New HTPC card?

Modred189

Modred189

Can't Read the OP
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May 24, 2006
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I am looking for a new HTPC card. Maybe.

RIght now I have a PNY 9800GT PE. Up until this point it has been a great card. Powerful, quiet (if not very cool running) and does not require any power cables. However, I am running into 2 limitations.
1- Lacks HDMI. Right now I am using a DVI-HDMI adapter, but as I understand it, it will not pass audio through the dvi...?
2- It's starting to lack in the horsepower department. Newer driving games, the only games I play on the TV, are starting to tax the system pretty heavily.

So I'm looking for a reaplacement that is the modern version of the same thing. Requirements:
1- Does not require a power cable. I have a 550w psu, but it's modular and I cannot find the cables.:eek:
2- shorter. This is going into a Silverstone SUGO 2b. Anything much longer than the existing card is not going to fit. I unfortunately cannot find the dimensions for this card anywhere, but it is not a long card by any means. The board is a MATX intel board (DG33tl) and the card cannot be as long as the mobo. Any power cords will need to come from the side, not the end of the card.
2.5- Single slot preferred, but I can live with a double slot.
3- Hdmi port
4- Horsepower upgrade. It needs to be faster than the existing card, obviously.

WHile I would PREFER Nvidia, I am open to AMD suggestions as well. No particular brand loyalties in terms of who built the card, but a major company would be preferred.

For reference, here is a shot of the case with some stuff installed:
DSC00044.jpg

The card in front is an old ATi TV Wonder card, and the brass heatsink behind it is an ATI 3450, I believe.

EDIT: It has 3gb of ram and a Q6600 cpu. 2 1tb Greenpowers
Edit2- the board is apparently 9.6"X9.6", so the card would need to be shorter than that. Call it 9"
 
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The most powerful you are going to get is a 7750. The good news is that pretty much all of them come with an hdmi out. Its not going to be a HUGE difference over your 8800gt, but its as good as you are going to get without external power. If you want to stick with Nvidia, you are going to have to get a gt640 which is probably a downgrade from your 8800gt.
 
lloose said:
The most powerful you are going to get is a 7750. The good news is that pretty much all of them come with an hdmi out. Its not going to be a HUGE difference over your 8800gt, but its as good as you are going to get without external power. If you want to stick with Nvidia, you are going to have to get a gt640 which is probably a downgrade from your 8800gt.
Click to expand...
This is what kind of boggles my mind... that what, 5 years has passed and the horsepower of this type card has not appreciably increased. How many new architecture, revisions and die shrinks, and nothing has really changed in terms of capability, just efficiency.
 
Modred189 said:
This is what kind of boggles my mind... that what, 5 years has passed and the horsepower of this type card has not appreciably increased. How many new architecture, revisions and die shrinks, and nothing has really changed in terms of capability, just efficiency.
Click to expand...

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13479/1

8800 GT was launched in Q4 2007 at the USD 200 - 250 price point. Die size was a huge 324 sq mm with a 256 bit memory bus and 57.6 GB/s bandwidth. For comparison HD 4870 die size was 260 sq mm, HD 5870 die size was 334 sq mm, HD 6970 was 390 sq mm and HD 7970 is 365 sq mm. The HD 7750 chip has a 123 sq mm die size with a 128 bit memory bus and 73.6 Gb/s bandwidth and was launched at USD 110 and currently sells at USD 100 or even lesser. So you see they are completely different segments. 8800 GT was mid range while HD 7700 is entry level. 8800 GT successors from Nvidia are Geforce GTS 250, GTX 460, GTX 560 Ti. And all of them sold at USD 200 - 250.

