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New general purpose machine.

T

Tudz

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
7,434
G'day all, I'm looking to build a new PC for general use. Just whatever day to day tasks that require a computer basically. Currently all I have is my 4 year old netbook, Asus eeepc 1000H, which is proving insufficient for even basic things like voice chat and watching videos online (and even offline it struggles with 720p and higher).

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
General use. Web browsing, remoting to other PCs, GIMP image editing (current PC is way too slow when editing large images), watching movies, light gaming (if it can play the latest games at 720p to 1080p and medium settings I'll be happy, as long as it looks/runs better than a console :D)
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Low as possible, $450 or less.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
USA, PA, Allentown
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Ummm, everything? lol, CPU, RAM, Case, Video card, PSU, DVD drive... have I forgotten anything? I'll try and get away without a HDD, since I currently have an SSD and an external 640GB USB3 Samsung S2 drive
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Have a Crucial M4 128GB SSD.
6) Will you be overclocking?
Nope
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
Don't have one yet, probably 1920x1080
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Now, ASAP, currently using a 4yo netbook which barely plays youtube videos
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
USB3.0 would be nice.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, Win7 64 bit and 32 bit keys. However I only have the keys and need to find ISOs or disks (the keys are legit from work, but I can only download the ISOs from my office in Australia... I'm not in Australia right now). Also have a couple of XP keys kicking around, again, will need disks/ISOs though.

The plan, all from Newegg:

SAMSUNG DVD Burner SATA Model SH-224BB
$17.99

Antec NSK 4482 Black / Silver 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply
$89.99

PNY VCGGT6302XPB GeForce GT 630 2GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
$69.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
$39.99

GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3V LGA 1155 Intel B75 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel
$59.99

Intel Core i3-3225 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz LGA 1155 55W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I33225
$144.99

Subtotal: $422.94
Shipping: $12.89
Grand Total: $435.83

I'm basically tossing up between this and a prebuilt system. Do you guys think this will fulfill my needs? Have I forgotten anything I'll need? Do you have any other suggestions?

The mobo is currently $15 off, the case $20 off and the video card $10 off, also I picked things that had cheap or free shipping to keep the final cost low. I really don't know much about low end hardware, so I mostly just picked the stuff that looked cheap and had good discounts :D The CPU seems quick, only dual core, but from the one benchmark I saw, it's a fast dual core which should outdo my old i5 750 in tasks that don't use more than 2 cores anyway.
 
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Not a good setup really. That video card is way too weak even for 1080P gaming at low settings let alone medium settings. That case + PSU combo isn't a good choice since there are better choices for the PSU and case for $100. The CPU is way overpriced.

Now whether or not to build a PC or just get a prebuilt is largely dependent on two factors:

1) Whether or not you can legally grab a Windows 7 64bit ISO off the net somewhere. Would be pretty stupid to buy all the parts for the PC and not get the OS. I'd hit up the Operating Systems forum and ask them if there is anywhere you can grab Windows 7 64bit ISOs legally or whether or not you can actually use the keys you recieved in Australia here in the U.S. I know I know but you never know with Microsoft. Once you find an answer to your OS question in the Operating Systems, then come back and tell us whats up. That'll make it easier for us to to tell you to either go prebuilt or DIY.

2) How important light gaming really is to you. If you basically want 1080P gaming at medium settings, that pretty much points to DIY and a higher budget. How much of a higher budget is also dependent on factor 1 since you may have to purchase a OS key here.

And no 720P gaming on a 1080P monitor would look kinda crappy. Even crappier than some console games actually. You basically want to play games at the native resolution of the monitor these days.
 
Thanks for the comments. I'll have a think about it.

