New HTPC change over...

T

Trepidati0n

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
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First I woud like to say that the knowledge on this forum is much more tempered than some other places I participate at. Also the smaller crowd keeps the "mob" from trouncing out good ideas....so off to my questions.

Okay...I've decided to tweak the house a bit. The wife would like a small HTPC upstairs to hook up to our old 27" Sony TV. The TV only has S-video and composite inputs for video and stereo for audio. This is not negotiable on the TV. I get to build a new PC...I don't want to push my luck. ;)

The machine will NOT be used for games or browsing the web. It will however be used watching some movies, watching TV (alot), and doing PVR work. More than likely I'll start ripping her CD's to the machine so she can play them from there.

The case must be desktop style and no wider than 17" (standard component width) and no more than about 6" high. It will not receive good ventalation. Or I could use a SFF style case which would receive much better ventalation. In short

1. No games...PERIOD
2. Watch TV (mostly)
3. Act as PVR (means I need a tuner and/or capture card)
4. Watch DVD (occasionally)
5. Listen to music (seldom)
6. Very confined if desktop or moderately confined if SFF
7. Will need to function 100% with a remote only (will keep a wired mouse/keyboard as backup.
8. Would like dual tuners (probally asking to much)

Your ideas? Please make sure that the minimizing the $$$ is a priority.
 
If you're looking for cheap, I wouldn't bother with SFF. You tend to pay a premium for the small case. I'd find a cheap mATX motherboard instead, and get a relatively slim mATX case. It'll likely fit whever you'd need it to (you may have to find or modify cards to fit a half-height case). Usually PCI/AGP risers are a good alternative.

I would definitely recommend a SFF if you don't mind paying a little extra (Shuttle's having a Halloween sale right now, BTW). You could in theory fit double-tuners in a shuttle, provided you get an all-in-wonder sort of solution for the agp slot. ATI's all-in-wonders usually include a remote wonder, which would allow for remote control of just about anything (If not, look into programming Girder)

It really has more to do with how much you're willing to spend

edit- annoying spelling error
 
I like the Asus Pundit. P4 based barebones from Asus for like $165. it's pretty small and the shape is more suited to HTPC. It also has svideo out on board, so no need to buy a card. Sound is onboard too. All you need to do is pop a little celeron CPU in there and the hardrive of your choice. DVDrom if you plan on watching movies that way.
 
also- If you don't mind using half-height cards, I'd check out the Antec Minuet. It's a nice small case, and it is definitely cheaper than many other HTPC cases out there...
 
at $80, it is not that cheap. I use a simplemax from PCtoys that is $5 and has stealth drives. looks nice and I have gotten several compliments on it. Plus when you add the cost of a mobo (at least $40) and a video card with svideo (at least $20) and a sound card with SPDIF out (at least $27) the Pundit is easier and the same price, if not cheaper.
 
Well... I had a lot of the same goals as you do. Except mine will be used for internet & maybe lite games. As I was looking around I found the MSI Mega systems (I have the 180 which is AMD based, but they also have the 865 which is Intel based). And one of the reasons I got it was that when all was said and done it was on the lower end of price (however it's not cheap)

The reason I went with it is because you can listen to the radio (AM/FM) and CD's with the computer off. It has built in wireless NIC (meaning you don't have to use your PCI slot for it), comes with a 6-in-1 card reader, integrated video, sound, & network.

You can do MOST things with the remote, but not all (can't turn the PC on... :confused: ) Now I've looked around the MSI forums and there seems to be some issues, however there seems to be some not so bright people there too ;).

I haven't done any PVR yet because I just bought the Happause PVR 150-MCE yesterday, so I will be installing and playing with it this weekend.
 
