New general purpose build, help?

[NathanP2007]

Okay, so the purpose of this build is i have a desk thats empty that used to have a second PC there, that i sold. I now only have the one PC (mega gaming PC, see Signature). I dont LOVE owning two PC's but heres my reasoning for building another second computer: I have the SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime (6 tuner) DVR. It records shows directly to your PC's hard drive. So obviously, the PC has to be always on. I would prefer to turn off my gaming PC at night. Granted nowadays its power-saving modes (PSU, CPU, GPU) keep the wattage pretty low at idle, but still.
Second, my parents PC in the living room is having USB issues that are making me question how long it will be until the mobo or HDD die and they lose all their photo's and videos. So this second PC of mine would become the photo/video storage PC. They will give me their DSLR/Cameras/Files and they will be put on my second PC.

However i dont want to build some rinky Intel i3, $80 mobo and 300W PSU. I have been out of the loop since i built my gaming PC (see sig).
However i am inclined to think a pretty good setup that will have a long life span and be able to be used as a simple PC or gaming PC, would be to get a similar setup to what i have:

What I'm thinking:

Motherboard: $179, GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H LGA 1155
CPU: $219, Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge
SSD: Maybe the $139.99 SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD128BW 2.5" 128GB ?
GPU: None, will use backup GPU (GTS-250) or onboard i5 gpu.
PSU: Not sure, 600W ? Something that can run a GTX-670 some day possibly.
Case: Have an extra CM HAF.

Please feel free to update me on possible better options, maybe cheaper in price but offer the same or very similar features. My hope is to keep cost down but at the same time now lower quality or reliability. Still want to buy quality products.

My PSU brand knowledge has faded, i know i bought the best PSU but i dont need 1000W or Platinum for this PC. I have owned two PC-P&C power-supplies before and LOVED them. If their quality still stands in high regards this PSU caught my eye: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703038
($130 after MIR....PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 750W Modular Power Supply) Technically i think that Wattage could handle SLI GTX670's with some top end still unused. ( I know you dont want to max a PSU, theres a sweet spot you want).

(Related Question, is whatever the new Intel generation is upcoming, releasing soon? I forget what its called after Ivy Bridge)

(Related Question, i can get a "student" priced Windows 8 Pro for $69. I can get Windows 7 Pro for $139 on Newegg. Should i go with Windows 8 (never tried it before)? As a OS is it still as good/useable as Windows 7 but just has the crappy new GUI?

 

[Dangman]

If lower power is a serious goal, you might as well not bother with that second PC as the power difference between your planned setup and your current setup at idle is like 50W at most.

So is that lower power goal serious?

Some additional questions:
6) Will you be overclocking?
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? UEFI? etc.

 

[NathanP2007]

If lower power is a serious goal, you might as well not bother with that second PC as the power difference between your planned setup and your current setup at idle is like 50W at most.

So is that lower power goal serious?

Some additional questions:
6) Will you be overclocking?
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? UEFI? etc.

I get your point. I think people who truly build a low power PC are buying parts that are specifically low power. So i guess it isnt a serious goal.

6) I wont but from the looks of it the "K" is the same price as the non unlocked multiplier version. The possibility of Overclocking 3 years from now though when i give this PC to a GF as her first gaming PC, and the CPU could be OC'ed to get more FPS in games...then OC'ing is likely.

8) Well its not like i NEED it right now. So there isnt a specific time frame. If something worth waiting a month or two for is coming out, then i could see waiting.

9) This is the difficult question. RAID no, Firewire not really, SLI (Nvidia guy)...i dont like the idea of buying non SLI and wishing i had it 2-3 years from now. It depends on the price, if a non SLI board is like $50 cheaper than i'd probably go with it, but if the SLI version is $30 more, id pay the extra $30. USB 3.0 yes. SATA 6Gb/s Yes, eSATA yes, Onboard video? Wont my CPU have the onboard video? or you mean the ability to use it? If ability then yes, and UFEI? Not necessarily.

I just looked up the GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H to compare to the features on my UD5H. It definitely looks like i could get that UD3H for $140 and save $40 and lose just a few 6Gb/s SATA ports and some PCI ports i dont use on my UD5H anyways.

 

[Dangman]

6) I wont but from the looks of it the "K" is the same price as the non unlocked multiplier version. The possibility of Overclocking 3 years from now though when i give this PC to a GF as her first gaming PC, and the CPU could be OC'ed to get more FPS in games...then OC'ing is likely.