Danny Bui said:
Not a good setup really. That video card is way too weak even for 1080P gaming at low settings let alone medium settings. That case + PSU combo isn't a good choice since there are better choices for the PSU and case for $100. The CPU is way overpriced.
Click to expand...
What case/PSU would you recommend? I basically went with the cheapest Antec combo I saw since I'm untrusting of any other brands' which include PSUs in cheap case combos :)

Also what CPU for less money would be as good or better? I was thinking maybe an FX 6100, that's $25 cheaper, but I don't know much about the AMD stuff these days, I didn't spend a lot of time researching but there seemed to be as many recommendations for the i3 as there were for the FX 6100. The FX6100 seemed a bit of a waste because it is 6 core and frankly most the programs I use are lucky if they can take advantage of more than 1 thread at a time, so I figured the faster dual core would be better... but like I said, I don't know a lot about the cheaper end CPUs, so recommendations are welcome :D

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103962

Then I'd also need to find a motherboard.

1) Whether or not you can legally grab a Windows 7 64bit ISO off the net somewhere. Would be pretty stupid to buy all the parts for the PC and not get the OS. I'd hit up the Operating Systems forum and ask them if there is anywhere you can grab Windows 7 64bit ISOs legally or whether or not you can actually use the keys you recieved in Australia here in the U.S. I know I know but you never know with Microsoft. Once you find an answer to your OS question in the Operating Systems, then come back and tell us whats up. That'll make it easier for us to to tell you to either go prebuilt or DIY.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I can use my key. It's a genuine key, not a bulk key or OEM key or anything. I'm also pretty sure there are places to download ISO's of Windows. Hmmm, yeah, here seems good...

http://www.w7forums.com/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads-t12325.html

2) How important light gaming really is to you. If you basically want 1080P gaming at medium settings, that pretty much points to DIY and a higher budget. How much of a higher budget is also dependent on factor 1 since you may have to purchase a OS key here.
Click to expand...
Not massively important. I could step up to a 7750 I suppose, another $17...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131461

And no 720P gaming on a 1080P monitor would look kinda crappy. Even crappier than some console games actually. You basically want to play games at the native resolution of the monitor these days.
Click to expand...
Yeah, native resolution would be nice, but I'm not really willing to pay a lot more money to get native res. I still think it'll look better than most console games to play on medium and 720p. I remember my 8800GTS 320mb looked better than most console games :D The GT 630 is probably slightly better than that, and the 7750 should be a decent amount better.

I mostly need it to do my work, a bit of GIMP work, remoting in to other computers, watching movies and videos online, and if it can play games that'd be nice too :)
 
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Tudz said:
What case/PSU would you recommend? I basically went with the cheapest Antec combo I saw since I'm untrusting of any other brands' which include PSUs in cheap case combos :)
Click to expand...
I recommend the following the case and PSU setup:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$45 - Corsair 430CX V2 430W PSU
Tudz said:
Also what CPU for less money would be as good or better? I was thinking maybe an FX 6100, that's $25 cheaper, but I don't know much about the AMD stuff these days, I didn't spend a lot of time researching but there seemed to be as many recommendations for the i3 as there were for the FX 6100. The FX6100 seemed a bit of a waste because it is 6 core and frankly most the programs I use are lucky if they can take advantage of more than 1 thread at a time, so I figured the faster dual core would be better... but like I said, I don't know a lot about the cheaper end CPUs, so recommendations are welcome :D

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103962

Then I'd also need to find a motherboard.
Click to expand...
I really wouldn't recommend AMD in this case. The main reason why I say the Intel Core i3-3225 isn't a good choice is because $35 more gets you a quad-core Intel CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115089

However, if you want something cheaper, I recommend the cheaper Core i3 2120:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115077
Tudz said:
I'm pretty sure I can use my key. It's a genuine key, not a bulk key or OEM key or anything. I'm also pretty sure there are places to download ISO's of Windows. Hmmm, yeah, here seems good...

http://www.w7forums.com/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads-t12325.html
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
Tudz said:
Not massively important. I could step up to a 7750 I suppose, another $17...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131461
Click to expand...
Excellent choice. That has a far better bang for the buck than the GT 630.
 
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Cool, thanks, those look like good options. Yeah, I didn't research the CPU very well, even the 3220 is $15 cheaper and much the same processor with a lower end integrated graphics.

One thing I hadn't really considered was a cheaper case with a PSU, something like this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147082

From my experience most cases come with terrible PSUs, but given it's a pretty low end system and that CPU only has a TDP of, like, 55W, do you think I'd be able to get away with that? It's slightly more inconvenient that it doesn't have a front USB 3 like the NZXT and I'm sure it's not built as well, but it also doesn't need to do much either and will save me $40-50.
 