My suggestions:
Stay away from AIW cards, your using svideo so you don't want even less quailty when watching TV.
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-152-020&depa=0

While the onboard audio isn't the greatest (it's C-media and only 4.1) it does have svideo out using a GF4 MX IGP, overall the mobo is good enough. :) I'd probably replace the onboard sound with a Chaintech AV 710 since it has a good dedicated DAC for headphone out which is what you'd use to output to your TV anyways.

For a PVR work I would suggest getting a Huappauge PVR 150/150MCE or a 250/250MCE but you'll save some cash buying it as a hardware/software bundle. The PVR software I like is SageTV but you'll want to change the default STV (you can consider it a "theme") for another one.
This Bundle has a 250MCE, Sage 2.1 and a Snapstream remote all of which I have used and really like.
http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php?products_id=58

And I'd skip the Antec Minuet since it has heat related problems for most people.You might want to look at an Antec Aria but the PSU's fan is rather loud and should/needs to be replaced with a better/quiet fan.
 
The pundit system really seems to fit my bill. Couple of more questions...

Is 256 MB enough or should I go to 512 MB? Remember I will not be playing games. Just watching movies, watching TV, PVR, music, etc. I feel like 256 MB should be enough or am I missing something. Probally go with Corsair Value Select

Processor..I was looking at a 2.0 GHz celeron for ~$65. Is this enough to handle the load cause by dual 150/250's and potentially watching a movie at the same time? (all three could happen but it is slim)

In the pundit...is the DVD player included or is that my dime? If it is not...any recommendations on quite players.

Harddrive. Need a quiet harddrive...any recommendations? Any hints on black friday deals that might fit the bill?

Thanks in advance...you guys are great....loves this place.

-tReP
 
Remember that with an on-board video it takes memory from your main system memory. So 256 MIGHT be enough, but I would think 512 would be much better.

I also think a P4 over a Celeron would be much better at handling that load. But I have never personally cared for the "budget" CPU's from either Intel or AMD. (Probably just cause I'm a "snob")

For HDD... Seagate. Quiet, fast, and great warranty.
 
I can tell you from experience that 256 is workable but isn't optimal. You'll want 512 at the most.
 
384mb is the goal. 256 isn't quite enough (during DVD playback and TV while recording you can max out) but 512mb is more than you could ever use. So either 384 or 512, whichever is more practical dollar for dollar.
 
you can encode with a pvr 250 on a 500 mghz p2. That is the reason for getting the hauppauge hardware encoders. I can watch DVD's on my p3 733 laptop. I think a 2 ghz celeron will be fine if you are doing zero gaming and zero FFDshow.

for DVD playback, you would need to add a dvdrom. pioneer is supposed to be quiet I think, but to be honest with you I haven't really looked. I rarely use mine, so I didn't put much into it. I think I got a 20 oem Lite-on from newegg.

512 is what I would recommend as well.

hard drives, seagate or samsung.
 
didn't know that...seagate then. that's what I use anyway. I have a 160gb and a 40gb in my htpc. the HD noise is overpowered byt hte power supply for the most aprt. good drives. keep an eye out on outpost.com for some good deals on them. I got my 160gb for 99.99 and then a mail in rebate for $50. assuming I get my rebate, taht's $49.99 for 160gb of seagate goodness.
 
This is the board I have... I like it http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-138-234&depa=1

Specs :

Supported CPU: Socket A AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/Duron Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 IGP + MCP
FSB: 200/266/333/400MHz
RAM: 3x DIMM support Dual Channel DDR333/266/200 Max 3GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 8X, 3x PCI, 1x CNR
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,1xCOM,1xVGA,4xUSB2.0(Rear 2),1xLAN,1xGAME,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: Realtek ALC650 6-Channel AC97 CODEC
Onboard Video: GeForce4 MX
Onboard LAN: Realtek 8201BL 10/100Mbps
Form Factor: Micro ATX

Only problem is to use the svideo you have to make your own connector (square 4 pin to svid) I ended up buying a svideo cable from frontx and making that work.

