New NForce Driver out tommorow

A

Arvig

Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
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882
Yep. Non-Beta, and fully supports those of us using NForce 4 boards, especially SLI.

Err...no link, since it will be sometime Friday morning when it's out, but here's an article saying to look for it Friday:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21081

Oh, and yes the MSI board is great! Had one oddball conflict with my 7-1 USB based card reader, have one that connects to the internal port, it was sometimes causing windows to lock up right before the splash screen, no idea why. Anything else USB based is fine. Oh well, if that's the only major bug, especially compared to the...fun I had with the ASUS A8N-SLI, I'll live. :)

No major overclocks attempted yet, I'll play with that this weekend or early next week I suspect.
 
Just came back on, cool on my end since I have a NForce 4 board, but interesting IMO that they did a "standalone" driver for NForce 4, instead of a unified driver, I never remember NVidia doing that for a specific chipset before.
 
Arvig said:
Just came back on, cool on my end since I have a NForce 4 board, but interesting IMO that they did a "standalone" driver for NForce 4, instead of a unified driver, I never remember NVidia doing that for a specific chipset before.
Click to expand...
Now, aren't you sorry you gave up on the DM10 drives?
 
babyjocko said:
Now, aren't you sorry you gave up on the DM10 drives?
Click to expand...

Nope, because I know it's a firmware issue, not a driver issue. :p

From what I understand, one has to flash the Diamond Max 10's with them connected to a non-NVidia SATA port, then connect them back to see if they work. Got a PM from someone that they had to e-mail Maxtor over four days to get the firmware, so it's not exactly easy to get them to give it out, I don't see anywhere on their site to find it. Don't know how accurate this is, but saw on MSI's forum that even Neo2's NForce 3 boards sometimes don't like the Maxtor NCQ drives, and thus one had to do a firmware flash with them on non NVidia SATA ports....which considering the MSI Neo2 Platinum has only NVidia Ports, the guy posting said he felt mighy lucky he had a SATA RAID card in another machine he could use for this.

Okay, so yeah it would have been nice to flash them to see if they truly would work...but with the hassle, and the fact that the Raptors I have work damn fine (and that I ditched the ASUS for a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum anyway), no I don't miss them.

That and it was obvious to me that a driver fix wouldn't fix the problem...not when the board would drop the drives before going into Windows. :p
 
Hopfully the "General compatibility fixes" Nvidia mention in the driver's release notes means they have sorted out the NCQ problem!
 
Arvig said:
Nope, because I know it's a firmware issue, not a driver issue.
Click to expand...
You don't know that. That doesn't make sense. In fact, even if that were the case,
1) Maxtor would likely make the firmware available to the public (not just to those who ask).
2) Maxtor would not make a firmware update more difficult than via a Windows installer, or at worst, by way of a floppy install
3) You could just as easily update the firmware


That and it was obvious to me that a driver fix wouldn't fix the problem...not when the board would drop the drives before going into Windows.
Click to expand...
Huh? Who told you that? Just because the drivers install from Windows that it therefore must be exclusively used by Windows? These are drivers that support the nForce4 chipset. The chipset is not exclusive to Windows. It is the fundamental system architecture with which the BIOS directly communicates. So, yes, it can have a direct effect on how the computer components respond even BEFORE entering Windows.
 
babyjocko said:
You don't know that. That doesn't make sense. In fact, even if that were the case,
1) Maxtor would likely make the firmware available to the public (not just to those who ask).
2) Maxtor would not make a firmware update more difficult than via a Windows installer, or at worst, by way of a floppy install
3) You could just as easily update the firmware



Huh? Who told you that? Just because the drivers install from Windows that it therefore must be exclusively used by Windows? These are drivers that support the nForce4 chipset. The chipset is not exclusive to Windows. It is the fundamental system architecture with which the BIOS directly communicates. So, yes, it can have a direct effect on how the computer components respond even BEFORE entering Windows.
Click to expand...

Well...for the first part:

1) Just got a PM from someone who had to contact Maxtor over a four day period to get the firmware.