Tudz said:
One thing I hadn't really considered was a cheaper case with a PSU, something like this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147082

From my experience most cases come with terrible PSUs, but given it's a pretty low end system and that CPU only has a TDP of, like, 55W, do you think I'd be able to get away with that? It's slightly more inconvenient that it doesn't have a front USB 3 like the NZXT and I'm sure it's not built as well, but it also doesn't need to do much either and will save me $40-50.
Click to expand...
Listen to your experience. I wouldn't get that case/PSU combo at all especially if you have an add-on video card.
 
Tudz said:
Low as possible, $450 or less.[/B]
Click to expand...

this is impossible. lower your game expectations or get more money.

read the latest techreport amd a10 review for a little perspective on where integrated graphics are compared to cheap video cards. short answer for me is budget $100+ for a video card or don't get one. and it is not a stretch to say a $200 video card is 2x better than a $100 one.
 
Danny Bui said:
Listen to your experience. I wouldn't get that case/PSU combo at all especially if you have an add-on video card.
Click to expand...
Even with only a 7750? Looking at reviews it seems less than 50W peak power, the CPU is 55W TDP, I can't imagine the system as a whole pulling very much.
bAMtan2 said:
this is impossible. lower your game expectations or get more money.

read the latest techreport amd a10 review for a little perspective on where integrated graphics are compared to cheap video cards. short answer for me is budget $100+ for a video card or don't get one. and it is not a stretch to say a $200 video card is 2x better than a $100 one.
Click to expand...
Looking at the Anand review of the HD 4000 and HD 3000 shows them both well below a 5570.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/14

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to want 720 to 1080p medium settings in modern games at $450. That 7750 seems to be pulling up ok at 1080 and below....
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5541/amd-radeon-hd-7750-radeon-hd-7770-ghz-edition-review/17
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5541/amd-radeon-hd-7750-radeon-hd-7770-ghz-edition-review/15
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5541/amd-radeon-hd-7750-radeon-hd-7770-ghz-edition-review/12

Maybe I'll be disappointed, but gaming isn't even secondary, it's more like third or forth on the list of importance. Work first, watching videos second, GIMP third, gaming forth. I'm borderline not buying anything at all since I do have a nice desktop at work, it's just I would like to be able to do computing at home as well. :D
 
Tudz said:
Even with only a 7750? Looking at reviews it seems less than 50W peak power, the CPU is 55W TDP, I can't imagine the system as a whole pulling very much.
Click to expand...

That included PSU is so shitty, even a low-power system is at risk. $40 is well worth the extra cost for the setup I mentioned earlier due to the following reason:
1) Significantly higher quality PSU that has a significantly higher chance of not killing your PC
2) Significantly better cable management.
3) Extra 140mm Exhaust fan for better cooling
4) Front panel USB 3.0.

You're getting all of the above for $40 more. That's well worth it. It would both a stupid and bad idea to get that Rosewill case + PSU combo.
 
Ok, I'll go with the better case and PSU. Any thoughts on the mobo? I pretty much picked the cheapest one that came with an assortment of slots that actually seemed useful. I'm not expecting anything special out of it, just reliability!
 
I won't be adding more later as far as I can see. This is just a stopgap PC, I'll probably keep it for the next 10 months or so and then give it away or sell it if I can get anything for it (probably just give it away, lol).

Though I did see this bundle...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1083538

Which I think is the same RAM I was getting anyway, so for only $5 more that might be ok. I'm trying to avoid the "but it's only $X more" game, because I know that's how a $450 computer turns into a $650 computer :D But yeah, $5 isn't much, lol.
 
I'm thinking, maybe I should just give up on the idea of gaming. If I drop the video card, would the HD4000 on a i3-3225 be sufficient for 1920x1080 video watching and editing high resolution images? I have no idea what sort of resources GIMP uses when editing high res images unfortunately.

If I drop the video card completely that'll save me $90 and I'll just have to live with not gaming.
 
