New iPad today what do you expect?

Terpfen said:
One day, just as with the CPU and GPU forums, people will not come to the subforum that deals with products they don’t like just to start arguments over whose products are better and why.

It’s amazing how this crap happens every single time there’s an Apple event. If you guys think Apple’s products are inferior in every way that matters to you, why bother posting here?
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Some people do that, I'm a Windows shop guy, I don't own Apple products and I just like the conversation and seeing what the Apple community thinks about stuff. As I said, I don't have any Apple products so it is a way for me to learn things.

If I make errors and mistakes, fine correct me and I learn something. Likewise I do know a thing or two about things that a lot of Apple people have never laid eyes on, so if I see something I think is in error I say so.

I do think that its tougher for a larger chunk of Apple fans to admit an Apple's product weakness than Windows fanboys like myself. Every Windows device I own has significant weaknesses but they also have some unique strengths, but I don't hide either. I've always been honest about Windows 7 as a touch based OS, it has plenty of weakness in that area. However when an app is designed for touch its amazing just how much it looks like something on an iPad, though those apps are rare in the Windows world today.

The iPad is a wonderful device. It's got great battery life, it's fast and responsive overall with a slick and easy to use touch optimized UI and awesome support. It is however geared towards entertainment and not productivity. This is the general consensus of just about every iPad and Tablet PC owener I’ve ever talked to. It’s not a slam, it’s just the fairest and most objective assessment I can make of the device and being a guy that carries as Tablet PC most places I get a lot of questions about these devices in general and the iPad specifically. I like to give good advice and there are quite a few times that I’ve recommended to someone that they get an iPad over a Tablet PC device simply because when I asked them what they wanted in a slate the iPad fit the bill better.

I tend to recommend Tablet PCs to students and to people who specifically say that want to take handwritten notes. Call me an Apple basher but note taking just isn’t a strength of the iPad. I’ve research this subject a lot, borrowed iPads over the weekend a few times and tested several capacitive pens and apps. The last time I did this was about 6 months ago and I do need to take a look at the apps again but the lack of digital pen is always going to be a handicap for the iPad and any other touch only device when it comes to this particular activity I believe.

So not everyone is an Apple basher. I just l like the conversation and to talk to people that I know have a different view of things. Isn’t it boring to discuss things in an echo chamber? But sure, I don’t buy into the Apple hype, I hope I don’t buy into anyone’s hype but like everyone I have my biases and having conversations with those who have different opinions helps to counteract them.
 
Terpfen said:
It’s amazing how this crap happens every single time there’s an Apple event. If you guys think Apple’s products are inferior in every way that matters to you, why bother posting here?
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He must've gotten bored of the Front Page thread.
 
Buying a 16GB iPad2 w/ the camera connection kit.

Then I will proceed to wait 6-7 hours for Dev team to release the Jailbreak and will then use the camera connection kit + iFile to gain 64gb of external storage.

Win.

Also will wait for the chinese HDMI out cable for $5.
 
Terpfen said:
One day, just as with the CPU and GPU forums, people will not come to the subforum that deals with products they don’t like just to start arguments over whose products are better and why.

It’s amazing how this crap happens every single time there’s an Apple event. If you guys think Apple’s products are inferior in every way that matters to you, why bother posting here?
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Because debating is fun?

One day, people who don't want to see disagreements will stop coming to forums populated by more than 1 person.
 
Terpfen said:
One day, just as with the CPU and GPU forums, people will not come to the subforum that deals with products they don’t like just to start arguments over whose products are better and why.

It’s amazing how this crap happens every single time there’s an Apple event. If you guys think Apple’s products are inferior in every way that matters to you, why bother posting here?
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If you don't like it then I have to ask WTF are you doing here? I'm sure you can find an Apple forum where people with differing opinions have their posts deleted.
 
Harry1969 said:
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If you don't like it then I have to ask WTF are you doing here? I'm sure you can find an Apple forum where people with differing opinions have their posts deleted.
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You missed my point entirely, but thanks for alleging that I’m trying to promote insular thinking.
 
First off, I'm a PC user. This doesn't distract from the fact that I do like some Apple products (I <3 my iPhone 4). Just would never own a Mac. Personal preference.

With the announcement of the iPad 2, I finally dropped the cash for the first iPad. It's plenty fast and I don't need a camera. Not too mention it dropped $100. And I love the simplicity and functionality of it. Highly convenient.