2) I've read on MSI's board, the one connected to their website where someone had the same issue on a MSI board, and that although yes they could use a floppy, they had to use a non NVidia SATA port to do so, so no I wasn't just making this up.

3) And okay, if one has non NVidia SATA ports, either via a second controller like my board's Silicon Image ports, or a RAID card it is easy. But AGAIN not via the NVidia ports. Don't ask me WHY they did this, or maybe they TRIED to do this but couldn't. DON'T ask me why it took someone forever to get Maxtor to e-mail them the firmware, or why they don't have it on the site. But I am reporting what people have told me via e-mail, and what I've seen in other forums. If you are implying what I think you're implying, I'm not just making crap up, THANK YOU, but I AM NOT. :rolleyes:

As for the second paragraph, it is obvious didn't comprehend what I said. LOOK AT WHAT YOU QUOTED. I will repost the second half of what you quoted from my post.

"...not when the board would drop the drives before going into Windows."

Gee, I know the board drops them BEFORE going into Windows. I experienced it first hand, good sir. So yes, I know if I installed Linux, it would do the same. If I didn't install ANY OS, it would do the same. If I just hooked them up and let the thing post, it WOULD DO THE SAME. WHERE in the world do you get the idea that I said it has to do with Windows FROM THAT?!?

EDIT: In fact, from what I can see you're trying to argue that it's a driver issue since the chipset is EXCLUSIVE from Windows?!? So...if someone had a more mature driver for Linux, it wouldn't drop the drives? Or if someone wrote a driver for OS/2 it wouldn't drop them? If this is what you're saying...well...no...I suspect that isn't the case. You see, my board dropped them even with hard drives that had no operating system on them at all.

Gee...not like the magic elves of Windows skipped over into the chipset before Windows had a chance to load to do their work and say "No you nasty hard drives, you can't work, Driver still beta!"

I would think, since it's a CHIPSET issue, that it SHOULD be obvious that it points to one of two things...the BIOS or the FIRMWARE. At least when the drives were being dropped BEFORE ANY OPERATING SYSTEM LOADED. (END EDIT)

Oh well.
 
Arvig said:
Well...for the first part: <snip>
Click to expand...
But, what you don't know is their specific problem. You don't know specifically why Maxtor offered them a firmware upgrade. You may be assuming that it was because of failures associated with nForce4-based mobos.


Gee, I know the board drops them BEFORE going into Windows. I experienced it first hand, good sir. So yes, I know if I installed Linux, it would do the same. If I didn't install ANY OS, it would do the same. If I just hooked them up and let the thing post, it WOULD DO THE SAME. WHERE in the world do you get the idea that I said it has to do with Windows FROM THAT?!?
Click to expand...
Maybe the lateness of the night has helped confuse you. I'll try to make it simple. You said: "...it was obvious to me that a driver fix wouldn't fix the problem...not when the board would drop the drives before going into Windows." We all know you (and many others, including me) had problems with the computer reckognizing the drives before Windows loaded. I'm saying that new chipset drivers most certainly can resolve that problem.

I'll say it again. Chipset drivers are not exclusive to Windows or any other OS. The chipset is the fundamental architecture of your computer. Before the OS even loads, the BIOS communicates directly with the chipset. Chipset drivers are merely a set of instructions for the chipset. Therefore, the chipset has a direct effect on how your computer components respond even before the OS loads.


ADDENDUM: You know, back in the day, there was no such thing as chipset drivers. Today, chipsets have become an extention of the BIOS. The BIOS held the drivers for the "Basic" I/O Systen components such as the keyboard, floppy drive controller, and mouse. But, today, there are much more sophisticated components in a computer system, some of which are included within the design of the chipset. These components must have drivers. Therefore, the chipset designer supplies the drivers for these components.

In the case of nForce4, the RAID controller is such a component. Although the BIOS must interact with all of the components that have external instruction sets (drivers) and may try its best to consider the respective foibles of a component, it is mainly the driver of that component that determains its compatibility and function within the rest of the computer system.
 
babyjocko said:
But, what you don't know is their specific problem. You don't know specifically why Maxtor offered them a firmware upgrade. You may be assuming that it was because of failures associated with nForce4-based mobos.