Ok, I was mostly back to thinking the 3225 because of the HD4000 if I weren't buying a dedicated video card, which from Anand's review is 60% faster than a HD3000 which I assume is faster again than the HD2000 that comes in the older i3's.

But at that price difference, I might as well just get the i3 2100 and see how the HD2000 goes and if it's not sufficient, get a discrete video card later. I'm desperate to go to bed now so I'll look at buying the TigerDirect CPU tomorrow, I've been up working all day and am absolutely exhausted. Hopefully the sale is still there tomorrow. If not, there's a Microcenter about an hour drive away, so I could theoretically go there and get a 3220 for $100.
 
Well, paid for it all now. Got everything but the video card. Cost $300 without a video card. Also paid $170 for an Asus IPS monitor from Newegg (I retardedly forgot to check Walmart for monitors, that probably would have been smarter, oh well). Managed to get the NZXT case for $45 with free shipping from Newegg.

So all told, $470 including a monitor. Not too bad. Also have about $40 worth of rebates, so hopefully it'll end up about $430 once all the rebates come through, and also got a $20 promotional gift voucher from newegg, so if I do decide to get a video card or another hard drive, I can put it toward that.
 
Got it all and put it together. It mostly seems to be running fine. The top fan on the case is a bit rattly, might just unplug it.

One annoying thing is my USB 3 external drive doesn't work on any of the USB 3 ports. No idea why. USB2 devices work when plugged in to USB3 ports, and the USB3 drive works when plugged in to a USB2 port, but the USB3 drive doesn't work when plugged in to a USB3 port. It worked on my old computer back in Australia, so no idea what the problem is. I've installed all the drivers off the mobo driver CD except for the Intel GMA driver (which I downloaded instead) and the ON/OFF charge thing.

Kind of frustruting because that's part of the reason I decided on this case, it was one of the cheaper ones that actually came with a front USB3 port.
 
Yeah I connected it properly. I figured out half the problem, even though it said it installed the USB3 driver from the CD it mustn't have done it properly, I downloaded the driver from the gigabyte website and the rear ports work fine now. The front port does work, but only barely, if I wiggle the connector it'll disconnect and reconnect the drive. There must be something faulty with the front USB port on the NZXT case. I can open it up and check that I properly connected it to the mobo, but I'm pretty sure I did and if that were the problem it shouldn't get better/worse by wiggling the cable external cable.
 
Well I've had a bit of a play with the computer now. It's seems to be running pretty well. I haven't really tried to play any intensive games, Darksiders 2 plays at low res, The Walking Dead plays at 1920x1080 with AA off, Dawn of War plays fine at 1920x1080, so it might not be worth the effort of actually buying a video card. I haven't tested GIMP yet, that'll be another interesting one, as I want to be able to edit high dpi images. I can try other games, but I can't think of anything I actually want to play. Could try BF3, but I have no intention of actually playing it so I don't want to waste the time installing Origin.

The main negatives so far are the front USB3 port that is dodgy. I have my external drive plugged in to it now, but if I accidently knock the plug even slightly, say when I'm plugging something in to the port next to it or plugging in my headphones, the drive will rapidly disconnect and reconnect, which isn't good if I were actually using files off the HDD at the time. It's really not worth the effort to send it back, maybe I can fix it, I dunno, it's just a bit annoying.

The other annoying thing is the fans in the NZXT case are a bit rattly. I'll probably just turn them all off, as the CPU is pretty low power anyway and the case has so many holes I reckon it can just naturally vent sufficiently even with the fans off. But it's a bit of a waste, I could have/should have bought a small form factor case instead. I hate buying cases, they're so expensive for what is basically a glorified box and yet they still manage to screw up simple things like this. Not that it's a bad case, I'm just thinking maybe I could have gotten something smaller and/or cheaper.

But I'm just ranting, overall the computer is working well. I just need to decide if I'll buy a video card. I'll also buy some hard drives, but I'll try and get my work to pay for the hard drives since when I'm done with this computer I'll be using the drives to transport my work data back to Australia.
 
