New Office Rig

M

Michigan PC

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
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alright, my dad has a p4 and 256mb ram system in his office. He wants me to build him a new system. At first He was looking at macs but I think that I should convince him otherwise. I want him to get more for the money. He doesnt game but I want him to be completely ready for vista. Please change or comment


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129019

http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144172

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814125028

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820146057

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813135201

http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115005

http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16832116056

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824116014

also, what power supply should I use
 
At first He was looking at macs but I think that I should convince him otherwise.
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Depends on what he does. If he's a graphic designer, likes to create multimedia content (movies, music) or is looking for something more, what's the right word... Creative, then a Mac is the way to go.

If your dad is a businessman, Office 2003, Internet Explorer, brings work home ect. he'll have an easier time using a PC rather then a Mac.

I don't suggest a Mac for any home office because, frankly, the world runs off of Microsoft/PC products and it's just easier to conform to this practice then try to do bootcamp or try to get Microsoft/Business apps to work with a Mac.

As for your items... Not bad....

The case you have is a funky looking case, to each his own. However, the power supply (220 Watt) that comes with it, is kind of weak. While that SHOULD be able to run a 'light' system, I would suggest getting a beefier power supply. Something like 350-450 would be able to handle everything, plus you don't have to worry about what will happen if you add a PCI card or another hard drive or two down the road.

It appears that you like the MicroATX form factor. I'll assume the reason is just for size. The issue with this is that you're kind of limiting yourself as far as future upgrades.

If you're concered about size have you thought about just getting a SFF case? This allows you to conserve space, but also remain open to different upgrade paths, and allows for a beefier power supply. Any reason why didn't like this option?

If you're looking for rock-hard stability, Intel motherboards are the way to go. While many other motherboard manufaturers are very proven, you can never go wrong an Intel motherboard and it is extrremely rare that Intel motherboards will have conflicts with drivers, or hardware.

Last but not least, lol, I'm not a personal fan of Viewsonic. I think Acers are the better monitors for relatively cheaper or equal value. But, this is really personal prefrence and I'm sure some people will swear by Viewsonic rather then Acer. So, this point is really left up to you.

So, all in all, not a bad computer. I just don't like being stuck in a computer with little to no upgrade potential, I'd rather have the ability to let the computer grow rather then being stuck with what I orginally bought. But, again, this is a personal prefrence. But, again, I'd take a look at SFF cases before you lock yourself into the MicroATX form factor.

And, Mouse, Keyboard, Printer? I assume you either forgot these or already have them.
 
will the power supply be able to keep the pc stable?
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I think anything over 300Watts would be enough for a 'basic'/'light' system.

Alot of OEM companies put in 350-450 Power Supplies in their units.

So, I personally think you should go no lower then 300 Watts, but higher is usually better as crapy power supplies may be rated at 300 but only deliver perhapes 250. So, it's usually better to get a higher rater power supply then you're going to need.

HERE is a nice wattage calculator. Plugging in some basic numbers gives you rougly 175 Watts for the computer. With load being 185 Watts. So, the first case with it's 220 Watt PSU SHOULD be enough even for your system, but... If you add another hard drive you go up to 195 watts though.

Basically, the orgional system is fine. Just realize, there's really no upgrade path because of the weak PSU. If you add just one more hard drive or some day you decided to upgrade to more RAM you're going to get up to 200-210 Wattage range. That's not to mention the fact that if it is a crappy power supply it might not be able to even deliver all the wattage it needs.
 
This is just personal opinion, but even with Vista coming up soon he doesn't need 2GB of RAM if he's just using this for business with no games or media creation. 1GB should be more than enough.

Also, if you're wanting him to have all of the fancy "Aero Glass" GUI features in Vista, it will require DirectX 10. Might want to think about getting a board with integrated graphics or pick up a cheaper video card until the DX10 compatible cards hit the market soon.
 
what vista features will he actually be missing? Also, he might do some video type stuff (might) so I was going to just get 2gb to be safe. Will it really not matter?