That is all. :)
 
kllrnohj said:
Which has nothing to do with *MATERIALS* quality, on which you claimed the Xoom was inferior to the iPad. It also isn't thicker at all - the Xoom and the iPad are both 13mm thick. The iPad 2 is definitely the thinnest, to be sure, but if the back is curved like the first gen iPad it is still probably going to suck to hold. Apple and ergonomics never did get along well.
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We should be talking about the iPad 2 when discussing the Xoom, given that they are products from the same hardware generation. Also, look at photos of the iPad 2, it is flat. Given that it is about the same thickness as the Kindle 3, there isn't even room for a curve.

The Kindle 3 is also comfortable as hell to hold, by far my favorite of the tablet style devices from an ergonomics standpoint. The iPad 2, being thinner than the Kindle DX which I'm also familiar with, should also handle nicely as a result.

All of which has shit-all to do with build quality or form factor. The Nook Color's software sucks as a tablet, but that isn't the hardware's fault (800mhz Cortext A-8 puts it more or less in the same class as an iPad 1). The problem is running an old version of Android (no JIT, no concurrent garbage collection, no GPU accelerated GUI, etc...) combined with whatever crap B&N did to get it to run on a 7" screen.
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Wow, you sure are mad! I judge products on the whole. I don't excuse "fast" hardware if the software sucks. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Correction: Apple is finally catching up to the competitors with the iPad 2 (well, maybe - we still don't know what the GPU or RAM specs are, nor how the GPU compares to the Tegra 2). Seriously, how can something that is *already out* be catching up to something that *isn't release yet*? The RDF is strong with you, holy shit.
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These are products of the same hardware generation, products that are literally weeks apart. Do you really think that Apple is reacting to the Xoom with only a few weeks of R&D, design, and manufacturing of the iPad 2? Good lord man, RDF yourself.

Either way, it should be clear to anyone why Apple isn't playing catch-up, namely hardware design and app library. Again, Samsung is seemingly going back to the drawing board with the Galaxy Tab 10.1: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/techscience/2011/03/04/9/0601000000AEN20110304009300320F.HTML
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/samsung-chief-calls-galaxy-tab-10-1-inadequate/

"We will have to improve the parts that are inadequate," Lee told Yonhap News Agency. "Apple made it very thin."

This is before we even get into price. Samsung wanted the Galaxy 10.1 tab to be even more expensive than the $900 7" Galaxy Tab.

Now, they clearly don't have time to cancel the product and redesign from scratch, that doesn't happen overnight. They won't cancel it either, that would be shocking. They'll more likely ship an "inferior" product, and then try and catch up to the iPad 2 by making their next Galaxy Tab thinner in the next cycle. At that point, Apple will very likely have iterated past the point that Samsung is trying to catch up to, and the cycle of "catch-up" will continue. I don't trust companies like Samsung or Motorola to lead in any real way, not unless they surprise everyone. And you'll of course continue to spin denial :D

More importantly, the app library speaks for itself, a massive iOS library with many high quality tablet oriented apps compared to literally a few dozen on Honeycomb. Combine that with the fact that Android is even less profitable a platform than Windows Phone 7, which has a much smaller install base, and there may be problems getting developers on board en masse. With WP7 you have paying customers and a great dev environment, and with iOS you have access to a massive number of paying customers. Who knows, maybe Android tablet users will be more likely to spend cash than Android phone users. If you don't consider app library an area where Android needs to catch up in, I honestly don't know what to say.

Also, i doubt anyone is going to go straight to 2x res because with Android having an intelligent API, it doesn't have to increase by whole numbers like iOS does. Meaning you could see, say, 1920x1080 Android tablets or even 1680x1050.
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And Android developers will continue complaining about supporting multiple resolutions, or they'll just let it go and suck it up with layout or formatting issues. Brilliant.

Also, I would never claim the MBP has good performance. Yes, it ships with powerful hardware - but it can't use it. As soon as you try and use the CPU or GPU, the pathetically crappy fan *screams* trying to shove air through a non-existent vent. This has the net result of cooling jack shit, dumping all of the CPU and GPU's heat right into your hands thanks to that aluminum case. Beautifully designed without a single ounce of engineering.
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Funny, I've never had problems even after playing games on it for very long periods of time. Sure the fans spin up, but they spin up on gaming laptops like the Asus G73 or anything else like it. I've never had any issues with hardware shutting down or frying components.

