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New PC Build - a spreadsheet crunching machine

M

MountainX

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
254
I need to add one additional computer to my fleet. I usually build rather than buy because I tend to have special requirements (such as silence or ECC RAM, etc.). However, for this computer I don't have any special requirements. (Please feel free to suggest that I just buy an off-the-shelf PC if that is the better choice this time.)

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

Working on large spreadsheets that span two monitors, web browsing and general office usage. I do not want the computer to be slow when working on large spreadsheets.


2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

Under $1000 if possible.


3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

USA


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

CPU, Ram, Motherboard, SSD and/or HDD, PSU, Video Card, Case, fans, memory card reader, DVD drive, internal cables. Will also need a suitable backup UPS. (I might also need a set of small speakers.)


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Keyboard, mouse, two monitors, external cables.


6) Will you be overclocking?

No, definitely not.


7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

I have two 23" HP monitors that run natively at 1920 x 1200.


8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Immediately. I hope to build it over the Christmas break.


9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

Several USB 3.0 ports, Gigabit ethernet. In fact I prefer two Gigabit Ethernet ports. (I do not need RAID, Firewire, or anything else special that I can think of.)


10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I will be installing Linux. Linux compatibility isn't usually a problem but it is worth considering.

11) Comments:
I prefer at least 8GB of RAM. And I want a lot of storage space (large HDD). I'm not sure of the largest HDD supported under Linux at this time, but if it fits the budget I'll go for the largest supported HDD.
 
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Calc only uses a single core, so you want the fastest clock speed you can buy:

https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/5371/is-lo-calc-capable-for-smp/

But Excel uses multiple cores if you don't have dependent calculation chains:

http://www.passmark.com/forum/showthread.php?3623-What-is-best-processor-for-complex-excel-workbook

You might want to consider paying the MS tax if Calc performance is not to your liking, and your spreadsheets tend to have lots of independent calculations.

As for the system, you can build a Haswell i7 system for pretty cheap now due to markdowns, while Skylake is hard to find. You might also find that the older hardware on Haswell motherboard has better Linux support. The i7 4790k is default clocked at 4.0 GHz, and turbos to 4.4, faster than any other processor.

PC Hound Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K ($341.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H97M-G43 ($92.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Enhanced 16GB (2 x 8GB) Blackline ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 100-B1-0500-KR ($40.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: SAMSUNG 500GB 850 EVO MZ-75E500B/AM ($147.99 @ Amazon)
Storage #2: WD 2TB Red WD20EFRX ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design FD-CA-DEF-S-BK ($78.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 ($20.54 @ Amazon)
Total: $893.44
Price may include shipping, rebates, promotions, and tax
Generated by PC Hound


The motherboard has all four video outputs, so I imagine that your monitors should work. If they are older, HDMI to DVI passive adapters are a few bucks.

It should support triple display if you use one DisplayPort monitor.

EDIT: if dual lan is important, you can pay $50 more for this board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500

I also wouldn't go for storage larger than 2TB unless you really need it. The higher density drives have been having reliability issues from both Seagate and WD. If you must have larger, I'd buy WD.
 
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Thank you. That's all excellent advice!

Will this build fit in the Antec Solo II case?

Are Seasonic PSU's not as good as EVGA now?

Is there an Asus motherboard that will substitute for the ASRock Z97? Just curious. I do like the ASRock Z97 mb and I'll go for that upgrade.

Can you recommend a good card reader (that will read micro sdcards)?

After thinking about this, I think I'll buy a new monitor -- a 34" curved wide screen display. Any recommendations?

Thanks again for the super recommendations!
 
What office programs are you using under Linux?
 
I'd go with that defaultuser suggested then only I'd double up on the RAM w/ 32GB.

Additionally, EVGA PSUs are good for the price. Seasonics aren't that great with lower wattage requirements and price. Both have good PSUs in their lineup though.

As for a card that reads microSD cards I would just get a SD card reader and use the MicoSD to SD card reader. It's what I do with all my MicroSD cards.
 
Skillz said:
I'd go with that defaultuser suggested then only I'd double up on the RAM w/ 32GB.

As for a card that reads microSD cards I would just get a SD card reader and use the MicoSD to SD card reader. It's what I do with all my MicroSD cards.
Click to expand...

This is the card reader I used a couple years ago.