Also the problem is the newer features added for DX11 like tesselation take die space and have no effect on pure shader performance. Also compute performance is quite important today. So the newer architectures like HD 7700 devote die resources to cache and other architectural features which improve compute or GPGPU performance. Also the price point and die size compulsions do not allow for a 256 bit memory bus or a larger chip atleast as of today in the USD 100 price segment.
 
raghu78 said:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13479/1

8800 GT was launched in Q4 2007 at the USD 200 - 250 price point. Die size was a huge 324 sq mm with a 256 bit memory bus and 57.6 GB/s bandwidth. For comparison HD 4870 die size was 260 sq mm, HD 5870 die size was 334 sq mm, HD 6970 was 390 sq mm and HD 7970 is 365 sq mm. The HD 7750 chip has a 123 sq mm die size with a 128 bit memory bus and 73.6 Gb/s bandwidth and was launched at USD 110 and currently sells at USD 100 or even lesser. So you see they are completely different segments. 8800 GT was mid range while HD 7700 is entry level. 8800 GT successors from Nvidia are Geforce GTS 250, GTX 460, GTX 560 Ti. And all of them sold at USD 200 - 250.

Also the problem is the newer features added for DX11 like tesselation take die space and have no effect on pure shader performance. Also compute performance is quite important today. So the newer architectures like HD 7700 devote die resources to cache and other architectural features which improve compute or GPGPU performance. Also the price point and die size compulsions do not allow for a 256 bit memory bus or a larger chip atleast as of today in the USD 100 price segment.
Click to expand...

On top of this the 8800gt was no slouch. It was very powerful for its time (and still does ok). At the time of release it was almost top of the line with only the gtx and ultra models edging it out slightly.

To add to this you don't have a 6 pin. If you did, your options open up greatly.
 
raghu78 said:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13479/1

8800 GT was launched in Q4 2007 at the USD 200 - 250 price point. Die size was a huge 324 sq mm with a 256 bit memory bus and 57.6 GB/s bandwidth. For comparison HD 4870 die size was 260 sq mm, HD 5870 die size was 334 sq mm, HD 6970 was 390 sq mm and HD 7970 is 365 sq mm. The HD 7750 chip has a 123 sq mm die size with a 128 bit memory bus and 73.6 Gb/s bandwidth and was launched at USD 110 and currently sells at USD 100 or even lesser. So you see they are completely different segments. 8800 GT was mid range while HD 7700 is entry level. 8800 GT successors from Nvidia are Geforce GTS 250, GTX 460, GTX 560 Ti. And all of them sold at USD 200 - 250.

Also the problem is the newer features added for DX11 like tesselation take die space and have no effect on pure shader performance. Also compute performance is quite important today. So the newer architectures like HD 7700 devote die resources to cache and other architectural features which improve compute or GPGPU performance. Also the price point and die size compulsions do not allow for a 256 bit memory bus or a larger chip atleast as of today in the USD 100 price segment.
Click to expand...
WHile all that is true, there should be SOME trickle down in performance. I mean, the high end has been increasing by leaps and bounds, but 5 years later, a low-powered (note the PE designation, and that this is a 9800.) lower-mid range card has no comparable upgrade. I understand what you are saying, but still... one would think that in such time, considering the advances in manufacturing processes, the benefits of yesterday's higher end cards would be found in today's lower end cards.
 
Modred189 said:
WHile all that is true, there should be SOME trickle down in performance. I mean, the high end has been increasing by leaps and bounds, but 5 years later, a low-powered (note the PE designation, and that this is a 9800.) lower-mid range card has no comparable upgrade. I understand what you are saying, but still... one would think that in such time, considering the advances in manufacturing processes, the benefits of yesterday's higher end cards would be found in today's lower end cards.
Click to expand...

9800 GT PE came much later in late Q1 2009 on a 55nm process and was more like a specially binned 9800GT chip for low power use without external PCI-E power requirements. so thats more like 3 years and a quarter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_9_Series#GeForce_9800_GT

http://www.techpowerup.com/88466/Zotac-Introduces-Energy-Efficient-GeForce-9800-GT-ECO.html

I think the next generation of chips on a mature 28nm process would give a decent perf improvement over a 9800 GT PE.

But a doubling of performance over a 9800 GT PE is not possible unless memory bus technology improves so that even with small bus width they are able to get huge bandwidth. Essentially they need a doubling of bandwidth . So when a 128 bit bus provides 128 GB/s you will see those huge perf jumps. I think GDDR6 is badly needed. If it happens in 2014 you could see a small 20nm chip with a 128 bit bus provide double the performance of the venerable 8800 GT.