And as for "never claiming the MBP has good performance", well, this seems pretty frigging fast to me: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380921,00.asp#
http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,1740,iid=287468,00.asp
 
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heatlesssun said:
I do think that its tougher for a larger chunk of Apple fans to admit an Apple's product weakness than Windows fanboys like myself. Every Windows device I own has significant weaknesses but they also have some unique strengths, but I don't hide either. I've always been honest about Windows 7 as a touch based OS, it has plenty of weakness in that area. However when an app is designed for touch its amazing just how much it looks like something on an iPad, though those apps are rare in the Windows world today.
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You've mellowed out quite a lot in this area. A year ago you would excuse away any faults with Windows 7 as a touch OS and how it was just great great great, as well as how the tm2 actually had nice hardware and a nice enough display. I'm not sure if it is because of our debates, but you've changed your tune on all of these things quite significantly, much more balanced opinions than before. Or maybe with the tm2 it's because better touch hardware is finally out and the deficiencies of HP's hardware are finally easier for you to admit now that something better has come along.

I still absolutely cannot grasp your love of the W100 though, my lord that thing is awful. ;)
 
Serpico said:
You've mellowed out quite a lot in this area. A year ago you would excuse away any faults with Windows 7 as a touch OS and how it was just great great great, as well as how the tm2 actually had nice hardware and a nice enough display. I'm not sure if it is because of our debates, but you've changed your tune on all of these things quite significantly, much more balanced opinions than before. Or maybe with the tm2 it's because better touch hardware is finally out and the deficiencies of HP's hardware are finally easier for you to admit now that something better has come along.

I still absolutely cannot grasp your love of the W100 though, my lord that thing is awful. ;)
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It's because they released new mediocre crap and so he's able to now cling to that while admitting the old crap was crap. Slate comes out, admit the TM2 actually was crap, cling to Slate. Windows 8 devices comes out, admit the Slate really was crap, cling to new Windows 8 device. Same as his tune on Windows 7 touch features changed from "the best evar!" to "well it does digitization all right but the rest is lacking" when Microsoft announces a tablet-specific OS for next year.

He's not alone though, the Android guys do the exact same thing when HTC announces a new device that is marginally faster than the old one. The Linux guys are even worse: "This new Ubuntu supports wireless flawlessly!!...*6 months later*...Oh Ubuntu version 1029.4 fixes that, the old version's wireless support was crap all along." It's the same line I've been hearing from these companies for 20 years: "next version will fix it, wait until then!"
 
Serpico said:
You've mellowed out quite a lot in this area. A year ago you would excuse away any faults with Windows 7 as a touch OS and how it was just great great great, as well as how the tm2 actually had nice hardware and a nice enough display. I'm not sure if it is because of our debates, but you've changed your tune on all of these things quite significantly, much more balanced opinions than before. Or maybe with the tm2 it's because better touch hardware is finally out and the deficiencies of HP's hardware are finally easier for you to admit now that something better has come along.

I still absolutely cannot grasp your love of the W100 though, my lord that thing is awful. ;)
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I'd like you to find where I've EVER said that Windows 7 is a great touch OS. I've always said that is lacks a lot of touch application and that it's needs to be improved. That said touch in Windows 7 can very work very in certain circumstances, for instance touch based browsing I believe is superior to the iPad in many ways. It's faster and works with 100% of the web, the biggest flaw it smooth pinch zooming but that actually has improved a lot in IE 9.

As for the tm2, once again I've always maintained that it's biggest flaw is it's screen, my YouTube reviews of the device state this CLEARLY. Is the screen usuable? I've been using for a year productively along with many others so yes it is. This is very much in the mainstream of opinion of tm2 owners if you ever to talk to them.

I've not changed my tune about anything really, maybe over time I've made my points clearer but I still maintain that Windows 7 on the proper hardware has a useable touch interface and can do a lot and sometimes it does indeed work better than the iPad. I've been using Windows 7 for over two years on touch screen devices daily since the beta. If it weren't useable I don't see how it could be productive.

The W100, the Japanesse version has an integerated WiMax radio in it, and fits into places the iPad doesn't. That makes it a very portable full desktop/laptop browsing device and the touch screen keyboard with it's dedicated screen is better than the iPads overall.

Again I've NEVER said that Windows 7 was superior overall to the iPad's touch interface. I have said that certain tasks like web browsing it can be and certainly the ability touch and pen in conjunction with each other as truly separte input methods is very cool in the case of certain applications like OneNote.