-the only systems I have built are top of the line gaming systems so sorry for the questions
 
This is just personal opinion, but even with Vista coming up soon he doesn't need 2GB of RAM if he's just using this for business with no games or media creation. 1GB should be more than enough.
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But what about Office 2007 AND Vista?! :p

That's really my point. If this computer is going to be made with Vista in mind, then he can plan for it, however we have NO idea how it's actually going to run. Is it going to be a resource hog? Are you going to need 1GB of RAM to run Areo Glass? He can plan for it, but he really wont know how it will run until he actuall loads Vista. Then, the computer will either be fine, or he'll need more RAM or a better GPU what have you. In that case, using the PSU/MicroATX form factor, he's just kind of limiting himself as to his upgrade options.

So... I guess.... I agree with you, but to the OP: Do you really plan on using Vista? Because, if you aren't, that computer as it is will run XP perfectly fine. However, if you ARE going to run Vista, you need to keep an open upgrade path because no one really has any idea how it will preform on certain systems quite yet.

what vista features will he actually be missing?
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Between the GUI not much honestly. It's alot of 'visual' stimulation he'll be missing out not, not functionality per-say.

As to XP vs Vista, alot.
 
I know what you mean, I am kinda biased to sff (check sig) because I have built many. Also it cant take up too much space. Also, how would that rig not be able to run vista? I understand that its not infront of us, but I can't imagine needing more

also Im thinkin about a bigger moniter like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824009085

He has to sit infront of it , it might aswell be nice and big
 
I understand that its not infront of us, but I can't imagine needing more
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Neither can I. But the process of the computering world is always forward.

EDIT: Lol. Nice ninja edit :p Now I'm gonna do it to you!

My dad works for a chemical company and spends probably a good 8 hours a day infront of a computer at work, and probably 6 hours infront of one at home. For the longest time he had been wanting a larger monitor so he doesn't have to squint and get up and close to the 17" CRT's he's been using, so last Christmass my family pitched in to buy him a Dell 20.1 LCD. He LOVES it.

I'd say that 20" Acer is right up your dad's ally. :D
 
alrighty thats what I was thinking. He just needs a office rig that can last him a little while.
 
Since you're running everything at stock, then no. If the RAM doesn't work as rated, just RMA it and get either a refund or a new set. RAM is RAM at stock speeds.
 
I just found a brand new unopened aspire x qpack in my closet. I do alot of builds and sometimes forget when I dont use stuff. I think I will just use that case then. Also is the psu tha comes with it just not worth using?
 
cool, easy way to save 70 bucks

I can also use the sound card and speakers from my dads old rig which doesnt hurt
 
Michigan PC said:
cool, easy way to save 70 bucks

I can also use the sound card and speakers from my dads old rig which doesnt hurt
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You may want to get a better quality PSU, especially since Aspire makes low quality PSUs. Check out the PSU forum for some suggestions. The onboard sound will be good enough, no need for a soundcard in an office rig.

Get a SATA HDD instead of a parrallel drive. Also, go for OEM instead of retail. The drive you linked was 160GB 8mb ATA100. This drive is much better (and cheaper):
$55 - WD Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200RPM SATA300

And if you want a 5yr warranty instead of 3yrs, go for the seagate:
$57 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3160811AS 160GB 7200RPM SATA300

This monitor is a little cheaper and just as good as the viewsonic. My coworker has it, and its really nice:
$185 - Acer AL1916WAbd Black 19" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD

ECS doesnt make good quality boards. I'd suggest this motherboard instead:
$76 - ASUS P5L-MX Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945G Micro ATX

If you want it upgradable to kentsfield and better onboard graphics (plus firewire, 8ch audio, 2x more sata ports), go for the 865G chipset boards:
$124 - GIGABYTE GA-965GM-S2 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel G965 Express Micro ATX
$128 - ASUS P5B-VM Socket T (LGA 775) Intel G965 Express Micro ATX

To summarize:
$185 - Acer AL1916WAbd Black 19" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD
$180 - Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz
$190 - Patriot Signature Series 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-667 PSD22G667K
$103 - GIGABYTE GV-NX76G256D-RH Geforce 7600GS 256MB PCI-E
$95 - ASUS P5L-VM 1394 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945G Micro ATX
$90 - Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B
$55 - WD Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200RPM SATA300
==========
$898 + tax and shipping