Sorry that you ran into issues with the NZXT Source 210 Elite. Unfortunately your luck was bad in this case as most of the other people who have bought that case haven't run into the issues you're describing. Besides, $50 is really cheap for a case considering that many sub $50 cases are worse than the NZXT Source 210 Elite.
 
USB 3.0 drivers are a bitch sometimes. I'd look into that being your reason it doesn't work.
 
Danny Bui said:
Sorry that you ran into issues with the NZXT Source 210 Elite. Unfortunately your luck was bad in this case as most of the other people who have bought that case haven't run into the issues you're describing. Besides, $50 is really cheap for a case considering that many sub $50 cases are worse than the NZXT Source 210 Elite.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not a bad case for the price and not a bad recommendation, it's just in hindsight I probably should have gone for a small form factor case since there's nothing remotely high powered or adventurous in this PC and I'm guessing it's so low powered heat isn't going to be an issue. Since I have no ambition of upgrading this PC, there would have been no loss for going to a smaller case since the board is micro ATX anyway..

I think part of the fan noise is simply the fact the top fan is hard mounted and the roof of the case isn't brilliantly stiff, so it can just let the fan wobble and then that wobble is transferred to noise since it's hard mounted. Maybe I was unlucky or maybe it's just a cheap fan and it's definitely cheaply mounted.

The white and black looks cool, though I will make the recommendation that if you like things to be symmetrical, don't buy this case. I didn't realise in the images but the front (by design) is skewed, the white bit is cut at an angle and the front panel is thicker on the left than it is on the right. I don't really care about the aesthetics, but it was one thing I noticed when I first opened it that it looked a bit "not quite right" and even my housemate commented that he thought it looked weird, lol.

On the plus side, I think the HD2000 is actually not far off Xbox360 quality as it is, lol. Playing Darksiders 2 at low res and low settings looks blurry and ugly and is about 30fps, just like a console! :D

I tried out GIMP and it works pretty well with high dpi images, quicker than my PC at work.
Jeffman said:
USB 3.0 drivers are a bitch sometimes. I'd look into that being your reason it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it's the connector on the front of the case, as it just disconnects and reconnects when the device is slightly tapped, where as if I plug it in to the rear that doesn't happen. Even if USB2 devices are plugged in to that particular port they will be constantly connecting and disconnecting, so it's definitely not a problem with the drive itself.
 
Anyone know why my computer might be turning on by itself? It's rather annoying, I only noticed the other night because I hadn't turned it off for a while, but when I turn off the computer ("shut down", not sleep or anything), within 5 minutes it'll turn itself back on.

I've googled the problem and checked a bunch of things...

1. Checked BIOS power management settings and event wake up is turned off.

2. Checked "powercfg lastwake" in Windows and it says "Wake History Count - 0".

3. Checked Task Scheduler and I can't see any scheduled tasks which have run in the time frame of when the computer started itself.

Literally I'll turn the computer off, it'll be off, then I'll walk out of the room for a few minutes or go to bed and within 5 to 10 minutes it's turned itself on. It's a bit annoying because I have to turn it off from the back.
 
Remove the PC outside of the case and start it using a screwdriver. That'll rule out the case.
 
Ok, I removed the power switch pins and turned the computer on/off with a screwdriver, the thing still turned itself on by it's itself. I unplugged the network cable and that seemed to stop it turning on by itself, which makes me think wake on LAN is switched on... however I can find no such option in the bios and in device manager in windows 7 I turned off all the "allow this device to wake computer" settings.
 
Check the motherboard manual to see if there is WOL option.
 
I don't know why I didn't think of that :D

Amazingly, there's no mention of how to turn off Wake on LAN off by itself, but I happened across ErP (Energy-related Products), which when enabled lowers the standby power consumption by turning off features, one of which is WOL. It does turn off AC power cut recovery as well, but oh well, I can live without that.

Talk about a cryptic setting though, I had to google ErP to even find out what it stands for, who woulda thought a setting which is just an unexplained acronym with no description of what it actually is would stop the computer turning on by itself, lol.

Thanks for the tip.
 
No prob. Glad to see the issue is fixed. Though that ErP would have thrown me off a tad as well.
 
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