And as said above a single 6 pin power connector could open up huge options. Can your case fit a HD 7850 like the sapphire HD 7850 with dimensions 8.27" x 4.13" x 1.38"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102986
 
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raghu78 said:
9800 GT PE came much later in late Q1 2009 on a 55nm process and was more like a specially binned 9800GT chip for low power use without external PCI-E power requirements. so thats more like 3 years and a quarter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_9_Series#GeForce_9800_GT

http://www.techpowerup.com/88466/Zotac-Introduces-Energy-Efficient-GeForce-9800-GT-ECO.html

I think the next generation of chips on a mature 28nm process would give a decent perf improvement over a 9800 GT PE.

But a doubling of performance over a 9800 GT PE is not possible unless memory bus technology improves so that even with small bus width they are able to get huge bandwidth. Essentially they need a doubling of bandwidth . So when a 128 bit bus provides 128 GB/s you will see those huge perf jumps. I think GDDR6 is badly needed. If it happens in 2014 you could see a small 20nm chip with a 128 bit bus provide double the performance of the venerable 8800 GT.

And as said above a single 6 pin power connector could open up huge options. Can your case fit a HD 7850 like the sapphire HD 7850 with dimensions 8.27" x 4.13" x 1.38"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102986
Click to expand...
1- It would be iffy. The area right behind the card is the HDD bay, and it cannot be moved. So while the card itself would fit no problem, the issue is the 6pin plug. if there were a version of that card with a plug taht came out the side of teh card as opposed to the back, it would be fine I think.

2- Ok, so let's assume that I can find a cable for the 6pin. What would be the best option? that 7850? If so, that, in terms of price, is as high as I would want to go.
 
I would say that the 7850 would be an excellent option. It would be a pretty huge upgrade and still would work great with a 550w psu.
 
If you are going to stick with the Nvidia, I will say go with the GT 640, it's the lowest you can get and still using the newer Kepler core.

I do believe the Kepler is very power efficient and it should be capable to do great with HTPC while support decent amount of games.

It doesn't cost an arm and a leg neither.
 
jaychen said:
If you are going to stick with the Nvidia, I will say go with the GT 640, it's the lowest you can get and still using the newer Kepler core.

I do believe the Kepler is very power efficient and it should be capable to do great with HTPC while support decent amount of games.

It doesn't cost an arm and a leg neither.
Click to expand...

Yea, but will it be an upgrade? I'm not so sure...
 
Modred189 said:
1- It would be iffy. The area right behind the card is the HDD bay, and it cannot be moved. So while the card itself would fit no problem, the issue is the 6pin plug. if there were a version of that card with a plug taht came out the side of teh card as opposed to the back, it would be fine I think.

2- Ok, so let's assume that I can find a cable for the 6pin. What would be the best option? that 7850? If so, that, in terms of price, is as high as I would want to go.
Click to expand...

There is a XFX HD 7850 1 GB card for USD 210 after rebate. 1 GB is not enough if you want to play the latest games like BF3 at 1080p with Ultra 4x MSAA. You will run out of VRAM. Games like Skyrim with mods easily require more than 1 GB RAM. so think about it.

Dimensions are 7.8" x 4.4" x 1.5". nice heat pipe based cooler. compact card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150617

My advice would be to take the Sapphire HD 7850 2GB if it can fit in your case.

Alternatively you could wait for Nvidia GTX 660 launch in mid Aug. price USD 200 - 250.

http://www.techpowerup.com/169113/GeForce-GTX-660-Arrives-Mid-August-Report.html
 
Some companies are really good about sending you another cable(s) for you PSU. What brand/model is it? You may be able to get a replacement for free or very cheap and then open up lots of options. Crunching out those graphics takes some powah!
 
a 7750 is far more powerful than an 9800GT. and uses a fraction of the power. I played around with one for a while and i could play BF3 at medium settings 1920x1080.
i think it offers plenty of power for HTPC. MY HTPC is using the onboard video from a G630 and i have no issues with HD playback.
The newer cards do a lot more hardware decoding and this is a big improbvement over the 9800.
 
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