Maybe the lateness of the night has helped confuse you. I'll try to make it simple. You said: "...it was obvious to me that a driver fix wouldn't fix the problem...not when the board would drop the drives before going into Windows." We all know you (and many others, including me) had problems with the computer reckognizing the drives before Windows loaded. I'm saying that new chipset drivers most certainly can resolve that problem.

I'll say it again. Chipset drivers are not exclusive to Windows or any other OS. The chipset is the fundamental architecture of your computer. Before the OS even loads, the BIOS communicates directly with the chipset. Chipset drivers are merely a set of instructions for the chipset. Therefore, the chipset has a direct effect on how your computer components respond even before the OS loads.
Click to expand...

First paragraph quoted response: No, you've decided I'm assuming. Although no, I am not assoicated with Maxtor, unless someone was lying to me, and unless the people posting in the posts I read were lying, they got a firmware update that based on what they told me/I read, fixed their problem. Since I no longer have the drives, I cannot prove it, but at the same time, unless I've seen nothing but a bundle of lies, they applied the firmware fix, it fixed it. Although yes, some NForce 3 boards were also mentioned as having a problem, many mentioned were also NForce 4 boards also.

Okay, so I guess if I am accidently reading posts by pathological liars, then I am assuming. Otherwise, assuming everyone isn't lying in their posts, it was a firmware fix.

Shall I demand that the author of each and every post I've seen submit to a lie detector test? :p

Second and third paragraph quoted response: YES, I KNOW the chipset drivers are how the OS talks to the chipset. AND YES I KNOW THE CHIPSET IS A FUNDIMENTAL ARCHITECTURE of the computer. But to say that a chipset driver will fix a problem that happens BEFORE they have a chance to communicate with the chipset is utter crap. That's like saying a person can or can't tell what I am saying if I speak to him BEFORE I say it. How would a driver fix a problem where the drives are dropped before the OS even has a chance to load?

The driver has YET to communicate with the chipset, it has yet to load! But then again, the drives were being dropped with a fresh install of Windows...no chipset driver installed yet also.

I KNOW the BIOS is also communicating with the chipset BEFORE the OS loads. But IF the BIOS is the only thing that has communicated with the chipset when the drives are dropped, how can one blame a driver that has yet to load? Or even if the driver helped, still doesn't do a THING to stop the board from dropping the drives BEFORE the OS loads. Drivers can't communicate with the chipset, REGARDLESS of the OS until it loads!
 
Arvig said:
I KNOW the BIOS is also communicating with the chipset BEFORE the OS loads. But IF the BIOS is the only thing that has communicated with the chipset when the drives are dropped, how can one blame a driver that has yet to load? Or even if the driver helped, still doesn't do a THING to stop the board from dropping the drives BEFORE the OS loads. Drivers can't communicate with the chipset, REGARDLESS of the OS until it loads!
Click to expand...
You have no idea what you are talking about. If you care, read "PCs for Dummies". Or better yet, read the A+ certification book. If you don't and continue with your ignorant posts, you will continue to embarrass yourself.

Somehow you are insistent on thinking that the chipset drivers haven't loaded because Windows hasn't loaded. I will say once again, just becasue the drivers were installed from within Windows does not mean that Windows exclusively uses the drivers. These drivers are also used OUTSIDE of Windows, such as when the system is booting, before Windows loads.

That's it for me! If you still don't get it, I will have pity for you.
 
These drivers are also used OUTSIDE of Windows, such as when the system is booting, before Windows loads.
Click to expand...

From what you tell us here, I could also use Windows drivers for my linux installation? sheesh - would be better if you rethink you statement...
 
babyjocko said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. If you care, read "PCs for Dummies". Or better yet, read the A+ certification book. If you don't and continue with your ignorant posts, you will continue to embarrass yourself.

Somehow you are insistent on thinking that the chipset drivers haven't loaded because Windows hasn't loaded. I will say once again, just becasue the drivers were installed from within Windows does not mean that Windows exclusively uses the drivers. These drivers are also used OUTSIDE of Windows, such as when the system is booting, before Windows loads.