You seem to chose to look at things in a very binary fashion. One weakness or flaw and the whole thing is no good. I tend to look at things at more of a functional level. Can the device do what I want and is there something that does the task better? For certain kinds of functionality there are tradeoffs that are hard to avoid.
 
InorganicMatter said:
It's because they released new mediocre crap and so he's able to now cling to that while admitting the old crap was crap. Slate comes out, admit the TM2 actually was crap, cling to Slate. Windows 8 devices comes out, admit the Slate really was crap, cling to new Windows 8 device. Same as his tune on Windows 7 touch features changed from "the best evar!" to "well it does digitization all right but the rest is lacking" when Microsoft announces a tablet-specific OS for next year.
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Yep. I am pretty sure he was defending the crappy TN screen in his TM2 when I was saying an IPS (or equiv) was an absolute requirement in a tablet for me. Now the IPS screen in his Asus is the best thing ever. :)
 
Snowdog said:
Yep. I am pretty sure he was defending the crappy TN screen in his TM2 when I was saying an IPS (or equiv) was an absolute requirement in a tablet for me. Now the IPS screen in his Asus is the best thing ever. :)
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Once again I have tons of proof to prove you wrong. I reviewed the tm2 on YouTube and CLEARLY pointed out that this was a weak spot and have made plenty of posts on TabletPCReview.com saying the same thing. Sorry Charlie.;)

BTW, the screen in the EP121 is an AFFS+, not IPS. Yes, it's VERY good. I never, not once EVER said the screen in the tm2 was good. It works however and plenty of people agree with that. If it doesn't suit you fine. iPads don't suit everyone's needs either. That's why a lot of people bought tm2 even with the crappy screens. Geez loiuse!
 
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Serpico said:
Wow, you sure are mad! I judge products on the whole. I don't excuse "fast" hardware if the software sucks. Sorry, doesn't work that way.
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Then don't use words like "build quality" if you mean the device as a whole. Not my fault you can't express yourself.

These are products of the same hardware generation, products that are literally weeks apart. Do you really think that Apple is reacting to the Xoom with only a few weeks of R&D, design, and manufacturing of the iPad 2? Good lord man, RDF yourself.
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Then praytell how is anyone playing catch up? You specifically said android was playing catch up AND that android was targetting the ipad1 (a statement hilariously out of touch with reality in it's own right, but whatever). Also, the Xoom may have only launched recently, but other tegra 2 android tablet a have been on the market for a while. They sucked, sure, but android sure as shit isn't playing catch up in the specs department.

If you don't consider app library an area where Android needs to catch up in, I honestly don't know what to say.
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I never said anything to that effect.

And Android developers will continue complaining about supporting multiple resolutions, or they'll just let it go and suck it up with layout or formatting issues. Brilliant.
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No, they won't. The *only* people who claim android is harder to dev for because of multiple screen sizes are apple fanboys who don't know shit about development or android. Major developers have actually stated quite the opposite. Android was built from day 1 to support multiple screen sizes and densities, and development is *very* easy. It is harder to make an app that doesn't scale with dpi than one that does.

Funny, I've never had problems even after playing games on it for very long periods of time. Sure the fans spin up, but they spin up on gaming laptops like the Asus G73 or anything else like it. I've never had any issues with hardware shutting down or frying components.

And as for "never claiming the MBP has good performance", well, this seems pretty frigging fast to me: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380921,00.asp#
http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,1740,iid=287468,00.asp
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1. Start hulu
2. Watch 30 seconds of video
3. Turn up the volume because the ridiculously loud fan starts screaming
4. Burn your hand on the stupid hot chassis trying to do #3.

Also, talk about quote mining, wow.
 
Anybody think that Apple is playing it smart - building up the hype/ momentum? They're not offering pre-orders for weeks out like the original iPad. Instead, they're offer Friday 12:01Am pre-order, followed by a evening retail launch + weekend madness, will result in a large Monday office hype throughout the week.
 
intogamer said:
Anybody think that Apple is playing it smart - building up the hype/ momentum? They're not offering pre-orders for weeks out like the original iPad. Instead, they're offer Friday 12:01Am pre-order, followed by a evening retail launch + weekend madness, will result in a large Monday office hype throughout the week.
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IMO, it’s simpler than that. Why preorder something that comes out a week later?
 
kllrnohj said:
Then don't use words like "build quality" if you mean the device as a whole. Not my fault you can't express yourself.
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I apologize if general comprehension isn't your thing. I look at the whole. Also, you gripe about "quote mining" and yet you completely bypass the first paragraph where I talk specifically about physical design and build quality. Hilarious.

