1000 mark for parts. A little over that is fine if necessary but try to keep the target on that. I'll be ordering everything online from Canada since I have no big B&M stores with cheap hardware nearby. If you're making suggestions don't worry about shipping and taxes as I'll consider that an over-and-above cost on the $1000 budget to make it simpler for everyone.

Parts Required: Case, motherboard, RAM, CPU, video card, hard drive(s), optical drive, power supply, cables, fans, sound card, Wifi ... yes, everything. I've been thinking about an SSD for the OS but I'm not sure if I could install many games on an SSD when all is said and done. I'm just getting back into PC gaming after a long hiatus. All my data is sitting on an NAS so I don't have to worry about storing video or photos on this PC. SSD + another regular drive would be acceptable if I need the space but I'm not sure if the form factor will allow it. I do want nice fast boot times, though, which is my main driver for the SSD. It'll only be turned on when I want to do some gaming. Don't need any particular features on the motherboard since I won't be overclocking, won't be doing SLI, etc. Yes, I need the optical drive for occasional ripping of music CD's to my NAS. Yes, I still buy CD's. I'm archaic, I know.

Other Items: Basically I'm looking for plug and play as close as possible. I won't be modifying cases. Noise should be reasonable but since it won't be turned on when I'm not playing games this isn't as big a deal as if it was always on. I still don't want it loud, though, as I normally don't crank the volume on anything. The computer will get setup in its location and stay there. I'll be using a new version of Win8Pro and plan to build it in the next few months. This won't be upgraded for at least a year or two and replaced no sooner than 4-5 years from now so keep that in mind.


Thanks for any input.


Edits to answer questions:

I expect to play mostly RPG type games but occasional shooters as well. Going off what I have played in the last couple years on the Xbox, I would say future Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc type games would be played on the PC along with some strategic shooters. I don't do a lot of full online FPS type gaming, mostly playing through single player campaigns. As for quality settings, obviously I'm going to be looking at something better than I'm getting on consoles right now. The thing that is pushing me to get back into PC gaming is the better visuals and customization available on the PC. Honestly, assume I'm going to want to push for the higher quality settings. I'll just be cranky if I get something that is only capable of working on medium settings and regret my decision.

 

[Zap]

Which games do you expect to play? How high image quality do you expect?

The Silverstone Milo ML03B is a great choice in a home theater, except it only takes low profile graphics cards. With a Radeon 7750 it can be quite capable as long as you are okay with more demanding games on medium settings. Otherwise you need to go with something larger such as a Silverstone Grandia GD04, GD05 or GD06.

Let us know about the games you expect to be playing and at what quality settings, choose a case and then we can continue with parts recommendations.

 

[Ididar]

Added my response to the original post as well for anyone reading later.

I expect to play mostly RPG type games but occasional shooters as well. Going off what I have played in the last couple years on the Xbox, I would say future Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc type games would be played on the PC along with some strategic shooters. I don't do a lot of full online FPS type gaming, mostly playing through single player campaigns. As for quality settings, obviously I'm going to be looking at something better than I'm getting on consoles right now. The thing that is pushing me to get back into PC gaming is the better visuals and customization available on the PC. Honestly, assume I'm going to want to push for the higher quality settings. I'll just be cranky if I get something that is only capable of working on medium settings and regret my decision.

 

[Zap]

Based on what you just wrote, you will be best served with a higher end graphics card than what low profile can provide. I would suggest a Silverstone Grandia mATX case. They make three, GD04/GD05/GD06 with slight differences but otherwise are pretty much the same.GD04 and GD05 are the cheaper ones, around $100 shipped. They can hold normal ATX PSUs and can handle at least mid-range or higher cards.

I'm going to use USD pricing. Adjust accordingly. These are rough prices.

GD04/GD05 case $100
mATX H77 chipset motherboard $75
USB WiFi adapter with cable and external antenna $20
DVD writer $20
decent quality short PSU (Antec Neo Eco, lower end Seasonic, etc.) with two PCIe power plugs $60
8GB DDR3 1.5v (or lower) 1333MHz (or higher but super speed not needed) $40
sound card $NONE (HDMI uses sound built into GPU)
fans, CPU cooler, cabling $NONE (just use what case/mobo/CPU comes with)
128GB SSD $90
1TB 7200RPM HDD $80
(alternately 240-256GB SSD $200 and only have games you play often installed)
Core i5-3XXX $190-230
GeForce GTX 660 Ti $300 (less if on hot deal/rebate)
(alternately Radeon 7870, or 7950 if fits in case/budget)

That should run you just around $1000. It will be fairly capable at 1080P resolutions, be reasonably quiet (not "silent" but quiet), be fast for just about anything. Case choice will let it blend into entertainment centers, being around the same size/shape as a typical AV receiver.

Oh yeah, use sleep mode for instant on.

Only things not added into budget are peripherals (keyboard/mouse) and operating system (Win8 would probably be good for the big screen).

 

[Ididar]

Have a recommendation on the motherboard? I'm looking at my options and that's the only one I'm really stuck on.

 

[Zap]

Whatever is available to you and cheap and H77 chipset. Here is my reasoning.

7-series is latest generation chipset, giving you all the newest features such as USB 3.0 integrated into the Intel chipset and not merely a 3rd party chip. Also gives you out-of-the-box Ivy Bridge support (latest CPUs), native SATA 6GB/s ports (important for SSDs) and some other stuff you may or may not need.