Oh yeah cost.. ~62$ + 5 shipping
 
Okay...so here is where I am so far

-- Asus Pundit = $150 (don't need video card then), newegg
-- 2.0 GHz Celeron = $65, newegg
-- 512 MB Ram = $65 (why does ram always cost more than my proc...3rd time in a row), newegg
-- Samsung 16x DVD-Rom = $25 newegg
-- Seagate 160 GB Drive = $100 (does it matter between 2MB and 8MB buffer for this application?). Hopefully can find it for ~$50 around black friday.
-- 2x Hauppauge 150's = $120 from page computers. Hopefully the 500 comes out before I order....

Software??? (beryond TV, sage, meedio?)
Remote???




Windows XP (still have 2 spare licences floating around, had to love student discount)
 
looks good to me. as far as the 8mn, 2mb...the 8mb usually isn't too much more, so I would go witht hat.
 
Trepidati0n said:
Okay...so here is where I am so far

-- Asus Pundit = $150 (don't need video card then), newegg
Click to expand...
That looks like a nice little system! Maybe a touch on the expensive side for what you get, but I like the looks of it.
-- 2.0 GHz Celeron = $65, newegg
Click to expand...
Not a bad price, you might contact this guy asap, he has a couple celey 2.0's for $38 shipped.
-- 512 MB Ram = $65 (why does ram always cost more than my proc...3rd time in a row), newegg
Click to expand...
Sounds good
-- Samsung 16x DVD-Rom = $25 newegg
Click to expand...
Check out Toshiba, samsung drives are hit and miss with noise levels
-- Seagate 160 GB Drive = $100 (does it matter between 2MB and 8MB buffer for this application?). Hopefully can find it for ~$50 around black friday.
Click to expand...
Good luck waiting in line :p You might just see what pops up on fatwallet for non BF deals
-- 2x Hauppauge 150's = $120 from page computers. Hopefully the 500 comes out before I order....
Click to expand...
Good choice
Software??? (beryond TV, sage, meedio?)
Click to expand...
Too lazy to list :p Start with SageTV if you can get a good deal on it
Remote???
Click to expand...
Build your own adapter or buy a usb-uirt if you have cash to blow so that you can use a normal universal remote, I havent seen a "made for pc" remote yet that I like.
Windows XP (still have 2 spare licences floating around, had to love student discount)
Click to expand...

XP of any flavor will work great
 
TED said:
This is the board I have... I like it http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-138-234&depa=1

Specs :

Supported CPU: Socket A AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/Duron Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 IGP + MCP
FSB: 200/266/333/400MHz
RAM: 3x DIMM support Dual Channel DDR333/266/200 Max 3GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 8X, 3x PCI, 1x CNR
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,1xCOM,1xVGA,4xUSB2.0(Rear 2),1xLAN,1xGAME,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: Realtek ALC650 6-Channel AC97 CODEC
Onboard Video: GeForce4 MX
Onboard LAN: Realtek 8201BL 10/100Mbps
Form Factor: Micro ATX

Only problem is to use the svideo you have to make your own connector (square 4 pin to svid) I ended up buying a svideo cable from frontx and making that work.

Oh yeah cost.. ~62$ + 5 shipping
Click to expand...

Does it sleep in S3 (suspend to ram)? Can you check for me pleas? :eek: I want to know if v7.0 or v7.2 sleep ok (seems that most boards out there are 7+)
 
Why not just get a modded xbox for that room, and a pvr 250 for your computer?

You could then attach the modded xbox to a share on your workstation, or several workstations with all your recorded television shows on it.

You still could play DVD's
You stil can watch movies (avi, mpeg 1 2 4, divx, xvid...)

Just a suggestion.
 
Treyshadow said:
Why not just get a modded xbox for that room, and a pvr 250 for your computer?

You could then attach the modded xbox to a share on your workstation, or several workstations with all your recorded television shows on it.

You still could play DVD's
You stil can watch movies (avi, mpeg 1 2 4, divx, xvid...)