Rosewill RCR-AK-IM5002 USB2.0 75 in 1 internal Card Reader

I guess I'll use it again because it seems to work fine. I was looking for something even better, but maybe there isn't anything better.

I can budget for additional RAM.

I also read up on the WD 2TB Red WD20EFRX and I think I would be better off with a non-Red version (maybe Green?)...
 
What size Backup UPS would be best for this computer? Is it based on the PSU? (Actually, I guess it needs to handle the PSU and the monitor.)
 
There are so many different card readers on the market it's nearly impossible for someone to test each and every one of them for their reliability, speed, cost, etc... So if you have one that works. Keep it.

There is little to no difference between a RED and GREEN drive. Well, there are some differences, but they wont pertain to your use. What does matter is the fact that a RED drive has a 3 year warranty and a GREEN drive has a 2 year warranty. The GREEN drive of the same capacity is $10 less and IMHO I think it's worth the extra $10 for an additional 1 year of warranty.
 
Skillz said:
There are so many different card readers on the market it's nearly impossible for someone to test each and every one of them for their reliability, speed, cost, etc... So if you have one that works. Keep it.

There is little to no difference between a RED and GREEN drive. Well, there are some differences, but they wont pertain to your use. What does matter is the fact that a RED drive has a 3 year warranty and a GREEN drive has a 2 year warranty. The GREEN drive of the same capacity is $10 less and IMHO I think it's worth the extra $10 for an additional 1 year of warranty.
Click to expand...

Here is what I read on the WD site. Red drives are designed mostly for use in RAID. Therefore, they handle read errors differently and this can potentially lead to data loss in non-RAID systems. In short, they stop trying to read earlier and give the RAID a chance to recover the data.
 
MountainX said:
What size Backup UPS would be best for this computer? Is it based on the PSU? (Actually, I guess it needs to handle the PSU and the monitor.)
Click to expand...

Lots of factors can determine what you need in a UPS. Total output of a PSU on a computer is not one of them as you need to know what the total INPUT of that PSU is. IE: A 500W PSU might require 600W AC to produce 500W DC. So you'll need a UPS that's 600W capable.

Lots and lots of other factors. I recommend you skimming through this thread.
 
MountainX said:
Here is what I read on the WD site. Red drives are designed mostly for use in RAID. Therefore, they handle read errors differently and this can potentially lead to data loss in non-RAID systems. In short, they stop trying to read earlier and give the RAID a chance to recover the data.
Click to expand...

I use RED drives in NON-RAID setups 24/7 without any issue. That's all mostly just marketing hype from Western Digital.

Additionally, I also have 6 of them in a FledRAID Drive Pool that runs 24/7. Each drive acts as an individual drive though when storing data, but Windows sees all the drives under a single drive letter. They're all RED drives also and again, no issues.
 
Skillz said:
I use RED drives in NON-RAID setups 24/7 without any issue. That's all mostly just marketing hype from Western Digital.

Additionally, I also have 6 of them in a FledRAID Drive Pool that runs 24/7. Each drive acts as an individual drive though when storing data, but Windows sees all the drives under a single drive letter. They're all RED drives also and again, no issues.
Click to expand...


Right, they're just Green drives with better build quality, and tweaked firmware to handle RAID better. It doesn't mean you actually have to use them in RAID.

That EVGA is not Seasonic, but JohnnyGuru gave it a pretty high rating for an entry-level unit, and the EVGA support should be phenomenal.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=351

You can spend more, but since your system will not use more than 150w total you don't need much.
 
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I"m ordering parts now. What about this memory?

Mushkin Enhanced 32GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered 1066 (PC3 8500) Server Memory Model 992079
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GYZUK6E

Is it the best choice for the ASRock Z97 Extreme6?

Here are the other parts on my list. Any comments?