That's it for me! If you still don't get it, I will have pity for you.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I pity you too. Pay me enough, and I will pretend to believe you.

Just to ask, still think my comments about the firmware updates came from pathological liars? ;)

I will ask you this. Let's say I make a MS-DOS disk on a floppy. Boot off of the floppy. What chipset DRIVERS were loaded? Yet the board still posts, thus the chipset still works.

The CHIPSET was used OUTSIDE of Windows, such as when the system was booting, before Windows loads. If I boot off of a MS-DOS floppy, what chipset DRIVERS were loaded exactly?

If I just put in a unformatted hard drive, and let the board POST, what chipset DRIVERS were loaded?

No driver upgrade will fix what is in this case a Firmware problem, again assuming that each and every person who posted about the Maxtor firmware fix isn't lying.

Goodnight.
 
redilS said:
From what you tell us here, I could also use Windows drivers for my linux installation? sheesh - would be better if you rethink you statement...
Click to expand...
HAHAHA! Oh my! Is idiocy contagious?

Chipset drivers installed from within Windows are used by Windows and the system BIOS. BTW, in case you didn't know, Windows has it's own BIOS that uses its own set of drivers, bypassing BIOS drivers. But, before Windows loads, the BIOS must be able to communicate with vital components, which is why RAID drivers are important before Windows loads. Other OS's may or may not use the drivers of the BIOS or basic chipset drivers.
 
Arvig said:
I will ask you this. Let's say I make a MS-DOS disk on a floppy. Boot off of the floppy. What chipset DRIVERS were loaded? Yet the board still posts, thus the chipset still works.
Click to expand...
POSTing has nothing to do with chipset drivers. POSTing consists of only the drivers within the BIOS. The driver for the floppy drive controller is within the BIOS.


No driver upgrade will fix what is in this case a Firmware problem, again assuming that each and every person who posted about the Maxtor firmware fix isn't lying..
Click to expand...
Stay ignorant while the rest of us will enjoy our DM10s, with NCQ enabled to boot!

As I said, do yourself a favor and read something.
 
:D

Buddy... seriously.... there are no drivers outside an OS. There's a thing called firrmware that's used instead -> f-i-r-m-w-a-r-e

Just believe Arvig, ok?
 
babyjocko said:
HAHAHA! Oh my! Is idiocy contagious? (my comment: only if you sneeze... :p )

Chipset drivers installed from within Windows are used by Windows and the system BIOS. BTW, in case you didn't know, Windows has it's own BIOS that uses its own set of drivers, bypassing BIOS drivers. But, before Windows loads, the BIOS must be able to communicate with vital components, which is why RAID drivers are important before Windows loads. Other OS's may or may not use the drivers of the BIOS or basic chipset drivers.
Click to expand...

Yes. The BIOS must communicate with vital components. But gee...oddly enough, it does this without any OS installed. I just take a board, CPU and RAM, nothing else connected to it, power it up...guess what, it will POST. No chipset drivers from an OS needed, just what is found in the BIOS.

What drivers, from Windows or anything else were loaded, other then from the BIOS itself?

And how can Windows bypass BIOS drivers before it loads? It has yet to load, and thus do anything.
 
redilS said:
:D

Buddy... seriously.... there are no drivers outside an OS. There's a thing calls firrmware that's used instead -> f-i-r-m-w-a-r-e

Just believe Arvig, ok?
Click to expand...
HAHAHAHA! Obviously you don't know the difference between firmware and drivers. READ A BOOK ON PCs PEOPLE!
 
babyjocko said:
HAHAHAHA! Obviously you don't know the difference between firmware and drivers. READ A BOOK ON PCs PEOPLE!
Click to expand...

You still haven't paid me enough to pretend to believe you. ;)

And how are you going to enjoy those Diamond Max 10 drives, as a paperweight?


Let's see, you're back to this, I do quote you:

"Stay ignorant while the rest of us will enjoy our DM10s, with NCQ enabled to boot!"