Actually, the price difference between the Core i5-3470 and the Core i5-3570K is $31 give or take. So is the ability to overclock worth the extra $31 even if yo don't need it?

8) Well its not like i NEED it right now. So there isnt a specific time frame. If something worth waiting a month or two for is coming out, then i could see waiting. .

Well Intel will apparently be releasing their new Haswell CPUs in June/July. So now would be the best time to build a system. Any longer and you might as well wait for Haswell.

I just looked up the GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H to compare to the features on my UD5H. It definitely looks like i could get that UD3H for $140 and save $40 and lose just a few 6Gb/s SATA ports and some PCI ports i dont use on my UD5H anyways.

Another option would be the MSI Z77A-GD55 which is at a whopping low price of $125:
$125 - MSI Z77A-GD55 Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard

Compare the [H] reviews of both motherbaord to see for yourself which would be the better choice:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/19/msi_z77agd55_lga_1155_motherboard_review/#.UVzGxJNJPdI
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/06/14/gigabyte_z77xud3h_motherboard_review/#.UVzGy5NJPdI

 

[tiraides]

How serious are you about overclocking or using SLI a year from now?

All you really need for your DVR task and your parent's file storage is a "rinky" Intel Core i3 processor, an $80 B75 or H77 motherboard, a 500GB or larger HDD, and a decent PSU of at least 400 watts (OK, the better PSU deals seem to start at that level).

Speaking of your parents, have they started to back up their important pictures and personal files? Have they considered a new computer separate from this build?

 

[NathanP2007]

Actually, the price difference between the Core i5-3470 and the Core i5-3570K is $31 give or take. So is the ability to overclock worth the extra $31 even if yo don't need it?


Well Intel will apparently be releasing their new Haswell CPUs in June/July. So now would be the best time to build a system. Any longer and you might as well wait for Haswell.


Another option would be the MSI Z77A-GD55 which is at a whopping low price of $125:
$125 - MSI Z77A-GD55 Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard

Compare the [H] reviews of both motherbaord to see for yourself which would be the better choice:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/19/msi_z77agd55_lga_1155_motherboard_review/#.UVzGxJNJPdI
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/06/14/gigabyte_z77xud3h_motherboard_review/#.UVzGy5NJPdI

Hmmm...that is a question i will really have to ponder. Cause like i said i can see it being useful in 1-3 years when PC games are even more needy of CPU resources and OC'ing could increase the frame rate...but as i just said thats 1-3 years from now. So if the 3470 is the 3570K without overclocking abilities, what is the 3570 (non K)?

Oh ok. Yeah i agree. If it was my main system i was building i'd wait for Haswell cause i'd want to have the newest generation. But for this second PC? An i5 current gen is good enough.

They are worth comparing up against each other. Looking at the specs, i lean towards the Gigabyte for the additional USB 3.0 ports, the additional SLI PCI-E 3.0 16x port, though the MSI has the better Intel Ethernet, i can live with the Atheros.

Something i forgot was RAM. I know i could go 4 GB and get another 4GB when i need it, but im somewhat inclined to just get the 8GB now. As for which brand...im not sure. My Samsung RAM has been perfect. But i forget where i bought it. But from what i remember it was on sale and pretty cheap. I just read it was Discontinued. So i have no idea what is some good quality RAM to buy.

How serious are you about overclocking or using SLI a year from now?

All you really need for your DVR task and your parent's file storage is a "rinky" Intel Core i3 processor, an $80 B75 or H77 motherboard, a 500GB or larger HDD, and a decent PSU of at least 400 watts (OK, the better PSU deals seem to start at that level).

Speaking of your parents, have they started to back up their important pictures and personal files? Have they considered a new computer separate from this build?

I no i know. The thing is i am boxed into the PC forever being just a file storage/DVR task/web machine. If i get the game-able i5, a feature rich (not AS rich as my current) mobo, SSD OS cause they are well priced, and a PSU that can handle a possible gaming GPU in the future (and PSU's are cheap). That way it can do everything i want, but also has a extended future and if i decide to move in into being a gaming rig for myself, a friend, a girl-friend..i dont own a i3 rig and need to build a whole new rig that can game. I will just use my i5 dvr/file storage/web machine and it will be more than capable.

 

[tiraides]

So if the 3470 is the 3570K without overclocking abilities, what is the 3570 (non K)?

Two hundred megahertz faster than the i5-3470. You won't notice the difference in everyday tasks.