Did you need an optical drive? If so, get this one:
$33 - LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/ LightScribe Black SHM-165H6S
 
Michigan PC said:
alright, my dad has a p4 and 256mb ram system in his office. He wants me to build him a new system. At first He was looking at macs but I think that I should convince him otherwise. I want him to get more for the money. He doesnt game but I want him to be completely ready for vista. Please change or comment
Click to expand...

what an ignorant statement, you are getting every pennys worth with a Mac. With them having Core Duo's & Core 2 Duo's and being able to boot OS X & Windows XP its a great time to purchase a Mac. OS X is one of the easiest and best OS I have ever used and it defintily is puts Windows XP to shame.

Why does dad need a 7600 or equivalent for working in the office.. Intel's integrated will run m$ office & lotus notes just fine...

Get a Mac Mini + Upgrade Ram + Bootcamp & Windows XP, theres your SFF w/ Core Duo and the possibilty of dual booting OS X & Win XP.
 
I3roknI3ottle said:
what an ignorant statement, you are getting every pennys worth with a Mac.
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I don't think they're worth every penny you spend on one. I've got nothing against mac's, except their price tag. If they were cheaper, they'd be much more attractive.

mac mini = core duo... why buy a core duo sff when you can build a core2duo sff for the same amount of money?

he said he wants a 7600gs for vista... whatever that means. i think he really just wants to be able to play a game or two on it, hehe. the onboard gma x3000 is good enough for aero, i believe.
 
alright we decided he doesn't want a mac. This is not a flame war so please just stop

If I install a tv tuner card, could he just watch tv on his pc? Which one should I get? Would it look bad on a 20 inch 600:1 lcd? How do you install one?
 
enginurd said:
I don't think they're worth every penny you spend on one. I've got nothing against mac's, except their price tag. If they were cheaper, they'd be much more attractive.

mac mini = core duo... why buy a core duo sff when you can build a core2duo sff for the same amount of money?

he said he wants a 7600gs for vista... whatever that means. i think he really just wants to be able to play a game or two on it, hehe. the onboard gma x3000 is good enough for aero, i believe.
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there not that much expensive than comparable pc's but anways...

please build me a SFF computer comparable to the mac mini's size, I have not seen a shuttle thats the size of a mac mini.. and that uses the core2duo for the same ammount of money..

a shuttle(12.8" x 8.7" x 8.3") for core2duo cost 399.99 alone, thats not including cpu, ram, hardrive, optical, cooling, video card, etc..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16856101009

Mac Mini 599.99
6.5 inches square and 2 inches tall
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=B3C47B0&nclm=Macmini

yes he could watch tv on his pc you could also look at getting a slingbox.
 
<edit>
mac mini/aopen mini pc vs sff matx system: its a tradeoff, performance or size?
</edit>


Michigan PC said:
alright we decided he doesn't want a mac. This is not a flame war so please just stop

If I install a tv tuner card, could he just watch tv on his pc? Which one should I get? Would it look bad on a 20 inch 600:1 lcd? How do you install one?
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yes, he could watch tv on his pc. no, it wont look bad on a 20" lcd. i use a win-tv pvr-250 and a dvico fusion hdtv3 gold q. i'm sure there are better cards out now, but i havent kept up on them (pvr350 and hdtv5 gold). does he watch any hd channels? if so, get an hd tuner. there's also an indoor zenith antenna that works well (antennaweb.org to see which way to point it, its directional). you may want to go with windows xp media center edition instead of xp home. my only gripe with xp mce is that you cant use the analog tuner of an hd tuner, you'll need a seperate analog tuner. you can schedule recording using titantv.com (its free). its rather easy to set this all up, but it is involved. there are also ati cards, but those dont record to a standard format (proprietary one, for copy protection reasons). those are even easier to setup i guess. so go for those if he really doesnt care about a tivo alternative.