Ah, you are back to the "every post Arvig read about the firmware update must have been by pathological liars" hypothesis then. ;)

To quote a PM I received from someone:

"I have followed your posts regarding your problems getting your DM 10's working on nForce4 based motherboards. I thought that you'd be interested to know that Maxtor has new firmware available that is supposed to fix it. They emailed a copy to me today after I spent that last four days harrassing them for it. I asked them what it fixes. Their response "controller incompatibilities". "

Since I don't wish that gentleman to be refered to as a pathological liar, for his privacy I won't reveal who sent it to me.

Go e-mail Maxtor...apparently takes a few tries, they will send you a firmware update. THEN you can enjoy them. As something other then a paperweight.
 
Arvig said:
"controller incompatibilities". "
Click to expand...
And what makes you think that the driver for the controller can't resolve an incompatiblity issue? It takes two to tangle.
 
babyjocko said:
And what makes you think that the driver for the controller can't resolve an incompatiblity issue? It takes two to tangle.
Click to expand...

I am quoting someone who is quoting Maxtor. Go ask Maxtor why they issued a firmware update, and why they made the statement to him. Unless you're also down to calling Maxtor a liar. :p

And the driver won't resolve a compatabiliy issue that happens even with no operating system loaded. The compatability issue is obviously happening BEFORE any OS is loaded.

Or to put it another way, the motherboard will often drop the drives before the OS loads. It will drop the drives with no OS loaded. I know this. How can a driver fix such an issue if it happens before ANYTHING is loaded? It is happening with NO OPERATING SYSTEM ON THE DRIVES. WITH BLANK, PRISTINE HARD DRIVES.

Will the driver suddenly shout "OOO...look, the drives are missing, let's go drag them back, for they are lost and have been dropped...". Nope. They are dropped before anything that even smells like an operating system is loaded. Nope, they are dropping EVEN WITH NOTHING INSTALLED ON THE HARD DRIVES. Kind of hard for the driver to fix the issue if it happens before they load, isn't it? Yes, it is. Also hard for a driver to fix an issue on PRISTINE HARD DRIVES WITH NOTHING INSTALLED ON THEM, isn't it? Yes, it is.

REEDIT: I'm going to bed. Believe what you wish. If the incompatability issue only happened after Windows was installed, or even AFTER any OS was installed, then I'd believe a chipset driver issue. But SINCE it happens before ANY OS is installed, SINCE it happens with drives that have NO OS INSTALLED, it's hardware. Since I am not so rude as to call someone who e-mails me a liar, and thus assume that they are both telling the truth and were told the truth by Maxtor, I shall believe them before I believe you. Again, goodnight. If you wish a last word, so be it.
 
:rolleyes: This whole thread is funny because it's analogically parallel to the computer problems you're having:

You don't know how to communicate with each other.

This can be fixed with either an updated BIOS or firmware (in the chipset and/or the disk drives) A driver is a piece of software that the OS uses to communicate with the hardware's BIOS/firmware. I am so fuk'ing glad I bought nVidia + Marvell SATA.

I think you both need new firmware :p
 
charles555 said:
:rolleyes: This whole thread is funny because it's analogically parallel to the computer problems you're having:

You don't know how to communicate with each other.

This can be fixed with either an updated BIOS or firmware (in the chipset and/or the disk drives) A driver is a piece of software that the OS uses to communicate with the hardware's BIOS/firmware. I am so fuk'ing glad I bought nVidia + Marvell SATA.

I think you both need new firmware :p
Click to expand...

LOL. Well, maybe we don't communicate well with each other. But to requote you:

"This can be fixed with either an updated BIOS or firmware..."

This is what I've been trying to tell him the whole time. Even been trying to tell him that Maxtor has a firmware update.

(edited out part of my reply)

Me <--REALLY am off to bed now.
 
i have been hitting my head on a very hard wall while reading this post. i cant belive how someone can belive he is right over a while post of people.... drivers are used by the os not the bios or the chipset. the drivers are loaded when the os starts. the bios talkes to the firmware before then. simple. no driver update will fix something outside of the os.