I no i know. The thing is i am boxed into the PC forever being just a file storage/DVR task/web machine. If i get the game-able i5, a feature rich (not AS rich as my current) mobo, SSD OS cause they are well priced, and a PSU that can handle a possible gaming GPU in the future (and PSU's are cheap). That way it can do everything i want, but also has a extended future and if i decide to move in into being a gaming rig for myself, a friend, a girl-friend..i dont own a i3 rig and need to build a whole new rig that can game. I will just use my i5 dvr/file storage/web machine and it will be more than capable.

I understand that you want a multifunction machine now, but what's wrong with a cheap single purpose machine that you can upgrade later? If you really want something that's "future-proof," you're better off waiting for Haswell.

 

[NathanP2007]

Two hundred megahertz faster than the i5-3470. You won't notice the difference in everyday tasks.



I understand that you want a multifunction machine now, but what's wrong with a cheap single purpose machine that you can upgrade later? If you really want something that's "future-proof," you're better off waiting for Haswell.

Oh ok. Would i notice that in gaming? Just curious.

I would get a cheap single purpose machine like is in the living room, to replace it if that was in fact what i was doing...replacing the PC in the living room (aka i wasnt going to use it or own it). But because i am paying for this second PC in my room, id rather not get a i3, cheap mobo, 500Gb HDD, 4Gb RAM cheap machine. My biggest issue with them is they are a waste of money. If i get one of those, then lets say 2 years from now want to buy my GF her first gaming PC (or want a second gaming PC for my friends to come over and be able to play PC games with me) i will have to build a whole new one. Then i will either have a box full of cheap parts (i3, cheap mobo, etc) or a whole cheap single purpose PC sitting in a corner unplugged doing nothing but take up space.

If i get a i5, and pay a bit more for quality and features, i wont run into having to part out a PC (which i dont enjoy, selling and shipping is a hassle to me). Iv got a HAF gaming case, iv got 2 monitors on my desk, iv got a GPU, im not tight on money.

As for waiting for Haswell. My concern with waiting would be i'd wait, they would come out, and the equivalent of the i5 i want will be more expensive, and possibly sell out and id have to wait even longer. And i am curious will the i5 3750K Haswell equivalent be THAT much better? Also i assume there will need to be Haswell compatible motherboards, which will be more expensive than the current Z77 boards.

 

[Dangman]

Oh ok. Yeah i agree. If it was my main system i was building i'd wait for Haswell cause i'd want to have the newest generation. But for this second PC? An i5 current gen is good enough.

Just to be clear, with 100& certainty, you will be buying the parts this month?

They are worth comparing up against each other. Looking at the specs, i lean towards the Gigabyte for the additional USB 3.0 ports, the additional SLI PCI-E 3.0 16x port, though the MSI has the better Intel Ethernet, i can live with the Atheros.

Read the HardOCP reviews though. The specs don't tell the whole story.

Something i forgot was RAM. I know i could go 4 GB and get another 4GB when i need it, but im somewhat inclined to just get the 8GB now. As for which brand...im not sure. My Samsung RAM has been perfect. But i forget where i bought it. But from what i remember it was on sale and pretty cheap. I just read it was Discontinued. So i have no idea what is some good quality RAM to buy.

Go for 8GB of RAM anyway. I recommend this budget RAM if you were buying today:
$45 - Corsair CMV8GX3M1A1333C9 8GB DDR3 1333 RAM

I no i know. The thing is i am boxed into the PC forever being just a file storage/DVR task/web machine. If i get the game-able i5, a feature rich (not AS rich as my current) mobo, SSD OS cause they are well priced, and a PSU that can handle a possible gaming GPU in the future (and PSU's are cheap). That way it can do everything i want, but also has a extended future and if i decide to move in into being a gaming rig for myself, a friend, a girl-friend..i dont own a i3 rig and need to build a whole new rig that can game. I will just use my i5 dvr/file storage/web machine and it will be more than capable.

Tiraides makes a good point: if you were really serious about the potential future usage of this PC, you'd wait for Haswell. Not to mention that the Core i3 is no slouch when it comes to games, even multi-threaded games since the Core i3 still has HT.

Oh ok. Would i notice that in gaming? Just curious.

Nope.

 

[NathanP2007]

Danny: Any thoughts on one of the biggest issues with waiting for Haswell that i have, the pricing of w/e the i5 equivalent is vs said i5 today? And identical question regarding the Z77 mobo cost vs a Haswell mobo with the same feature set? Now i get they wouldnt be identical in pricing, obviously Haswell is better/brings improvements so it would be more expensive. But theres also the fact that Z77/Intel Gen. 3 is at the end of its cycle so it has gotten the cheapest it will be, and when Haswell starts its cycle it will be at the most expensive it will be.