Then praytell how is anyone playing catch up? You specifically said android was playing catch up AND that android was targetting the ipad1 (a statement hilariously out of touch with reality in it's own right, but whatever). Also, the Xoom may have only launched recently, but other tegra 2 android tablet a have been on the market for a while. They sucked, sure, but android sure as shit isn't playing catch up in the specs department.
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And again, specs don't mean much without software or an operating system that is lagging. Maybe this discussion will have meaning in another year when Honeycomb has been out for a while.

No, they won't. The *only* people who claim android is harder to dev for because of multiple screen sizes are apple fanboys who don't know shit about development or android. Major developers have actually stated quite the opposite. Android was built from day 1 to support multiple screen sizes and densities, and development is *very* easy. It is harder to make an app that doesn't scale with dpi than one that does.
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Really. Several developers on Shacknews, one of them being behind Speedtest.net and the front page of HOCP itself has griped endlessly about Android development from the POV of UI.

And practically speaking, it makes sense. There is a level of professionalism and consistency in iOS applications that isn't there in Andoid apps. That doesn't just happen.

1. Start hulu
2. Watch 30 seconds of video
3. Turn up the volume because the ridiculously loud fan starts screaming
4. Burn your hand on the stupid hot chassis trying to do #3.
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I've seen this happen exactly twice in OS X, both times with my iMac, and both times it was due to Flash and completely at random. Killing Flash and restarting it stopped the problem.

It is a random issue brought about by that POS plug-in. I've had it roast the CPU in my Windows 7 PC as well. Either way, not even a game would spin up the fans as much. It is funny how you are picking one faulty application to make a point, especially given that games, as I said, work fine for hours and hours in my experience.

You are saying that this happens all of the time. That is straight up BS.
 
This might be a dumb question, but I know only certain videos on YouTube worked on the iPhone, but do ALL videos on YouTube work on the iPad?

This thing would be ABSOULTLY WORTHLESS if EVERY SINGLE video on YouTube doesn't work on it.
 
There's a YouTube app and I think that in Safari that the video is delivered as HTML 5. There are a lot of sites delivering HTML 5 video, you should only have problems with Flash based video.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's a YouTube app and I think that in Safari that the video is delivered as HTML 5. There are a lot of sites delivering HTML 5 video, you should only have problems with Flash based video.
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I probably won't buy one, but I was just wondering if this "amazing" machine can do something as rudimentary as playing YouTube.
 
OEM said:
I probably won't buy [an iPad]
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Given your past (and frequent) tirades about iTunes, I'm certain you won't. Given that, I can't comprehend why you'd be asking questions about its capabilities. Of what use to you would the answer be?
 
OEM said:
This might be a dumb question, but I know only certain videos on YouTube worked on the iPhone, but do ALL videos on YouTube work on the iPad?

This thing would be ABSOULTLY WORTHLESS if EVERY SINGLE video on YouTube doesn't work on it.
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Yes, this is a dumb question. YouTube has encoded video uploads in H.264 for years. When you browse YouTube on the desktop, you’re getting H.264 wrapped in Flash. When you browse on iOS, you get H.264 without Flash.

iOS will display all but the very oldest videos on YouTube, because those were not transcoded to H.264 at the time of their uploading.
 
phide said:
Given your past (and frequent) tirades about iTunes, I'm certain you won't. Given that, I can't comprehend why you'd be asking questions about its capabilities. Of what use to you would the answer be?
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Just because I hate or have a bad experience with a certain company doesn't mean I want to know about their products.

It'd be ignorant to not know about every piece of hardware out there just because I hate a certain company.

Terpfen said:
Yes, this is a dumb question. YouTube has encoded video uploads in H.264 for years. When you browse YouTube on the desktop, you’re getting H.264 wrapped in Flash. When you browse on iOS, you get H.264 without Flash.

iOS will display all but the very oldest videos on YouTube, because those were not transcoded to H.264 at the time of their uploading.
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It isn't THAT dumb to me considering its Apple, some of their decisions are beyond me, BUT that goes for EVERY company, not just Apple.
 
OEM said:
It isn't THAT dumb to me considering its Apple, some of their decisions are beyond me, BUT that goes for EVERY company, not just Apple.
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No Flash = more battery life. That’s not exactly obscure reasoning.
 
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