how old is your dad or how good is his eyesight? i got a 20" wide for my dad and he didnt like the resolution (his eyes arent so great... he's getting old). so i had to get him a 19" standard instead. just something to think about (lcd's look best at their native resolutions).

what speakers does he have? the asus board i suggested above only has 6ch audio, which should be enough for an office pc and hdtv. if he wants to record shows, you should get a larger hdd than the two i suggested above. there's a 320gb seagate 7200.10 model for only $95 on the egg.
 
he currently has a dell 19inch lcd, and a pos little tv in his office. Would it be possible to use that 19inch lcd as a designated tv replacement for the old tv? How would I do this. I wouldnt want anything on the 19inch lcd except for tv. He doesnt watch hd channels.
 
Michigan PC said:
he currently has a dell 19inch lcd, and a pos little tv in his office. Would it be possible to use that 19inch lcd as a designated tv replacement for the old tv? How would I do this. I wouldnt want anything on the 19inch lcd except for tv. He doesnt watch hd channels.
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im guessing it doesnt have any other input except vga dsub. therefore, just plug the new monitor into the dvi port, and the old monitor into the dsub port. it'll be seen as a 2nd monitor since its input is dsub, so he can just keep the tv window on that monitor. you can also run a dual monitor setup to get more use out of that 2nd monitor. when he wants to watch tv, keep the tv window on the other monitor while he works on the main monitor. this is what i do with my dual 20" setup when watching stuff on my pc. it'll be more efficient than having it as a dedicated tv.

any questions about the other stuff i suggested? i just want to make sure you dont get the ata100 hdd when a sata300 drive is cheaper than the one you posted in your op.
 
I changed the hd thanks for the input. My dad is used to just working on his pc and watching tv. I think it would be easier for him to just have the 2yr old lcd be the designated tv. What eactly would I have to do? I have never dealt with tv tuners before.
 
I changed the hd thanks for the input. My dad is used to just working on his pc and watching tv. I think it would be easier for him to just have the 2yr old lcd be the designated tv. What eactly would I have to do? I have never dealt with tv tuners before.
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What my dad actually does is connect his laptop to the Dell LCD and then just switch inputs on the monitor.

Anyways, If you're thinking about a TV tuner, you can either get a stand-alone tuner or you can get an ATI AIW (All in Wonder) which is both a GPU and TV Tuner.

A stand alone card will cost you roughly $50 while depending on the GPU invovled, AIW cards start at $100 (AIW X1300) and go up to about $250 (AIW X1900).

Newegg has a OEM AIW1900 for $190, which isn't a bad deal IMHO.

All you do is install it just like any old internal card then attach a coax cable to it, and bam! You're good to go.

The downfall about AIW is it only has one monitor output, but ATi has some cool programs that you can shrink the window the TV or even make it transparent, so your dad can be working in Excel and in the background will be the TV, lol.

So... Options

1. Stand Alone Tuner + Stand alone GPU (Can have dual monitor)
2. AIW (You don't have dual monitors)
3. AIW + Another GPU (Dual+ monitors)

what an ignorant statement, you are getting every pennys worth with a Mac.
Click to expand...

Again, the BUSINESS world runs off of Microsoft/PC's not Macs. So, for the vast majority of Business users, it's better to get a PC rather then a mac.

I mean honestly, how many CEO's do you see running aroud with a Mac... Do you think you'd see Mr. Gates running around carrying a Mac? lol
 
thank you for the help, Im sure I will be back with more questions soon

also if anyone has anymore suggestions please let me know
 
Michigan PC said:
I changed the hd thanks for the input. My dad is used to just working on his pc and watching tv. I think it would be easier for him to just have the 2yr old lcd be the designated tv. What eactly would I have to do? I have never dealt with tv tuners before.
Click to expand...

I'm running this Hauppage TV Tuner on my Shuttle SN25P. My advice is to make sure
that you get one that encodes via hardware not software. They usually come with some basic software that will read or install the needed codecs for viewing. Looks good on my
Dell 24" LCD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815116624

If you want better software to run it I suggest Beyond TV.
 
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