 

[Dangman]

I would get a cheap single purpose machine like is in the living room, to replace it if that was in fact what i was doing...replacing the PC in the living room (aka i wasnt going to use it or own it). But because i am paying for this second PC in my room, id rather not get a i3, cheap mobo, 500Gb HDD, 4Gb RAM cheap machine. My biggest issue with them is they are a waste of money. If i get one of those, then lets say 2 years from now want to buy my GF her first gaming PC (or want a second gaming PC for my friends to come over and be able to play PC games with me) i will have to build a whole new one. Then i will either have a box full of cheap parts (i3, cheap mobo, etc) or a whole cheap single purpose PC sitting in a corner unplugged doing nothing but take up space.

These are hypotheticals aren't they? They're not scenarios that are actually happening now? Has situations similar to to ones you've mentioned come up in the past?

Again key problem: You're assuming that the Core i3 is gonna be horrible for gaming. It won't be: The only major difference between the Core i3 3220 and the Core i5 3470 are the two extra cores. Even then the Core i3's HT allows it to maintain healthy performance in multi-threaded usage.

Danny: Any thoughts on one of the biggest issues with waiting for Haswell that i have, the pricing of w/e the i5 equivalent is vs said i5 today? And identical question regarding the Z77 mobo cost vs a Haswell mobo with the same feature set? Now i get they wouldnt be identical in pricing, obviously Haswell is better/brings improvements so it would be more expensive. But theres also the fact that Z77/Intel Gen. 3 is at the end of its cycle so it has gotten the cheapest it will be, and when Haswell starts its cycle it will be at the most expensive it will be.

Intel generally releases their new CPUs at or around the price point of their older CPUs. As for the performance differences between Haswell and IvyBridge, no solid info just yet. Early rumors places the difference to be as high as 20% while some are as low as 5%. But what is known is that Haswell will use less power and will have even faster onboard graphics. As for the motherboard pricing, you do have a point there: the initial launch prices for the mobos may be higher than current Intel IB related motherboards. However more than likely those mobos will come with extra features that'll justify their initial higher price. This is Intel we're talking about: Their newer mobos will introduce new features to further increase the chance of them being sold.

Not to mention that you just said this:

im not tight on money.

So I'm not sure why a $20 to $40 price initial price hike/increase/overpay would be an issue for you .

EDIT: You haven't answered the question in my previous post.

 

[NathanP2007]

These are hypotheticals aren't they? They're not scenarios that are actually happening now? Has situations similar to to ones you've mentioned come up in the past?

Again key problem: You're assuming that the Core i3 is gonna be horrible for gaming. It won't be: The only major difference between the Core i3 3220 and the Core i5 3470 are the two extra cores. Even then the Core i3's HT allows it to maintain healthy performance in multi-threaded usage.


Intel generally releases their new CPUs at or around the price point of their older CPUs. As for the performance differences between Haswell and IvyBridge, no solid info just yet. Early rumors places the difference to be as high as 20% while some are as low as 5%. But what is known is that Haswell will use less power and will have even faster onboard graphics. As for the motherboard pricing, you do have a point there: the initial launch prices for the mobos may be higher than current Intel IB related motherboards. However more than likely those mobos will come with extra features that'll justify their initial higher price. This is Intel we're talking about: Their newer mobos will introduce new features to further increase the chance of them being sold.

Not to mention that you just said this:

So I'm not sure why a $20 to $40 price initial price hike/increase/overpay would be an issue for you .

EDIT: You haven't answered the question in my previous post.

Yes they are hypothetical's but they are probable ones. In the past what has happened is i had my younger brother and his best friend were the only people into PC gaming, so my main PC (Q9550) i sold to my brothers best friend (so i was lucky to have someone to sell it to in person without parting it out, however i took a "friends discount" hit) and my backup PC (E5200) i sold to my brother (same thing, lucky but took a hit). Now i dont have anyone to sell too except parting them out and selling them on here or ebay, and it might be a bit lazy but the paypal-ing and boxing and shipping gets annoying, and having extra PC parts laying around in their boxes that you paid $ for is annoying too.

True you have a point.

Ok you have a point there as well. Im liking the idea of waiting for Haswell more.

My answer is that its just something thats been lightly in the back of my mind, and today when dealing with the living room PC's USB problems and my mother worried shes one HDD failure away from losing all her pictures, it moved the having a second PC thought forward in my conscious thinking. Its not that the PC is near death and i need the new computer NOW, i can wait...basically as long as i want. So to answer your question no i dont have to have it this month. It does seem smart to wait the 1-2 more months until Haswell is released.