SpYkEs
 
This has gotten silly. Arvig, don't worry, most understand that the nVidia drivers are loaded with the OS and that the only code that communicates with the drives at boot is the mobo's BIOS.

Anyway, I'm the one who PM'ed you and I can answer at least one of your questions; the reason why Maxtor doesn't post their firmware updates is because it often doesn't work leaving you with a brick. That's exactly what happened to me. Maxtor stepped me through the process to upgrade my drive to code rev BANC1BM0. The result was a dead drive. The senior tech who was helping me was quite sure it would work. The DLOAD program they use said it did work. It didn't. They are RMA'ing it and are going to have their engineering group look at why the process failed. Can you imagine what would happen if they had posted this?

Point #2, you need two things to get your drive to work; a compatible mobo bios, and mobo drivers. Maxtor is trying to fix the bios detect problem from their end while mobo manufactures are fixing it from their end in their latest bios'. Assuming that all this happens nVidia then needs to have a driver set that works with NCQ on. Apparently 6.39 does this. It's not clear to me whether a bios upgrade on the drive itself is really necessary if the mobo's bios detects and the nVidia drivers works.

As an FYI the firmware on my original drive was BANC1B10. I just purchased a new one at CompUsa and it had code rev BANC1B70.

Lastly, when I purchased the first DM10 it worked perfectly out of the box with my P5AD2-E Premium. It's clear to me that Maxtor never tested their new NCQ drives on any NF2, NF3, or NF4 mobo. Shame on them. Had they done so they would have known long ago that the drives never worked on anything less than 6.39. And while they did help me, it's obvious they they're testing methodology leaves a lot to be desired.

UPDATE: I reinstalled my MSI Neo4 Ultra using the new DM10 with firmware BANC1B70 and using nVidia 6.39 drivers. Everything works as it should. And I dare not attempt to update this new drive even though I have the newest firmware sitting on a floppy.
 
Arvig, you are right, I am wrong. I won't explain the basis for my argument as it is a moot point.

Nevertheless, a BIOS revision could very well resolve the problem. If you disagree with that, leave it alone as I am tired of arguing.
 
babyjocko said:
Arvig, you are right, I am wrong. I won't explain the basis for my argument as it is a moot point.

Nevertheless, a BIOS revision could very well resolve the problem. If you disagree with that, leave it alone as I am tired of arguing.
Click to expand...


ROFL. Love how you just had to jump in and try to make it look like I'd argue that a BIOS update might not fix the problem. *start sarcasm* How noble of you *end sarcasm*

Then again, you did seem to keep on implying that I was lying and fabricating what was told to me. And even now, you had to say SOMETHING to see if I'd argue some more, while claiming to be tired of argueing. Does honestly make me wonder if you were just trolling for replies last night, and I unfortuntly took the bait.

And no, I have no problem with the idea of a BIOS update fixing this in theory, although in fact it has obviously been proved to be a firmware update. To quote myself (okay, second line is me directly, first line is a post I am replying to):

""This can be fixed with either an updated BIOS or firmware..."

This is what I've been trying to tell him the whole time. Even been trying to tell him that Maxtor has a firmware update..."

Otherwise, I am agreeing that this could be fixed with a BIOS OR firmware update, but that I do know of a specific firmware update, as has obviously now been confirmed in this post.

To wagoogee: I hope you don't feel I inadvertly drug you into this debate/arguement/flamewar I had with babyjocko last night by quoting your PM to me. I'm going to take the liberty of PMing you also on this, but anyway if you feel I did drag you into last nights...discussion without your consent, I do apologize now.

And I'm glad the CompUSA drive has the proper firmware, glad to see someone can use their drive on an NForce 4 board.
 
These new drivers DO allow me to use NCQ (it was enabled by default after I installed them) and I have been running for a couple days now with zero corruption problems...

I am not sure if it also allows me to see my DiamondMax 10's with all BIOSes yet but they do detect fine in 1002 and 1004.001 (through all reboots).

I will test on 1003 this evening to see if there is any effect.
 
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