There is a similar chipset called Z77 which costs more. The difference is Z77 allows you to overclock if you get a K series CPU. You didn't mention overclocking, so I didn't recommend it.

Other onboard stuff such as sound and graphics is not needed because I am assuming you will be using HDMI from your graphics card to the HDTV, which will carry sound as well.

WiFi is somewhat common on mini ITX motherboards, but not very common on ATX and micro ATX. It is cheap enough and is a commodity so you can easily source one separately if you actually need one. This adapter is my go-to for something cheap that works reasonably well. It regularly (every month or two) goes on sale for $15 USD, comes with an extension cable with a stand (for positioning which is super important), comes with a high gain antenna that is interchangeable and is 1T2R. That means one transmit, two receive antennas. It receives in 300Mbps but only sends at 150Mbps (2.4GHz band only). This means it can be cheaper and works well for normal end user networking tasks, but does not work well for a server that sends data out all the time. Of course if you were using WiFi for a server, you deserve all the lousy performance you get. Strange that Newegg.ca shows it as discontinued, but the USA site just shows out of stock. Look for something similar.

Regarding which motherboard to get, unless you can pinpoint a feature you are positive you absolutely need, just get a cheap one with that chipset. More expensive boards basically just add features (or name brand cachet). That's one reason Z77 costs more. Overclocking is a feature.

If I were to recommend any brand, I'd say take a look at lower end ASRock, MSI and Gigabyte. Those brands are known for being top notch in quality while being reasonably priced. I personally don't have a problem with using even "cheaper" brands such as Biostar or ECS, but you'll be shunned by all the cool kids around here.

There is an alternative to the H77 chipset and that is the B75 chipset. Boards are cheaper but are limited to a single SATA 6GB/s port (two on H77) and no SSD caching. If you won't ever use SSD caching and won't ever go more than one SSD, then it can be a cheaper alternative. Note that some of the cheapest ones only have two RAM slots, limiting upgrades.

 

[Ididar]

Thanks for all the help. Working on finding my best prices. Thanks.

 

[Ididar]

Here's my current choices, subject to some revision:

- Core i5 3570K
- Gigabyte H77M-D3H mATX
- Corsair XMS 2x4GB DDR3-1333
- Gigabyte GTX 660 Ti 2GB
- Silverstone Grandia GD04B
- Seasonic S121I 520W
- Corsair Neutron 128GB SSD
- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB
- ASUS BC-12B1ST Blu-Ray/DVD

 

[Zap]

You can't overclock with H77 chipset motherboard, so you don't have to get a K-series CPU. For instance $10 more gets you this CPU which is pretty much a Core i7. Or save a few bucks and get a cheaper Core i5.

See if you can get Samsung RAM. It runs around the same price, and is excellent quality.

Rest of the system seems really solid. Not exact choices I'd make, but very close. Go for it!

 

[Ididar]

Good point. Missed that. Saved $20 by going with the straight 3570.

Any other spots where I can save a few dollars by going with a different brand or a better part for the same money?

 

[Ididar]

Swapped the SSD as well. Saved another $20.

- Core i5 3570
- Gigabyte H77M-D3H mATX
- Corsair XMS 2x4GB DDR3-1333
- Gigabyte GTX 660 Ti 2GB
- Silverstone Grandia GD04B
- Seasonic S121I 520W
- Sandisk SDSSDP-128G-G25 128GB SSD
- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB
- ASUS BC-12B1ST Blu-Ray/DVD

 

[Zap]

Don't get caught up on the exact brand/model of the parts. For instance SSD pricing can be very volatile. Have a short list of several drives which you would consider, and when you're ready to buy, buy the cheapest one. Same thing with optical drives and hard drives, and even PSUs. Graphics cards are a bit different since some can have high factory overclocks, or different PCBs or different coolers (blowers for SFF cases, 2-3 axial fans for quiet) but you may still be able to have a few choices to pick from. Also, sometimes the 3570K CPU goes on sale, so keep an eye on that.

Basically I'm trying to tell you that in order to save money, don't "marry" yourself to a particular brand/model unless there are no alternatives. For instance, your case choice has only one alternative that I know of, the similar GD05. There is no other case around $100 or less that looks like an AV receiver, has a short depth, decent ventilation and can take normal sized PSUs and GPUs. Most similar cases are too deep or too expensive (GD06, Lian Li PC-C50).

Is this $45 stuff your RAM choice? Do one of two things. Either pay $2 more for this Samsung RAM (often on sale too, Newegg OOS or I would have linked) since it is much better, or save money with this $35 RAM that happens to be faster at a lower voltage. Again, don't get "married" to any of this stuff. The $35b stuff is on sale. Just choose what is advantageous to you AT THE TIME you purchase.

Your wallet will thank you, and unless you sticker up the front of your case to look like a riced out Civic, nobody will know what parts you have inside.

 

[Ididar]

Nope, that makes sense. I've got everything priced out right now and sometime over the next month or two is when I'll pull the trigger (after I've purchase the new couch and chairs). When I go to pull the trigger is when I'll check all the pricing again and tweak the configuration to get the best value for money. The best advice you've given me is to know which items you can just find the cheapest of and which you should be wary of. Big help.

 

[Ididar]

Just to let you know, I ordered everything today. Should get it all early next week.

Went with a Samsung 840 Series 250GB SD drive based on price and no spinning disk ultimately. If I run into space issues I'll just pick up a 1TB later on.