 

[Dangman]

Then wait till Haswell. If you're gonna go overkill, at least get the latest overkill

 

[NathanP2007]

Then wait till Haswell. If you're gonna go overkill, at least get the latest overkill

Haha yeah, though i wouldnt call it over kill. Maybe "slightly overkill" but i do regret not getting a i5 instead of my i7. My i7 is true overkill (i dont video/picture edit at all) just game and web. Is there anything else coming with Haswell? DDR4? anything?

Btw if you or anyone else can answer the Windows 8 vs 7 question that would be great. (It was basically is Windows 8 just 7 with the new [annoying] GUI? Theres no reason if i can get 8 Pro cheaper than 7 Pro that i should go with 7?)

 

[Dangman]

Is there anything else coming with Haswell? DDR4? anything?

DDR4 will not be coming with Haswell. As for other features, don't know to be honest. Intel is keeping mum about things.

Btw if you or anyone else can answer the Windows 8 vs 7 question that would be great. (It was basically is Windows 8 just 7 with the new [annoying] GUI? Theres no reason if i can get 8 Pro cheaper than 7 Pro that i should go with 7?)

Windows 8 does have some improvements over Windows 7 but the GUI is the big issue.

 

[NathanP2007]

DDR4 will not be coming with Haswell. As for other features, don't know to be honest. Intel is keeping mum about things.

Windows 8 does have some improvements over Windows 7 but the GUI is the big issue.

Oh ok, thanks. Ok well i just want to make sure i wont have any gaming issues or anything. As long as the only real difference is the GUI, then i will buy it. Heck apparently theres apps to give back the Start button and always bypass the Tile screen. (Called Start8)

 

[notarat]

Okay, so the purpose of this build is i have a desk thats empty that used to have a second PC there, that i sold. I now only have the one PC (mega gaming PC, see Signature). I dont LOVE owning two PC's but heres my reasoning for building another second computer..(SNIP)

I didn't see RAM listed so you either have some or forgot to mention it. If you forgot, I included a link

Your parts came to $657 with RAM (cause I wasn't sure if you forgot so I chose good ram and added that cost to your total and the total below)

For a general purpose computer, your parts are wayyyyy overkill, especially if you want to leave it on 24/7

I'd get the following if I were just building a genpurp box

MSI FM2-A85XA-G65 $104 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130663 Pic of board -

AMD A8 5500 $104 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113288
$100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188
Corsair CX600M $80 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139048
$119 Corsair Vengeance Low Profile DDR3 1600 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233367

$507 ($150 cheaper than your parts + RAM)

I chose low profile RAM in case you have a large heatsink that may impinge on the RAM slots.

I use that mother board in my secondary box with an A10 5800 and a MSI 7770 and I think it's great. It's got a ton of features and is rock-solid stable.

I use Win 8 on it with $5 spent for Star Dock's "Start 8" program, which turns Windows 8's UI into a Windows 7 UI.

It's definitely no "powerhouse" but it scores over 1200 in Valley at 1920x1200 at high settings.

Yeah...I know that sucks compared to a true gaming machine...but this isn't a gaming box I'm talking about though and the extra $150 can net him a nice upgrade to any particular component I listed. Logitech makes a nice DiNovo Edge Bluetooth keyboard for about $150 (I have one and I like it a lot)


Additional features I like about my AMD box is that I can also run Android Apps on it, It can do Crossfire (board+integrated) or 2 cards in crossfire or 2 nVidia cards in SLI, It's got 8 SATA 6 channels, plenty of USB 2 ports to connect stuff, USB 3 connector on the board and on the backplate, RAID 0/1/5/10, it has Super Charger, and probably the best integrated 8 channel sound I've heard.

 

[NathanP2007]

notarat:
I totally see exactly what your saying. And your right. Maybe if i was paying bills that made money tighter than i would totally go with a similar or identical build to say $150 which is not chump change. However with everything i buy in life i have no issue paying a bit more for quality. (Not that the PC you listed is low quality at all).
Thank you for the Non-Pro-Series SSD, theres no reason for me to own the Pro Series.

Overall i'll just say that im okay with the $620 price range (removing 30 cause id get the 840 non-Pro SSD). But as mentioned above, i've basically decided to wait until Haswell. I know most likely that means i will be playing more like $700..which is pricey. But it will be a PC i will keep just as long as my current high end gaming Rig (years).
Thank you very much for doing all that research and price comparing and putting in all that work. I truly appreciate it.