AFT XM-37U USB 3.0 3.5” Kiosk Card Reader - Newegg.com
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820176024

Amazon.com: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120mm PWM Fan (RR-212E-20PK-R2): Electronics
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-RR-212E-20PK-R2/dp/B005O65JXI

Amazon.com: Fractal Design Define S Gaming Case +FD-CA-DEF-S-BK: Computers & Accessories
http://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Design-Define-Gaming- FD-CA-DEF-S-BK/dp/B00Y29H436/

Amazon.com: WD Green 2TB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5-inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, IntelliPower, 64MB Cache WD20EZRX: Computers & Accessories
http://www.amazon.com/Green-2TB-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B008YAHW6I

Amazon.com: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-75E500B/AM): Computers & Accessories
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OBRE5UE

Amazon.com: EVGA 500 B1 80+ BRONZE, 500W Continuous Power, 3 Year Warranty Power Supply 100-B1-0500-KR: Computers & Accessories
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-BRONZE-Continuous-Warranty-100-B1-0500-KR/dp/B00DGHKK7M/

Amazon.com: ASRock Desktop Motherboard - Intel Z97 Express Chipset - Socket H3 LGA-1150 Z97 EXTREME6: Computers & Accessories
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K8PLZUQ

Amazon.com: Intel Core BX80646I74790K i7-4790K Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz): Health & Personal Care
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80646I74790K-i7-4790K-Processor-Cache/dp/B00KPRWAX8

Thanks!
 
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That RAM is no good... you can't use registered ECC with a 4790, or that board.

I pretty much use G Skill in my gaming rigs, and Crucial for just basic RAM (and servers). They have both always done well, but usually the Crucial is priced well and has always worked for me.
 
iroc409 said:
That RAM is no good... you can't use registered ECC with a 4790, or that board.

I pretty much use G Skill in my gaming rigs, and Crucial for just basic RAM (and servers). They have both always done well, but usually the Crucial is priced well and has always worked for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out. Can you recommend a similar mobo & CPU that are compatible with ECC RAM?

As a last resort I could go with non-ECC RAM, but I would prefer ECC RAM if we can come up with the right build parts.
 
Why am I always "that guy" who tries to point this out? For web browsing and general office usage, an 88 W processor in a full-size case seems like overkill.

Edit: How large are those spreadsheets?
 
MountainX said:
Thanks for pointing that out. Can you recommend a similar mobo & CPU that are compatible with ECC RAM?

As a last resort I could go with non-ECC RAM, but I would prefer ECC RAM if we can come up with the right build parts.
Click to expand...

You're mostly looking at server parts. Some desktop parts, like many AMD systems can make use of ECC. For Intel, you're looking at Xeons with server/workstation class motherboards, and a few of the i3's and Celerons. My Dell T110ii server has a G1820, some servers have the i3-4130 (I think).

What's your desire for ECC on a desktop?

ETA: I think you can get a really cheap Dell T20 barebones server right now, with a G3220 and 4GB RAM. I have one here at home, it uses ECC. You can upgrade it to a Xeon if you need quad core, but cheaper just to buy a Lenovo or T20 on a deal with a Xeon already installed.
 
the_servicer said:
Why am I always "that guy" who tries to point this out? For web browsing and general office usage, an 88 W processor in a full-size case seems like overkill.

Edit: How large are those spreadsheets?
Click to expand...

Well, that is what I was told on my last build and after using the computer for 3 years, I wish I had built something that was even more overkill. :)

The spreadsheets and even web browsing tax my current system, so I want something as powerful as the budget will allow.

Also, I prefer ECC RAM because it is more reliable in several ways.
 
With ECC you're going to be looking at boards from the likes of Tyan, Supermicro, etc. Fortunately, they're more likely to have multiple NICs on board, unfortunately they're going to cost quite a bit more (typically). The cheap Dell T20 and Lenovo TS140 servers with E3-1225's in them are great deals, but need upgrades to make them decent desktops. I think a while back Lenovo had a pretty hot deal on E5-based servers, may even have dual sockets.

I can't think of a situation I would recommend ECC for a desktop, but I won't stop anyone from building what they want. It's been a while since I've looked, but I almost built my server at home. I'd look at Supermicro X10 series (quick Google lead me to the X10SLM-F). They support the E3-12XX v3/v4, along with "4th Gen Core i3, Pentium, Celeron processors." My firewall is a Supermicro J1900 system and it's worked very well. You'll need to check the Intel Ark to see which of the non-Xeon processors support ECC as it can be hit or miss.

I support ECC in certain server roles, like ZFS or production stuff--but personally don't think you'll ever see the benefit from the extra expenditure in a desktop. The only reason my current Windows server has ECC is because I got it cheap. My ZFS file server has it, both current and the previous iteration, so I'm not anti-ECC or anything silly like that.
 
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