rat
Supreme [H]ardness
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https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/apple_s_macbook_pro_will_use_a_proprietary_ssd/1
Horray. Even more bullshit.
Horray. Even more bullshit.
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New MacBook Pros Max Out At 16GB RAM Due to Battery Life Concerns
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
On a laptop? It absolutely is a benefit. It's the entire goal of the form factor!
One of the ways OSX survives legit work use in mixed environments is by using VMs. Then you have people working with video editing, large graphics, etc. All these things eat through memory, and apple just gave a big middle finger to people who buy the most expensive version of their products with the most margin attached because that additional SSD space and RAM did NOT cost $700.
They were courageous by eliminating the SD port, and not giving you all of the power cord. You can thank them for their courage at the memorial wall of dongles in every apple store.
I like my 2012 MBPR, it's been very, very nice. It was my first personally owned mac, and it is looking to be my last. Ditched the SD card slot, went solely usb-C when geting good cables is still a problem, want to charge me $20 to get the rest of the power adapter, introduces the touch strip reminiscent of the outrageously successful 1st gen nook (Sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired), and a nice fat price jump in addition to what is looking to be a ~$100 dongle fee to able to hook anything up to it, even more is I want some thunderbolt 3 rated cables of any significant length.
It's a $3000 laptop now.
Todd Walter
Gawd
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This. Office 2016 (Excel in particular) gobbles RAM like M&Ms. Add a few Crystal Reports out of the ERP and *poof*, it's all gone.
Take a look at the Dell Precision M3510. Thing is thin, has normal USB ports, pretty light, and has SO-DIMM slots.
The only thing they really took out was the DVD drive.
And for what it is worth, I like my way thicker M4600 and M4800 laptops very much, thank you!
People aren't worrying about a page file on an SSD, cause most have too much memory for it to ever bother hitting page file. Either way, I currently do not see being able to get rid of RAM. Maybe a few years from now, maybe a decade. We'll eventually get to a point where an SSD will be the speed of memory.
I'd also worry about some programs that need to know where it's data is within memory and is stick reading/writing from that single location. Where wear leveling isn't allowed to work.
WorldExclusive
[H]F Junkie
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Having the ability to run two 4K monitors (three screens total) externally but only have 16GB max capacity?
I was on board until the 16GB limit and proprietary SSD.
Apple missed the point of it being a Pro laptop. Pro means Upgradable.
They're probably is trying to protect it's aging Mac Pro desktop that nobody wants.
Remember they released that with 12GB of memory with two sticks, when it needed three sticks for triple channel.
I was on board until the 16GB limit and proprietary SSD.
Apple missed the point of it being a Pro laptop. Pro means Upgradable.
They're probably is trying to protect it's aging Mac Pro desktop that nobody wants.
Remember they released that with 12GB of memory with two sticks, when it needed three sticks for triple channel.
The Precision M3510 is categorized as a workstation, meaning it is intended as a desktop replacement for a relatively non-mobile user, not a fully mobile device. Its weight also "starts at under 5 pounds", reinforcing that it's in a totally different category than what we're talking about on the Apple side. Though, that said, Apple does a very good job at creating desktop replacements that are also mobile.
So, MacBook ChaChing?
I think I read that they're using LPDDR3 and that Skylake doesn't support LPDDR4, surprisingly enough. But that could have been an incorrect report.
They seriously have some kind of neurotic anorexia situation going on over there.
They won't be happy until it's so thin and light that it's completely invisible. They'll sell you an empty box and charge $3k.
But Apple means NOT upgradable.
If you want to upgrade, you need to buy a new system.
4.9GB per second.. pffft. RAM intensive applications can take advantage of way more than that.
And what is the Macbook Pro supposed to be? A childs toy? The PRO moniker says that it is supposed to be a workstation.
If they are going to cut the "PRO" features out, then they should be cutting the "PRO" name out of it as well.
Watch the presentation and you'll know exactly how they're positioning it. Hint: it's smaller than the MacBook Air while being more powerful than the outgoing MacBook Pro.
Skylake support for DDR3 is 16GB, while DDR4 supports up to 32GB.
The problem is DDR4 controller module does use quite a bit more power than DDR3.
They are not really wrong, it just people jump on the gun too fast like a bunch of sheep.
The problem is DDR4 controller module does use quite a bit more power than DDR3.
They are not really wrong, it just people jump on the gun too fast like a bunch of sheep.
You guys must work in some pretty shitty environments.
Whenever I've asked for more RAM or larger hard drive I'm just given a new computer.
If I was a self-employed "Pro" I'd write the purchase off on my taxes.
Seems to be more bellyaching by non-Apple users who never intend to use their products regardless of specs.
I have never thought "Pro" indicated "workstation" and I've never met anyone else who has, either.
WorldExclusive
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Th write-off is great, but the initial investment is what hurts. For me it's $2968.
The refurb 2015 MBP goes for $1699. A more reasonable investment with the same write-off benefit.
The refurb also comes with all of the ports I use on location for my work.
You've never met anyone who thinks that...
Where I work, we buy Dell machines. We are given a few specific hardware configurations we can get.. some of which we have a few options for upgrades.