Just a suggestion.
Click to expand...

I started out with that idea - my xbox is now collecting dust and my HTPC is used several times a day ;)

It all comes down to practicality. The xbox just isn't a good media center.
 
yeah, a modded xbox is pretty much a file viewer. Plus they are noisy as hell and get petty hot. but for the money, it would make a decent video player in a room otehr than the bedroom. office, living room, etc. I am still waiting for a sub 200 networked DVD player with a nice GUI.
 
well... I dont know exactly what S3 and all that does because I normally keep my systems on 24/7 (dont pay power bills :D) anyway I run 2k pro. I enabled S3 in the bios. under power on the screensaver tab I told it to standby after 1 minute... also told it to go into standby with the power button. After 1 minute or I hit the power button everything shuts off(in about 1-2 secs), and when I hit the power button again it comes back on for me to log in (like i locked the comp) in about 1-2secs... Pretty cool feature, but I dont know if its what you are looking for.

TED
 
TED said:
well... I dont know exactly what S3 and all that does because I normally keep my systems on 24/7 (dont pay power bills :D) anyway I run 2k pro. I enabled S3 in the bios. under power on the screensaver tab I told it to standby after 1 minute... also told it to go into standby with the power button. After 1 minute or I hit the power button everything shuts off(in about 1-2 secs), and when I hit the power button again it comes back on for me to log in (like i locked the comp) in about 1-2secs... Pretty cool feature, but I dont know if its what you are looking for.

TED
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I wanted to know :) What version is your board?
 
Well... I opened up my case (glad I have thumbscrews..) but I could not find a rev number(small case)... I bought it from newegg about a year ago if that helps.

TED
 
The version number should be close by the name on the board, on my Asus it has the boards name and version number under the AGP slot on my other Asus the name and version number were by the IDE inputs.
 
TED said:
Well... I opened up my case (glad I have thumbscrews..) but I could not find a rev number(small case)... I bought it from newegg about a year ago if that helps.

TED
Click to expand...

It's to the right of the northbridge, it says M7NCG 400 and then right after that is the version.
 
No wonder I couldnt find it... My Dvd-rom covers that whole section. Its Rev 1.0

TED
 
It looks like PC Alcoholics is going to offer MCE2005 w/ Hauppauge 150 combos. My guess is the price will drop ~$50 from the 250 combo's. When I do the totals it only costs about $10 to go from sageTV + XP to MCE2005 for equivalent equip..

1. Is there a distinct set of advantages of SageTV over MCE2005 that will make it more palatable and worth the effort to get the system up and running? Not having both side by side to compare is where I need the wonderful people here. The proprietary MPEG2 format doesn't bug me...so don't use that as an argument please.

2. Is MCE2005 compatible with the pundit? Remember I won't have a stand alone video card (both PCI slots will be for the 2x 150's)

Getting closer....just need to tie up loose ends. Don't want to have to fork out more cash after I perceive to be done ;) Thanks in advance.

-tReP
 
TED said:
This is the board I have... I like it http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-138-234&depa=1

Specs :

Supported CPU: Socket A AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/Duron Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 IGP + MCP
FSB: 200/266/333/400MHz
RAM: 3x DIMM support Dual Channel DDR333/266/200 Max 3GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 8X, 3x PCI, 1x CNR
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,1xCOM,1xVGA,4xUSB2.0(Rear 2),1xLAN,1xGAME,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: Realtek ALC650 6-Channel AC97 CODEC
Onboard Video: GeForce4 MX
Onboard LAN: Realtek 8201BL 10/100Mbps
Form Factor: Micro ATX

Only problem is to use the svideo you have to make your own connector (square 4 pin to svid) I ended up buying a svideo cable from frontx and making that work.

Oh yeah cost.. ~62$ + 5 shipping
Click to expand...