That being said, buying the upgrade parts (SSD and RAM) from another vendor to bring the specs up to what we need costs about 1/3 the price it does when having the system built with those same specs.
So what do I do" I order the "base" system and then proceed to upgrade them before I distribute them to the users.
As for upgrades later down the road, it costs maybe $100-$200 for RAM and/or SSD compared to $1000+ for a new system. So yeah, upgrades do happen.
As for the MacBook Pro not being a workstation.. then what is the point of the "PRO" name? IF it is effectively an AIR 2, then name it that, but don't strip the features down and call it a "Pro".
aaronspink
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No, thinness isn't the entire goal and never has been. Weight and portability is the goal. At a certain point, going thinner doesn't provide any benefit. And for most laptops, we are already well past the point there thinness provides any actual benefit. Many of the thinner laptops have sacrificed the key portability metric for additional thinness by shaving off battery capacity. And the same thing is happening in phones.
aaronspink
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Actually, most biz environments only support a small number of laptop configurations at any given time. It ends up being the better way. The reason they do it is because with a limited selection of devices in use, it is very cheap to keep around standby machines (and for those that travel internationally to shall we say less than scrupulous places). Something wonky on the laptop? Take it to room X, they pop out the ssd, put it into a working chassis and off you go. SSD issue? Take it to room X, they pop in a new drive and off you go. They can handle the warranty/repair work without causing any disruption to the actual users. Big benefit.
D
Deleted member 222586
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What excuse did they put in this time? Not enough space?
I take it that they want people to use bluetooth... but removing the jack from it is not the way you do it, specially when there is no need for it.
No, it isn't.
The goal is to make a system as portable as possible. And by system you have to include all the stuff you use with the computer. Do you use USB's? OK, need a dongle if the computer has none. Do you use XYZ? OK, need another dongle... and, in the end, the clutter ends up being far bigger (and more expensive).
It happens the same with pico-psu systems if you want to have a high power computer... you waste more space that route that if you go flexATX or SFX. Yes, the pico-psu based case is smaller... but then you need a power dongle (or maybe two). So all things considered it is a shitty product.
Reasons matter not. You can't sell a top-of-the line computer that isn't upgradeable and not offer 32GB, specially when some users today will require said amount of memory... let alone in two years time.
It is simply a matter of Apple being Apple. They don't simply want to sell you a computer that is way more expensive than the competition, they also want to sell you day #1 DLC for it because the product itself is missing features.
If you love carrying around a bag of expensive dongles and other crap you go right ahead.
As others have said it isn't the whole point. Johnny Ive is now an arrogant idiot. His design philosophy has painted Apple into a corner. It's actually killing innovation because it limits them so much.
He needs to be dumped.
If thin and light are important why did they invent a new form factor for SSD's with their own controller that is much larger than the m.2 standard? Cause they want to cash in right? Another proprietary SSD, the only thing removable from the device. What a shock.
SanitaryMold
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These 'discussions' are pointless. If your not going to purchase an Apple computer why does it even matter what is inside it. Your just grinding an axe.
When did H become so soft that people don't even understand the chipset limitations and assume all ram is the same regardless of controller?
If it's not 300 dollars, doesn't have the ability to have 64gig ram, doesn't have every port people are looking for, isn't as thin as a phone, have a raid array for 2000 projects open at a time, then its garbage... oh and Apple.
For a site that likes tech and hardware you need to read the fine print... only certain hardware.
When did H become so soft that people don't even understand the chipset limitations and assume all ram is the same regardless of controller?
If it's not 300 dollars, doesn't have the ability to have 64gig ram, doesn't have every port people are looking for, isn't as thin as a phone, have a raid array for 2000 projects open at a time, then its garbage... oh and Apple.
For a site that likes tech and hardware you need to read the fine print... only certain hardware.
Mission accomplished. Portability requires compromise. In exchange for the ability to take the computer somewhere else, you lose something else.
When your business acumen leads you to the CEO office at Apple, you can dump Ive at your pleasure. In the meantime, this is one of the warmer hot takes I've seen around here lately.
I skimmed the thread and didn't see it mentioned: MacOS does utilize memory compression, so 16GB isn't exactly a *hard limit*.
rat
Supreme [H]ardness
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Funny, because they managed to make the Razer Blade Stealth smaller while not having to remove ports or features.
The Razer Stealth has 2 USB 3.0, 1 USB Type-C, and 1 HDMI, for a total of 4 ports. Apple offers... 4 USB Type-C ports. Apple wins this one, because the Type-C port is more functional than the individual HDMI port or the two individual USB 3.0 ports.
rat
Supreme [H]ardness
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Enjoy carrying all those dongles with you. Wanna plug in your iPhone into your new Macbook? Or even use a thumbdrive. Aw shit, can't even do either of that without a dongle.
D
Deleted member 222586
Guest
I understand that small things have compromises. Trust me, I do. But the solution to make those compromises work isn't a dongle, for the love of god. The second you require adaptors to plug something simple and common means that whatever you are using is poorly designed because, in the end, any and all space-saving measures adopted will be worthless because you have to carry adapters with you and that defeats the purpose in the first place.