Ted...I just realized what you listed...OMG...you have a case you recommend to go with this...Do you have a recommended ATX case? Making a s-video cable is trivial to me (electrical engineer).

The pundit is still in the running...but damn...my friend is looking to copy what I do but needs eventual HD ability..this would cover it with a high end XP. Very nice toy. Thanks again.

-tReP
 
Lol, glad to help

anyway this is the case I am currently using.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-190-017&depa=1

Its not bad, looks cool and the lcd is neat, its actually a fan controller as well (has ~5 fan speeds that it goes through depending on temp) Only annoyances(sp) is the finish scratches easily and its a little louder than I would like, and it does an annoying beep everytime its turned on(case not mb) oh yeah, i got it when it was on sale for ~40
oh and the sound header plugs straight into the MB(dont even remember if I had to switch any pins) Be sure to get an 80mm for the front... and dont plug the heatsink into the lcd's fan controller (just in case, ya know?) and If i remember correctly 3dgameman did a vid review of this a year or so ago.

If money wasnt an option I would have bought one of those aluminum "home theatre" type cases... but they are over 200$ (link for those who drool)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-126-139&depa=1

But the best bet is just find one that you like apearance wise, just be sure it has good cooling and a decent power supply.

Right now for a cheap case I am liking this one
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-126-132&depa=1
but you would have to mod it for better cooling. 1 60mm isnt nearly enough.

oh and stay away from the POWMAX cases (ie this)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-145-003&depa=1
ive read some bad reviews about them, and they are supposed to be sharp on the inside too.

TED

PS, please excuse the bad spelling :p
 
So Ted,

So you mean that new case you like + PS is here at newegg for under $40. Seem like a good deal

Right now this case...even though has less functionality at the pundit seems to fit the bill and also seem like less things to go wrong. And you positive I can easily wire the svideo from the board with a 4 pin header that exists?

-tReP
 
My mobo has the 4 pin header for svid, and the manufaturer's site still states that it has it. So yeah should be no problem, simple 4 pin (square orientation) header to hook up to.

That case should do fine, but I would mod it to take a couple more 60mm where those odd grills are in the back for more cooling, 2 60mm's for an amd isnt that much.

But this is a case, If I were you I would look around for the best deal, and one that fits me personally. Dont just take my opinion :p read some reviews, do some comparison shopping and whatnot :D

TED
 
I got a lead on a 9200SE card with S-video/DVI/VGA for $30 (member by some weird stroke of luck lives within walking distance of my job). Woud this be better than the IGP from the nF2 chipset?

-tReP
 
Trepidati0n said:
I got a lead on a 9200SE card with S-video/DVI/VGA for $30 (member by some weird stroke of luck lives within walking distance of my job). Woud this be better than the IGP from the nF2 chipset?

-tReP
Click to expand...
Would be a step back, ATi's SE cards have horrible tv out (svideo) but if your going DVI or VGA it might be worth it for $20.
 
Whew...saved me a nightmare their. Looks like i'm gonna go for that $77 chaintech w/ the built in s-video connector. I know of the $60 one mentioned...just having to buy a $8 cable and then try and cobble it in doesn't make much sense to me =/

However...still gonna snag a 200 GB maxtor for $80 :)

-tReP
 
Trepidati0n said:
Whew...saved me a nightmare their. Looks like i'm gonna go for that $77 chaintech w/ the built in s-video connector. I know of the $60 one mentioned...just having to buy a $8 cable and then try and cobble it in doesn't make much sense to me =/

However...still gonna snag a 200 GB maxtor for $80 :)

-tReP
Click to expand...
The sound on the chaintech ought to be...hmm, "better than mediocre" if you ever decide to test it. Its a ac97/cmedia 6ch combo and ought to have more oomph than the typical ac97/realtek combo. There is also the possibility of a future cmedia driver that enables software dolby ac3 encoding. Contrary to MFR claims, there is no cmedia driver that can currently do it.

just something to keep in mind ;)
 
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