This is the same as making a computer case very small.... and then put a dc-based psu with an exterior psu. Overall you didn't save space, although if you consider the enclosure alone... then yes, you did. But we should analyze the whole thing.
I would argue that the use of dongles on any notebook would be a relatively infrequent one-off and something that doesn't describe the total set of uses, much less the portability of said system.
I've got a TB2-to-Ethernet adapter with my Macbook Pro, but it never led me to think my system was less portable in the instances I used it.
I've got a TB2-to-Ethernet adapter with my Macbook Pro, but it never led me to think my system was less portable in the instances I used it.
D
Deleted member 245375
Guest
There's also a report that the SSD in the new MacBook Pro laptops is - guess what - proprietary and probably not something we'll be seeing from typical suppliers anytime soon:
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/apple_s_macbook_pro_will_use_a_proprietary_ssd/1
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/apple_s_macbook_pro_will_use_a_proprietary_ssd/1
Seems surprising, but this cluster of members don't care to pay attention to hardware or software features. It's all about bullet points. Oh and dongles, it's all about the dongles apparently.
You've seen these guys around, I'm sure, maybe even been one at some point in your life. They walk around with a backpack full of shit. Extra batteries, cables, hard drives, flash drives, external dvd drives, blank DVD-R's "just in case" and a whole bevy of last decade, last century even, useless crap. They'll drone on forever if you pay attention to them long enough but won't use any of that useless, outdated crap *or worse* create use cases in their routine that make things more difficult.
I mean I get it. Like I said many of us used to be that guy. But the reality of the situation is that while I've got thousands of dollars invested in my HTPC it's days are numbered since 90% of it's functionality is replaced by a device 1/90th of it's cost. That's just one example. No one even knows what they'd need to plug in to these so-called "missing" USB ports...or why they're running 4 VM's on their laptops...or why their IT departments are operating in the stone ages where it's somehow less expensive to have someone rip open hundreds or thousands of computers to upgrade an SSD and memory rather than pay a few hundred extra dollars at purchase.
It's just edge case stacked upon edge case stacked upon edge case until you get some weird caricature of a user who doesn't actually exist anywhere except in their minds and is about impossible to refute since the errors are so myriad it'd take a week to unravel and respond to each misconception.
nvgrim
[H]ard|Gawd
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my 17" dell XPS from 2010 is light enough to carry around. If 5-8lbs is too heavy to carry around in a bag or backpack then there is something else wrong. If your laptop is so thin that it requires dongles to use ports that 99% of every laptop has then its too thin. Same with the iphone 7, since they wanted to make it so think (even though i think the previous models were thin enough) the camera buldges out the back and the phone doesnt even lay flat on a table.
This is such awful reasoning. What is the purpose of advancing technology if you're still telling people to deal with the drawbacks? And your 17'' 6 year old desktop replacement behemoth laptop is NOT typical in any way of what people want or expect from their laptop.
nvgrim
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Its far from a behemoth, and how is removing ports and adding them as dongles just to say you have a light laptop is advancing technology. Again a 5lb laptop is not a drawback, yeah sure if someone said I have two laptops with identical specs except one is 6 lbs and the other is 2lbs they would take the lighter thinner one over the heavier one. But tell them it doesn't have the same ports as the heavier one and if you want to plug your BRAND NEW IPHONE into the thinner one you need to use a dongle some are going to second guess their decision.
Does your laptop have VGA and DVI ports? There was a transitional time when those of us around during those days had to use dongles to connect external monitors and projectors to laptops. The world didn't end, in fact it moved on. That's always been the way technology "progresses." Look at the current state of HDMI...not in the way that PC experiences it, but in the complete and total clusterfuck of home theater. One could argue that's even worse because it's the same connector but requires different cables, firmware, and a whole host of things that make even supposedly compatible things incompatible or wonky.
And since you don't have an iPhone and likely never will, I have to explain to you that no one is plugging their brand new iPhone into this laptop or any other laptop. iPhone users have been syncing, backing up, and updating cordlessly for years now.
In fact, I don't even take calls on my phone anymore. Texting and calling is seamless with my MacBook. The only times it comes out of my pocket is when I'm in the car and have to plug it into CarPlay and when I put it on my bed when I go to sleep. I rarely even charge it since it's barely used other than connectivity between my MacBook and the cellular infrastructure.
Next iteration the charging will be wireless and this forum will explode over the absence of a cable that would otherwise sit in a box its entire life.
I spent the entire last year listening to misinformed opinions about the lack of USB-C connectivity on macs and now that they've given people four there's this new bug up your asses.
nvgrim
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Yes, it has vga and hdmi as well as usb,esata,card reader, etc
Actually i do have an iphone, i have only ever used iphones since the 3g as i prefer ios over android. I still backup and sync my phone to my computer as i dont use the cloud storage.
Then again this really doesnt matter to me as i dont own an macbook or ever will, i still think its stupid to remove ports for the sake of thinness and weight. When current laptops arent even remotely heavy to where they become a strain unless you're getting business class one like the M6800.